The other two unfortunate plays was the bears first offensive play

Paris gets ball stolen then clearly wraps Thornton from behind and Fox's T (which he didn't deserve but still cost us). We just don't have the luxury to give up points on the FT line, or give the other team free points

bearister said:

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Does PAC 12 Network use digital de aging on Ben Braun? He has a year on me and I look like 50 miles of bad road compared to him. Ben bleeds Blue & Gold. I like that.

Never knew center court decal says San Francisco Warriors. Sweet. F@uck you, Lacob.

---

So it looks like they are transitioning back to the "San Francisco Warriors"? That didn't take long. Forty-seven years in Oakland and the closest they ever got to the name in print was "The Town".

A pox on the Warriors, Joe Lacob and their 6-24 asses. I am no longer a fan.

Big C said:

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So it looks like they are transitioning to be the "San Francisco Warriors"? That didn't take long. Forty-seven years in Oakland and the closest they ever got to the name in print was "The Town".

A pox on the Warriors, Joe Lacob and their 6-24 asses. I am no longer a fan.

---

When I was a boy they were the San Francisco Warriors and played at the Cow Palace. They changed their name to the Golden State Warriors when they moved to Oakland. Now they've moved back to SF and will once again be the San Francisco Warriors. I'm OK with that. Much bigger things to get worked up about.

touchdownbears43 said:

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Team Is turrrrrrible. No serious investment from the AD. Hired a re-tread HC with no track record of meaningful success. lol at anyone who thinks otherwise. Will maybe tune in next year when we win 8-10 games. Then the following year maaaaaaybe 12-14.

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Agree that Fox is a re-tread, but it's unfair to say he has no track record of meaningful success. He was quite successful at Nevada, which is why he got hired by Georgia in the first place.

On another note, while FT shooting was a crucial problem, so was 3-15 from 3, many of them good open looks.

Seems they have several names and pet names

They had The Town Jersey in the store, but we will see how long that lasts

Probably depends on how they sell

wallyball2003 said:

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Big C said:

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So it looks like they are transitioning to be the "San Francisco Warriors"? That didn't take long. Forty-seven years in Oakland and the closest they ever got to the name in print was "The Town".

A pox on the Warriors, Joe Lacob and their 6-24 asses. I am no longer a fan.

---

When I was a boy they were the San Francisco Warriors and played at the Cow Palace. They changed their name to the Golden State Warriors when they moved to Oakland. Now they've moved back to SF and will once again be the San Francisco Warriors. I'm OK with that. Much bigger things to get worked up about.

---

If you dint like it, dont watch.

wallyball2003 said:

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When I was a boy they were the San Francisco Warriors and played at the Cow Palace. They changed their name to the Golden State Warriors when they moved to Oakland. Now they've moved back to SF and will once again be the San Francisco Warriors. I'm OK with that. Much bigger things to get worked up about.

---

I think the fact you need to focus on to more fairly evaluate the negative feelings that have been generated is that although the team played in Oakland for 47 years, out of deference to San Francisco fans, none of the series of team owners changed the name to the Oakland Warriors.
Lacob was faced with the same sensitive issue when he moved the team back to SF. However, Lacob chose to follow the same path he takes every time there is a decision to be made involving the city of Oakland: "Oakland, go f yourself!" (Oakland has had to make claims against Lacob twice for parade cost reimbursement and now for his share of the cost of improvements to the Arena).*


*Im not sure if the official transition from Golden State to San Francisco has occurred yet but it's coming.

wallyball2003 said:

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Big C said:

---

So it looks like they are transitioning to be the "San Francisco Warriors"? That didn't take long. Forty-seven years in Oakland and the closest they ever got to the name in print was "The Town".

A pox on the Warriors, Joe Lacob and their 6-24 asses. I am no longer a fan.

---

When I was a boy they were the San Francisco Warriors and played at the Cow Palace. They changed their name to the Golden State Warriors when they moved to Oakland. Now they've moved back to SF and will once again be the San Francisco Warriors. I'm OK with that. Much bigger things to get worked up about.

