After a humiliating loss, it's kind of a BI tradition that someone will post that a previous coach (often Braun) would have won the game. I thought I'd just keep tradition alive...

Without mentioning any names, I do think that the suggestion that Andre Kelly was plenty big enough to hang with larger post players might have been a tad optimistic...

UrsaMajor said:

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After a humiliating loss, it's kind of a BI tradition that someone will post that a previous coach (often Braun) would have won the game. I thought I'd just keep tradition alive...

Without mentioning any names, I do think that the suggestion that Andre Kelly was plenty big enough to hang with larger post players might have been a tad optimistic...

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He's built like Wes Unseld, but the resemblance stops there. And has anyone ever taught him the pump fake? That is what you might do when you get the ball inside and are guarded by taller or more athletic players. Three times I counted that he got a pass or a rebound and went right up with the shot, and got his shot stuffed back in his face. And I am tired of that soft left-handed sort of a floater that he puts up with no more than a prayer. He had two air balls last night, one of them was shot two feet from the rim and missed the rim by a foot. How can you air ball from two feet away? The only other player I've seen do that was Richard Solomon as a freshman, but his was shot from the side and he put it up too strong. Kelly shot his straight on, and the shot missed to the side. I don't like picking on a player. I like Kelly. He is a year or two away for being solid. With him, it will require teaching, and game experience. Scrimmaging against Lars won't help him, because Lars is even greener than Kelly. Of course to be fair, none of the other members of the main rotation could hang with the Duke players either. Sorry for the rant.

HearstMining said:

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Markhuri Sanders-Frison might be a more relevant example, although certainly not as accomplished a player as Unseld. Once he got his weight under control his senior year, he was an important contributor in many games. If you're overmatched in height, you really need a "money" inside move and a pump-fake off of that move.

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You're right. I had forgotten about him. He was a fine Cal player. Got hurt too often, though. That one move and left hook was unstoppable. At least Cal fans would have remembered him, and Unseld played a long time ago. But he was a dominant player. it was fun to watch him go up against the likes of Wilt and Russell. He was so strong and athletic, he could get a rebound and fire the ball up the floor to start a fast break, and I swear the pass sometimes left his hands before his feet came down and touched the floor.

Excellent observation, SFCity. I was yelling at the TV for a pump fake. On a couple of plays he could have scored if he had gone up strong QUICKLY, but he takes too long to gather himself for that.

UrsaMajor said:

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Excellent observation, SFCity. I was yelling at the TV for a pump fake. On a couple of plays he could have scored if he had gone up strong QUICKLY, but he takes too long to gather himself for that.

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Paris Austin got an offensive rebound, and he, too, went right back up with the shot, with three defenders waiting, and his shot got stuffed too. Sometimes, even an NBA player will use one, two, and even a third shot fake to get an opponent to up in the air, and as the defender is coming down and he can go up can then get his shot off. At least Austin knows how to use the glass on a layup. Using the glass inside, if you are skilled at it, is a high percentage shot. Nobody else on Cal seems to use the glass much, if at all.

I don't think Kelly is QUICK enough to ball fake and I KNOW players don't have to jump to defend it. Just stick on the ground and go vertical. You still will disrupt the shot.

We really need a post player or two. Lars MIGHT get there - though he truly lives the words - WHite men can't jump.

socaltownie said:

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I don't think Kelly is QUICK enough to ball fake and I KNOW players don't have to jump to defend it. Just stick on the ground and go vertical. You still will disrupt the shot.

We really need a post player or two. Lars MIGHT get there - though he truly lives the words - WHite men can't jump.

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You didn't really say that, did you? You should take that back. Kelly couldn't jump over another player's shoes in his freshman year. He's a little better now.

SFCityBear said:

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socaltownie said:

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I don't think Kelly is QUICK enough to ball fake and I KNOW players don't have to jump to defend it. Just stick on the ground and go vertical. You still will disrupt the shot.

We really need a post player or two. Lars MIGHT get there - though he truly lives the words - WHite men can't jump.

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You didn't really say that, did you? You should take that back. Kelly couldn't jump over another player's shoes in his freshman year. He's a little better now.

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He can now clear their shoes BARELY.

