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I sure hope they don't close off recruiting. I agree with the concept, but this roster is still undermanned.

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I think we have enough 2019 freshies. I don't see much chance of getting a difference maker this late and I'd like to avoid future class imbalance. However I'd be thrilled to get a grad or upperclass transfer or two.

stu said:

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I sure hope they don't close off recruiting. I agree with the concept, but this roster is still undermanned.

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I think we have enough 2019 freshies. I don't see much chance of getting a difference maker this late and I'd like to avoid future class imbalance. However I'd be thrilled to get a grad or upperclass transfer or two.

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That works for me too.

SFCityBear said:

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bluesaxe said:

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4thGenCal said:

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BeachedBear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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BeachedBear said:

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OneTopOneChickenApple said:

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Well, we just lost two of our better players and were our bigger players on an undersized team.

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To clarify, we lost 3 of our 5 P12 caliber players (Sueing, McNeil & Vanover - leaving Bradley and Austin). The rest were not there yet last year. So, we went from a team with no depth (and still bottom of P12 level talent) to less than that.

Our Freshmen (Thorpe, Brown, Kuany) and last years bench (Gordon, Antecevich, JHD, Kelly) will definitely have opportunities. Honestly, that's WCC, MWC, Big West level talent

It will be interesting to see how this staff maximizes the talent that we have.

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This is exactly why I asked if the fans who wanted Jones fired had considered what things would look like if we fired him at the end of the season. I felt pretty sure, the weak roster would be further depleted. I had no solution at the time, but in hindsight it might have been better to fire Jones a few games into the conference season, and hire Fox at that time. Fox was not coaching and may have been available and willing to do that. And that way Fox would have had the rest of the conference games to work with the existing roster. Let's say he had the same improvement that Wyking Jones had - winning the last three games. The team would be on a little bit of a high, maybe looking forward to next season. Maybe some players would have left, or maybe not. And in the present recruiting period, Fox and his coaches could have pointed to the improvement as a positive, and that they were responsible for it. The little 3 game bump that Cal got at the end of the season was wasted, in terms of attracting players and fans. As I said it is hindsight, which is easy to do, and never a predictor. And the AD would have had to be much farther into his coach search than he probably was by the start of the PAC12 season.

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I'm one who advocated for Jones replacement at the end of the season. And although Fox may not be the ideal replacement, I am happy that we are moving ahead as a program. The roster fallout is about as expected with the new transfer portal rules and free agency. It's like taking off a band-aid. Better to just do it and move ahead. There are too many IFS to consider is hiring FOX earlier was even possible/available. But if I discount all of that and we somehow knew he would be the coach, then sure - why not start process earlier. But in reality . . .

I have a strong sense that retaining Jones would have had the same roster turnover as replacing him, so that option is not worth re-hashing. As for replacing a coach mid-season, there are many other factors that make that unpalatable absent some ethical actions such as criminal activity, personal abuse or other issue not related to the game. First and foremost - it sends a clear message about the type of support the coach can expect from the administration. Just look at UCLA, they were turned down by many coaches - and they're UCLA!!!

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True that retaining WJ would have resulted in three transfers, however Vanover would have stayed per his strong relationship with the head coach - not an opinion, just the way he stated it. However Dyson would have most likely left. Sueling and McNeil were definitely gone. Team is in a definite hole and needs to pick up minimum 2 more solid players to have a shot at 6-8 conference wins.

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I hope they close off recruiting for 2019, take whatever lumps that entails, and focus on the future. This coming season the goal ought to be to develop the players we have (some of whom have real potential), work like hell on recruiting players who fit the program's goals, and just build up a base from there. This is a program that needs continuity and eventuality to be led by upperclassmen. It's a slow and, to some, boring approach but it needs to happen.

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I sure hope they don't close off recruiting. I agree with the concept, but this roster is still undermanned. This is, on paper, a weaker roster and more undermanned than last season. We have only one player with proven talent, capable of playing well in the PAC12. and that is Bradley. We have only 10 on scholarships, but two of those are coming off serious injuries, Thorpe and Gordon, and we have no idea whether they can give us very much. JHD has had two injury plagued seasons, and we have no idea what we will get from him. We have only two other players who have much experience, Kelly and Austin, who aren't good enough to start for other PAC12 teams, but at least won't embarrass us. We have no small forwards or centers with experience. The only backup big for Kelly and Thorpe is Anticevich. I could be wrong, but I think Kuany is a forward who likes to play and create from the perimeter. Of the 10 players we have, four are high school recruits.

