Frank and Theo

11,897 Views | 89 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Yogi58
Go!Bears
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Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Yogi58
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Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?
cal83dls79
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Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?
clearly a rhetorical question. As a dls guy I like the sentiment but not the idea, plus it's a huge risk and so it won't happen.
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
UrsaMajor
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Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?
I think it's because some folks have this assumption that only someone who is an Old Blue could possibly coach here. We saw some of the same thing when there was a search for a new AD. Some folks insisted that it had to be someone who graduated from Cal, regardless of qualifications or experience.
bearister
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cal83dls79 said:

Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?
clearly a rhetorical question. As a dls guy I like the sentiment but not the idea, plus it's a huge risk and so it won't happen.

I'm kinda thinking the train has pulled out of the station on Negative Reinforcement Coaching on Steroids Squared.
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SFCityBear
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bearister said:

cal83dls79 said:

Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?
clearly a rhetorical question. As a dls guy I like the sentiment but not the idea, plus it's a huge risk and so it won't happen.

I'm kinda thinking the train has pulled out of the station on Negative Reinforcement Coaching on Steroids Squared.
I'd trade either Theo or Frank for one four-year point guard as good as Frankie Ferrari.
SFCityBear
bearister
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SFCityBear said:

bearister said:

cal83dls79 said:

Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?
clearly a rhetorical question. As a dls guy I like the sentiment but not the idea, plus it's a huge risk and so it won't happen.

I'm kinda thinking the train has pulled out of the station on Negative Reinforcement Coaching on Steroids Squared.
I'd trade either Theo or Frank for one four-year point guard as good as Frankie Ferrari.


I keep waiting for someone to pick on that kid. They would never see the second punch of the combination coming.
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BearlyCareAnymore
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Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?


As I said before, tell me what we are willing to spend and I might consider figuring out who might be a good candidate. If our price point is the same as last time, this might be a legitimate option. It's not what I aspire to, but I'm assuming the OP is assuming that we are on a tight budget. For the same money I think it likely better than the last choice, not that that is the standard we want to go with
Go!Bears
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OaktownBear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?


As I said before, tell me what we are willing to spend and I might consider figuring out who might be a good candidate. If our price point is the same as last time, this might be a legitimate option. It's not what I aspire to, but I'm assuming the OP is assuming that we are on a tight budget. For the same money I think it likely better than the last choice, not that that is the standard we want to go with
That is kind of where I was coming from. I do not see us showing up in Utah (or wherever) with a Brinks truck and it is also true that I think an alum is our only real hope long term. Why do I have such low aspirations? What is it about the last 30 years of Cal basketball that makes anyone think we will hire, or could retain a 'rock star' coach? I believe we need to build a coach. Take someone not yet ready and invest in them. I think it needs to be an alum because I think only an alum might stick with us if they ever break through to the top tier. Theo is someone who might be worth that investment, but he needs help. Because of the relationship to Allocco who has proven he can teach, it seems like something that might work. I think the best we can hope for is a roll of the dice. Why not take a chance on Theo? He was astute enough to see early that Wyking was a bust.
SFCityBear
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Go!Bears said:

OaktownBear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?