Honestly it is going to be the biggest thing for Fox's recruiting - can he find a post player with some athleticism (essentially the white whale for Cal recruiting with the notable exception of Young Ivee). We have talent at the wings which is going to be decent. We could use both a 5 who can protect the rim and a stretch 4 who can also rebound.

Thorpe is the best answer at the 5. He shot well as against Duke but his free throws do need work. At least he is quick enough to alter shots down low once he figures out how not to be posterized like Texas did to him. I like Thorpe a lot. Lars is much too slow to be effective on defense and so is Kelly for that matter. Grant seems even slower than Lars. Cannot free himself to shoot and we could really use his shooting touch. Brown simply can't shoot at all though he did have a good game on his birthday. Think folks here are much too tough on Paris. He at least unlike Brown can finish at the rim some of the time. Should be interesting watching Fox develop these guys over the rest of the season. Looking forward to having at least a 500 team next year.

UrsaMajor said:

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After a humiliating loss, it's kind of a BI tradition that someone will post that a previous coach (often Braun) would have won the game. I thought I'd just keep tradition alive...

Without mentioning any names, I do think that the suggestion that Andre Kelly was plenty big enough to hang with larger post players might have been a tad optimistic...

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I think Andre Kelly has more to offer than we've seen so far.

SFCityBear said:

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socaltownie said:

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I don't think Kelly is QUICK enough to ball fake and I KNOW players don't have to jump to defend it. Just stick on the ground and go vertical. You still will disrupt the shot.

We really need a post player or two. Lars MIGHT get there - though he truly lives the words - WHite men can't jump.

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You didn't really say that, did you? You should take that back. Kelly couldn't jump over another player's shoes in his freshman year. He's a little better now.

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I think that its amazing this board is focusing on how QUICK Kelly should be when Lars is getting more minutes than him. If there is a critique to be made, lets start with Lars and leave Kelly alone.

Bigs that bring the ball down to their waist may be in my top 2 of WT* when watching basketball.

The Fighting Cuonzos lose at home to Charleston Southern tonight 68-60

BC Calfan said:

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The Fighting Cuonzos lose at home to Charleston Southern tonight 68-60

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That's the 288th ranked team in the country coming in with a 2-5 record. Ouch. I bet much water was consumed.

TheSouseFamily said:

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BC Calfan said:

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The Fighting Cuonzos lose at home to Charleston Southern tonight 68-60

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That's the 288th ranked team in the country coming in with a 2-5 record. Ouch. I bet much water was consumed.

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Reports indicate 4-5 gallons.

bearup said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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BC Calfan said:

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The Fighting Cuonzos lose at home to Charleston Southern tonight 68-60

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That's the 288th ranked team in the country coming in with a 2-5 record. Ouch. I bet much water was consumed.

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Reports indicate 4-5 gallons.

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Water intoxication. Paramedics called.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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SFCityBear said:

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socaltownie said:

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I don't think Kelly is QUICK enough to ball fake and I KNOW players don't have to jump to defend it. Just stick on the ground and go vertical. You still will disrupt the shot.

We really need a post player or two. Lars MIGHT get there - though he truly lives the words - WHite men can't jump.

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You didn't really say that, did you? You should take that back. Kelly couldn't jump over another player's shoes in his freshman year. He's a little better now.

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I think that its amazing this board is focusing on how QUICK Kelly should be when Lars is getting more minutes than him. If there is a critique to be made, lets start with Lars and leave Kelly alone.

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I agree.

bearup said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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BC Calfan said:

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The Fighting Cuonzos lose at home to Charleston Southern tonight 68-60

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That's the 288th ranked team in the country coming in with a 2-5 record. Ouch. I bet much water was consumed.

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Reports indicate 4-5 gallons.

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I heard that it wasn't a good idea to get between Cuonzo and the urinal....

Kelly plays like he is Uneld, but Andre is not as athletic, nor as quick,as Wes was. He has limitations on offense as a result, but I think it makes him a liability on defense even more, I wish Fox wsould play Thorpe, who has shown he can board and defend inside. Thorpe has a game similar to his NBA father, which would make a better compliment to Lars inside.

We may see Thorpe soon. Something needs to change. At least Kuani can make free throws. I would think he should get some of Antivich minutes .

Santa Clara is a winnable game. They play poor man defense.