Let';s be clear. USF played a hard-fought game last night. Cal is fresh. In addition, USF is a mid-major team. Cal either needs to win tonight, or, at the least, give a terrific account of themselves. Failing that, we will be lucky to finish in 11th place in the Pac-12. Just sayin........

I agree. It is going to test a few theories of mine. At the very least, the point spread seems too rich. Take Bears and the 8.5.

I guess this works for the game thread. Nice job, H2P

KenBurnski said:

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I guess this works for the game thread. Nice job, H2P

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Yes, excellent.

On the other thread, I posted that Georgetown (without recently-departed starting PG Akinjo) beat
previously undefeated Oklahoma State AT OKU......81 to 74

CAL 67 USF 65

KenBurnski said:

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I guess this works for the game thread. Nice job, H2P

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Yes, excellent.

On the other thread, I posted that Georgetown (without recently-departed starting PG Akinjo) beat
previously undefeated Oklahoma State AT OKU......81 to 74

CAL 67 USF 65

Bradley not starting. "Rules violation."

Bradley not starting. "Rules violation"

KenBurnski said:

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Bradley not starting. "Rules violation."

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What?????????????????

Lars with a free throw!

Lars with a free throw!

KenBurnski said:

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Bradley not starting. "Rules violation."

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OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

USF looks a bit tired

KenBurnski said:

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Bradley not starting. "Rules violation."

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Make that

CAL wins 26 to 25

Not good early - down by 11 with 4 points in 8 minutes. On pace to score 20.

bearister said:

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I agree. It is going to test a few theories of mine. At the very least, the point spread seems too rich. Take Bears and the 8.5.

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The test results of my theories are in:

Imagine the point spread if USF had fresh legs. I'm beginning to get depressed again. Today I went to Costco to buy 200.00 worth of alcohol. This accomplishes two purposes.
a) gives me the nerve to go to confession ( almost)
b) prevents me from driving to the bridge because I'm drunk

I said I would report on the NV-Santa Clara game. I was there. NV completely routed SC, 98-67. NV hit 14-28 from three. SC is a poor defensive and a poor rebounding team. If Cal cannot beat them then they are really bad.

helltopay1 said:

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Imagine the point spread if USF had fresh legs. I'm beginning to get depressed again. Today I went to Costco to buy 200.00 worth of alcohol. This accomplishes two purposes.
a) gives me the nerve to go to confession ( almost)
b) prevents me from driving to the bridge because I'm drunk

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HTP: Great Post. Dark but great.

tequila4kapp said:

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We beat Prairie View by 4, Davis by 6 and lost to USF. We know what this team is. We need to be patient. We are on a multi year journey.

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Tonight our leading rebounder was Paris Austin with 6. Great effort on his part but he's a senior. I understand what you're saying about patience.

Man Thieman needs to get tough. Play Thorpe more. I was hoping JHD had improved on O. Yikes.

KoreAmBear said:

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Man Thieman needs to get tough. Play Thorpe more. I was hoping JHD had improved on O. Yikes.

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I'm still optimistic that Thiemann will develop into a good player for us in a few years but he's a long way from that right now. He just lacks the strength, agility and toughness to play in the post at this level right now. And even though he has good size, he plays much smaller and is a below-the-rim guy. It's a just a struggle for him offensively, defensively, on the boards, etc. It's a mismatch in nearly every game.

Currently, the post minutes are pretty much evenly split between Kelly and Thiemann but I'd like to see that shift more to Kelly. I'm still not sure what we've got in Kuany and Thorpe but given where a Thiemann is at right now, it wouldn't hirt to see more of those guys. But I'm sure Fox sees what he needs in practice and has determined they're even less ready than Thiemann. Would be great for one of the freshman 4s/5s to take it to the next level and I had been hopeful we'd see that, but it doesn't sound like that's gonna happen this year.

Speaking of lineup changes, I'd probably start Paris too at this point. Brown provides good on-ball defense but that's about it right now. I certainly understand the desire to invest in the young guys like Brown and Thiemann but we need to win some games this year.

TheSouseFamily said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Man Thieman needs to get tough. Play Thorpe more. I was hoping JHD had improved on O. Yikes.

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I'm still optimistic that Thiemann will develop into a good player for us in a few years but he's a long way from that right now. He just lacks the strength, agility and toughness to play in the post at this level right now. And even though he has good size, he plays much smaller and is a below-the-rim guy. It's a just a struggle for him offensively, defensively, on the boards, etc. It's a mismatch in nearly every game.

Currently, the post minutes are pretty much evenly split between Kelly and Thiemann but I'd like to see that shift more to Kelly. I'm still not sure what we've got in Kuany and Thorpe but given where a Thiemann is at right now, it wouldn't hirt to see more of those guys. But I'm sure Fox sees what he needs in practice and has determined they're even less ready than Thiemann. Would be great for one of the freshman 4s/5s to take it to the next level and I had been hopeful we'd see that, but it doesn't sound like that's gonna happen this year.

Speaking of lineup changes, I'd probably start Paris too at this point. Brown provides good on-ball defense but that's about it right now. I certainly understand the desire to invest in the young guys like Brown and Thiemann but we need to win some games this year.