I for one am tired of watching incomplete rosters loaded with inexperienced players trying to win games. If you shut down recruiting now, are you saying if you heard of an available player, especially a big, that you would not even take a look at him? I agree in principle with what you said about developing players from a base, and have upperclassmen eventually leading a team. But it is not good to abandon the usual recruiting and subject the team to losing a ton of games, like last season. You don't want to subject the players to thinking like losers, like last season, believing that no matter how hard they play, they are still going to lose. Better to win a few more games than last season, and build on that, then give up and have another year like those under Jones. Have some more faith in Fox. He's been around, and I doubt he will waste a schollie on another Winston or McCullogh. Based on who he has landed so far, I think he can evaluate better than the rookie coach Jones.

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Mostly I'm saying that I doubt the available 2019 players at this late date are good enough to add. The usual recruiting would generally be players you've been working on for a year or two and wouldn't all be done after most of the solid recruits are already signed or committed. My skepticism is that you could find anyone who can help right now, which is what you'd need to fit your ideal. We have a class of four already so class balance issues come into play as well.

That said, it looks like we're in the running for a grad transfer, a good wing with experience, and that would be perfect. Steps in and plays, can provide some leadership, and won't tie up a 2020 scholarship.

bluesaxe said:

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SFCityBear said:

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bluesaxe said:

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4thGenCal said:

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BeachedBear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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BeachedBear said:

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OneTopOneChickenApple said:

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Well, we just lost two of our better players and were our bigger players on an undersized team.

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To clarify, we lost 3 of our 5 P12 caliber players (Sueing, McNeil & Vanover - leaving Bradley and Austin). The rest were not there yet last year. So, we went from a team with no depth (and still bottom of P12 level talent) to less than that.

Our Freshmen (Thorpe, Brown, Kuany) and last years bench (Gordon, Antecevich, JHD, Kelly) will definitely have opportunities. Honestly, that's WCC, MWC, Big West level talent

It will be interesting to see how this staff maximizes the talent that we have.

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This is exactly why I asked if the fans who wanted Jones fired had considered what things would look like if we fired him at the end of the season. I felt pretty sure, the weak roster would be further depleted. I had no solution at the time, but in hindsight it might have been better to fire Jones a few games into the conference season, and hire Fox at that time. Fox was not coaching and may have been available and willing to do that. And that way Fox would have had the rest of the conference games to work with the existing roster. Let's say he had the same improvement that Wyking Jones had - winning the last three games. The team would be on a little bit of a high, maybe looking forward to next season. Maybe some players would have left, or maybe not. And in the present recruiting period, Fox and his coaches could have pointed to the improvement as a positive, and that they were responsible for it. The little 3 game bump that Cal got at the end of the season was wasted, in terms of attracting players and fans. As I said it is hindsight, which is easy to do, and never a predictor. And the AD would have had to be much farther into his coach search than he probably was by the start of the PAC12 season.

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I'm one who advocated for Jones replacement at the end of the season. And although Fox may not be the ideal replacement, I am happy that we are moving ahead as a program. The roster fallout is about as expected with the new transfer portal rules and free agency. It's like taking off a band-aid. Better to just do it and move ahead. There are too many IFS to consider is hiring FOX earlier was even possible/available. But if I discount all of that and we somehow knew he would be the coach, then sure - why not start process earlier. But in reality . . .

I have a strong sense that retaining Jones would have had the same roster turnover as replacing him, so that option is not worth re-hashing. As for replacing a coach mid-season, there are many other factors that make that unpalatable absent some ethical actions such as criminal activity, personal abuse or other issue not related to the game. First and foremost - it sends a clear message about the type of support the coach can expect from the administration. Just look at UCLA, they were turned down by many coaches - and they're UCLA!!!

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True that retaining WJ would have resulted in three transfers, however Vanover would have stayed per his strong relationship with the head coach - not an opinion, just the way he stated it. However Dyson would have most likely left. Sueling and McNeil were definitely gone. Team is in a definite hole and needs to pick up minimum 2 more solid players to have a shot at 6-8 conference wins.

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I hope they close off recruiting for 2019, take whatever lumps that entails, and focus on the future. This coming season the goal ought to be to develop the players we have (some of whom have real potential), work like hell on recruiting players who fit the program's goals, and just build up a base from there. This is a program that needs continuity and eventuality to be led by upperclassmen. It's a slow and, to some, boring approach but it needs to happen.

