socaltownie said:

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Winning cures a LOT of this. But you gotta do it over a sustained period of time and not lay eggs. SDSU is a PRIME example of that - a program (god it hurts to type that) which is SIGNIFICANTLY ahead of every other california program.

Maybe that is another in the long lists of Bear faults - that unlike a lot of schools (SDSU, Wazzu, UCLA) this administration would NEVER roll the dice with a guy who had gotten sanctioned (Steve F) or who was rough around edges (Leach) but who could clearly coach. Never would have happened at a place like Cal.

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BeachedBear said:

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OaktownBear said:

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BeachedBear said:

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socaltownie said:

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Last five games, 1 and 4

A) Fox's tough guy approach is NOT going to work with a team this talent deficient. Great that he is getting them to work but also clear that they do NOT have WCC talent, much less Pac-12

B) I REALLY fear (and you can just look at the body language) that the team is ready to quit on him. They know they are overmatched. They are not happy. Scary thing is that some of them, if they act now, might be eligible for in 2021 for spring semester schools.

C) If he can't recruit (and nothing says he can) we will be looking for a new coach in about 4 years. Yahoo!! Isn't it cool how we totally screwed up everything that Monty had built? We are back to the very darkest of dark ages.

---

Well the last five games have shown me that one of my fave posters, SCT is really upset. Maybe too upset for his own health. I'm not suggesting that anything you are saying is wrong, just that the frequency and tone of your posting seems like you're rooting for CalmBball to fail Maybe that's your intent, but it didn't seem that way in the past. Maybe it's social media, millenniials, polar politics, environmental degradation, avocado toast, pumpkin spice veggie burgers or one of the other ails of the era.

Go Bears!

---

I have to tell you, the penchant for mocking anyone who demonstrates that they care is tiresome. I doubt SCT needs a therapist or relaxation classes over this.

You have 3000 people coming to each game. I'd start worrying about the people that don't care. Right now, this board is starting to look like an old cable access channel or a youtube channel with 72 views. For those of you who know youth sports, it looks like a TeamSnap page for a 10 year old soccer team. "I'm just here to see how Timmy develops. Who has snack duty next game?"

You are rapidly dwindling down to the 10 people who just enjoy going out to the gym and watching the team. Bless them. We need those fans, but you need some other people to care.

We have posts proclaiming that they care more about the journey no matter where it leads, that they go to see guys develop and not results. We have moved from the experience at Haas which has some relevance to threads reviewing the atmosphere at Santa Clara. If I ever get to the point where I care about Santa Clara's facility, and I haven't blown my brains out because I literally have no life, I'm glad to know that they have Coke and hot dogs at the snack bar.

I get being beaten down by the sheer ennui that is Cal basketball and wonder why anyone would spend two seconds caring about it at this point, but we just paid $3M in buyouts and increased the salary of the coach in hopes of getting someone to care. Frankly, when Jones was hired I came to terms with the fact that Cal had decided that the financially wise thing to do was to be the Washington Generals. Was willing to live with that. But don't spend a bunch of money and become the Generals anyway.

---

Oaktown - I'm OK with you misrepresenting my post to make your point. Because I agree with most of what you cover in yours. The overall fan base is lost. It has been since Jaylen Brown left. Cuonzo's last season showed a sharp decline in fan support, even with Ivan still on board. However, if you think that BI is a fair representation of the fan base - you really need to read the room and get out more. The self selection alone should make it clear. By that, I mean it is actually much worse than reflected on BI.

But if 8 of the 10 remaining BI posters are now the target of your misplaced scorn - what will become of BI???

---

BeachedBear said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

Winning cures a LOT of this. But you gotta do it over a sustained period of time and not lay eggs. SDSU is a PRIME example of that - a program (god it hurts to type that) which is SIGNIFICANTLY ahead of every other california program.

Maybe that is another in the long lists of Bear faults - that unlike a lot of schools (SDSU, Wazzu, UCLA) this administration would NEVER roll the dice with a guy who had gotten sanctioned (Steve F) or who was rough around edges (Leach) but who could clearly coach. Never would have happened at a place like Cal.

---

My daughter recently graduated from SDSU and they truly are far ahead of Cal in so many institutional ways. I have to share my recent experiences with both de la Torre (SDSU Pres) and Christ. De La Torre was engaging, made light of the fact that a Cal alum sent his daughter to SDSU (like I had a choice) and talked about the future. First time I met Christ, I had to point out she was wearing a RED coat . . . ON CAMPUS. She talked about the past and that the future was challenging and uncertain.