As I said before, tell me what we are willing to spend and I might consider figuring out who might be a good candidate. If our price point is the same as last time, this might be a legitimate option. It's not what I aspire to, but I'm assuming the OP is assuming that we are on a tight budget. For the same money I think it likely better than the last choice, not that that is the standard we want to go with
That is kind of where I was coming from. I do not see us showing up in Utah (or wherever) with a Brinks truck and it is also true that I think an alum is our only real hope long term. Why do I have such low aspirations? What is it about the last 30 years of Cal basketball that makes anyone think we will hire, or could retain a 'rock star' coach? I believe we need to build a coach. Take someone not yet ready and invest in them. I think it needs to be an alum because I think only an alum might stick with us if they ever break through to the top tier. Theo is someone who might be worth that investment, but he needs help. Because of the relationship to Allocco who has proven he can teach, it seems like something that might work. I think the best we can hope for is a roll of the dice. Why not take a chance on Theo? He was astute enough to see early that Wyking was a bust.
You make good points. I feel your pain and frustration. But the biggest drawback to hiring a guy like Jones is that he had never been a head coach at any level from pee-wee to college. He had never been the guy fully responsible for a team's play. He had never had any experience trying his ideas, methods, strategies or tactics out to see if they worked. He had never been held accountable by players, press, or fans before, and Cal chose to throw him into the lions' den or into the fire. He agreed, and even if Cal retains him, he has dug himself a hole, as has Cal, which will be a few years digging out of for either party. No offense, but Theo (and Dennis Gates) has the same problem, lack of ever having been the head man anywhere. Maybe you can name some successful head coaches who had never been head coaches at any level. There must be some, but I can't think of any. Allocco has the high school chops, and would be less of a risk than Theo in my mind, in terms of having been the head guy at some level, but I'm not sure it translates to a jump to the next level, where the age and maturity of players is different. As I've said before, two of San Francisco's most successful high school coaches Herrerias and Ben Neff, failed as college head coaches. And nobody had a better basketball mind than Rene. The era in which he coached had some truly great challenges both in opponents and in a new culture, but his teams could have done better. Mike Montgomery was a darn good college coach. He was successful first and Montana, then at Stanford, and at Cal.. I felt the game was beginning to pass him by with all the rule changes, some designed to take away the things his Stanford teams did best, like defense, and a more structured offense. He failed to be successful in the NBA, in a culture of athletic stars, different rules and a faster shot clock. I would rather see us do a search for an experienced head coach. And put some focus on the parochial schools. Xavier, for example, is a training ground for head coaches, like Thad Matta, Sean Miller, and Chris Mack. Those priests and nuns know basketball, based on the success of small schools like USF, Villanova, Gonzaga, Chicago Loyola, Marquette, and many more. There may be more diamonds in the parochial rough somewhere.
SFCityBear
bearister
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"...and Cal chose to throw him into the lions' den or into the fire." And they also threw a big ole bag in after him containing $5,000,000.

Iconic Bay Area hoop coach Frank LaPorte left a successful career at O'Dowd and failed with the Gaels before returning to another successful HS career at St. Joes (with a pit stop in a failed women's professional league). Allocco was a great high school coach. College? NFW, unless he has had a personality transplant I didn't hear about. He makes Lou look like Mr. Rogers.
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Go!Bears
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bearister said:

"...and Cal chose to throw him into the lions' den or into the fire." And they also threw a big ole bag in after him containing $5,000,000.

Iconic Bay Area hoop coach Frank LaPorte left a successful career at O'Dowd and failed with the Gaels before returning to another successful HS career at St. Joes (with a pit stop in a failed women's professional league). Allocco was a great high school coach. College? NFW, unless he has had a personality transplant I didn't hear about. He makes Lou look like Mr. Rogers.
You may be right. I do not know his personality, just his results. Theo, on the other hand looks like he has a future. If he does, I am ok with suffering through some growing pains. It beats the pointless suffering we are currently experiencing.
UrsaMajor
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Go!Bears said:

OaktownBear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?


As I said before, tell me what we are willing to spend and I might consider figuring out who might be a good candidate. If our price point is the same as last time, this might be a legitimate option. It's not what I aspire to, but I'm assuming the OP is assuming that we are on a tight budget. For the same money I think it likely better than the last choice, not that that is the standard we want to go with
That is kind of where I was coming from. I do not see us showing up in Utah (or wherever) with a Brinks truck and it is also true that I think an alum is our only real hope long term. Why do I have such low aspirations? What is it about the last 30 years of Cal basketball that makes anyone think we will hire, or could retain a 'rock star' coach I believe we need to build a coach. Take someone not yet ready and invest in them. I think it needs to be an alum because I think only an alum might stick with us if they ever break through to the top tier. Theo is someone who might be worth that investment, but he needs help. Because of the relationship to Allocco who has proven he can teach, it seems like something that might work. I think the best we can hope for is a roll of the dice. Why not take a chance on Theo? He was astute enough to see early that Wyking was a bust.
Like Wyking Jones?
Yogi58
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Go!Bears said:

OaktownBear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?
As I said before, tell me what we are willing to spend and I might consider figuring out who might be a good candidate. If our price point is the same as last time, this might be a legitimate option. It's not what I aspire to, but I'm assuming the OP is assuming that we are on a tight budget. For the same money I think it likely better than the last choice, not that that is the standard we want to go with
That is kind of where I was coming from. I do not see us showing up in Utah (or wherever) with a Brinks truck and it is also true that I think an alum is our only real hope long term.
Why does it have to be an alum?
Quote:

Quote:

Why do I have such low aspirations? What is it about the last 30 years of Cal basketball that makes anyone think we will hire, or could retain a 'rock star' coach?