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Gosh I don't see what you see in Lars. I see a guy who is supposedly 7 feet and that is about it. Really nothing jumps out right now about his ability to progress. I know what they say about bigs and giving them time - but my god the man could not make a dunk from a foot out because he was worried that the Emo dude for USF would swat him - got fouled, made one of 2,a win for the Dons.

(Accidentally posted this on Insider Board)

I went to the game too. Had a great experience despite the loss. Sat in the 3rd row across court from cal bench. Some of the best seats I've ever had at a hoops game.

USF is better. They win on a neutral court and most likely beat us at Haas. Those saying we never should never has scheduled this game at War Memorial----location didn't matter. USF does everything better than us.

Nothing too revealing from our players. I felt like Lars was a little more active last night but didn't result in anything. South was our best player but only because he was knocking down shots. He had the play of the game where he missed a lay-up but stripped the rebounder, went up and got and and-1. Brown didn't do too much. On one play he was fired up and broke his man down, drove and got a layup. Have to see A LOT more of that.

I finally figured out what's wrong with JHD. I don't know if it's been mentioned on this board buthe has hands of stone. In transition, he loses it. In half court drives, he loses it. Receiving passes on cuts to the basket, he loses it. Maybe it's mental but he's got to work on it somehow.

One issue that's worrisome was the collective mood of the team. Not sure if it's because they were on the road or because they trailed the whole game, but there wasn't much joy visible. Even in warm-ups before the game, even when they made runs to cut down the lead. Very few smiles. They looked tight like they're putting too much pressure on themselves. The atmosphere was great last night, channel it and have some fun, don't take it too seriously. Maybe this stems from lack of leadership.

Cool to see former players at the game hanging out. Famulener, Powers, Singer and Mullins all there. Bill Cartwright in the house too. Longtime De La Salle Coach Frank Alloco apparently works for the program as Executive Sr. Associate Athletics Director, External Relations (whatever that means).

I understand rebuilding this team is a "long journey. At 84 I don't think I can last that long. I have been waiting since 1960.

BC Calfan said:

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(Accidentally posted this on Insider Board)

I went to the game too. Had a great experience despite the loss. Sat in the 3rd row across court from cal bench. Some of the best seats I've ever had at a hoops game.

USF is better. They win on a neutral court and most likely beat us at Haas. Those saying we never should never has scheduled this game at War Memorial----location didn't matter. USF does everything better than us.

Nothing too revealing from our players. I felt like Lars was a little more active last night but didn't result in anything. South was our best player but only because he was knocking down shots. He had the play of the game where he missed a lay-up but stripped the rebounder, went up and got and and-1. Brown didn't do too much. On one play he was fired up and broke his man down, drove and got a layup. Have to see A LOT more of that.

I finally figured out what's wrong with JHD. I don't know if it's been mentioned on this board buthe has hands of stone. In transition, he loses it. In half court drives, he loses it. Receiving passes on cuts to the basket, he loses it. Maybe it's mental but he's got to work on it somehow.

One issue that's worrisome was the collective mood of the team. Not sure if it's because they were on the road or because they trailed the whole game, but there wasn't much joy visible. Even in warm-ups before the game, even when they made runs to cut down the lead. Very few smiles. They looked tight like they're putting too much pressure on themselves. The atmosphere was great last night, channel it and have some fun, don't take it too seriously. Maybe this stems from lack of leadership.

Cool to see former players at the game hanging out. Famulener, Powers, Singer and Mullins all there. Bill Cartwright in the house too. Longtime De La Salle Coach Frank Alloco apparently works for the program as Executive Sr. Associate Athletics Director, External Relations (whatever that means).

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"Hands of stone" didn't seem to stop Roberto Duran!

Harris-Dyson is the classic example of "fast-twitch/run-jump athleticism" vs. "hand-eye coordination/body-control athleticism". He is Chris Mullin, except made of anti-matter.

Can O. Yikes play defense?

Is it lack of effort and.or quickness and.or experience and.or coaching and.or other?

The post by Big C is worrisome.

bearup said:

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Can O. Yikes play defense?

Is it lack of effort and.or quickness and.or experience and.or coaching and.or other?

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Like Big C said, it's the hands. Both JHD and Lars. Can hands be improved? Probably not, but I think it's more awareness of this so that you stick to keeping it basic and do too much esp. JHD. Lars it's more about coaching him to be aggressive and forceful. He looks like he is a nice gift shop employee. He needs to act like he's in an MMA cage.

How about a bull in a china shop?

joe amos yaks said:

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How about a bull in a china shop?

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stu said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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We beat Prairie View by 4, Davis by 6 and lost to USF. We know what this team is. We need to be patient. We are on a multi year journey.

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Tonight our leading rebounder was Paris Austin with 6. Great effort on his part but he's a senior. I understand what you're saying about patience.

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He also either was, or looked like he was, the smallest player on the floor, which guess does not say much for our bigs. I really liked Kuany's rebound, though. Last game I saw him in, he missed two straight free throws. In this game, he went 4-4 from the line. At least he may be improving.

