Last five games, 1 and 4

A) Fox's tough guy approach is NOT going to work with a team this talent deficient. Great that he is getting them to work but also clear that they do NOT have WCC talent, much less Pac-12

B) I REALLY fear (and you can just look at the body language) that the team is ready to quit on him. They know they are overmatched. They are not happy. Scary thing is that some of them, if they act now, might be eligible for in 2021 for spring semester schools.

C) If he can't recruit (and nothing says he can) we will be looking for a new coach in about 4 years. Yahoo!! Isn't it cool how we totally screwed up everything that Monty had built? We are back to the very darkest of dark ages.

If the tough guy approach doesn't work for Mr. Fox, how about the Mr. Wolf approach?

socaltownie said:

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Last five games, 1 and 4

A) Fox's tough guy approach is NOT going to work with a team this talent deficient. Great that he is getting them to work but also clear that they do NOT have WCC talent, much less Pac-12

B) I REALLY fear (and you can just look at the body language) that the team is ready to quit on him. They know they are overmatched. They are not happy. Scary thing is that some of them, if they act now, might be eligible for in 2021 for spring semester schools.

C) If he can't recruit (and nothing says he can) we will be looking for a new coach in about 4 years. Yahoo!! Isn't it cool how we totally screwed up everything that Monty had built? We are back to the very darkest of dark ages.

---

Well the last five games have shown me that one of my fave posters, SCT is really upset. Maybe too upset for his own health. I'm not suggesting that anything you are saying is wrong, just that the frequency and tone of your posting seems like you're rooting for CalmBball to fail Maybe that's your intent, but it didn't seem that way in the past. Maybe it's social media, millenniials, polar politics, environmental degradation, avocado toast, pumpkin spice veggie burgers or one of the other ails of the era.

Go Bears!

Luckily, basketball is the type of sport where one highly rated recruit can turn the whole program around. We need one of those guys right now.

bearup said:

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BeachedBear said:

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socaltownie said:

---

Last five games, 1 and 4

A) Fox's tough guy approach is NOT going to work with a team this talent deficient. Great that he is getting them to work but also clear that they do NOT have WCC talent, much less Pac-12

B) I REALLY fear (and you can just look at the body language) that the team is ready to quit on him. They know they are overmatched. They are not happy. Scary thing is that some of them, if they act now, might be eligible for in 2021 for spring semester schools.

C) If he can't recruit (and nothing says he can) we will be looking for a new coach in about 4 years. Yahoo!! Isn't it cool how we totally screwed up everything that Monty had built? We are back to the very darkest of dark ages.

---

Well the last five games have shown me that one of my fave posters, SCT is really upset. Maybe too upset for his own health. I'm not suggesting that anything you are saying is wrong, just that the frequency and tone of your posting seems like you're rooting for CalmBball to fail Maybe that's your intent, but it didn't seem that way in the past. Maybe it's social media, millenniials, polar politics, environmental degradation, avocado toast, pumpkin spice veggie burgers or one of the other ails of the era.

Go Bears!

---

Should BI bring in a consultant from CAL's School of Public Health?

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If he is a grad transfer who can shoot threes - YES!!!

BeachedBear said:

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bearup said:

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Should BI bring in a consultant from CAL's School of Public Health?

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If he is a grad transfer who can shoot threes - YES!!!

---

LOL

Maybe Grant Mullins has some free time.

South is decent.

BeachedBear said:

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Well the last five games have shown me that one of my fave posters, SCT is really upset. Maybe too upset for his own health. I'm not suggesting that anything you are saying is wrong, just that the frequency and tone of your posting seems like you're rooting for CalmBball to fail Maybe that's your intent, but it didn't seem that way in the past. Maybe it's social media, millenniials, polar politics, environmental degradation, avocado toast, pumpkin spice veggie burgers or one of the other ails of the era.

Go Bears!

---

I wouldn't worry too much about SCT as he has always been quick to get really upset. He's that guy in game threads, that throws in the towel after 10 minutes only to be happy to eat crow when the team pulls it out in the end. He'll be okay.

SCT, feel free to correct me if you believe I am mistaken.