Terrific straw man. How about an experienced coach? We've hired plenty of experienced coaches - why do you want to repeat what we just did with Wyking?

Quote:

Quote:

I believe we need to build a coach. Take someone not yet ready and invest in them. I think it needs to be an alum because I think only an alum might stick with us if they ever break through to the top tier.

The only Cal basketball coach to leave for greener pastures in most of our lifetimes has been Cuonzo Martin. Are we going to let that one data point dictate the type of person we hire?

Truth is, a bunch of you just want to construct a reality that dictates that we hire Theo.
Big C
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Count me as not in that "bunch". Theo's got no HC experience, first of all. Second of all, his college coaching experience, in general, looks a little spotty, to say the least. Whatever went down when he was on staff last year, I have a hard time believing it was 0% his fault.
OneTopOneChickenApple
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SFCityBear said:

Go!Bears said:

OaktownBear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?


As I said before, tell me what we are willing to spend and I might consider figuring out who might be a good candidate. If our price point is the same as last time, this might be a legitimate option. It's not what I aspire to, but I'm assuming the OP is assuming that we are on a tight budget. For the same money I think it likely better than the last choice, not that that is the standard we want to go with
That is kind of where I was coming from. I do not see us showing up in Utah (or wherever) with a Brinks truck and it is also true that I think an alum is our only real hope long term. Why do I have such low aspirations? What is it about the last 30 years of Cal basketball that makes anyone think we will hire, or could retain a 'rock star' coach? I believe we need to build a coach. Take someone not yet ready and invest in them. I think it needs to be an alum because I think only an alum might stick with us if they ever break through to the top tier. Theo is someone who might be worth that investment, but he needs help. Because of the relationship to Allocco who has proven he can teach, it seems like something that might work. I think the best we can hope for is a roll of the dice. Why not take a chance on Theo? He was astute enough to see early that Wyking was a bust.
You make good points. I feel your pain and frustration. But the biggest drawback to hiring a guy like Jones is that he had never been a head coach at any level from pee-wee to college. He had never been the guy fully responsible for a team's play. He had never had any experience trying his ideas, methods, strategies or tactics out to see if they worked. He had never been held accountable by players, press, or fans before, and Cal chose to throw him into the lions' den or into the fire. He agreed, and even if Cal retains him, he has dug himself a hole, as has Cal, which will be a few years digging out of for either party. No offense, but Theo (and Dennis Gates) has the same problem, lack of ever having been the head man anywhere. Maybe you can name some successful head coaches who had never been head coaches at any level. There must be some, but I can't think of any. Allocco has the high school chops, and would be less of a risk than Theo in my mind, in terms of having been the head guy at some level, but I'm not sure it translates to a jump to the next level, where the age and maturity of players is different. As I've said before, two of San Francisco's most successful high school coaches Herrerias and Ben Neff, failed as college head coaches. And nobody had a better basketball mind than Rene. The era in which he coached had some truly great challenges both in opponents and in a new culture, but his teams could have done better. Mike Montgomery was a darn good college coach. He was successful first and Montana, then at Stanford, and at Cal.. I felt the game was beginning to pass him by with all the rule changes, some designed to take away the things his Stanford teams did best, like defense, and a more structured offense. He failed to be successful in the NBA, in a culture of athletic stars, different rules and a faster shot clock. I would rather see us do a search for an experienced head coach. And put some focus on the parochial schools. Xavier, for example, is a training ground for head coaches, like Thad Matta, Sean Miller, and Chris Mack. Those priests and nuns know basketball, based on the success of small schools like USF, Villanova, Gonzaga, Chicago Loyola, Marquette, and many more. There may be more diamonds in the parochial rough somewhere.
You make good points too, and not necessarily disagreeing, but here's a list off the top of my head of head coaches who started successfully without previous head coaching experience. I'm sure there are more. Just saying it's not impossible.

I was really hoping we hired Travis DeCuire when we had a chance.

