A New Low

4,483 Views | 35 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Yogi58
LudwigsFountain
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Been watching Cal basketball for over 50 years. I'm not the type of fan who lives and dies with the team's success so never got too upset with losing, particularly as I got older. That said, before tonight I've never felt complete indifference.

I go to the games with my son. He and his wife grabbed some Gordo's and came up to watch the game with us, but he got a call about the time the game started and had to go meet his partner about a work matter. I stayed with the game until things fell even further apart in the second half. Decided at that point I'd be better off asking my wife if she'd like to watch This is Us on demand, as at least someone would be scoring some points.

I'll still go to the games with my son, but about the only positive I can see is that we'll be able to sit wherever we want.
calbear80
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Big C
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calbear80 said:

LudwigsFountain said:

Been watching Cal basketball for over 50 years. I'm not the type of fan who lives and dies with the team's success so never got too upset with losing, particularly as I got older. That said, before tonight I've never felt complete indifference.

I go to the games with my son. He and his wife grabbed some Gordo's and came up to watch the game with us, but he got a call about the time the game started and had to go meet his partner about a work matter. I stayed with the game until things fell even further apart in the second half. Decided at that point I'd be better off asking my wife if she'd like to watch This is Us on demand, as at least someone would be scoring some points.

I'll still go to the games with my son, but about the only positive I can see is that we'll be able to sit wherever we want.


I almost have tears in my eyes and my heart aches with you.

When you go to the games, will you please yell once at the top of your voice once for me:

GO BEARS!

And, if you can, pull one of the players aside and whisper in his ear, "Cal fans LOVE you and do not blame you or other players"

Go Bears!




What, now you're rebranding yourself as Mr. HeartOfGold?
Yogi58
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Big C said:

calbear80 said:

LudwigsFountain said:

Been watching Cal basketball for over 50 years. I'm not the type of fan who lives and dies with the team's success so never got too upset with losing, particularly as I got older. That said, before tonight I've never felt complete indifference.

I go to the games with my son. He and his wife grabbed some Gordo's and came up to watch the game with us, but he got a call about the time the game started and had to go meet his partner about a work matter. I stayed with the game until things fell even further apart in the second half. Decided at that point I'd be better off asking my wife if she'd like to watch This is Us on demand, as at least someone would be scoring some points.

I'll still go to the games with my son, but about the only positive I can see is that we'll be able to sit wherever we want.
I almost have tears in my eyes and my heart aches with you.

When you go to the games, will you please yell once at the top of your voice once for me:

GO BEARS!

And, if you can, pull one of the players aside and whisper in his ear, "Cal fans LOVE you and do not blame you or other players"

Go Bears!
What, now you're rebranding yourself as Mr. HeartOfGold?
He's never branded himself as anti-player
KoreAmBear
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This feels like Ben (NIT v Ohio State) or Cuonzo's last games (NIT v Bakersfield) where indifference set in, and the wheels came off. Why do we have to wait until the end of the season? Maybe if Wilson takes over there is a spark like UCLA got. We're paying Wyking for losses. And Haas will be empty by February. Why not just let him go and try to win a few games?
calgo430
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i think you might be right. its not entertaining watching whats going on. mcneill has lost his confidence and we defend poorly. another blowout coming against the huskies. my seats will be empty for the remainder of the season.
BeachedBear
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I've been in the change will come at seasons end camp, but last night has me reconsidering my position.

I stopped watching with 10 or 12 minutes left in the game. Its not losing, its not the score, its the lack of focus/effort/energy.

I saw rebounds fall into Cal players hands and they dropped it. I saw Cal players tip the ball on defense, but not go after it. I saw Cal players look at an open team mate and NOT pass them the ball. This is looking WORSE than last season and it seems the Coach has lost this team.
MSaviolives
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BeachedBear said:

I've been in the change will come at seasons end camp, but last night has me reconsidering my position.

I stopped watching with 10 or 12 minutes left in the game. Its not losing, its not the score, its the lack of focus/effort/energy.

I saw rebounds fall into Cal players hands and they dropped it. I saw Cal players tip the ball on defense, but not go after it. I saw Cal players look at an open team mate and NOT pass them the ball. This is looking WORSE than last season and it seems the Coach has lost this team.
Yes. The persistent violation of the Rule of Holes is on display each game this season.
BeachedBear
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MSaviolives said:

BeachedBear said:

I've been in the change will come at seasons end camp, but last night has me reconsidering my position.