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I sure hope they don't close off recruiting. I agree with the concept, but this roster is still undermanned. This is, on paper, a weaker roster and more undermanned than last season. We have only one player with proven talent, capable of playing well in the PAC12. and that is Bradley. We have only 10 on scholarships, but two of those are coming off serious injuries, Thorpe and Gordon, and we have no idea whether they can give us very much. JHD has had two injury plagued seasons, and we have no idea what we will get from him. We have only two other players who have much experience, Kelly and Austin, who aren't good enough to start for other PAC12 teams, but at least won't embarrass us. We have no small forwards or centers with experience. The only backup big for Kelly and Thorpe is Anticevich. I could be wrong, but I think Kuany is a forward who likes to play and create from the perimeter. Of the 10 players we have, four are high school recruits.

I for one am tired of watching incomplete rosters loaded with inexperienced players trying to win games. If you shut down recruiting now, are you saying if you heard of an available player, especially a big, that you would not even take a look at him? I agree in principle with what you said about developing players from a base, and have upperclassmen eventually leading a team. But it is not good to abandon the usual recruiting and subject the team to losing a ton of games, like last season. You don't want to subject the players to thinking like losers, like last season, believing that no matter how hard they play, they are still going to lose. Better to win a few more games than last season, and build on that, then give up and have another year like those under Jones. Have some more faith in Fox. He's been around, and I doubt he will waste a schollie on another Winston or McCullogh. Based on who he has landed so far, I think he can evaluate better than the rookie coach Jones.

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Mostly I'm saying that I doubt the available 2019 players at this late date are good enough to add. The usual recruiting would generally be players you've been working on for a year or two and wouldn't all be done after most of the solid recruits are already signed or committed. My skepticism is that you could find anyone who can help right now, which is what you'd need to fit your ideal. We have a class of four already so class balance issues come into play as well.

That said, it looks like we're in the running for a grad transfer, a good wing with experience, and that would be perfect. Steps in and plays, can provide some leadership, and won't tie up a 2020 scholarship.

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I agree with what you say, and I understand your skepticism. We are close to having class balance issues, so that is a good point as well. I still think we are weak up front. We have only one shooter, without having seen Kuany or Demetrios. However, if it were my choice, and a decent big man came along, highschooler or transfer of some kind, I'd take him, because you can't score if you don't have the ball, and rebounds get you the ball. I don't worry as much about shooting, because if we don't get another shooter, some coaches could devise plays where we get shooters open closer to the basket, maybe even get some layups, which are hard to miss. I'm just hoping Fox and staff can do this. The roster is not great and not deep, so holding scholarships for the future is a risk in itself, and may mean another last place finish. Taking flyers on unranked or lowly ranked players is another risk. Tough call.

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However, if it were my choice, and a decent big man came along, highschooler or transfer of some kind, I'd take him, because you can't score if you don't have the ball, and rebounds get you the ball.

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The way I see it in today's game you need to be able to shoot threes, defend threes, and pass to open shooters. For that reason adding a perimeter player would be my first priority. Another consideration is we already have 4 bigs, 2 of them freshies. Of course I'd take a difference-maker big, but I think the chances of landing one at this time are small.

Also if it comes down to a choice of watching a team of plodding bigs or a team of speedy guards I'd much rather watch the latter.

stu said:

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Quote:

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However, if it were my choice, and a decent big man came along, highschooler or transfer of some kind, I'd take him, because you can't score if you don't have the ball, and rebounds get you the ball.

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The way I see it in today's game you need to be able to shoot threes, defend threes, and pass to open shooters. For that reason adding a perimeter player would be my first priority. Another consideration is we already have 4 bigs, 2 of them freshies. Of course I'd take a difference-maker big, but I think the chances of landing one at this time are small.

Also if it comes down to a choice of watching a team of plodding bigs or a team of speedy guards I'd much rather watch the latter.

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If we don't get rebounds we will be watching the speedy guards mostly play defense and try to get those rebounds. The returning bigs, Kelly and Anticevich together got a total of less than 5 rebounds per game. I guess I'm thinking Kuany will be more of a small forward. So I see three bigs, two who don't rebound and one we haven't seen play yet. We also need someone to step up and defend the rim and the post. I'm hoping it is Thorpe. Call me a little worried.

I agree there only a slim chance of getting big who might be an upgrade, but some thought Fox would not get much of anything, and what he got looks promising.