BeachedBear said:

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socaltownie said:

---

Last five games, 1 and 4

A) Fox's tough guy approach is NOT going to work with a team this talent deficient. Great that he is getting them to work but also clear that they do NOT have WCC talent, much less Pac-12

B) I REALLY fear (and you can just look at the body language) that the team is ready to quit on him. They know they are overmatched. They are not happy. Scary thing is that some of them, if they act now, might be eligible for in 2021 for spring semester schools.

C) If he can't recruit (and nothing says he can) we will be looking for a new coach in about 4 years. Yahoo!! Isn't it cool how we totally screwed up everything that Monty had built? We are back to the very darkest of dark ages.

---

Well the last five games have shown me that one of my fave posters, SCT is really upset. Maybe too upset for his own health. I'm not suggesting that anything you are saying is wrong, just that the frequency and tone of your posting seems like you're rooting for CalmBball to fail Maybe that's your intent, but it didn't seem that way in the past. Maybe it's social media, millenniials, polar politics, environmental degradation, avocado toast, pumpkin spice veggie burgers or one of the other ails of the era.

Go Bears!

---

I have to tell you, the penchant for mocking anyone who demonstrates that they care is tiresome. I doubt SCT needs a therapist or relaxation classes over this.

You have 3000 people coming to each game. I'd start worrying about the people that don't care. Right now, this board is starting to look like an old cable access channel or a youtube channel with 72 views. For those of you who know youth sports, it looks like a TeamSnap page for a 10 year old soccer team. "I'm just here to see how Timmy develops. Who has snack duty next game?"

You are rapidly dwindling down to the 10 people who just enjoy going out to the gym and watching the team. Bless them. We need those fans, but you need some other people to care.

We have posts proclaiming that they care more about the journey no matter where it leads, that they go to see guys develop and not results. We have moved from the experience at Haas which has some relevance to threads reviewing the atmosphere at Santa Clara. If I ever get to the point where I care about Santa Clara's facility, and I haven't blown my brains out because I literally have no life, I'm glad to know that they have Coke and hot dogs at the snack bar.

I get being beaten down by the sheer ennui that is Cal basketball and wonder why anyone would spend two seconds caring about it at this point, but we just paid $3M in buyouts and increased the salary of the coach in hopes of getting someone to care. Frankly, when Jones was hired I came to terms with the fact that Cal had decided that the financially wise thing to do was to be the Washington Generals. Was willing to live with that. But don't spend a bunch of money and become the Generals anyway.

The people at Santa Clara were great. Talked to a 30 year season ticket holder who remembered the Ncaa days. Evidently they cut their football stadium in half to convert it into a soccer stadium. Very beautiful campus.My guess is that when it was built it wasn't much of an urban area but rather in the country. The front gate kind of faces El Camino, in a weird way like there wasn't a major road there at one time.

The fans were enthusiastic but not overbearing. I had a chance to read the Santa Clara Review .It was excellent with many interesting and thought provoking articles.

Santa Clara Review is a student-edited literary magazine which publishes poetry, fiction, nonfiction, and visual art. The magazine is published biannually in February and May, drawing on submissions from Santa Clara University students, faculty, and staff, as well as from writers around the nation and globe. The Review is entirely student run by undergraduate students who are actively enrolled. Maybe a leg up on the Daily Cal.

oskidunker said:

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The people at Santa Clara were great. Talked to a 30 year season ticket holder who remembered the Ncaa days. Evidently they cut their football stadium in half to convert it into a soccer stadium. Very beautiful campus.My guess is that when it was built it wasn't much of an urban area but rather in the country. The front gate kind of faces El Camino, in a weird way like there wasn't a major road there at one time.

The fans were enthusiastic but not overbearing. I had a chance to read the Santa Clara Review .It was excellent with many interesting and thought provoking articles.

Santa Clara Review is a student-edited literary magazine which publishes poetry, fiction, nonfiction, and visual art. The magazine is published biannually in February and May, drawing on submissions from Santa Clara University students, faculty, and staff, as well as from writers around the nation and globe. The Review is entirely student run by undergraduate students who are actively enrolled. Maybe a leg up on the Daily Cal.