---

OaktownBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

Last five games, 1 and 4

A) Fox's tough guy approach is NOT going to work with a team this talent deficient. Great that he is getting them to work but also clear that they do NOT have WCC talent, much less Pac-12

B) I REALLY fear (and you can just look at the body language) that the team is ready to quit on him. They know they are overmatched. They are not happy. Scary thing is that some of them, if they act now, might be eligible for in 2021 for spring semester schools.

C) If he can't recruit (and nothing says he can) we will be looking for a new coach in about 4 years. Yahoo!! Isn't it cool how we totally screwed up everything that Monty had built? We are back to the very darkest of dark ages.

---

Well the last five games have shown me that one of my fave posters, SCT is really upset. Maybe too upset for his own health. I'm not suggesting that anything you are saying is wrong, just that the frequency and tone of your posting seems like you're rooting for CalmBball to fail Maybe that's your intent, but it didn't seem that way in the past. Maybe it's social media, millenniials, polar politics, environmental degradation, avocado toast, pumpkin spice veggie burgers or one of the other ails of the era.

Go Bears!

---

I have to tell you, the penchant for mocking anyone who demonstrates that they care is tiresome. I doubt SCT needs a therapist or relaxation classes over this.

You have 3000 people coming to each game. I'd start worrying about the people that don't care. Right now, this board is starting to look like an old cable access channel or a youtube channel with 72 views. For those of you who know youth sports, it looks like a TeamSnap page for a 10 year old soccer team. "I'm just here to see how Timmy develops. Who has snack duty next game?"

You are rapidly dwindling down to the 10 people who just enjoy going out to the gym and watching the team. Bless them. We need those fans, but you need some other people to care.

We have posts proclaiming that they care more about the journey no matter where it leads, that they go to see guys develop and not results. We have moved from the experience at Haas which has some relevance to threads reviewing the atmosphere at Santa Clara. If I ever get to the point where I care about Santa Clara's facility, and I haven't blown my brains out because I literally have no life, I'm glad to know that they have Coke and hot dogs at the snack bar.

I get being beaten down by the sheer ennui that is Cal basketball and wonder why anyone would spend two seconds caring about it at this point, but we just paid $3M in buyouts and increased the salary of the coach in hopes of getting someone to care. Frankly, when Jones was hired I came to terms with the fact that Cal had decided that the financially wise thing to do was to be the Washington Generals. Was willing to live with that. But don't spend a bunch of money and become the Generals anyway.

---

Oaktown - I'm OK with you misrepresenting my post to make your point. Because I agree with most of what you cover in yours. The overall fan base is lost. It has been since Jaylen Brown left. Cuonzo's last season showed a sharp decline in fan support, even with Ivan still on board. However, if you think that BI is a fair representation of the fan base - you really need to read the room and get out more. The self selection alone should make it clear. By that, I mean it is actually much worse than reflected on BI.

But if 8 of the 10 remaining BI posters are now the target of your misplaced scorn - what will become of BI???

---

Beached - I like you. I didn't like your post. I get you were trying to be funny. I'm sorry, but it seems like the very few people who are willing to care enough to actually criticize the program get mocked for caring and we don't need any more of that.

I would almost argue that socaltownie is the only passionate poster left on this board actually watching and talking about basketball. Hoop brings a lot of analysis, but it is much more clinical and though I know he cares a lot about Cal, if I just went from his posting you could convince me he is a neutral observer.

Calling a poster upset and saying he is too upset for his health is really a put down of the logic of his arguments. I don't think socal has presented illogical arguments. I also really have to take issue with your comment that he seems to want Cal to fail - I don't see where you are getting that at all. I'm just glad someone cares enough to be upset.

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socaltownie said:

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Sadly I doubt NorCal is in the cards for retirement. I want to be in the mountains too much, enjoying some skiing while my knees allow, taking up fly fishing and laughing HYSTERICALLY about how my failed efforts for 30 years in increase housing supply have left me a very wealthy equity migrant. Go CEQA - keep that supply very very low ;-)

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socaltownie said:

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Winning cures a LOT of this. But you gotta do it over a sustained period of time and not lay eggs. SDSU is a PRIME example of that - a program (god it hurts to type that) which is SIGNIFICANTLY ahead of every other california program.

Maybe that is another in the long lists of Bear faults - that unlike a lot of schools (SDSU, Wazzu, UCLA) this administration would NEVER roll the dice with a guy who had gotten sanctioned (Steve F) or who was rough around edges (Leach) but who could clearly coach. Never would have happened at a place like Cal.

---

OaktownBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

OaktownBear said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

Last five games, 1 and 4

A) Fox's tough guy approach is NOT going to work with a team this talent deficient. Great that he is getting them to work but also clear that they do NOT have WCC talent, much less Pac-12

B) I REALLY fear (and you can just look at the body language) that the team is ready to quit on him. They know they are overmatched. They are not happy. Scary thing is that some of them, if they act now, might be eligible for in 2021 for spring semester schools.

