Despite his missed dunk, Cal's defense really stepped up a notch when JHD played extended minutes in the second half. I think moving forward as Pac12 season is ready to start, we will need to see more of that, after all it is 50% of the game.

Also in a strange kind of way I think that when JHD plays extended minutes it smooths out some of that overblown energy that causes turnovers on the offensive end.

Definitely our best defensive lineup is JHD, Bradley, Grant, Andre, and Brown.

i like jhd. i only wish he could put the ball in the hole.

He not only is able to guard the opposing team's best perimeter player but he's the best help defender as well. Plus he's a good rebounder for his size. All things this team desperately needs.

I get that he makes a lot of mistakes. But if this is a developmental year, id rather mins go to the guys with the highest upside.

ducky23 said:

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He not only is able to guard the opposing team's best perimeter player but he's the best help defender as well. Plus he's a good rebounder for his size. All things this team desperately needs.

I get that he makes a lot of mistakes. But if this is a developmental year, id rather mins go to the guys with the highest upside.

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100% agreed!

I would include Brown over Austin for the same reasons. After JHD, he is probably best defender on the team.

Great to see the defensive energy of each and best to see them on the court together.

Obviously on the offensive end, neither should be the focus when Cal has the ball, though Brown is more apt to make a good pass than Austin.

What I was saying was just that if you play players who only can play 50% of the game (basically no offense) how do you expect to win? JHD is a one dimensional player...if you have 5 one dimensional players who all play the same 50% (defense) you will lose....I would take my chances with 5 Currys any day over 5 JHDs.....in fact, a college team of 5 Currys would be top 10 nationally every year because no team could defend the 3 point line against them.....Curry can play defense so that makes your choice for comparison not only silly but ignorant....

Brown is a good defender but once again if you have JHD and Brown on the court at the same time, your opponent only has to defend against 3 possible scorers....Too much defense without at least a strong threat to score is defeating yourself....You still must outscore the other team to win....

ducky23 said:

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I get that he makes a lot of mistakes. But if this is a developmental year, id rather mins go to the guys with the highest upside.

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I guess upside is relative. After 3 years, I don't think there's much upside left.

Joker said:

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ducky23 said:

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I get that he makes a lot of mistakes. But if this is a developmental year, id rather mins go to the guys with the highest upside.

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I guess upside is relative. After 3 years, I don't think there's much upside left.

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I agree. I'd rather the minutes go to a younger player who will be here for more than 1 more year. I don't think we will see some incredible transformation in one year, unfortunately. I hope he proves me wrong.

this board under values defense

Joker said:

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ducky23 said:

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I get that he makes a lot of mistakes. But if this is a developmental year, id rather mins go to the guys with the highest upside.

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I guess upside is relative. After 3 years, I don't think there's much upside left.

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Speaking of upside and the fostering of said, is it better that Kuany and Thorpe sit on the bench and learn that playing time has to be earned, or is it batter to put them out on the court and have them learn by doing?

bearmanpg said:

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What I was saying was just that if you play players who only can play 50% of the game (basically no offense) how do you expect to win? JHD is a one dimensional player...if you have 5 one dimensional players who all play the same 50% (defense) you will lose....I would take my chances with 5 Currys any day over 5 JHDs.....in fact, a college team of 5 Currys would be top 10 nationally every year because no team could defend the 3 point line against them.....Curry can play defense so that makes your choice for comparison not only silly but ignorant....

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Oh, please, bearmanpg! As if any basketball follower would prefer JHDs over Currys!

I am thinking about Brown versus Austin, not Curry! Austin hardly ever distributes the ball and is not close to equal to Brown defensively. And I am not saying/thinking that Austin should get no playing time. I am saying that Brown is better defensively, and a better distributor, a crucial attribute for a point guard.

As for JHD, he did a good job of stopping the scoring of Malik Fitts. I doubt that Cal would have made as much of a comeback as it did, had JHD not impacted the game defensively. Indeed, JHD, with more experience and time on the court may become a reliable defensive stopper. Any team needs a guy who can impact a game defensively.

Who can argue against the truism that the team that scores the most wins the game? JHD has driven me almost mad at times with his offensive errors.