---

Fascinating.

oskidunker said:

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The people at Santa Clara were great. Talked to a 30 year season ticket holder who remembered the Ncaa days. Evidently they cut their football stadium in half to convert it into a soccer stadium. Very beautiful campus.My guess is that when it was built it wasn't much of an urban area but rather in the country. The front gate kind of faces El Camino, in a weird way like there wasn't a major road there at one time.

The fans were enthusiastic but not overbearing. I had a chance to read the Santa Clara Review .It was excellent with many interesting and thought provoking articles.

Santa Clara Review is a student-edited literary magazine which publishes poetry, fiction, nonfiction, and visual art. The magazine is published biannually in February and May, drawing on submissions from Santa Clara University students, faculty, and staff, as well as from writers around the nation and globe. The Review is entirely student run by undergraduate students who are actively enrolled. Maybe a leg up on the Daily Cal.

---

My son went undergrad and law school there (like my hero Leon Panetta). He loved every day he spent there. I called it The Country Club. I fell in love with the place when I went to summer sports camp there in the 60's. Hoop players Dennis Awtrey and Ralph Ogden were my camp counselors.

socaltownie said:

---

Last five games, 1 and 4

A) Fox's tough guy approach is NOT going to work with a team this talent deficient. Great that he is getting them to work but also clear that they do NOT have WCC talent, much less Pac-12

B) I REALLY fear (and you can just look at the body language) that the team is ready to quit on him. They know they are overmatched. They are not happy. Scary thing is that some of them, if they act now, might be eligible for in 2021 for spring semester schools.

C) If he can't recruit (and nothing says he can) we will be looking for a new coach in about 4 years. Yahoo!! Isn't it cool how we totally screwed up everything that Monty had built? We are back to the very darkest of dark ages.

---

Are you joking a bit? I seem to remember you constantly complaining about Monty! Constantly. Given what has transpired since he left, I think you might reconsider.

dimitrig said:

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Luckily, basketball is the type of sport where one highly rated recruit can turn the whole program around. We need one of those guys right now.

---

Unluckily, those type of recruits rarely go to teams that lose a lot

OaktownBear said:

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I get being beaten down by the sheer ennui that is Cal basketball and wonder why anyone would spend two seconds caring about it at this point, but we just paid $3M in buyouts and increased the salary of the coach in hopes of getting someone to care. Frankly, when Jones was hired I came to terms with the fact that Cal had decided that the financially wise thing to do was to be the Washington Generals. Was willing to live with that. But don't spend a bunch of money and become the Generals anyway.

---

Regardless of how much money you spend on your coach, how many college coaches are going to be able to come into a losing team in the spring and make a marked difference immediately, even if they don't lose three starters to transfers right away?

Long-term, we're not going to be the Generals. I have concerns about hiring Fox and I don't need to reiterate them again and again. But we will get to mediocrity at some point.

We need to hit the transfer portal HARD.

Civil Bear said:

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BeachedBear said:

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Well the last five games have shown me that one of my fave posters, SCT is really upset. Maybe too upset for his own health. I'm not suggesting that anything you are saying is wrong, just that the frequency and tone of your posting seems like you're rooting for CalmBball to fail Maybe that's your intent, but it didn't seem that way in the past. Maybe it's social media, millenniials, polar politics, environmental degradation, avocado toast, pumpkin spice veggie burgers or one of the other ails of the era.

Go Bears!

---

I wouldn't worry too much about SCT as he has always been quick to get really upset. He's that guy in game threads, that throws in the towel after 10 minutes only to be happy to eat crow when the team pulls it out in the end. He'll be okay.

SCT, feel free to correct me if you believe I am mistaken.

---

I was raised by a long time faculty member who, with cal up by 21 with 4 minutes left would turn to me and remind me "It is Cal, they will find a way to blow it."

Sometimes he was right. Love my dad so I am following in his footsteps ;-)

Pigskin Pete said:

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OaktownBear said:

---

I get being beaten down by the sheer ennui that is Cal basketball and wonder why anyone would spend two seconds caring about it at this point, but we just paid $3M in buyouts and increased the salary of the coach in hopes of getting someone to care. Frankly, when Jones was hired I came to terms with the fact that Cal had decided that the financially wise thing to do was to be the Washington Generals. Was willing to live with that. But don't spend a bunch of money and become the Generals anyway.

