dbush518 said:

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The Bears have decided on Lindsay Graham's replacement and are expected to announce it at noon today. Look for the Bear Insider story shortly thereafter.

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Graham? I thought we were trying to keep politics to the OT board?!? ;-)

p.s. Heard on the Twitterverse that former Cal assistant Charmin Smith is returning from the WNBA to helm our women's squad.

Should've waited a minute before posting, as it's now official:

1) Smith has now jumped ship at least 3 times..she left Tara at Stanford to become an assistant at Cal ( never explained)
2) She left Cal to get that coveted WNBA gig.
3) She has now accepted the HC gig at Cal.
4) She does fill some obvious PC boxes, but, at this point, color me underwhelmed.
5) Was she the lead recruiter when LG was landing those talented players??
6) If thge answer is yes, she fulfills 33% of the requirements. Another 33% is coaching ability. Another 33% is character.
7) I heard her at the Alumni Center years ago , and, her main message was that when she was at Stanford, she and the players always got a good laugh when discussing all things Cal...
8) I will await the coming comments from professionals in thge trade.( They carry thge most weight)

read ALL the comments on the Cal Women BB site and you will be educated . i.e. LG developed "wanderlust" a long time ago: Of all the top tier candidates listed by Wayne, who is terrifically educated in this area, Smith was not even mentioned as a possible candidate . Supposedly, JK wanted to settle on a HC but eventually settled on Smith. Wayne also said, that, because we are talking about Cal, male candidates ( of any stripe) cannot be considered. He also said that Smith has never evinced any interest at all in becoming a HC. He said that Smith knew that LG was going to leave sooner rather than later, and, rather than staying and lobbying for the HC gig, left Cal to go to the WNBA> All in all, on the surface, not a very impressive hire. He also said that the timing of LG's departure couldn't have been worse. Not only did she jump ship but she jumped when nobody was wearing life jackets. JK was dealt a very poor hand. Nevertheless, this is a D+ grade which has the chance of becoming a C in the future. BTW, one source said that " 5* white girls did not want to play for LG. Interesting if true. He did not elaborate. Another source said that he lived next door to Smith for many years and that "she was painfully shy." There are good uses for shyness, but, I'm not sure shyness and being a HC belong in the same sentence. That said, of course, I wish her well. Good thing I am not emotionally invested in the success of her program. Being emotionally invested in the success of Mr. Fox is more than enough.

helltopay1 said:

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read ALL the comments on the Cal Women BB site and you will be educated . i.e. LG developed "wanderlust" a long time ago: Of all the top tier candidates listed by Wayne, who is terrifically educated in this area, Smith was not even mentioned as a possible candidate . Supposedly, JK wanted to settle on a HC but eventually settled on Smith. Wayne also said, that, because we are talking about Cal, male candidates ( of any stripe) cannot be considered. He also said that Smith has never evinced any interest at all in becoming a HC. He said that Smith knew that LG was going to leave sooner rather than later, and, rather than staying and lobbying for the HC gig, left Cal to go to the WNBA> All in all, on the surface, not a very impressive hire. He also said that the timing of LG's departure couldn't have been worse. Not only did she jump ship but she jumped when nobody was wearing life jackets. JK was dealt a very poor hand. Nevertheless, this is a D+ grade which has the chance of becoming a C in the future. BTW, one source said that " 5* white girls did not want to play for LG. Interesting if true. He did not elaborate. Another source said that he lived next door to Smith for many years and that "she was painfully shy." There are good uses for shyness, but, I'm not sure shyness and being a HC belong in the same sentence. That said, of course, I wish her well. Good thing I am not emotionally invested in the success of her program. Being emotionally invested in the success of Mr. Fox is more than enough.

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The only reason Smith wasnt mentioned as a top candidate is because the poster assumed she wasnt interested. full stop. most on the womens bball board are ecstatic about the hire.

really??

helltopay1 said:

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really??

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ABSOLUTELY.

Color me "un-ecstatic." I like Charmin and wish her the best, but the program is at ground zero right now and she's been the associate head coach through the decline. The hope, presumably, is that she had lots of ideas that Lindsay Gottlieb never implemented, and now that she's in charge, we'll see a change in direction.

For those who don't follow the program, here's where it stands:

Let's start with who's returning from the 10th place team in the Pac-12:

Jaelyn Brown (started 32 games): 4.1 ppg, 7.9 rpg
CJ West (1 start): 3.5 ppg, 4.3 rpg
Alaysia Styles (0 starts): 1.9 ppg, 2.2 rpg

Oft-injured Mi'Cole Cayton and seldom-seen post Chen Yue are the other two.

So that's the start: The cupboard is bare, and no elite recruits (as far as anyone can tell) are on the way.