I stopped watching with 10 or 12 minutes left in the game. Its not losing, its not the score, its the lack of focus/effort/energy.

I saw rebounds fall into Cal players hands and they dropped it. I saw Cal players tip the ball on defense, but not go after it. I saw Cal players look at an open team mate and NOT pass them the ball. This is looking WORSE than last season and it seems the Coach has lost this team.
Yes. The persistent violation of the Rule of Holes is on display each game this season.
First time I've heard of this Rule of Holes. Very apropos. Thanks
TheFiatLux
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KoreAmBear said:

This feels like Ben (NIT v Ohio State) or Cuonzo's last games (NIT v Bakersfield) where indifference set in, and the wheels came off. Why do we have to wait until the end of the season? Maybe if Wilson takes over there is a spark like UCLA got. We're paying Wyking for losses. And Haas will be empty by February. Why not just let him go and try to win a few games?

Wow, without reading this i just posted this feels exactly like that Ben Braun end (except it was New Mexico at home in front of a shockingly empty Haas, we lost to Ohio State on the road).

I've never in my life been for firing a coach mid season, but i think this is it.
bearister
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Do you think there will be any tickets left for the home stand next week?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
wifeisafurd
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bearister said:

Do you think there will be any tickets left for the home stand next week?
$5 on stub hub.
cal93
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TheFiatLux said:

KoreAmBear said:

This feels like Ben (NIT v Ohio State) or Cuonzo's last games (NIT v Bakersfield) where indifference set in, and the wheels came off. Why do we have to wait until the end of the season? Maybe if Wilson takes over there is a spark like UCLA got. We're paying Wyking for losses. And Haas will be empty by February. Why not just let him go and try to win a few games?

Wow, without reading this i just posted this feels exactly like that Ben Braun end (except it was New Mexico at home in front of a shockingly empty Haas, we lost to Ohio State on the road).

I've never in my life been for firing a coach mid season, but i think this is it.
I think Ken's statement is HUGE. I remember when we fired Lou, he showed up at the next game with a sign that simply read "SHAME".

It is so bad, that I don't even bother to look to see if the game is on, nor do I check the score until Friday morning. I live in SoCal and have twin toddlers, so that's part of the reason.

But this situation with WJ is pretty bad. Whomever decided to give a 3rd assistant a 5 year, $1mm guaranteed deal ought to step up and write a check to cover the buyout.
rkt88edmo
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cal93 said:

TheFiatLux said:

KoreAmBear said:

This feels like Ben (NIT v Ohio State) or Cuonzo's last games (NIT v Bakersfield) where indifference set in, and the wheels came off. Why do we have to wait until the end of the season? Maybe if Wilson takes over there is a spark like UCLA got. We're paying Wyking for losses. And Haas will be empty by February. Why not just let him go and try to win a few games?

Wow, without reading this i just posted this feels exactly like that Ben Braun end (except it was New Mexico at home in front of a shockingly empty Haas, we lost to Ohio State on the road).

I've never in my life been for firing a coach mid season, but i think this is it.
I think Ken's statement is HUGE. I remember when we fired Lou, he showed up at the next game with a sign that simply read "SHAME".

It is so bad, that I don't even bother to look to see if the game is on, nor do I check the score until Friday morning. I live in SoCal and have twin toddlers, so that's part of the reason.

But this situation with WJ is pretty bad. Whomever decided to give a 3rd assistant a 5 year, $1mm guaranteed deal ought to step up and write a check to cover the buyout.


Agree - when you are taking a chance on inexperience you give them the step up without the guarantee. And they earn the guarantee by extending when they show what they can do. I can understand 2-3 years of guarantee to give him the first year mulligan, but 5 years? Either we have bad negotiators/decision makers or we really really really can't find anyone qualified and interested.
KoreAmBear
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TheFiatLux said:

KoreAmBear said:

This feels like Ben (NIT v Ohio State) or Cuonzo's last games (NIT v Bakersfield) where indifference set in, and the wheels came off. Why do we have to wait until the end of the season? Maybe if Wilson takes over there is a spark like UCLA got. We're paying Wyking for losses. And Haas will be empty by February. Why not just let him go and try to win a few games?

Wow, without reading this i just posted this feels exactly like that Ben Braun end (except it was New Mexico at home in front of a shockingly empty Haas, we lost to Ohio State on the road).