SFCityBear said:

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If we don't get rebounds we will be watching the speedy guards mostly play defense and try to get those rebounds.

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I like guards who can rebound. Wallace had that ability, as did Boyd and Green on our women's team. And plenty of opposing guards have killed us on the boards. On this team Bradley and Harris-Dyson have the tools and Klonaras has had some success in that department. If Fox makes rebounding a priority I think our guards could be a plus in that department.

We are one rebounder/interior defender and one shooter away from doubling our last season's conference win total.

stu said:

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SFCityBear said:

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If we don't get rebounds we will be watching the speedy guards mostly play defense and try to get those rebounds.

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I like guards who can rebound. Wallace had that ability, as did Boyd and Green on our women's team. And plenty of opposing guards have killed us on the boards. On this team Bradley and Harris-Dyson have the tools and Klonaras has had some success in that department. If Fox makes rebounding a priority I think our guards could be a plus in that department.

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Sounds good to me. I hope JHD has learned to shoot a little better though, if he wants more minutes.

WSU just added Dennis Rodman Jr, remains to be seen if he is better than Dr. J's son

SFCityBear said:

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stu said:

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I sure hope they don't close off recruiting. I agree with the concept, but this roster is still undermanned.

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I think we have enough 2019 freshies. I don't see much chance of getting a difference maker this late and I'd like to avoid future class imbalance. However I'd be thrilled to get a grad or upperclass transfer or two.

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That works for me too.

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something is wrong here. You replied in 5 words. I need a judges opinion or can we go to replay? Was it 5 or 762?

cal83dls79 said:

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SFCityBear said:

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stu said:

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Quote:

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I sure hope they don't close off recruiting. I agree with the concept, but this roster is still undermanned.

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I think we have enough 2019 freshies. I don't see much chance of getting a difference maker this late and I'd like to avoid future class imbalance. However I'd be thrilled to get a grad or upperclass transfer or two.

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That works for me too.

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something is wrong here. You replied in 5 words. I need a judges opinion or can we go to replay? Was it 5 or 762?

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Better send someone to his house....

cal83dls79 said:

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SFCityBear said:

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stu said:

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Quote:

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I sure hope they don't close off recruiting. I agree with the concept, but this roster is still undermanned.

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I think we have enough 2019 freshies. I don't see much chance of getting a difference maker this late and I'd like to avoid future class imbalance. However I'd be thrilled to get a grad or upperclass transfer or two.

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That works for me too.

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something is wrong here. You replied in 5 words. I need a judges opinion or can we go to replay? Was it 5 or 762?

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I guess you have missed all my one word and two word replies. Not to mention all the many stars I give out for the posts agree with.

bearmanpg said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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SFCityBear said:

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stu said:

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Quote:

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I sure hope they don't close off recruiting. I agree with the concept, but this roster is still undermanned.

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I think we have enough 2019 freshies. I don't see much chance of getting a difference maker this late and I'd like to avoid future class imbalance. However I'd be thrilled to get a grad or upperclass transfer or two.

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That works for me too.

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something is wrong here. You replied in 5 words. I need a judges opinion or can we go to replay? Was it 5 or 762?

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Better send someone to his house....

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Someone already came to my house. A nice lady looking for a parking space, drove a Prius into my driveway the other day, lost control of her car, (she says) and it slammed into my car, and into a post that holds up my carport roof. She hit my car so hard, that it slammed into my house and the plumbing for my irrigation system. Damages to car and house: $7K so far, plus at least 2 weeks of a rental car. It could have been worse. Still negotiating with the lady's insurance adjusters who are all in Kansas City.

And I do take time off occasionally. Had lunch yesterday with a Bear Insider and several other very knowledgeable basketball fans and one non-jock to make sure all the stories we told were legit.

SFCityBear said:

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bearmanpg said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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SFCityBear said:

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stu said:

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something is wrong here. You replied in 5 words. I need a judges opinion or can we go to replay? Was it 5 or 762?

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Better send someone to his house....

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Someone already came to my house. A nice lady looking for a parking space, drove a Prius into my driveway the other day, lost control of her car, (she says) and it slammed into my car, and into a post that holds up my carport roof. She hit my car so hard, that it slammed into my house and the plumbing for my irrigation system. Damages to car and house: $7K so far, plus at least 2 weeks of a rental car. It could have been worse. Still negotiating with the lady's insurance adjusters who are all in Kansas City.