---

Regardless of how much money you spend on your coach, how many college coaches are going to be able to come into a losing team in the spring and make a marked difference immediately, even if they don't lose three starters to transfers right away?

Long-term, we're not going to be the Generals. I have concerns about hiring Fox and I don't need to reiterate them again and again. But we will get to mediocrity at some point.

We need to hit the transfer portal HARD.

---

THe problem is, as you know, that the administration makes hitting that portal extremely difficult. Ditto grad transfers. That is, probably, my biggest complaint. Fox can coach. I am not sold he is a great recruiter but whatever. But this is an almost impossible rebuild in the current environment.

And yes, if I read one more god damm wall of text about the great Darrell I and how Pete Newell ran a wonderous half court set I will SCREAM ;-)

socaltownie said:

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Pigskin Pete said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

I get being beaten down by the sheer ennui that is Cal basketball and wonder why anyone would spend two seconds caring about it at this point, but we just paid $3M in buyouts and increased the salary of the coach in hopes of getting someone to care. Frankly, when Jones was hired I came to terms with the fact that Cal had decided that the financially wise thing to do was to be the Washington Generals. Was willing to live with that. But don't spend a bunch of money and become the Generals anyway.

---

Regardless of how much money you spend on your coach, how many college coaches are going to be able to come into a losing team in the spring and make a marked difference immediately, even if they don't lose three starters to transfers right away?

Long-term, we're not going to be the Generals. I have concerns about hiring Fox and I don't need to reiterate them again and again. But we will get to mediocrity at some point.

We need to hit the transfer portal HARD.

---

THe problem is, as you know, that the administration makes hitting that portal extremely difficult. Ditto grad transfers. That is, probably, my biggest complaint. Fox can coach. I am not sold he is a great recruiter but whatever. But this is an almost impossible rebuild in the current environment.

And yes, if I read one more god damm wall of text about the great Darrell I and how Pete Newell ran a wonderous half court set I will SCREAM ;-)

---

My criticism has been primarily for Knowlton, not Fox. My issue is that with Cal having a deficient roster over the past 2 years due to defections, and just starting to have some stability there, we needed to maintain what we had and recruit more. We were not in a position where we had the talent and it was just poorly coached. (though what we had was poorly coached) Fox is a solid coach who is not a recruiter. As I said elsewhere, I don't know that I think it is fair to Fox to expect him to EVER turn this program around. But hiring a guy that excels in coaching more than recruiting is not understanding your situation.

Uthaithani said:

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Basically all I can surmise at this point is that the talent Fox scraped up at the last minute is playing exactly like it was scraped up at the last minute.

That doesn't speak much to his recruiting abilities, unless we now expect a coach to cobble together superior talent at the last minute after all the good players have signed elsewhere. It just says that the cupboard is in fact as bare as we feared it was.

I'll admit my cautious lowered pessimism has waned a bit, but other than that this season is going right about as expected. Which is to say, really really bad.

Will Fox be able to find better recruits than these players? Yes. Certainly. Will it be enough to get this team from "really bad" to "mediocre" or even "good?" Not anytime soon, but maybe.

---

Fox actually did pretty well in scraping up talent at the last minute, as far as I can see, compared to some other Cal coaches. Ben Braun got Sean Jackson and several walkons. Montgomery got a 4-star bust in DJ Seeley (handed off to him by Braun), and lucked out with an unranked (or 3-star, depending on who you talk to), in Jorge. Cuonzo landed Kingsley and Chauca. As for Wyking, Cuonzo handed him commits Sueing, Anticevich, and JHD, but on his own, Wyking landed McNeill, Winston, and McCullogh, and Erving.

SFCityBear said:

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Uthaithani said:

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Basically all I can surmise at this point is that the talent Fox scraped up at the last minute is playing exactly like it was scraped up at the last minute.