I've never in my life been for firing a coach mid season, but i think this is it.
Yes thanks for the correction. I did think it would have been odd for us to have an NIT home game v. tOSU, but I just went with it anyway lol. Yes, that New Mexico home game disaster when Alford was coach. I think someone also posted that he/she saw Ben's wife crying hysterically, perhaps from the news that Ben was getting canned.
FloriDreaming
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cal93 said:

TheFiatLux said:

KoreAmBear said:

This feels like Ben (NIT v Ohio State) or Cuonzo's last games (NIT v Bakersfield) where indifference set in, and the wheels came off. Why do we have to wait until the end of the season? Maybe if Wilson takes over there is a spark like UCLA got. We're paying Wyking for losses. And Haas will be empty by February. Why not just let him go and try to win a few games?

Wow, without reading this i just posted this feels exactly like that Ben Braun end (except it was New Mexico at home in front of a shockingly empty Haas, we lost to Ohio State on the road).

I've never in my life been for firing a coach mid season, but i think this is it.
I think Ken's statement is HUGE. I remember when we fired Lou, he showed up at the next game with a sign that simply read "SHAME".

It is so bad, that I don't even bother to look to see if the game is on, nor do I check the score until Friday morning. I live in SoCal and have twin toddlers, so that's part of the reason.

But this situation with WJ is pretty bad. Whomever decided to give a 3rd assistant a 5 year, $1mm guaranteed deal ought to step up and write a check to cover the buyout.
That would be entirely on Mike Williams. Unlike the Wilcox hire, this was his buddy-buddy hire he did without talking to anyone else. And yes he should pay for all of it.
Northside91
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Uthaithani said:

cal93 said:

TheFiatLux said:

KoreAmBear said:

This feels like Ben (NIT v Ohio State) or Cuonzo's last games (NIT v Bakersfield) where indifference set in, and the wheels came off. Why do we have to wait until the end of the season? Maybe if Wilson takes over there is a spark like UCLA got. We're paying Wyking for losses. And Haas will be empty by February. Why not just let him go and try to win a few games?

Wow, without reading this i just posted this feels exactly like that Ben Braun end (except it was New Mexico at home in front of a shockingly empty Haas, we lost to Ohio State on the road).

I've never in my life been for firing a coach mid season, but i think this is it.
I think Ken's statement is HUGE. I remember when we fired Lou, he showed up at the next game with a sign that simply read "SHAME".

It is so bad, that I don't even bother to look to see if the game is on, nor do I check the score until Friday morning. I live in SoCal and have twin toddlers, so that's part of the reason.

But this situation with WJ is pretty bad. Whomever decided to give a 3rd assistant a 5 year, $1mm guaranteed deal ought to step up and write a check to cover the buyout.
That would be entirely on Mike Williams. Unlike the Wilcox hire, this was his buddy-buddy hire he did without talking to anyone else. And yes he should pay for all of it.

Every AD is on a leash and has no authority to guarantee anyone a single dime. At Alabama (and Stanford, for that matter), a group of donors holds the leash, and at Cal the leash is held by a glassy-eyed PhD in sensible shoes. In any case, the AD can only make a recommendation and wait.

The responsibility here lies with the people controlling the money. Those people knew, without having to know a single thing about competitive basketball, that the current coach was 100% the wrong choice. He didn't have the requisite experience, and his career accomplishments are impressive to no one. They conceded to their ambivalence for the game, fear of their employee (the AD), the desire to make a statement having nothing to do with basketball, or some combination of the three. Don't blame the AD. He's just a flunky trying to facilitate a friend.
ncbears
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This is not to excuse Jones or to belittle the loss - but Braun's 2000 team lost by 51 to Montgomery's Stanfurd which I think still is the record (ok - it was a rebuilding year after basically the entire NIT champion team left and Cal finished with a winning record that year and went to NIT quarterfinals). Ouch. Can Jones set a new record?
Big C
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BeachedBear said:

I've been in the change will come at seasons end camp, but last night has me reconsidering my position.

I stopped watching with 10 or 12 minutes left in the game. Its not losing, its not the score, its the lack of focus/effort/energy.

I saw rebounds fall into Cal players hands and they dropped it. I saw Cal players tip the ball on defense, but not go after it. I saw Cal players look at an open team mate and NOT pass them the ball. This is looking WORSE than last season and it seems the Coach has lost this team.
I know you said you had observed bits of this as early as the exhibition game (well, a lack of intensity, at least). IMO, last night was the first time this year that I thought it went to a whole nother level. I mean, the all-around ineptness just got ramped way up.