You mentioned Chris Mack and Sean Miller - Xavier
Tom Izzo - Michigan State
Kevin Ollie - UConn (OK, he cheated)
Jim Boeheim - Syracuse
Gary Cunningham - UCLA
Bobby Knight - Army
Gregg Marshall - Winthrop

Greg Popovich - Spurs
Paul Westhead, Pat Riley - Lakers
Steve Kerr - Dubs
bearister
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Go!Bears
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Yogi Bear said:

Why do I have such low aspirations? What is it about the last 30 years of Cal basketball that makes anyone think we will hire, or could retain a 'rock star' coach?



Terrific straw man. How about an experienced coach? We've hired plenty of experienced coaches - why do you want to repeat what we just did with Wyking?

Thinking we can do what we have never done is reasonable? I notice you did not answer the question.

I don't actually have a strong opinion about Theo. I asked the question because a knowledgeable friend suggested it as a possibility and I knew other knowledgeable people here would have opinions I could learn from.

Besides Cuonzo, when have we had a coach someone wanted to lure away? My goal is to have a coach that good and then be able to keep him. Sadly, I think that is a stretch for us.
Yogi58
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Go!Bears said:

Yogi Bear said:

Why do I have such low aspirations? What is it about the last 30 years of Cal basketball that makes anyone think we will hire, or could retain a 'rock star' coach?



Terrific straw man. How about an experienced coach? We've hired plenty of experienced coaches - why do you want to repeat what we just did with Wyking?

Thinking we can do what we have never done is reasonable? I notice you did not answer the question.
I don't answer straw men. Trying to go back to it again is incredibly weak on your part.

Quote:

I don't actually have a strong opinion about Theo. I asked the question because a knowledgeable friend suggested it as a possibility and I knew other knowledgeable people here would have opinions I could learn from.
Anyone who thinks that is a good idea isn't knowledgeable. And I don't give a damn if he played high level basketball or not. Plenty of guys that I wouldn't want to make hiring decisions have played high level basketball.
Go!Bears
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Do you know what a straw man is?
ducky23
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Go!Bears said:

Do you know what a straw man is?


Let me give you some advice. Yogi is like trump. He picks a fight with everyone and you will never beat his "logic". I've learned to stop responding to him long ago.
socaliganbear
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This thread is a reminder of why the Wyking hire is allowed to happen. The AD knows that we will never demand better.
Go!Bears
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ducky23 said:

Go!Bears said:

Do you know what a straw man is?


Let me give you some advice. Yogi is like trump. He picks a fight with everyone and you will never beat his "logic". I've learned to stop responding to him long ago.
Good advice. Thanks
joe amos yaks
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Don't overlook Creighton and Dayton.
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
Go!Bears
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socaliganbear said:

This thread is a reminder of why the Wyking hire is allowed to happen. The AD knows that we will never demand better.
I think you are right, but this is where we are. The question is, since this is where we are, what is the best path forward. 20 people on an Internet board can demand better all day long but the Cal community is what it is. We are not UCLA, we are never going to be UCLA and we are not going to do what UCLA does. We need to find a path that works for us. How do we find our own Mark Few? A coach who can win here and yet will stay?
UrsaMajor
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Go!Bears said:

socaliganbear said:

This thread is a reminder of why the Wyking hire is allowed to happen. The AD knows that we will never demand better.
I think you are right, but this is where we are. The question is, since this is where we are, what is the best path forward. 20 people on an Internet board can demand better all day long but the Cal community is what it is. We are not UCLA, we are never going to be UCLA and we are not going to do what UCLA does. We need to find a path that works for us. How do we find our own Mark Few? A coach who can win here and yet will stay?
No choice but to trust the AD. He needs to have the judgment to pick a coach that can win and the ability to suss out whether he is likely to be committed long term. True story: when Kasser interviewed Steve Mariucci for head coach, he asked the typical questions: "where do you see yourself in 5 years?" Mooch answered: "coach of the Rose Bowl winning team" He then followed with: "where do you see yourself in 10 years?" answer: "coach of the Super Bowl winning team." For me, that would have disqualified Mooch, because he obviously saw Cal as a stepping stone to the NFL (of course, no one expected him to bolt after 1 year).
BeachedBear
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Since Knowlton relies on BI for his decision making, I'll offer up two solid pieces of advice for the next hire.