C) If he can't recruit (and nothing says he can) we will be looking for a new coach in about 4 years. Yahoo!! Isn't it cool how we totally screwed up everything that Monty had built? We are back to the very darkest of dark ages.

---

Well the last five games have shown me that one of my fave posters, SCT is really upset. Maybe too upset for his own health. I'm not suggesting that anything you are saying is wrong, just that the frequency and tone of your posting seems like you're rooting for CalmBball to fail Maybe that's your intent, but it didn't seem that way in the past. Maybe it's social media, millenniials, polar politics, environmental degradation, avocado toast, pumpkin spice veggie burgers or one of the other ails of the era.

Go Bears!

---

I have to tell you, the penchant for mocking anyone who demonstrates that they care is tiresome. I doubt SCT needs a therapist or relaxation classes over this.

You have 3000 people coming to each game. I'd start worrying about the people that don't care. Right now, this board is starting to look like an old cable access channel or a youtube channel with 72 views. For those of you who know youth sports, it looks like a TeamSnap page for a 10 year old soccer team. "I'm just here to see how Timmy develops. Who has snack duty next game?"

You are rapidly dwindling down to the 10 people who just enjoy going out to the gym and watching the team. Bless them. We need those fans, but you need some other people to care.

We have posts proclaiming that they care more about the journey no matter where it leads, that they go to see guys develop and not results. We have moved from the experience at Haas which has some relevance to threads reviewing the atmosphere at Santa Clara. If I ever get to the point where I care about Santa Clara's facility, and I haven't blown my brains out because I literally have no life, I'm glad to know that they have Coke and hot dogs at the snack bar.

I get being beaten down by the sheer ennui that is Cal basketball and wonder why anyone would spend two seconds caring about it at this point, but we just paid $3M in buyouts and increased the salary of the coach in hopes of getting someone to care. Frankly, when Jones was hired I came to terms with the fact that Cal had decided that the financially wise thing to do was to be the Washington Generals. Was willing to live with that. But don't spend a bunch of money and become the Generals anyway.

---

Oaktown - I'm OK with you misrepresenting my post to make your point. Because I agree with most of what you cover in yours. The overall fan base is lost. It has been since Jaylen Brown left. Cuonzo's last season showed a sharp decline in fan support, even with Ivan still on board. However, if you think that BI is a fair representation of the fan base - you really need to read the room and get out more. The self selection alone should make it clear. By that, I mean it is actually much worse than reflected on BI.

But if 8 of the 10 remaining BI posters are now the target of your misplaced scorn - what will become of BI???

---

Beached - I like you. I didn't like your post. I get you were trying to be funny. I'm sorry, but it seems like the very few people who are willing to care enough to actually criticize the program get mocked for caring and we don't need any more of that.

I would almost argue that socaltownie is the only passionate poster left on this board actually watching and talking about basketball. Hoop brings a lot of analysis, but it is much more clinical and though I know he cares a lot about Cal, if I just went from his posting you could convince me he is a neutral observer.

Calling a poster upset and saying he is too upset for his health is really a put down of the logic of his arguments. I don't think socal has presented illogical arguments. I also really have to take issue with your comment that he seems to want Cal to fail - I don't see where you are getting that at all. I'm just glad someone cares enough to be upset.

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bluesaxe said:

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socaltownie said:

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Winning cures a LOT of this. But you gotta do it over a sustained period of time and not lay eggs. SDSU is a PRIME example of that - a program (god it hurts to type that) which is SIGNIFICANTLY ahead of every other california program.

Maybe that is another in the long lists of Bear faults - that unlike a lot of schools (SDSU, Wazzu, UCLA) this administration would NEVER roll the dice with a guy who had gotten sanctioned (Steve F) or who was rough around edges (Leach) but who could clearly coach. Never would have happened at a place like Cal.

---

I'm not bothered by the idea of avoiding coaches who were sanctioned for anything serious. I'm bothered by the apparent, and continuing, inability of the AD to identify coaching talent and the reliance on consultants to identify coaches. The hasty, last-minute scrambling nature of the last hire is just one example. Any decent AD ought to have a list of targets at all times, and preferably the contacts and ability to identify up and coming coaches with energy and recruiting chops as well as Xs and Os skills. When's the last time we had an AD who you believed was that prepared?