For some bizarre reason (self-loathing?), I can't seem to stop watching. It's like a train wreck and it's my own train, to boot.
parentswerebears
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BeachedBear said:

I've been in the change will come at seasons end camp, but last night has me reconsidering my position.

This is looking WORSE than last season and it seems the Coach has lost this team.
This is exactly where I am
BBIGN
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Northside91 said:

Uthaithani said:

cal93 said:

TheFiatLux said:

KoreAmBear said:

This feels like Ben (NIT v Ohio State) or Cuonzo's last games (NIT v Bakersfield) where indifference set in, and the wheels came off. Why do we have to wait until the end of the season? Maybe if Wilson takes over there is a spark like UCLA got. We're paying Wyking for losses. And Haas will be empty by February. Why not just let him go and try to win a few games?

Wow, without reading this i just posted this feels exactly like that Ben Braun end (except it was New Mexico at home in front of a shockingly empty Haas, we lost to Ohio State on the road).

I've never in my life been for firing a coach mid season, but i think this is it.
I think Ken's statement is HUGE. I remember when we fired Lou, he showed up at the next game with a sign that simply read "SHAME".

It is so bad, that I don't even bother to look to see if the game is on, nor do I check the score until Friday morning. I live in SoCal and have twin toddlers, so that's part of the reason.

But this situation with WJ is pretty bad. Whomever decided to give a 3rd assistant a 5 year, $1mm guaranteed deal ought to step up and write a check to cover the buyout.
That would be entirely on Mike Williams. Unlike the Wilcox hire, this was his buddy-buddy hire he did without talking to anyone else. And yes he should pay for all of it.

"Every AD is on a leash and has no authority to guarantee anyone a single dime. At Alabama (and Stanford, for that matter), a group of donors holds the leash, and at Cal the leash is held by a glassy-eyed PhD in sensible shoes. In any case, the AD can only make a recommendation and wait.

The responsibility here lies with the people controlling the money. Those people knew, without having to know a single thing about competitive basketball, that the current coach was 100% the wrong choice. He didn't have the requisite experience, and his career accomplishments are impressive to no one. They conceded to their ambivalence for the game, fear of their employee (the AD), the desire to make a statement having nothing to do with basketball, or some combination of the three. Don't blame the AD. He's just a flunky trying to facilitate a friend."

This is so not true; Mike Williams convinced Dirks that this was the best and most prudent hire. This is totally on those two (especially Williams).
TheFiatLux
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BBIGN said:

Northside91 said:

Uthaithani said:

cal93 said:

TheFiatLux said:

KoreAmBear said:

This feels like Ben (NIT v Ohio State) or Cuonzo's last games (NIT v Bakersfield) where indifference set in, and the wheels came off. Why do we have to wait until the end of the season? Maybe if Wilson takes over there is a spark like UCLA got. We're paying Wyking for losses. And Haas will be empty by February. Why not just let him go and try to win a few games?

Wow, without reading this i just posted this feels exactly like that Ben Braun end (except it was New Mexico at home in front of a shockingly empty Haas, we lost to Ohio State on the road).

I've never in my life been for firing a coach mid season, but i think this is it.
I think Ken's statement is HUGE. I remember when we fired Lou, he showed up at the next game with a sign that simply read "SHAME".

It is so bad, that I don't even bother to look to see if the game is on, nor do I check the score until Friday morning. I live in SoCal and have twin toddlers, so that's part of the reason.

But this situation with WJ is pretty bad. Whomever decided to give a 3rd assistant a 5 year, $1mm guaranteed deal ought to step up and write a check to cover the buyout.
That would be entirely on Mike Williams. Unlike the Wilcox hire, this was his buddy-buddy hire he did without talking to anyone else. And yes he should pay for all of it.

"Every AD is on a leash and has no authority to guarantee anyone a single dime. At Alabama (and Stanford, for that matter), a group of donors holds the leash, and at Cal the leash is held by a glassy-eyed PhD in sensible shoes. In any case, the AD can only make a recommendation and wait.

The responsibility here lies with the people controlling the money. Those people knew, without having to know a single thing about competitive basketball, that the current coach was 100% the wrong choice. He didn't have the requisite experience, and his career accomplishments are impressive to no one. They conceded to their ambivalence for the game, fear of their employee (the AD), the desire to make a statement having nothing to do with basketball, or some combination of the three. Don't blame the AD. He's just a flunky trying to facilitate a friend."

