Fox's Georgia teams were usually much better on defense than offense.

KenPom Rankings
Year: Total, Off, Def
17-18: 65, 122, 27
16-17: 61, 96, 44
15-16: 71, 118, 46
14-15: 35, 70, 22
13-14: 78, 108, 71
12-13: 113, 184, 71
11-12: 112, 139, 89
10-11: 63, 86, 47
9-10: 91, 64, 137

In his postgame interviews he's mostly been dissatisfied with Cal's defense so far. We were among the worst in the country on defense last year. We can expect things to tighten up going forward.

I agree, although our limitation is going to be a lack of a solid post presence (Thiemann is too green, Kelly too small).

UrsaMajor said:

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I agree, although our limitation is going to be a lack of a solid post presence (Thiemann is too green, Kelly too small).

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That's definitely gonna be an issue especially in conference play going against big and athletic guys in the post (and there's a lot of good young ones in the conference). I'd add too that we don't have much length on the perimeter for defending 3s. Taller wings don't need much space to get shots up over us. Celestine and Bowser are much more in the mold of how Fox would ideally like to defend the perimeter.

UrsaMajor said:

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I agree, although our limitation is going to be a lack of a solid post presence (Thiemann is too green, Kelly too small).

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This is college basketball, not the NBA. Kelly's size is perfectly fine for the college game.

Pigskin Pete said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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I agree, although our limitation is going to be a lack of a solid post presence (Thiemann is too green, Kelly too small).

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This is college basketball, not the NBA. Kelly's size is perfectly fine for the college game.

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Have to disagree. Andre is listed at 6-8, but is probably a bit shorter. By comparison:

Arizona has one player at 7-0, 2 @ 6-11 and one at 6-10, one at 6-9
UCLA has 2 @ 6-10 and 2 @ 6-9
USC has 1 @ 6-11, one @ 6-10 and one @ 6-9
Furd has 4 @ 6-9, one @ 6-10 and one @ 7-0
Utah has one @ 7-4, one @ 7-0, one @ 6-10 and 2 @ 6-9

I could go on, but you get the point. Kelly is likely going to struggle against the bigger front lines in the P12.

Kuany to the rescue? If he surprises on the upside, defense could get much better. Think he's listed at 6'10

fat_slice said:

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Kuany to the rescue? If he surprises on the upside, defense could get much better. Think he's listed at 6'10

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He was the one new player who I wanted to see the most. We knew almost nothing about him, except that he was athletic, played with a lot of energy, and is 6-10. I saw very brief clips, and not enough to guess about his ability. I felt that he could be a great addition at 6-10, if he was that mobile, he could play the small forward, and give us some real height. I'd rather not see us going small most of the time with 6-4 Bradley at the 3. It will work against some teams, and in some situations, but as UrsaMajor pointed out there are some tall front lines in the PAC12. I sure hope he recovers soon enough to start playing some minutes.

With Brown, South and Harris-Dyson pressuring shooters, we could use a good rim protector.

Lars is still learning how to defend his man and is very slow to react when the other team penetrates.

Kelly can take charges but won't block a lot of shots.

Kuany might be an option, but he'd have a lot to learn as a freshman.

UrsaMajor said:

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Pigskin Pete said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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I agree, although our limitation is going to be a lack of a solid post presence (Thiemann is too green, Kelly too small).

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This is college basketball, not the NBA. Kelly's size is perfectly fine for the college game.

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Have to disagree. Andre is listed at 6-8, but is probably a bit shorter. By comparison:

Arizona has one player at 7-0, 2 @ 6-11 and one at 6-10, one at 6-9
UCLA has 2 @ 6-10 and 2 @ 6-9
USC has 1 @ 6-11, one @ 6-10 and one @ 6-9
Furd has 4 @ 6-9, one @ 6-10 and one @ 7-0
Utah has one @ 7-4, one @ 7-0, one @ 6-10 and 2 @ 6-9

I could go on, but you get the point. Kelly is likely going to struggle against the bigger front lines in the P12.

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And what happens when PAC-12 refs put him in foul trouble?

UrsaMajor said:

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Pigskin Pete said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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I agree, although our limitation is going to be a lack of a solid post presence (Thiemann is too green, Kelly too small).

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This is college basketball, not the NBA. Kelly's size is perfectly fine for the college game.

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Have to disagree. Andre is listed at 6-8, but is probably a bit shorter. By comparison:

Arizona has one player at 7-0, 2 @ 6-11 and one at 6-10, one at 6-9
UCLA has 2 @ 6-10 and 2 @ 6-9
USC has 1 @ 6-11, one @ 6-10 and one @ 6-9
Furd has 4 @ 6-9, one @ 6-10 and one @ 7-0
Utah has one @ 7-4, one @ 7-0, one @ 6-10 and 2 @ 6-9

I could go on, but you get the point. Kelly is likely going to struggle against the bigger front lines in the P12.