KoreAmBear said:

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Man Thieman needs to get tough. Play Thorpe more. I was hoping JHD had improved on O. Yikes.

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If an opponent hits him in the face hard, maybe he will wake up and get mad. He is too nice, and needs to get aggressive. And to do that better, he needs to work hard in the weight room and turn all that baby fat into muscle. Jimbo Lull has been around a few years, and knows how to play in the post, and Lars is a young boy with potential. I took 2 years for Darrall Imhoff to get aggressive. It took Richard Solomon 3 years to get aggressive. Most 7 footers are not ready as freshmen. Ivan Rabb was the exception, and even he had to learn defense and to stay out of foul trouble. I would not read too much into Lars' early games here. He will get better.

TheSouseFamily said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Man Thieman needs to get tough. Play Thorpe more. I was hoping JHD had improved on O. Yikes.

---

I'm still optimistic that Thiemann will develop into a good player for us in a few years but he's a long way from that right now. He just lacks the strength, agility and toughness to play in the post at this level right now. And even though he has good size, he plays much smaller and is a below-the-rim guy. It's a just a struggle for him offensively, defensively, on the boards, etc. It's a mismatch in nearly every game.

Currently, the post minutes are pretty much evenly split between Kelly and Thiemann but I'd like to see that shift more to Kelly. I'm still not sure what we've got in Kuany and Thorpe but given where a Thiemann is at right now, it wouldn't hirt to see more of those guys. But I'm sure Fox sees what he needs in practice and has determined they're even less ready than Thiemann. Would be great for one of the freshman 4s/5s to take it to the next level and I had been hopeful we'd see that, but it doesn't sound like that's gonna happen this year.

Speaking of lineup changes, I'd probably start Paris too at this point. Brown provides good on-ball defense but that's about it right now. I certainly understand the desire to invest in the young guys like Brown and Thiemann but we need to win some games this year.

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I think Fox does want to win some games, and he sees the limitations in both Kelly and Austin, but he realizes that both Kelly and Paris will give him more offense, and they would both be better at this point coming of the bench to provide some spark in Kelly's case, and some stability in Paris's case. If he started Kelly and Paris, then he'd be bringing in Lars and Brown off the bench, and he would have a real drop off in offense on the floor. You want your substitutes to be able to bring a change to the game, some quick buckets, or a change in tempo, or fix something. Right now, the best thing Brown would give you off the bench is pressure defense. And Lars is so green, he would not give you much at all off the bench. I believe Fox is starting them both to help them learn and get game experience, and hope that Cal does not get too far behind, before he brings in Kelly and Paris. I think that you may see more of Kuany and Thorpe as they get fully recovered from their injuries. At least I am hoping for that. Brown has been sick with a flu bug or something, so he will recover and will play better than he did against USF. We are a pretty deep team at all positions, just very young at most positions, and not yet as skilled as we need to be.

This was the best defense Cal has faced all year, I think, very aggressive. Too many times a Cal player took a shot, it seemed he was double teamed, and too many times when a USF player took a shot, he was wide open with no one withing 10 feet of him. We have a problem with quick perimeter shooters, because we do not have many quick players. Cal played a great 10 minutes to climb back into the game, and then started the 2nd half the way they started the first half, and then let the game get away. After playing so well, sharing the ball better to end the half, once they got in trouble in the 2nd half, they reverted almost entirely to one-on-one "hero ball", with everyone trying to score when they got the ball. Geez, does this team need a real point guard. Or our point guards need to start playing like one. How many times does Paris Austin have to get stuffed at the rim for him to realize, "Hey, this isn't working." Brown made a crazy-looking shot, and then seemed to watch it finish too long, as his man streaked down the floor for a bucket at the other end. To Brown's credit, he raced after him, and nearly caught up to him in time at the other end. "nearly caught up" is not good enough. The only Cal player I've every seen in my life who could play defense from behind was Jaylen Brown. He used to let his man get past him, chase him down, and block his shot from behind. And never get called for a foul, as most players would get called. Sometimes I think he let his man slip by him on purpose. But Joel is not Jaylen, and he needs to keep his head in the game, and not admire his baskets so much that it costs Cal two points at the other end.

What was this "rules violation" for which Bradley was benched to start the game? Was it a team rule, or an NCAA rule he broke? He never did seem to have his head in this game, like he didn't want to play. He is the leader of this team, and he needs to play like it every game.

One thing that kills Cal in every loss is the turnovers. We average 15 of them. I think at one point USF had 12 points off Cal turnovers, and Cal had 2 points off USF turnovers. That's 10 points we give up. Last night it was stepping out of bounds. Maybe these babies can't see the lines in such a small arena that is not their home. There were at least 3 times Cal was called for stepping out of bounds on the baseline, once on an inbounds play by Bradley, and another by Kelly, where I thought he got pushed. And JHD is a head case. He is a turnover or a foul just waiting to happen. He thinks he is so athletic that he can jump over the back of a rebounder and not get called for it, and then his face is full of dispute or excuses after the call, like "How could I possibly commit a foul?" This team needs the Holiday break for Fox to teach them some fundamentals.