This is so not true; Mike Williams convinced Dirks that this was the best and most prudent hire. This is totally on those two (especially Williams).


Dirks was an unmitigated disaster for the University. We used to complain about Ira Michael Heyman, but wow did Dirks do a shockingly incompetent job. I actually told him that in person, in basically those words. I told him I was appalled at how he threw student organizations under the bus, and his complete lack of leadership... You want to see a polite cocktail gather get tense, that'll do it! (this was after some of the ridiculous "free speech" debacles). Dirks wasn't just incompetent, he was worse, feckless. I am so glad we have this chancellor in to clean up the mess.
bearister
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Say what you will, but it takes more than a little swagger to pull off that look:

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
KenBurnski
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Dude looks like he was created using MS Paint
Yogi58
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KoreAmBear said:

Maybe if Wilson takes over there is a spark like UCLA got.
You mean like getting to play "Stanford and Cal" spark?

What exactly is it that you want the men's basketball team to accomplish with an interim coach?
parentswerebears
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I want the AD to show that basketball is something that the AD takes seriously. Or, just drop the program if Cal truly doesn't want to compete.
concordtom
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I thought Wyking was going to run an uptempo full court trapping 40 minutes of hell style?
I'm still waiting for that!
Yogi58
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parentswerebears said:

I want the AD to show that basketball is something that the AD takes seriously. Or, just drop the program if Cal truly doesn't want to compete.
And firing Wyking two months ahead of time will show that they take it seriously?
UrsaMajor
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Can't drop basketball unless we pull out of the P12
Alkiadt
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KenBurnski said:

Dude looks like he was created using MS Paint
Harry Potter Sr.
SFCityBear
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concordtom said:

I thought Wyking was going to run an uptempo full court trapping 40 minutes of hell style?
I'm still waiting for that!
That was last year, Tom.
SFCityBear
parentswerebears
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I know they can't. But that is where my frustration level with the state of the program.
KenBurnski
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All I know is that for the last game of the year, I hope the deep bench starts and plays big minutes. Hopefully such revolutionary action won't disrupt the "growth" of all our young talent.
bluehenbear
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concordtom said:

40 minutes of hell
Well, this he accomplished.
Northside91
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BBIGN said:

Northside91 said:

Uthaithani said:

cal93 said:

TheFiatLux said:

KoreAmBear said:

This feels like Ben (NIT v Ohio State) or Cuonzo's last games (NIT v Bakersfield) where indifference set in, and the wheels came off. Why do we have to wait until the end of the season? Maybe if Wilson takes over there is a spark like UCLA got. We're paying Wyking for losses. And Haas will be empty by February. Why not just let him go and try to win a few games?

Wow, without reading this i just posted this feels exactly like that Ben Braun end (except it was New Mexico at home in front of a shockingly empty Haas, we lost to Ohio State on the road).

I've never in my life been for firing a coach mid season, but i think this is it.
I think Ken's statement is HUGE. I remember when we fired Lou, he showed up at the next game with a sign that simply read "SHAME".

It is so bad, that I don't even bother to look to see if the game is on, nor do I check the score until Friday morning. I live in SoCal and have twin toddlers, so that's part of the reason.

But this situation with WJ is pretty bad. Whomever decided to give a 3rd assistant a 5 year, $1mm guaranteed deal ought to step up and write a check to cover the buyout.
That would be entirely on Mike Williams. Unlike the Wilcox hire, this was his buddy-buddy hire he did without talking to anyone else. And yes he should pay for all of it.

"Every AD is on a leash and has no authority to guarantee anyone a single dime. At Alabama (and Stanford, for that matter), a group of donors holds the leash, and at Cal the leash is held by a glassy-eyed PhD in sensible shoes. In any case, the AD can only make a recommendation and wait.

The responsibility here lies with the people controlling the money. Those people knew, without having to know a single thing about competitive basketball, that the current coach was 100% the wrong choice. He didn't have the requisite experience, and his career accomplishments are impressive to no one. They conceded to their ambivalence for the game, fear of their employee (the AD), the desire to make a statement having nothing to do with basketball, or some combination of the three. Don't blame the AD. He's just a flunky trying to facilitate a friend."

This is so not true; Mike Williams convinced Dirks that this was the best and most prudent hire. This is totally on those two (especially Williams).


How did Williams convince Dirks that the candidate's total lack of experience as a head coach and unimpressive work history were a non-issue? Did he do it with drugs or alcohol?
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