However, he is not a ball hog and I think he will continue to improve offensively as he plays more and learns. He may even become an offensive help to the team, with his speed and his hops.

as for JHD's impact besides his defense and rebounding...

on offense he shot 3-6 (50%) and 3-4 FT (75%). One of his shots was a nice pull up jumper.

his one turnover was a bogus call on a flop, which he also scored on (basket wiped off)

he is playing within himself on offense, forcing the action with his penetration, and drawing 2 fouls

some people focus too much on scoring the ball

there are other ways to impact the game, and I think Fox sees it too given the PT he has played Dyson

People can criticize Dyson's overall game, and his offense, but the SMC game is not one to do so. Hopefully his consistency will improve.

bearmanpg said:

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What I was saying was just that if you play players who only can play 50% of the game (basically no offense) how do you expect to win? JHD is a one dimensional player...if you have 5 one dimensional players who all play the same 50% (defense) you will lose....I would take my chances with 5 Currys any day over 5 JHDs.....in fact, a college team of 5 Currys would be top 10 nationally every year because no team could defend the 3 point line against them.....Curry can play defense so that makes your choice for comparison not only silly but ignorant....

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But no one is suggesting playing 5 guys who only play defense. Jorge was a one-dimensional player when he was a freshman and still had major impact. JHD isn't Jorge, but he does play hard defense and tends to up the tempo and energy of the team. On a team with few players who play both ends of the court at all well that's a plus.

bluesaxe said:

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bearmanpg said:

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What I was saying was just that if you play players who only can play 50% of the game (basically no offense) how do you expect to win? JHD is a one dimensional player...if you have 5 one dimensional players who all play the same 50% (defense) you will lose....I would take my chances with 5 Currys any day over 5 JHDs.....in fact, a college team of 5 Currys would be top 10 nationally every year because no team could defend the 3 point line against them.....Curry can play defense so that makes your choice for comparison not only silly but ignorant....

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But no one is suggesting playing 5 guys who only play defense. Jorge was a one-dimensional player when he was a freshman and still had major impact. JHD isn't Jorge, but he does play hard defense and tends to up the tempo and energy of the team. On a team with few players who play both ends of the court at all well that's a plus.

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The "5 JHD's" point is not relevant. We're talking about this year's Cal team, a team that really struggles defensively. If you have a guy who by himself can reduce the level of weakness, you need to give him significant minutes.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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bluesaxe said:

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bearmanpg said:

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What I was saying was just that if you play players who only can play 50% of the game (basically no offense) how do you expect to win? JHD is a one dimensional player...if you have 5 one dimensional players who all play the same 50% (defense) you will lose....I would take my chances with 5 Currys any day over 5 JHDs.....in fact, a college team of 5 Currys would be top 10 nationally every year because no team could defend the 3 point line against them.....Curry can play defense so that makes your choice for comparison not only silly but ignorant....

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But no one is suggesting playing 5 guys who only play defense. Jorge was a one-dimensional player when he was a freshman and still had major impact. JHD isn't Jorge, but he does play hard defense and tends to up the tempo and energy of the team. On a team with few players who play both ends of the court at all well that's a plus.

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The "5 JHD's" point is not relevant. We're talking about this year's Cal team, a team that really struggles defensively. If you have a guy who by himself can reduce the level of weakness, you need to give him significant minutes.

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I like your post. The whole East Bay knows JHD has a hard time on offense unless there is a clear run out and he can dunk it. But his usage on D is valuable for our team, since we don't have a lot of athletic or fast defenders. Hopefully his O picks up and he learns to attack the basket without dropping the ball. Meanwhile we need Bradley, Kelly, South and Anticevich to pick up the offensive load. Paris also needs to figure out a way to put in 10 pts a game too.

HoopDreams said:

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this board under values defense

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That is an understatement.

And it is not only this board. It is also the people or committee which assigns recruit rankings, etc.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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bluesaxe said:

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bearmanpg said:

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What I was saying was just that if you play players who only can play 50% of the game (basically no offense) how do you expect to win? JHD is a one dimensional player...if you have 5 one dimensional players who all play the same 50% (defense) you will lose....I would take my chances with 5 Currys any day over 5 JHDs.....in fact, a college team of 5 Currys would be top 10 nationally every year because no team could defend the 3 point line against them.....Curry can play defense so that makes your choice for comparison not only silly but ignorant....

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But no one is suggesting playing 5 guys who only play defense. Jorge was a one-dimensional player when he was a freshman and still had major impact. JHD isn't Jorge, but he does play hard defense and tends to up the tempo and energy of the team. On a team with few players who play both ends of the court at all well that's a plus.

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The "5 JHD's" point is not relevant. We're talking about this year's Cal team, a team that really struggles defensively. If you have a guy who by himself can reduce the level of weakness, you need to give him significant minutes.

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You are right. However, I do see improvement in the defense. I really liked our defense in the first 10 minutes against St Marys. Our players for the most part were in proper defensive stance and up in the faces of St Marys' players, mano a mano. I don't remember seeing this in the last couple of years. I think rather than go all in from the get-go on help defense, it looks like Fox is working on teaching individual defensive technique before he installs more help defense, unlike Wyking and even Cuonzo before him, whose teams never looked like they had learned basic fundamental individual defensive technique.