And I do take time off occasionally. Had lunch yesterday with a Bear Insider and several other very knowledgeable basketball fans and one non-jock to make sure all the stories we told were legit.

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A car port in San Francisco? I don't think I ever saw one, at least out in the Sunset where I grew up.

sp4149 said:

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SFCityBear said:

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bearmanpg said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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SFCityBear said:

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stu said:

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something is wrong here. You replied in 5 words. I need a judges opinion or can we go to replay? Was it 5 or 762?

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Better send someone to his house....

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Someone already came to my house. A nice lady looking for a parking space, drove a Prius into my driveway the other day, lost control of her car, (she says) and it slammed into my car, and into a post that holds up my carport roof. She hit my car so hard, that it slammed into my house and the plumbing for my irrigation system. Damages to car and house: $7K so far, plus at least 2 weeks of a rental car. It could have been worse. Still negotiating with the lady's insurance adjusters who are all in Kansas City.

And I do take time off occasionally. Had lunch yesterday with a Bear Insider and several other very knowledgeable basketball fans and one non-jock to make sure all the stories we told were legit.

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A car port in San Francisco? I don't think I ever saw one, at least out in the Sunset where I grew up.

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There are some, up in the hills mostly. When the fog rolls in at night, I might as well have parked at the sidewalk for all the protection my car gets. But if I had a garage, that Prius would have hit my house directly and caused a lot more damage. I'm under attack all the time, it seems, and none of it from criminals.

SFCityBear said:

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bearmanpg said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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SFCityBear said:

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stu said:

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Quote:

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I sure hope they don't close off recruiting. I agree with the concept, but this roster is still undermanned.

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I think we have enough 2019 freshies. I don't see much chance of getting a difference maker this late and I'd like to avoid future class imbalance. However I'd be thrilled to get a grad or upperclass transfer or two.

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That works for me too.

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something is wrong here. You replied in 5 words. I need a judges opinion or can we go to replay? Was it 5 or 762?

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Better send someone to his house....

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Someone already came to my house. A nice lady looking for a parking space, drove a Prius into my driveway the other day, lost control of her car, (she says) and it slammed into my car, and into a post that holds up my carport roof. She hit my car so hard, that it slammed into my house and the plumbing for my irrigation system. Damages to car and house: $7K so far, plus at least 2 weeks of a rental car. It could have been worse. Still negotiating with the lady's insurance adjusters who are all in Kansas City.

And I do take time off occasionally. Had lunch yesterday with a Bear Insider and several other very knowledgeable basketball fans and one non-jock to make sure all the stories we told were legit.

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Got an idea....send the insurance folks in KC a letter about the "59 Bears and Coach Newell....I bet they settle with you in no time so they won't take a chance on getting another letter....Try it....might work....

Turn out the lights. The party's over. Vanover is gone. Wondering why this thread is not.

If you all are still enamored by Vanover then maybe this is useful information.

Woo pig sooie is a University of Arkansas cheer used at Razorback sporting events to pump up the players. Also know as the hog call, this Razorback chant is a tradition at the University of Arkansas that dates back to the 1920s.Apr 15, 2019

Sounds like a plan...

bearmanpg said:

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SFCityBear said:

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bearmanpg said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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SFCityBear said:

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stu said:

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Quote:

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I sure hope they don't close off recruiting. I agree with the concept, but this roster is still undermanned.

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I think we have enough 2019 freshies. I don't see much chance of getting a difference maker this late and I'd like to avoid future class imbalance. However I'd be thrilled to get a grad or upperclass transfer or two.

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That works for me too.

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something is wrong here. You replied in 5 words. I need a judges opinion or can we go to replay? Was it 5 or 762?

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Better send someone to his house....

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Someone already came to my house. A nice lady looking for a parking space, drove a Prius into my driveway the other day, lost control of her car, (she says) and it slammed into my car, and into a post that holds up my carport roof. She hit my car so hard, that it slammed into my house and the plumbing for my irrigation system. Damages to car and house: $7K so far, plus at least 2 weeks of a rental car. It could have been worse. Still negotiating with the lady's insurance adjusters who are all in Kansas City.

And I do take time off occasionally. Had lunch yesterday with a Bear Insider and several other very knowledgeable basketball fans and one non-jock to make sure all the stories we told were legit.

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Got an idea....send the insurance folks in KC a letter about the "59 Bears and Coach Newell....I bet they settle with you in no time so they won't take a chance on getting another letter....Try it....might work....