Now, look at Cal's recent Pac-12 history, a 30-42 record over the past four seasons. The finishes?

7th
5th
7th
10th

And those finishes came with the No. 8 overall pick in the WNBA draft in the middle.

Finally, Kianna Smith transferred already, and McKenzie Forbes is in the portal.

And remember, the Pac-12 is the best women's basketball conference in the country, so there's not much opportunity for quick improvement. A 10th place team losing everyone (with nothing coming in) is unlikely to improve, and much more likely to drop in the standings.

I am ecstatic about the hire but not about the state of the program, and I am not a huge fan of Gottlieb. Hopefully, Forbes stays given the new hire.

oski003 said:

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helltopay1 said:

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read ALL the comments on the Cal Women BB site and you will be educated . i.e. LG developed "wanderlust" a long time ago: Of all the top tier candidates listed by Wayne, who is terrifically educated in this area, Smith was not even mentioned as a possible candidate . Supposedly, JK wanted to settle on a HC but eventually settled on Smith. Wayne also said, that, because we are talking about Cal, male candidates ( of any stripe) cannot be considered. He also said that Smith has never evinced any interest at all in becoming a HC. He said that Smith knew that LG was going to leave sooner rather than later, and, rather than staying and lobbying for the HC gig, left Cal to go to the WNBA> All in all, on the surface, not a very impressive hire. He also said that the timing of LG's departure couldn't have been worse. Not only did she jump ship but she jumped when nobody was wearing life jackets. JK was dealt a very poor hand. Nevertheless, this is a D+ grade which has the chance of becoming a C in the future. BTW, one source said that " 5* white girls did not want to play for LG. Interesting if true. He did not elaborate. Another source said that he lived next door to Smith for many years and that "she was painfully shy." There are good uses for shyness, but, I'm not sure shyness and being a HC belong in the same sentence. That said, of course, I wish her well. Good thing I am not emotionally invested in the success of her program. Being emotionally invested in the success of Mr. Fox is more than enough.

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The only reason Smith wasnt mentioned as a top candidate is because the poster assumed she wasnt interested. full stop. most on the womens bball board are ecstatic about the hire.

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I have no knowledge of women's basketball, and no opinion on the hire of Charmin Smith. She has my full support and best wishes for her success. However, this does look a little bit like a movie we've seen before, doesn't it? Two years ago, the Cal AD at the time hired a Cal assistant basketball coach to be head coach of the men's team. Both Wyking Jones and Charmin Smith were assistant coaches for different teams over several years. Both had played basketball at a high level in their sports, but neither had been a head coach at any level. The Wyking Jones hire was met with intense criticism from nearly every fan on the men's Basketball Forum (some fans more critical than others), and Wyking had very little support. Charmin Smith's hire has been met on the Women's Basketball Forum with emotions from support to ecstasy itself. Why do you think Smith is a better hire than Jones was, based on their experience? Why do men's basketball fans almost en masse demand that Cal hire at least a former head coach, and many want a former head coach with proven success? They wanted that even before Jones was hired. Is Charmin's experience as an assistant better than Jones' experience as an assistant? Or are Cal women's basketball fans not as demanding? I've oversimplified the hire, as there are many factors involved. But doesn't it look odd that Cal would hire another former assistant coach to run one of their basketball programs, when they tried that already with Wyking Jones and he failed badly?

I don't have an opinion on the hire because I don't generally follow WBB. I will state, however, that Wyking's failure is Wyking's failure. WBB, and Charmin in particular, has no ownership for the successes or failures of MBB.

If you eat at a bad restaurant, do you then decide to stop eating out? Or does a different restaurant deserve its own opportunity to succeed or fail? If Charmin is thought to be the right person to lead WBB, then doesn't she deserve the opportunity to succeed or fail on her own merits?

So much for negativity. . . tsk, tsk.

Maybe the NCAA will pass a reg' that no member institution shall hire a person as HC if they have not been a HC at any level in any country or sport. . . regardless. . . no asst HC's, no assoc HC's . . . even if 10-50 years coaching experience. No cream of the crop asst coach makes it to the top of the glass bottle . . . nada!

Note: Please sign the attached petition to fire Coach Tom Izzo of MSu . . . retroactive to 1995. . . and place MSu on probation for promoting their asst coach to HC.