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The defending national champion's roster height for their top five MPG players are as follows.

5'9", 6'2", 6'5", 6'7", 6'9".

Their 7'1" and 6'10" reserve big men played 4 and 3 minutes each in the national championship game.

I could go on, but you get the point. Kelly needs to improve defensively, but his size isn't the issue.

I do think Kelly's size is an issue even though he brings a lot of good things to the table. You cited UVA noting that only 1 of the top mpg guys were above 6'8" but the next three in mpg are all above 6'8. Regardless though, the UVA defense rarely makes their defending post take a guy one on one. The whole point of the defense is prevent entry or driving lanes in the key and when the ball does go to the post, the others collapse and force the offensive player to kick it out. Fox has previously mentioned that he'll play some pack line defense situationally (and with Brown highly conductive to the defense; we may see it ourselves), but in any situation going 1:1 in the post against some of the bigs in the conference, I'll guarantee you that he wishes he had more size (and athleticism).

TheSouseFamily said:

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I do think Kelly's size is an issue even though he brings a lot of good things to the table. You cited UVA noting that only 1 of the top mpg guys were above 6'8" but the next three in mpg are all above 6'8. Regardless though, the UVA defense rarely makes their defending post take a guy one on one. The whole point of the defense is prevent entry or driving lanes in the key and when the ball does go to the post, the others collapse and force the offensive player to kick it out. Fox has previously mentioned that he'll play some pack line defense situationally (and with Brown highly conductive to the defense; we may see it ourselves), but in any situation going 1:1 in the post against some of the bigs in the conference, I'll guarantee you that he wishes he had more size (and athleticism).

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I wouldn't mind a tall guy to play in the middle of the defense either, but he'd have to be a good defender and rebounder. Lars at this point isn't a big factor on the boards. Kelly at this point is a better rebounder, but not a good defender. However, their tall guy has to guard Kelly as well and with his proficiency as a jump shooter and finishing down low, he provides some challenges to opposing defenders.

Gotta stop old-way thinking of how basketball works. UNLV had all kinds of size advantages on us, but we won the game anyway.

TheSouseFamily said:

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I do think Kelly's size is an issue even though he brings a lot of good things to the table. You cited UVA noting that only 1 of the top mpg guys were above 6'8" but the next three in mpg are all above 6'8. Regardless though, the UVA defense rarely makes their defending post take a guy one on one. The whole point of the defense is prevent entry or driving lanes in the key and when the ball does go to the post, the others collapse and force the offensive player to kick it out. Fox has previously mentioned that he'll play some pack line defense situationally (and with Brown highly conductive to the defense; we may see it ourselves), but in any situation going 1:1 in the post against some of the bigs in the conference, I'll guarantee you that he wishes he had more size (and athleticism).

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I get the impression that Coach Fox is not the kind of guy who wastes much of his time wishing for things like size and athleticism. He appears to me to be more of a doer, someone who rolls up his sleeves and tries to make the best out of what he has, and if he feels size and athleticism is lacking, he will recruit for that. I think we have plenty more athleticism and size now than we had under Wyking Jones, and we haven't even seen Kuany play a minute for us yet, and we've barely seen Thorpe. Size and athleticism are over-rated. Both Pepperdine and UNLV appeared to be quicker and have more athleticism than us, and Cal won both games. Okoroh had size. So did Geoffrey Frid. Don Coleman had athleticism. What Cal needed in those years was not size and athleticism. It was better basketball players, and in Wyking Jones' case, better coaching.

I do think Kelly's size will be an issue, just like it was an issue last year

However, he's slimmed down since last year, and looks better fundamentally on defense so there is an improvement there

Also, Coach let's him play facing the basket more as a stretch 4, and he's very capable of it

I however posted before that we don't have any current players who can defend a quick/strong 4 facing the basket who can shoot and drive (like Tillman). That was a problem last year too if you remember

Maybe Thorpe can be that guy. Maybe Kuany can be that guy, but both are probably low PT players this year

I think we will see a lot of Dyson playing as he can defend 4 positions using his quickness, athleticism and length. Defending and rebounding vs 4s is going to be tough if they are true back-to-the-basket types, but otherwise he defended Tillman the best out of everyone we tried (which was our entire front court)

Length in general is a problem for this team as we could be undersized at 4 positions on the court at the same time

And yes, Length is only one factor, but it's a significant factor if that length also are legit talent (which they are in the Pac12)