I think if players' mindset becomes dependent on too much help, that is they know help will be there when they lose their man, then they will not be as aggressive to try and stop him without help. One thing about giving minutes to a tougher man defender like JHD, is that his more aggressive individual defense can influence his teammates on the floor to play tougher individual defense themselves. This is what Jorge did when he came into a game off the bench. Players see that aggressiveness and sacrifice and they will dig down and play a little harder themselves on defense. When Bernie Simpson came off the bench for Cal like Jorge, it helped bring Cal our first NCAA title. We have to take advantage of JHD while we have him on our team.

Good point SFCB. Good individual defense can absolutely be "contagious." And what happened on Saturday was that Fox couldn't take Fitts going off anymore, so he committed to playing JHD to defend him the rest of the game. And look at Fitts first half compared to the second half. The results were obvious.

HoopDreams said:

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this board under values defense

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Not as much as you overvalue JHD

Joker said:

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HoopDreams said:

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this board under values defense

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Not as much as you overvalue JHD

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I have now been a season ticket holder for 34 years. I remember several times during that span when the opposing team had two or three players like JHD: guys that were super athletic, not real good shooters, half a step quicker than our guys, and constantly attacking the basket (particularly against Man D). By halftime Cal would have two or three guys on the bench in foul trouble trying to guard these guys. That is the role I envision for JHD. Let Bradley, South and Anticevich shoot the 3 balls.

I didn't suggest the 5 Curry idea....I disagree about giving up too much offense for defense though with this team you're lacking for both.....I think that if you want to give minutes for development you should give them to players you are going to have for awhile....JHD is a good option to shut down a hot opponent but that is the only time he should be on the floor IMO....If you think you can win scoring 50 to 60 per game then we will have to disagree....When conference comes around, JHD won't be able to go to the rim or if he can, the defense will not let him get uncontested lay-ups....Any kind of pressure on him and he can't even make lay-ups....Spot defensive player only.....

bearmanpg said:

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....Any kind of pressure on him and he can't even make lay-ups....Spot defensive player only.....

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I am going to have to see 4 league games before I agree to that. I think he is on an improvement arc. Last year I would agree with you.

Fox said after Oregon game that JHD is focusing on academics right now. No indication if JHD will return to playing.

ncbears said:

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Fox said after Oregon game that JHD is focusing on academics right now. No indication if JHD will return to playing.

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Here's hoping he returns to the court ASAP and his academics are stronger than ever!

91Cal said:

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ncbears said:

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Fox said after Oregon game that JHD is focusing on academics right now. No indication if JHD will return to playing.

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Here's hoping he returns to the court ASAP and his academics are stronger than ever!

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CalRivals tweeted tonight that Juwhan won't be back this season:

"[url=https://twitter.com/CalRivals][/url]@CalRivals
Update on #Cal's Juhwan Harris-Dyson, he will not be back with the team this season per Mark Fox, working on some academic stuff. Jacobi Gordon is still out, had a procedure done, but is not expected back in the next couple weeks"[url=https://twitter.com/CalRivals][/url]

Kinda weird how his "academic stuff" coincided with his arm all-of-a-sudden being in a cast.

HoopDreams said:

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this board under values defense

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Maybe, but this board values defense more than any other college basketball fanboard I've ever seen.

Big C said:

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Kinda weird how his "academic stuff" coincided with his arm all-of-a-sudden being in a cast.

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They don't have any nuns teaching at Cal do they?

Maybe but it seems the only one who seems to talk about defense much here is me

I always want one guy who you can put on someone who is hurting you, especially when the game is on the line. Dyson proved himself to be that guy this year (much improved defense from past)

Now coach doesn't have that tool in his toolbox.

calumnus said:

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HoopDreams said:

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this board under values defense

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Maybe, but this board values defense more than any other college basketball fanboard I've ever seen.

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HoopDreams said:

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Maybe but it seems the only one who seems to talk about defense much here is me

I always want one guy who you can put on someone who is hurting you, especially when the game is on the line. Dyson proved himself to be that guy this year (much improved defense from past)

Now coach doesn't have that tool in his toolbox.

calumnus said:

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HoopDreams said:

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this board under values defense

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Maybe, but this board values defense more than any other college basketball fanboard I've ever seen.

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I'm with you, HD. I've always thought JHD deserves minutes because of his defense. Missed him last night. I don't think Oregon does 10-18 from 3 with JHD out there.