---

Believe me, I have bigger things that I am more worked up about. As to this, I'm guessing Oakland is not your home town. Hey, Lacob can call his team whatever the hell he wants. I get it: The move from The Town back to The City will be a net positive for the franchise, even if he loses some fans from the East Bay (like me).

bearup said:

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HoopDreams said:

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If cal wins this Lars is game mvp

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8 points, 9 rebounds and only one foul.

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And he even got up there to throw down a slam dunk for the fans, especially socaltownie, who said he couldn't jump and wouldn't dunk. Now we know he can. The 9 rebounds is what I like best.

bearister said:

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FT, 3 point % and 3 point defense all Ouch! With Fox, if game is close at the end at least it is not an automatic loss like the last 4 years.

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Another ouch was the turnovers. 16 is way too many. I thought that was getting fixed. Back to the drawing board. Actually a pretty sloppy game with 16 TOs apiece on both sides.

KoreAmBear said:

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Tough when both our PGs are really struggling on O

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There are games (most of them) when I begin to think we don't have a point guard. Brown did very little, and Austin hurts us with one assist and 6 turnovers. What was he out there for? His defense?

SFCityBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Tough when both our PGs are really struggling on O

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There are games (most of them) when I begin to think we don't have a point guard. Brown did very little, and Austin hurts us with one assist and 6 turnovers. What was he out there for? His defense?

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My impression is that Austin is not as good a defender as Brown.

SFCityBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Tough when both our PGs are really struggling on O

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There are games (most of them) when I begin to think we don't have a point guard. Brown did very little, and Austin hurts us with one assist and 6 turnovers. What was he out there for? His defense?

---

After 5 years in college, Austin is what he is: a player with a few skills who doesn't have a position. His court vision isn't nearly good enough for a pg, and he can't shoot well enough to be a 2-guard. He plays because there's no one else (although I'd prefer more time for Brown to allow him to develop and live with his mistakes).

SFCityBear said:

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bearup said:

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HoopDreams said:

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If cal wins this Lars is game mvp

---

8 points, 9 rebounds and only one foul.

---

And he even got up there to throw down a slam dunk for the fans, especially socaltownie, who said he couldn't jump and wouldn't dunk. Now we know he can. The 9 rebounds is what I like best.

---

Lars was also an effective rim protector for the first time this year

He blocked one shot in the box score, but I swore he blocked a second. regardless, he was changing shots

UrsaMajor said:

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SFCityBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Tough when both our PGs are really struggling on O

---

There are games (most of them) when I begin to think we don't have a point guard. Brown did very little, and Austin hurts us with one assist and 6 turnovers. What was he out there for? His defense?

---

After 5 years in college, Austin is what he is: a player with a few skills who doesn't have a position. His court vision isn't nearly good enough for a pg, and he can't shoot well enough to be a 2-guard. He plays because there's no one else (although I'd prefer more time for Brown to allow him to develop and live with his mistakes).

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Agreed. Well said!

UrsaMajor said:

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SFCityBear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Tough when both our PGs are really struggling on O

---

There are games (most of them) when I begin to think we don't have a point guard. Brown did very little, and Austin hurts us with one assist and 6 turnovers. What was he out there for? His defense?

---

After 5 years in college, Austin is what he is: a player with a few skills who doesn't have a position. His court vision isn't nearly good enough for a pg, and he can't shoot well enough to be a 2-guard. He plays because there's no one else (although I'd prefer more time for Brown to allow him to develop and live with his mistakes).

---

I was hoping Austin might take that last step up this season, but he seems to be chafing a little bit, under Fox's tighter reins. I hope he finishes strongly; I appreciate him coming to Cal when we really needed a PG. You know, he did have some good games for us last season, games where he'd score in double figures and have several assists and hardly any turnovers.

But yeah, he is what he is. Again, I'm pulling for him to have a great 2020 for us.

bearister said:

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wallyball2003 said:

---

When I was a boy they were the San Francisco Warriors and played at the Cow Palace. They changed their name to the Golden State Warriors when they moved to Oakland. Now they've moved back to SF and will once again be the San Francisco Warriors. I'm OK with that. Much bigger things to get worked up about.