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socaltownie said:

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Civil Bear said:

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BeachedBear said:

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Well the last five games have shown me that one of my fave posters, SCT is really upset. Maybe too upset for his own health. I'm not suggesting that anything you are saying is wrong, just that the frequency and tone of your posting seems like you're rooting for CalmBball to fail Maybe that's your intent, but it didn't seem that way in the past. Maybe it's social media, millenniials, polar politics, environmental degradation, avocado toast, pumpkin spice veggie burgers or one of the other ails of the era.

Go Bears!

---

I wouldn't worry too much about SCT as he has always been quick to get really upset. He's that guy in game threads, that throws in the towel after 10 minutes only to be happy to eat crow when the team pulls it out in the end. He'll be okay.

SCT, feel free to correct me if you believe I am mistaken.

---

I was raised by a long time faculty member who, with cal up by 21 with 4 minutes left would turn to me and remind me "It is Cal, they will find a way to blow it."

Sometimes he was right. Love my dad so I am following in his footsteps ;-)

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Jeff82 said:

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I think it depends what you mean by a good recruiter. Cuonzo was a good recruiter, until he realized that a lot of the guys he was targeting couldn't get through admissions, at which point he bailed for greener pastures. The 20/20 hindsight truth is that the five-year Martin/Jones regime was a giant detour that basically did nothing in the long run to advance the Cal basketball program. We're basically back to the Monty-type approach, which in my opinion is the only hope for even getting a decent program, given the institutional headwinds that exist. IMHO, we should have just elevated Travis Decuire, to at least stay on the same path, and hope that as a younger coach, he would be more energetic in recruiting than Monty. To go in an entirely different direction was, in retrospect, a huge mistake. The Martin/Jones coaching style, which is basically to just thrown the ball out and hope your guys can out-athletic their guys, was never going to work at Cal in the long run.

As for this year's team, to be consistent, I'm happy that at least they're trying to execute a game plan that Fox is giving them. Unfortunately, we often don't have the talent to actually execute it effectively, which means it's basically still lipstick on a pig. But that's still better than what we had under Jones, which was a pig au naturel.

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HoopDreams said:

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Pessimism have a good chance of making a less happy person

socaltownie said:

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Civil Bear said:

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BeachedBear said:

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Well the last five games have shown me that one of my fave posters, SCT is really upset. Maybe too upset for his own health. I'm not suggesting that anything you are saying is wrong, just that the frequency and tone of your posting seems like you're rooting for CalmBball to fail Maybe that's your intent, but it didn't seem that way in the past. Maybe it's social media, millenniials, polar politics, environmental degradation, avocado toast, pumpkin spice veggie burgers or one of the other ails of the era.

Go Bears!

---

I wouldn't worry too much about SCT as he has always been quick to get really upset. He's that guy in game threads, that throws in the towel after 10 minutes only to be happy to eat crow when the team pulls it out in the end. He'll be okay.

SCT, feel free to correct me if you believe I am mistaken.

---

I was raised by a long time faculty member who, with cal up by 21 with 4 minutes left would turn to me and remind me "It is Cal, they will find a way to blow it."

Sometimes he was right. Love my dad so I am following in his footsteps ;-)

---

---

BeachedBear said:

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socaltownie said:

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Winning cures a LOT of this. But you gotta do it over a sustained period of time and not lay eggs. SDSU is a PRIME example of that - a program (god it hurts to type that) which is SIGNIFICANTLY ahead of every other california program.

Maybe that is another in the long lists of Bear faults - that unlike a lot of schools (SDSU, Wazzu, UCLA) this administration would NEVER roll the dice with a guy who had gotten sanctioned (Steve F) or who was rough around edges (Leach) but who could clearly coach. Never would have happened at a place like Cal.

---

My daughter recently graduated from SDSU and they truly are far ahead of Cal in so many institutional ways. I have to share my recent experiences with both de la Torre (SDSU Pres) and Christ. De La Torre was engaging, made light of the fact that a Cal alum sent his daughter to SDSU (like I had a choice) and talked about the future. First time I met Christ, I had to point out she was wearing a RED coat . . . ON CAMPUS. She talked about the past and that the future was challenging and uncertain.

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UrsaMajor said:

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BeachedBear said:

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socaltownie said:

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Winning cures a LOT of this. But you gotta do it over a sustained period of time and not lay eggs. SDSU is a PRIME example of that - a program (god it hurts to type that) which is SIGNIFICANTLY ahead of every other california program.

Maybe that is another in the long lists of Bear faults - that unlike a lot of schools (SDSU, Wazzu, UCLA) this administration would NEVER roll the dice with a guy who had gotten sanctioned (Steve F) or who was rough around edges (Leach) but who could clearly coach. Never would have happened at a place like Cal.