That doesn't speak much to his recruiting abilities, unless we now expect a coach to cobble together superior talent at the last minute after all the good players have signed elsewhere. It just says that the cupboard is in fact as bare as we feared it was.

I'll admit my cautious lowered pessimism has waned a bit, but other than that this season is going right about as expected. Which is to say, really really bad.

Will Fox be able to find better recruits than these players? Yes. Certainly. Will it be enough to get this team from "really bad" to "mediocre" or even "good?" Not anytime soon, but maybe.

---

Fox actually did pretty well in scraping up talent at the last minute, as far as I can see, compared to some other Cal coaches. Ben Braun got Sean Jackson and several walkons. Montgomery got a 4-star bust in DJ Seeley (handed off to him by Braun), and lucked out with an unranked (or 3-star, depending on who you talk to), in Jorge. Cuonzo landed Kingsley and Chauca. As for Wyking, Cuonzo handed him commits Sueing, Anticevich, and JHD, but on his own, Wyking landed McNeill, Winston, and McCullogh, and Erving.

---

I have explained this to you before and you persist. Todd Bozeman signed Sean Jackson. Bozeman was fired in late August.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-08-29-sp-38566-story.html

Braun was hired in mid September.

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Cal-s-New-Coach-Ben-Braun-Appointee-had-2966491.php

Braun had nothing to do with that recruiting class. Unless you think he should have recruited players 3 weeks after the semester had started.

One thing the others did not do was give out several scholarships instead of keeping a few held back on the notion that you might be able to get better recruits later on.

OaktownBear said:

---

SFCityBear said:

---

Uthaithani said:

---

Basically all I can surmise at this point is that the talent Fox scraped up at the last minute is playing exactly like it was scraped up at the last minute.

That doesn't speak much to his recruiting abilities, unless we now expect a coach to cobble together superior talent at the last minute after all the good players have signed elsewhere. It just says that the cupboard is in fact as bare as we feared it was.

I'll admit my cautious lowered pessimism has waned a bit, but other than that this season is going right about as expected. Which is to say, really really bad.

Will Fox be able to find better recruits than these players? Yes. Certainly. Will it be enough to get this team from "really bad" to "mediocre" or even "good?" Not anytime soon, but maybe.

---

Fox actually did pretty well in scraping up talent at the last minute, as far as I can see, compared to some other Cal coaches. Ben Braun got Sean Jackson and several walkons. Montgomery got a 4-star bust in DJ Seeley (handed off to him by Braun), and lucked out with an unranked (or 3-star, depending on who you talk to), in Jorge. Cuonzo landed Kingsley and Chauca. As for Wyking, Cuonzo handed him commits Sueing, Anticevich, and JHD, but on his own, Wyking landed McNeill, Winston, and McCullogh, and Erving.

---

I have explained this to you before and you persist. Todd Bozeman signed Sean Jackson. Bozeman was fired in late August.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-08-29-sp-38566-story.html

Braun was hired in mid September.

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Cal-s-New-Coach-Ben-Braun-Appointee-had-2966491.php

Braun had nothing to do with that recruiting class. Unless you think he should have recruited players 3 weeks after the semester had started.

One thing the others did not do was give out several scholarships instead of keeping a few held back on the notion that you might be able to get better recruits later on.

---

You're right, by golly. I had forgotten the time you took me to task over Jackson's history at Cal. I salute your memory, wish mine was as good, and I sincerely apologize for you having to waste time looking up your citations a second time. My senior moments are more frequent now, so expect some more, hopefully not too many, with my apologies in advance.

Good point about wasting scholarships. I think some of the scholarships the other coaches gave out which I mentioned were wasted, even though they did not give out the full complement. I thank them for holding some back, even if it may not have been profitable in the end. I can't be that critical of Fox's players yet, for the reasons I pointed out. I am not knowledgeable enough to be able to judge recruits in a handful of games, or in Thorpe's and Kuany's cases, a handful of minutes. I did see Winston and McCullogh early, and was pretty sure they were not D1 caliber, and said so at the time. Same goes for my early feelings about Chauca. I don't have any such feelings yet about anyone in Fox's recruiting class.