---

I think the fact you need to focus on to more fairly evaluate the negative feelings that have been generated is that although the team played in Oakland for 47 years, out of deference to San Francisco fans, none of the series of team owners changed the name to the Oakland Warriors.
Lacob was faced with the same sensitive issue when he moved the team back to SF. However, Lacob chose to follow the same path he takes every time there is a decision to be made involving the city of Oakland: "Oakland, go f yourself!" (Oakland has had to make claims against Lacob twice for parade cost reimbursement and now for his share of the cost of improvements to the Arena).*


*Im not sure if the official transition from Golden State to San Francisco has occurred yet but it's comin

---

I hadn't heard the name "Golden State" was out of deference to San Francisco fans. This article says the name arose out of a supposed bluff by Warrior owner Franklin Mieuli, who was negotiating with Oakland and San Diego to move the Warriors and play half the games in Oakland and half in San Diego, thus the Golden State name. Oakland came through with a good lease, and the San Diego games were moved to Oakland. The uniforms were already made with the Golden State name, and some said Mieuli was too cheap to rename the team and make new uniforms. Mieuli was forced to move the team out of SF, because it had lost money every year but one, and the city had no interest in building an arena for a money-losing team. I was sorry to see the name change to Golden State at the time, and even though I live in San Fran, I thought he should have changed the name to Oakland Warriors. All NBA teams are traditionally named for cities, not states. As for the 49ers, don't get me started on that one.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/oursf/article/How-the-Warriors-became-Golden-State-10856924.php

I'm not sure this venture will pay off. Lacob is moving the Warriors at the peak of their popularity, and the product is already not what it was the last few years. It will take draft after draft and trades to make it good again. San Francisco fans are harder to please than East Bay fans, I feel. We'll see if they keep coming in huge numbers.

3 years ago Lacob opined that the rest of the NBA would be chasing to catch up with him until the end of time.

What Happened When Venture Capitalists Took Over the Golden State Warriors


https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/magazine/what-happened-when-venture-capitalists-took-over-the-golden-state-warriors.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/magazine/what-happened-when-venture-capitalists-took-over-the-golden-state-warriors.amp.html

for a senior PG I've got three issues with him:

1. He has too many unforced turnovers. Example vs BC. Top of the key, Lars up top, a little pressure on both but no one pressing or trapping, lots of clock... basically a routine situation....pass bounce passes the ball at the ankles of our seven footer. Example 2, first play of game ... pick pocketed by a guard. Many other examples this season in routine situations where he makes lazy passes that get stolen or deflected. It's like he loses focus.

2. His defense continues to be poor. It may not be effort as he's undersized. He certainly is strong. Maybe he lacks quickness?

3. As the senior that has been at Cal for three years, is he a leader? Hard for me to really tell, but it doesn't jump out at me

On the positive side, he is a steady ball handler, and can break a press. He can get to the rim and finish and has a good pull up jumper. He is forcing it less often, and to a point it's no longer an issue. I think that's probably Fox. He is a strong rebounder. He remains our best offensive PG (Brown better defensively), and best PG overall

Quote:

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2. His defense continues to be poor. It may not be effort as he's undersized. He certainly is strong. Maybe he lacks quickness?

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I think he has plenty of quickness but to me it looks like (your words are appropriate here too) he loses focus and his man gets around him.

BC is a team where we had the lead, a big lead, and coughed it up. This is a big step backwards in the Fox era....To date, even with the losses, the team was looking better coached. This was a game where we should never have lost. My optimism is diminished a bit, but still liking the improvement over the Martin debacle and the Jones disaster leaving the program bare.

OdontoBear66 said:

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BC is a team where we had the lead, a big lead, and coughed it up. This is a big step backwards in the Fox era....To date, even with the losses, the team was looking better coached. This was a game where we should never have lost. My optimism is diminished a bit, but still liking the improvement over the Martin debacle and the Jones disaster leaving the program bare.