---

My daughter recently graduated from SDSU and they truly are far ahead of Cal in so many institutional ways. I have to share my recent experiences with both de la Torre (SDSU Pres) and Christ. De La Torre was engaging, made light of the fact that a Cal alum sent his daughter to SDSU (like I had a choice) and talked about the future. First time I met Christ, I had to point out she was wearing a RED coat . . . ON CAMPUS. She talked about the past and that the future was challenging and uncertain.

---

I admit that I know nothing about SDSU or de la Torre, but I think your comments about Chancellor Christ are off base (although I acknowledge that you might have had a bad personal experience with her). Christ is acknowledged by just about everyone associated with Cal as the best Chancellor AT LEAST since Chaing-Lin Tien. She inherited a $150 million deficit, and wipe it out in just over 2 years. She has increased fundraising by about 25% per year (with some major gifts coming in but not yet announced). She has rationalized the IA budget by taking much of the stadium debt off the IA books. She has gone a long way toward a rapprochement between IA and the faculty (the latter is now on board for an annual $19 million campus to IA contribution). She has started several important building projects both for classroom space and housing (including Peoples Park). She has revamped the Title IX office so that handling sexual harassment cases is going much more quickly. I could go on,, but I won't.

Now if the only criteria for a Chancellor are 1. the clothes she wears (by the way, now she's all in blue and gold) and 2. the success of the basketball team, then perhaps she's not as successful as others think.

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Good point about wasting scholarships. I think some of the scholarships the other coaches gave out which I mentioned were wasted, even though they did not give out the full complement. I thank them for holding some back, even if it may not have been profitable in the end. I can't be that critical of Fox's players yet, for the reasons I pointed out. I am not knowledgeable enough to be able to judge recruits in a handful of games, or in Thorpe's and Kuany's cases, a handful of minutes. I did see Winston and McCullogh early, and was pretty sure they were not D1 caliber, and said so at the time. Same goes for my early feelings about Chauca.

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I'd add Frid, Johnson, and Rodriguez from 2012.

Quote:

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I don't have any such feelings yet about anyone in Fox's recruiting class.

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I agree - as far as I can tell everybody has shown something, whether on video or at Cal.

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Frid was a walkon. That is completely different from the scholarships given to Rodriguez, Johnson, Bak Bak, Amoke etc. We should take 7 foot walkon projects all day long. Frid is currently playing professionally in Israel, btw.

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Good point about wasting scholarships. I think some of the scholarships the other coaches gave out which I mentioned were wasted, even though they did not give out the full complement. I thank them for holding some back, even if it may not have been profitable in the end. I can't be that critical of Fox's players yet, for the reasons I pointed out. I am not knowledgeable enough to be able to judge recruits in a handful of games, or in Thorpe's and Kuany's cases, a handful of minutes. I did see Winston and McCullogh early, and was pretty sure they were not D1 caliber, and said so at the time. Same goes for my early feelings about Chauca.

---

I'd add Frid, Johnson, and Rodriguez from 2012.

Quote:

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I don't have any such feelings yet about anyone in Fox's recruiting class.

---

I agree - as far as I can tell everybody has shown something, whether on video or at Cal.

---

Frid was a walkon. That is completely different from the scholarships given to Rodriguez, Johnson, Bak Bak, Amoke etc. We should take 7 foot walkon projects all day long. Frid is currently playing professionally in Israel, btw.

---

You're right that Frid was completely different from the scholarship players. He actually wasn't even a walk-on. He enrolled at Cal and practiced with the team or on his own, but never made the roster. He left and played a year for Northern Arizona, playing in 11 games, and averaging 3 minutes. I agree that Johnson and Rodriguez never looked good enough to warrant a scholarship. I felt for Amoke in the beginning, as he had to sit out a year with a heart ailment or ciirculation disorder. Amoke was a good rebounder and decent defender, and was very skilled in tipping in missed shots from teammates. Almost a lost art. He had uncanny timing. Unfortunately his range ended one foot from the basket. He did start 14 games in 2010, and helped Cal to the PAC10 conference title, and then ruined his Cal career by being very immature and stealing laptops, I believe.

I agree that the way Bak Bak looked early on, he should not have warranted a schollie either, very unathletic and unskilled. As the years went by, he did develop a jump shot, and he usually made it, from one spot on the baseline, about a 12 footer. Monty used to put him in games, run the one play, get a bucket, and take him out. Almost automatic. My favorite Bak moment was as a senior, when Brock Motum was tearing up the PAC10, and when Cal played WSU, Motum was being touted by some as one of the favorites for the PAC10 player of the year award. In the first half, Brock was scoring at will, Montgomery tried everyone in the rotation to guard him, to no avail. Monty put Bak in to guard Motum, and he completely shut Motum down for enough of the 2nd half to allow Cal to win the game. And I never heard anyone mention Motum for the PAC10 Player of the Year Award after that. Coaching can make a difference, sometimes even in the most hopeless-looking of cases.