SFCityBear said:

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oski003 said:

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helltopay1 said:

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read ALL the comments on the Cal Women BB site and you will be educated . i.e. LG developed "wanderlust" a long time ago: Of all the top tier candidates listed by Wayne, who is terrifically educated in this area, Smith was not even mentioned as a possible candidate . Supposedly, JK wanted to settle on a HC but eventually settled on Smith. Wayne also said, that, because we are talking about Cal, male candidates ( of any stripe) cannot be considered. He also said that Smith has never evinced any interest at all in becoming a HC. He said that Smith knew that LG was going to leave sooner rather than later, and, rather than staying and lobbying for the HC gig, left Cal to go to the WNBA> All in all, on the surface, not a very impressive hire. He also said that the timing of LG's departure couldn't have been worse. Not only did she jump ship but she jumped when nobody was wearing life jackets. JK was dealt a very poor hand. Nevertheless, this is a D+ grade which has the chance of becoming a C in the future. BTW, one source said that " 5* white girls did not want to play for LG. Interesting if true. He did not elaborate. Another source said that he lived next door to Smith for many years and that "she was painfully shy." There are good uses for shyness, but, I'm not sure shyness and being a HC belong in the same sentence. That said, of course, I wish her well. Good thing I am not emotionally invested in the success of her program. Being emotionally invested in the success of Mr. Fox is more than enough.

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The only reason Smith wasnt mentioned as a top candidate is because the poster assumed she wasnt interested. full stop. most on the womens bball board are ecstatic about the hire.

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I have no knowledge of women's basketball, and no opinion on the hire of Charmin Smith. She has my full support and best wishes for her success. However, this does look a little bit like a movie we've seen before, doesn't it? Two years ago, the Cal AD at the time hired a Cal assistant basketball coach to be head coach of the men's team. Both Wyking Jones and Charmin Smith were assistant coaches for different teams over several years. Both had played basketball at a high level in their sports, but neither had been a head coach at any level. The Wyking Jones hire was met with intense criticism from nearly every fan on the men's Basketball Forum (some fans more critical than others), and Wyking had very little support. Charmin Smith's hire has been met on the Women's Basketball Forum with emotions from support to ecstasy itself. Why do you think Smith is a better hire than Jones was, based on their experience? Why do men's basketball fans almost en masse demand that Cal hire at least a former head coach, and many want a former head coach with proven success? They wanted that even before Jones was hired. Is Charmin's experience as an assistant better than Jones' experience as an assistant? Or are Cal women's basketball fans not as demanding? I've oversimplified the hire, as there are many factors involved. But doesn't it look odd that Cal would hire another former assistant coach to run one of their basketball programs, when they tried that already with Wyking Jones and he failed badly?

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for one thing, wyking jones was not going to be hired to coach in the nba. he wasnt even a top assistant.

part of the reason this is a good hire is the timing. LG left in the summer. it is hard to fill the vacancy with top candidates this late.

stu said:

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SFCityBear said:

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... Why do you think Smith is a better hire than Jones was, based on their experience?

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Good question. I'd say despite the similarities there are significant differences.

Charmin earned bachelors and masters degrees in engineering from Stanford while playing on Final Four teams. You can't do that without formidable intellect and work ethic. She also played in the WNBA.

Charmin has coached at Cal for 12 years, 7 of those as associate head coach. Prior to that she coached 3 years at Stanford. She certainly knows the Pac-12 and came with a glowing recommendation from coaching legend Tara VanDerveer. Also she's well known and seems to be well liked by the fans.

oski003 said:

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... part of the reason this is a good hire is the timing. LG left in the summer. it is hard to fill the vacancy with top candidates this late.

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Good point. I don't know the process but it's possible that Charmin was the most compelling candidate or we didn't look too hard or others we contacted expressed no interest. We may find out at the presser.

Like Wyking she'll be tested early. Three of our top four players graduated and another transferred out before Lindsay left. Recently one incoming freshie requested a release from her LOI and one of our best returning players entered the transfer portal. At best we'll be relying on injured blueshirts and freshies and it's probably too late to find additional players. The good news is our 2020 recruiting won't have to start from zero. The bad news is the Pac-12 is the toughest league in the country.

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Good informative points from both you and Oski003. Thanks for responding. It will be interesting how Charmin deals with playing the games with a roster depleted of much of its talent. Hopefully she will not announce A) that she will run mostly a full-court press to make up for a lack of offense, and B) she will not pick out one perhaps talented but very erratic player and make her the "go-to" player in her offense, both of which killed Cal's chances on the men's side in Wyking's first season.

SFCityBear said:

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... It will be interesting how Charmin deals with playing the games with a roster depleted of much of its talent. Hopefully she will not announce A) that she will run mostly a full-court press to make up for a lack of offense, and B) she will not pick out one perhaps talented but very erratic player and make her the "go-to" player in her offense, both of which killed Cal's chances on the men's side in Wyking's first season.

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I'm hoping (and predicting) Charmin's strategy will look more like Pete Newell's than Wyking Jones'.