  • Don't use retention of a future class as a rationale for retaining a coach. Good players and bad coaching is not a recipe for success.
  • Don't worry about someone using Cal as a stepping stone to greener pastures. Even one good season is better than the last two.
socaliganbear
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Go!Bears said:

socaliganbear said:

This thread is a reminder of why the Wyking hire is allowed to happen. The AD knows that we will never demand better.
I think you are right, but this is where we are. The question is, since this is where we are, what is the best path forward. 20 people on an Internet board can demand better all day long but the Cal community is what it is. We are not UCLA, we are never going to be UCLA and we are not going to do what UCLA does. We need to find a path that works for us. How do we find our own Mark Few? A coach who can win here and yet will stay?


I don't agree that hiring a high school coach is were we're at tbh.
UrsaMajor
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BeachedBear said:

Since Knowlton relies on BI for his decision making, I'll offer up two solid pieces of advice for the next hire.

  • Don't use retention of a future class as a rationale for retaining a coach. Good players and bad coaching is not a recipe for success.
  • Don't worry about someone using Cal as a stepping stone to greener pastures. Even one good season is better than the last two.

You mean like Cuonzo's "one good season?" Where did that leave us.
SFCityBear
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socaliganbear said:

This thread is a reminder of why the Wyking hire is allowed to happen. The AD knows that we will never demand better.
The Wyking hire is allowed to happen because the AD knows he doesn't have to listen to or respect any demands we might make. All of us Cal fans want better, and wanted better when Wyking was hired, at least all the ones whose posts I read. Sure, some were non-committal, but I think most fans who know any basketball were preferring other candidates, and some who were not candidates. How many of you were in agreement with the decision to hire Jones at the time?
SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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joe amos yaks said:

Don't overlook Creighton and Dayton.
Absolutely. It is a long list. St. John's, St. Joseph, St Bonaventure, all have had some good players and teams.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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OneTopOneChickenApple said:

SFCityBear said:

Go!Bears said:

OaktownBear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?


As I said before, tell me what we are willing to spend and I might consider figuring out who might be a good candidate. If our price point is the same as last time, this might be a legitimate option. It's not what I aspire to, but I'm assuming the OP is assuming that we are on a tight budget. For the same money I think it likely better than the last choice, not that that is the standard we want to go with
That is kind of where I was coming from. I do not see us showing up in Utah (or wherever) with a Brinks truck and it is also true that I think an alum is our only real hope long term. Why do I have such low aspirations? What is it about the last 30 years of Cal basketball that makes anyone think we will hire, or could retain a 'rock star' coach? I believe we need to build a coach. Take someone not yet ready and invest in them. I think it needs to be an alum because I think only an alum might stick with us if they ever break through to the top tier. Theo is someone who might be worth that investment, but he needs help. Because of the relationship to Allocco who has proven he can teach, it seems like something that might work. I think the best we can hope for is a roll of the dice. Why not take a chance on Theo? He was astute enough to see early that Wyking was a bust.
You make good points. I feel your pain and frustration. But the biggest drawback to hiring a guy like Jones is that he had never been a head coach at any level from pee-wee to college. He had never been the guy fully responsible for a team's play. He had never had any experience trying his ideas, methods, strategies or tactics out to see if they worked. He had never been held accountable by players, press, or fans before, and Cal chose to throw him into the lions' den or into the fire. He agreed, and even if Cal retains him, he has dug himself a hole, as has Cal, which will be a few years digging out of for either party. No offense, but Theo (and Dennis Gates) has the same problem, lack of ever having been the head man anywhere. Maybe you can name some successful head coaches who had never been head coaches at any level. There must be some, but I can't think of any. Allocco has the high school chops, and would be less of a risk than Theo in my mind, in terms of having been the head guy at some level, but I'm not sure it translates to a jump to the next level, where the age and maturity of players is different. As I've said before, two of San Francisco's most successful high school coaches Herrerias and Ben Neff, failed as college head coaches. And nobody had a better basketball mind than Rene. The era in which he coached had some truly great challenges both in opponents and in a new culture, but his teams could have done better. Mike Montgomery was a darn good college coach. He was successful first and Montana, then at Stanford, and at Cal.. I felt the game was beginning to pass him by with all the rule changes, some designed to take away the things his Stanford teams did best, like defense, and a more structured offense. He failed to be successful in the NBA, in a culture of athletic stars, different rules and a faster shot clock. I would rather see us do a search for an experienced head coach. And put some focus on the parochial schools. Xavier, for example, is a training ground for head coaches, like Thad Matta, Sean Miller, and Chris Mack. Those priests and nuns know basketball, based on the success of small schools like USF, Villanova, Gonzaga, Chicago Loyola, Marquette, and many more. There may be more diamonds in the parochial rough somewhere.
You make good points too, and not necessarily disagreeing, but here's a list off the top of my head of head coaches who started successfully without previous head coaching experience. I'm sure there are more. Just saying it's not impossible.