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Good point about wasting scholarships. I think some of the scholarships the other coaches gave out which I mentioned were wasted, even though they did not give out the full complement. I thank them for holding some back, even if it may not have been profitable in the end. I can't be that critical of Fox's players yet, for the reasons I pointed out. I am not knowledgeable enough to be able to judge recruits in a handful of games, or in Thorpe's and Kuany's cases, a handful of minutes. I did see Winston and McCullogh early, and was pretty sure they were not D1 caliber, and said so at the time. Same goes for my early feelings about Chauca.

---

I'd add Frid, Johnson, and Rodriguez from 2012.

Quote:

---

I don't have any such feelings yet about anyone in Fox's recruiting class.

---

I agree - as far as I can tell everybody has shown something, whether on video or at Cal.

---

Frid was a walkon. That is completely different from the scholarships given to Rodriguez, Johnson, Bak Bak, Amoke etc. We should take 7 foot walkon projects all day long. Frid is currently playing professionally in Israel, btw.

---

You're right that Frid was completely different from the scholarship players. He actually wasn't even a walk-on. He enrolled at Cal and practiced with the team or on his own, but never made the roster. He left and played a year for Northern Arizona, playing in 11 games, and averaging 3 minutes. I agree that Johnson and Rodriguez never looked good enough to warrant a scholarship. I felt for Amoke in the beginning, as he had to sit out a year with a heart ailment or ciirculation disorder. Amoke was a good rebounder and decent defender, and was very skilled in tipping in missed shots from teammates. Almost a lost art. He had uncanny timing. Unfortunately his range ended one foot from the basket. He did start 14 games in 2010, and helped Cal to the PAC10 conference title, and then ruined his Cal career by being very immature and stealing laptops, I believe.

I agree that the way Bak Bak looked early on, he should not have warranted a schollie either, very unathletic and unskilled. As the years went by, he did develop a jump shot, and he usually made it, from one spot on the baseline, about a 12 footer. Monty used to put him in games, run the one play, get a bucket, and take him out. Almost automatic. My favorite Bak moment was as a senior, when Brock Motum was tearing up the PAC10, and when Cal played WSU, Motum was being touted by some as one of the favorites for the PAC10 player of the year award. In the first half, Brock was scoring at will, Montgomery tried everyone in the rotation to guard him, to no avail. Monty put Bak in to guard Motum, and he completely shut Motum down for enough of the 2nd half to allow Cal to win the game. And I never heard anyone mention Motum for the PAC10 Player of the Year Award after that. Coaching can make a difference, sometimes even in the most hopeless-looking of cases.

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I'm pretty sure Frid was on the roster:
https://calbears.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/geoffrey-frid/7356

He played for CSULA and made All-League. Here is his highlight video:

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socaltownie said:

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Civil Bear said:

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BeachedBear said:

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Well the last five games have shown me that one of my fave posters, SCT is really upset. Maybe too upset for his own health. I'm not suggesting that anything you are saying is wrong, just that the frequency and tone of your posting seems like you're rooting for CalmBball to fail Maybe that's your intent, but it didn't seem that way in the past. Maybe it's social media, millenniials, polar politics, environmental degradation, avocado toast, pumpkin spice veggie burgers or one of the other ails of the era.

Go Bears!

---

I wouldn't worry too much about SCT as he has always been quick to get really upset. He's that guy in game threads, that throws in the towel after 10 minutes only to be happy to eat crow when the team pulls it out in the end. He'll be okay.

SCT, feel free to correct me if you believe I am mistaken.

---

I was raised by a long time faculty member who, with cal up by 21 with 4 minutes left would turn to me and remind me "It is Cal, they will find a way to blow it."

Sometimes he was right. Love my dad so I am following in his footsteps ;-)

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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stu said:

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SFCityBear said:

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Good point about wasting scholarships. I think some of the scholarships the other coaches gave out which I mentioned were wasted, even though they did not give out the full complement. I thank them for holding some back, even if it may not have been profitable in the end. I can't be that critical of Fox's players yet, for the reasons I pointed out. I am not knowledgeable enough to be able to judge recruits in a handful of games, or in Thorpe's and Kuany's cases, a handful of minutes. I did see Winston and McCullogh early, and was pretty sure they were not D1 caliber, and said so at the time. Same goes for my early feelings about Chauca.

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I'd add Frid, Johnson, and Rodriguez from 2012.

Quote:

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I don't have any such feelings yet about anyone in Fox's recruiting class.

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I agree - as far as I can tell everybody has shown something, whether on video or at Cal.