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Why don't you just put me on ignore, so you don't get tempted to read anything I write, which might put a damper on your day. I do write a lot, because I find it necessary in order to try and convince stubborn fans who worship at the altar of modern basketball, that the fabulous athletes of today might be even better basketball players if they learned even a few of the basketball fundamentals of Newell's day, and that the game would be better if a few of the rules put in place now to give offensive players a big advantage would instead be sent to the trash basket, and some readers, like yourself, refuse to consider this, and add anything constructive to the conversation, and are satisfied to reply with hyperbole and ridicule. I know I can't convince you to read anything about when Cal was great and why, and I can't convince you to put me on ignore, so I will solve this by putting you on ignore. Back in Newell's day, we used to say, "See you later, alligator."

Or maybe not.

A naturally gifted athlete with fundamentals would lay waste to the landscape. Heck, the only reason the soft Euros can play in the NBA is because of sound fundamentals.

Big C said:

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We are one rebounder/interior defender and one shooter away from doubling our last season's conference win total.

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So we're only 40% short of our minimum starting rotation requirements to win 6 conference games next year. That feels good.

I'm going to rank Vsnover's multiple hair styles exhibited in his brief Cal stint.

No style, average man look:



Cali surfer boy look:



Going Berkeley hippie, lettin' it grow out. This is kinda like saying, "I don't care, wanna go to people's park?"


These next two are the same style, but check out the little rear flaps of this first one.
This style is a recognition that "hey, wait, I'm a skinny white guy in a black man's sport. I gotten toughen up, dammit. Get me some cred."


Unfortunately, this is an absolutely horrid look.



Thank goodness he has abandoned the semi cornrows! But here, he's going for that 70's feather look, a la John Travolta. Just keep it growing out.



Next look prediction: he'll sport a headband to keep the ever longer mane tucked in.

Looks like I spoke too soon, he's already donned the headband.

Here are some monster dunk shots, since it appears folks can't get enough

So long, fair knight.

I think Boban should recruit Vanover to be his junior protege, both on the court and in films.





Long lost brothers.
Get in the weight room, Connor, and the sky is the limit.


Keanu would stand no chance facing two of these guys:

concordtom said:

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So long, fair knight.

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this photo alone should have been cause for pause

2 questions:

1) how did that photo make its way to the internet?
2) is he just hangin out? Or is that a "come hither" look?

bearister said:

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A naturally gifted athlete with fundamentals would lay waste to the landscape. Heck, the only reason the soft Euros can play in the NBA is because of sound fundamentals.

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Russell asked Wilt how many points he could average in today's NBA, and Wilt answered, "Oh I don't know, 75 maybe" He said, "The game today would be perfectly suited for me. I mean leave me free to score with no one allowed to lay a hand on me? You must be kidding."

PS: In the 10 games or so leading up to Wilt's 100 point game, Wilt averaged about 75 points.

SFCityBear said:

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bearister said:

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A naturally gifted athlete with fundamentals would lay waste to the landscape. Heck, the only reason the soft Euros can play in the NBA is because of sound fundamentals.

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Russell asked Wilt how many points he could average in today's NBA, and Wilt answered, "Oh I don't know, 75 maybe" He said, "The game today would be perfectly suited for me. I mean leave me free to score with no one allowed to lay a hand on me? You must be kidding."

PS: In the 10 games or so leading up to Wilt's 100 point game, Wilt averaged about 75 points.

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Wilt is (just a wee little) prone to exaggeration.
Give me a break. I've watched those old videos. Today is gentler than the 90's with Ewing and Oakley, Laimbeer and Malone, which is closer to when Wilt would have given the quote
No way would Wilt average even 30 in today's game.
Every team has about 3 seven footers, and Wilt can't shoot FT's any better than Hack a Shaq

Wilt in his prime would for-sure average 30 in today's NBA, unless it was a year in which he wanted to lead the league in assists. Would also love to see Pete Maravich go for 35 ppg and 10 apg, as it would be more fun than watching Harden put up similar numbers.

are we really somehow relating vanover, to talented euros to wilt chamberlain?

no, thread is meandering

Big C said:

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no, thread is meandering

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thanks, I lost track.

I'll just jump the gun here and talk about next year's season:
- wow, these kids never gave up
- boy, so proud of our kids
- love the kids that stayed
- proud to be a bear
Just watch.