I was really hoping we hired Travis DeCuire when we had a chance.

You mentioned Chris Mack and Sean Miller - Xavier
Tom Izzo - Michigan State
Kevin Ollie - UConn (OK, he cheated)
Jim Boeheim - Syracuse
Gary Cunningham - UCLA
Bobby Knight - Army
Gregg Marshall - Winthrop

Greg Popovich - Spurs
Paul Westhead, Pat Riley - Lakers
Steve Kerr - Dubs
This is a great list. Thanks for posting it. I will look into it, and it will probably cause me to revamp my thinking on the subject.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear
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Go!Bears said:

OaktownBear said:

Yogi Bear said:

Go!Bears said:

Or Theo and Frank. I have no idea if it is even something they would consider but it seems to me that a reunion of Theo Robertson and his old coach (an advisor now at USF) Frank Allocco could be exactly what our young team needs. It would be great for Theo to have strong mentor. Might be great for Frank to get back to what he has done so well (teach athletes how to play the game). Allocco has taken the role of Associate Head Coach before. It probably would not be terribly expensive and I think they would certainly know how to right the ship.
Why do people have such low aspirations for our basketball program?


As I said before, tell me what we are willing to spend and I might consider figuring out who might be a good candidate. If our price point is the same as last time, this might be a legitimate option. It's not what I aspire to, but I'm assuming the OP is assuming that we are on a tight budget. For the same money I think it likely better than the last choice, not that that is the standard we want to go with
That is kind of where I was coming from. I do not see us showing up in Utah (or wherever) with a Brinks truck and it is also true that I think an alum is our only real hope long term. Why do I have such low aspirations? What is it about the last 30 years of Cal basketball that makes anyone think we will hire, or could retain a 'rock star' coach? I believe we need to build a coach. Take someone not yet ready and invest in them. I think it needs to be an alum because I think only an alum might stick with us if they ever break through to the top tier. Theo is someone who might be worth that investment, but he needs help. Because of the relationship to Allocco who has proven he can teach, it seems like something that might work. I think the best we can hope for is a roll of the dice. Why not take a chance on Theo? He was astute enough to see early that Wyking was a bust.
Since you like alums for the job, here are a couple of names which I don't think have been mentioned yet: Shantay Legans and Richard Midgely. Legans is currently the head coach at Eastern Washington, and Midgely was a head coach in high school for a couple of years, and is now a scout for the Atlanta Hawks.

As for Theo, I don't know what his credentials are exactly, his previous responsibilities. Dennis Gates was a good individual defensive player, so he might know something of defense, and that, in my opinion, is Cal's greatest need, now and going forward, to develop a much stronger defense. That will require a defense-minded coach, who will pay attention to defense when recruiting, and who will recruit big men who have some instincts and fundamentals in that area, as rare as that may be. And he will have to be able to teach tough defense, not just the flavor-of-the-year zone defense, or the full court press for 40 minutes, but individual man defense fundamentals, on which all other defenses are based to some extent. A tough man defender is usually better in a zone than a player who has mostly been playing zone. Midgely was a tough defender as a player, Legans not so much.

Cal has tried an alum as head football coach with mixed results: Ray Willsey a backup QB, was an outstanding defensive coach, but not much of and offensive coach, and his teams played like it. Mike White was an end at Cal, and as a head coach, his offenses were well designed and effective. He put it all together in 1975, defense and offense. Joe Kapp was a player with more sheer drive and will to win than he was a strategist, and as Cal's head coach, his teams failed, except for one play we will always love him for (and of course, his playing days).

SFCityBear
joe amos yaks
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SFCityBear said:

joe amos yaks said:

Don't overlook Creighton and Dayton.
Absolutely. It is a long list. St. John's, St. Joseph, St Bonaventure, all have had some good players and teams.
Coach Phil Martelli at St Joe's where the Hawk always flies.
Then let's "explore" La Salle with Gola, Legler, Joe Bryant, and Foust.
And don't forget the Billikens of St Louie.
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
socaliganbear
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Surprised we haven't toyed around with giving Pribble a lifetime contract yet.
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