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Frid was a walkon. That is completely different from the scholarships given to Rodriguez, Johnson, Bak Bak, Amoke etc. We should take 7 foot walkon projects all day long. Frid is currently playing professionally in Israel, btw.

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You're right that Frid was completely different from the scholarship players. He actually wasn't even a walk-on. He enrolled at Cal and practiced with the team or on his own, but never made the roster. He left and played a year for Northern Arizona, playing in 11 games, and averaging 3 minutes. I agree that Johnson and Rodriguez never looked good enough to warrant a scholarship. I felt for Amoke in the beginning, as he had to sit out a year with a heart ailment or ciirculation disorder. Amoke was a good rebounder and decent defender, and was very skilled in tipping in missed shots from teammates. Almost a lost art. He had uncanny timing. Unfortunately his range ended one foot from the basket. He did start 14 games in 2010, and helped Cal to the PAC10 conference title, and then ruined his Cal career by being very immature and stealing laptops, I believe.

I agree that the way Bak Bak looked early on, he should not have warranted a schollie either, very unathletic and unskilled. As the years went by, he did develop a jump shot, and he usually made it, from one spot on the baseline, about a 12 footer. Monty used to put him in games, run the one play, get a bucket, and take him out. Almost automatic. My favorite Bak moment was as a senior, when Brock Motum was tearing up the PAC10, and when Cal played WSU, Motum was being touted by some as one of the favorites for the PAC10 player of the year award. In the first half, Brock was scoring at will, Montgomery tried everyone in the rotation to guard him, to no avail. Monty put Bak in to guard Motum, and he completely shut Motum down for enough of the 2nd half to allow Cal to win the game. And I never heard anyone mention Motum for the PAC10 Player of the Year Award after that. Coaching can make a difference, sometimes even in the most hopeless-looking of cases.

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I'm pretty sure Frid was on the roster:
https://calbears.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/geoffrey-frid/7356

He played for CSULA and made All-League. Here is his highlight video:

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It looks like you are right after all. Sports-reference.com did not have Frid or Rodriguez on the roster for that season, but the Cal website and the Cal post-season guide both have Frid and Rodrguez on the roster for 2013. I went to depending on sports-reference because long ago, Tsubamoto chewed me out for using college team websites for statistics, saying they were not as complete or accurate as sports-reference. Neither Frid nor Rodriguez appeared in a Cal game that year, and so they have no statistics shown in the media guide, and are not even listed on the roster in sports-reference. I should have checked further before posting.

Thanks for the video. Frid looks pretty good. Too bad he was not farther along when we signed him. Monty and Cal fans couldn't wait for him to develop, which looks like it has taken several years to accomplish.

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Bisonbob said:

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I'm having a hard time remembering when we had a knock down three point shooting guard,.Brown, South ( a little), Austin (No bueno as shooters!) Can't believe we can't find somebody who can shoot.

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Pigskin Pete said:

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Jeff82 said:

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Cuonzo was a good recruiter

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Cuonzo was not a good recruiter. That's like saying Braun was a good recruiter because he got Powe to come here or that Monty was a good recruiter because he got Jabari Bird to come here. A couple of good things fell into his lap. When you evaluate ALL the recruits Cuonzo got to come here, he wasn't a good recruiter, which is why Wyking started off with a really bad roster.

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PtownBear1 said:

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Pigskin Pete said:

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Jeff82 said:

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Cuonzo was a good recruiter

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Cuonzo was not a good recruiter. That's like saying Braun was a good recruiter because he got Powe to come here or that Monty was a good recruiter because he got Jabari Bird to come here. A couple of good things fell into his lap. When you evaluate ALL the recruits Cuonzo got to come here, he wasn't a good recruiter, which is why Wyking started off with a really bad roster.

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Disagree. Aside from recruiting the highest rated Cal class of all time, there were other highly sought after players that decommitted or transferred after he left. Off the top of my head Jemarl Baker and Charlie Moore.

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OaktownBear said:

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socaltownie said:

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Pigskin Pete said:

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OaktownBear said:

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I get being beaten down by the sheer ennui that is Cal basketball and wonder why anyone would spend two seconds caring about it at this point, but we just paid $3M in buyouts and increased the salary of the coach in hopes of getting someone to care. Frankly, when Jones was hired I came to terms with the fact that Cal had decided that the financially wise thing to do was to be the Washington Generals. Was willing to live with that. But don't spend a bunch of money and become the Generals anyway.

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Regardless of how much money you spend on your coach, how many college coaches are going to be able to come into a losing team in the spring and make a marked difference immediately, even if they don't lose three starters to transfers right away?