SFCityBear said:

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Good point about wasting scholarships. I think some of the scholarships the other coaches gave out which I mentioned were wasted, even though they did not give out the full complement. I thank them for holding some back, even if it may not have been profitable in the end. I can't be that critical of Fox's players yet, for the reasons I pointed out. I am not knowledgeable enough to be able to judge recruits in a handful of games, or in Thorpe's and Kuany's cases, a handful of minutes. I did see Winston and McCullogh early, and was pretty sure they were not D1 caliber, and said so at the time. Same goes for my early feelings about Chauca.

---

I'd add Frid, Johnson, and Rodriguez from 2012.

Quote:

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I don't have any such feelings yet about anyone in Fox's recruiting class.

---

I agree - as far as I can tell everybody has shown something, whether on video or at Cal.

OaktownBear said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

Pigskin Pete said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

I get being beaten down by the sheer ennui that is Cal basketball and wonder why anyone would spend two seconds caring about it at this point, but we just paid $3M in buyouts and increased the salary of the coach in hopes of getting someone to care. Frankly, when Jones was hired I came to terms with the fact that Cal had decided that the financially wise thing to do was to be the Washington Generals. Was willing to live with that. But don't spend a bunch of money and become the Generals anyway.

---

Regardless of how much money you spend on your coach, how many college coaches are going to be able to come into a losing team in the spring and make a marked difference immediately, even if they don't lose three starters to transfers right away?

Long-term, we're not going to be the Generals. I have concerns about hiring Fox and I don't need to reiterate them again and again. But we will get to mediocrity at some point.

We need to hit the transfer portal HARD.

---

THe problem is, as you know, that the administration makes hitting that portal extremely difficult. Ditto grad transfers. That is, probably, my biggest complaint. Fox can coach. I am not sold he is a great recruiter but whatever. But this is an almost impossible rebuild in the current environment.

And yes, if I read one more god damm wall of text about the great Darrell I and how Pete Newell ran a wonderous half court set I will SCREAM ;-)

---

My criticism has been primarily for Knowlton, not Fox. My issue is that with Cal having a deficient roster over the past 2 years due to defections, and just starting to have some stability there, we needed to maintain what we had and recruit more. We were not in a position where we had talent that was poorly coached. Fox is a solid coach who is not a recruiter. As I said elsewhere, I don't know that I think it is fair to Fox to expect him to EVER turn this program around. But hiring a guy that excels in coaching more than recruiting is not understanding your situation.

---

Great, great post. I don't blame Fox at all. Cal was a better job than he would have gotten otherwise. $1.5 million a year? Of course he takes it.

Knowlton may be one of the worst AD hires in Cal history and that is saying something.

stu said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Good point about wasting scholarships. I think some of the scholarships the other coaches gave out which I mentioned were wasted, even though they did not give out the full complement. I thank them for holding some back, even if it may not have been profitable in the end. I can't be that critical of Fox's players yet, for the reasons I pointed out. I am not knowledgeable enough to be able to judge recruits in a handful of games, or in Thorpe's and Kuany's cases, a handful of minutes. I did see Winston and McCullogh early, and was pretty sure they were not D1 caliber, and said so at the time. Same goes for my early feelings about Chauca.

---

I'd add Frid, Johnson, and Rodriguez from 2012.

Quote:

---

I don't have any such feelings yet about anyone in Fox's recruiting class.

---

I agree - as far as I can tell everybody has shown something, whether on video or at Cal.

---

Frid was a walkon. That is completely different from the scholarships given to Rodriguez, Johnson, Bak Bak, Amoke etc. We should take 7 foot walkon projects all day long. Frid is currently playing professionally in Israel, btw.

Winning cures a LOT of this. But you gotta do it over a sustained period of time and not lay eggs. SDSU is a PRIME example of that - a program (god it hurts to type that) which is SIGNIFICANTLY ahead of every other california program.

Maybe that is another in the long lists of Bear faults - that unlike a lot of schools (SDSU, Wazzu, UCLA) this administration would NEVER roll the dice with a guy who had gotten sanctioned (Steve F) or who was rough around edges (Leach) but who could clearly coach. Never would have happened at a place like Cal.