Long-term, we're not going to be the Generals. I have concerns about hiring Fox and I don't need to reiterate them again and again. But we will get to mediocrity at some point.

We need to hit the transfer portal HARD.

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THe problem is, as you know, that the administration makes hitting that portal extremely difficult. Ditto grad transfers. That is, probably, my biggest complaint. Fox can coach. I am not sold he is a great recruiter but whatever. But this is an almost impossible rebuild in the current environment.

And yes, if I read one more god damm wall of text about the great Darrell I and how Pete Newell ran a wonderous half court set I will SCREAM ;-)

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My criticism has been primarily for Knowlton, not Fox. My issue is that with Cal having a deficient roster over the past 2 years due to defections, and just starting to have some stability there, we needed to maintain what we had and recruit more. We were not in a position where we had talent that was poorly coached. Fox is a solid coach who is not a recruiter. As I said elsewhere, I don't know that I think it is fair to Fox to expect him to EVER turn this program around. But hiring a guy that excels in coaching more than recruiting is not understanding your situation.

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TheFiatLux said:

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OaktownBear said:

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socaltownie said:

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Pigskin Pete said:

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OaktownBear said:

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I get being beaten down by the sheer ennui that is Cal basketball and wonder why anyone would spend two seconds caring about it at this point, but we just paid $3M in buyouts and increased the salary of the coach in hopes of getting someone to care. Frankly, when Jones was hired I came to terms with the fact that Cal had decided that the financially wise thing to do was to be the Washington Generals. Was willing to live with that. But don't spend a bunch of money and become the Generals anyway.

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Regardless of how much money you spend on your coach, how many college coaches are going to be able to come into a losing team in the spring and make a marked difference immediately, even if they don't lose three starters to transfers right away?

Long-term, we're not going to be the Generals. I have concerns about hiring Fox and I don't need to reiterate them again and again. But we will get to mediocrity at some point.

We need to hit the transfer portal HARD.

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THe problem is, as you know, that the administration makes hitting that portal extremely difficult. Ditto grad transfers. That is, probably, my biggest complaint. Fox can coach. I am not sold he is a great recruiter but whatever. But this is an almost impossible rebuild in the current environment.

And yes, if I read one more god damm wall of text about the great Darrell I and how Pete Newell ran a wonderous half court set I will SCREAM ;-)

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My criticism has been primarily for Knowlton, not Fox. My issue is that with Cal having a deficient roster over the past 2 years due to defections, and just starting to have some stability there, we needed to maintain what we had and recruit more. We were not in a position where we had talent that was poorly coached. Fox is a solid coach who is not a recruiter. As I said elsewhere, I don't know that I think it is fair to Fox to expect him to EVER turn this program around. But hiring a guy that excels in coaching more than recruiting is not understanding your situation.

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Except we didn't hire a guy who excels at coaching. Oh, we hired a guy who excels at coaching at Nevada, but not at power 5 conference, which Georgia found out and we should have learned from. But when you wait til the last minute to decide - well, actually be forced to admit your decision to inexplicably retain the coach who just put together the worst two year stretch in conference history was wrong, well this is what you get, I guess.

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PtownBear1 said:

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Pigskin Pete said:

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Jeff82 said:

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Cuonzo was a good recruiter

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Cuonzo was not a good recruiter. That's like saying Braun was a good recruiter because he got Powe to come here or that Monty was a good recruiter because he got Jabari Bird to come here. A couple of good things fell into his lap. When you evaluate ALL the recruits Cuonzo got to come here, he wasn't a good recruiter, which is why Wyking started off with a really bad roster.

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Disagree. Aside from recruiting the highest rated Cal class of all time, there were other highly sought after players that decommitted or transferred after he left. Off the top of my head Jemarl Baker and Charlie Moore.

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calumnus said:

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PtownBear1 said:

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Pigskin Pete said:

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Jeff82 said:

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Cuonzo was a good recruiter

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Cuonzo was not a good recruiter. That's like saying Braun was a good recruiter because he got Powe to come here or that Monty was a good recruiter because he got Jabari Bird to come here. A couple of good things fell into his lap. When you evaluate ALL the recruits Cuonzo got to come here, he wasn't a good recruiter, which is why Wyking started off with a really bad roster.

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Disagree. Aside from recruiting the highest rated Cal class of all time, there were other highly sought after players that decommitted or transferred after he left. Off the top of my head Jemarl Baker and Charlie Moore.

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Yeah, that is a head scratcher. I get that he is not liked, but Cuonzo was/is a very good recruiter. The only thing you might say is he brought in A talent but A and C (or even D) instead of all A or A and B talent. His biggest issue was coaching up the talent he brought in, decision a scheme to take advantage of the skills.

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