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A bit rash? One game where we can't hold the lead over one of the better teams we have so far played.

Taking the lead that we had was impressive; Lars was impressive (relative to his prior play).

Not being able to turn it up as needed against a more experienced and pretty good opponent I don't see as a disaster or reason to lose optimism.

The team seems to me to be improving, not only when viewed against the ineptitude of last year, but also the first several games of this year.

Hopefully the team will learn from this game, where they lost their grip on a lead it would have been great to hold.

Improving FT percentage and perimeter D are two priorities.

2019-20 Men's Basketball Cumulative Statistics - University of California Golden Bears Athletics


https://calbears.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats

HoopDreams said:

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On the positive side, he is a steady ball handler, and can break a press. He can get to the rim and finish and has a good pull up jumper. He is forcing it less often, and to a point it's no longer an issue. I think that's probably Fox. He is a strong rebounder. He remains our best offensive PG (Brown better defensively), and best PG overall

---

If Austin is guarded on a drive to the rim, he will almost never finish. Anyone can finish if not guarded. His 2 point percentage is roughly 79th in the conference after accounting for guys who haven't played many minutes.

As for his rebounding, 2.8 reb/g is not a strong rebounder, not even for a guard. His rebounding rate is tied for 84th amongst all Pac 12 players, regardless of position and 8th on his team.

bearister said:

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Improving FT percentage and perimeter D are two priorities.

2019-20 Men's Basketball Cumulative Statistics - University of California Golden Bears Athletics


https://calbears.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats

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I don't necessarily disagree on FT percentage needing to improve. but

*right now CAL's 72.3% ranks 117th which is damn good compared to CAL's absolutely pitiful rank of 315th in opponents' 3-point shooting percentage (36.4%)

*the 72.3% is "not high enough" or whatever primarily due to

Thiemann: 11 for 24 (I like Lars, but....well, let's hope he improves.)
JHD 8 for 15
Brown 4 for 10

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/california/2020.html

If I am forced to choose between watching a halfway decent coach with primarily mediocre players or a substandard coach with good players, I would choose the former because at least the losses are more emotionally palatable.

I like our current team and coach and look forward to watching them play. It is more satisfying than watching a team where the coach allowed a future impact NBA player to drive in a straight line down the center of the key and pick up 3 offensive fouls by halftime and who was clueless with regard to strategy in the last 2 minutes of every close game.

NathanAllen said:

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I've never understood the whole "Martin debacle" belief.

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My complaint with Martin is not with his record but with his failure to recruit enough players to sustain the program. Maybe hiring Jones exacerbated the problem but I think with any coach we would have been in rebuilding mode for a couple of seasons.

NathanAllen said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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. . .

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I've never understood the whole "Martin debacle" belief. Or how seeing what is almost certainly going to be a losing season an "improvement" over Martin's three years. The dude certainly had (and still has) his limitations as a coach mainly just on offense but also never had a losing season at Cal.

. . .

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Nathan, you almost nailed it on the head (offensive deficiencies), but you are leaving out a HUGE factor - and that is the last game he coached at Cal. That was such an insult to the basketball gods and Cal supporters and primates in general, that he deserves to be at the bottom of the coaching list.

Yes - one gross incident CAN ruin everything. He layed such an egg and displayed such a poor attitude that it was reflected by the entire team. I can't wipe that game from my memory and there is only one person is to blame

CUONZO MARTIN!!!

I've always assessed our team and coaching skill based on the progression (or lack thereof) in point guard play. That said, Fox inherited this squad, so let's see who he can develop or recruit to develop. I'm sure some of the hoops historians and armchair coaches can confirm this theory.

NathanAllen said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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BC is a team where we had the lead, a big lead, and coughed it up. This is a big step backwards in the Fox era....To date, even with the losses, the team was looking better coached. This was a game where we should never have lost. My optimism is diminished a bit, but still liking the improvement over the Martin debacle and the Jones disaster leaving the program bare.

---

I've never understood the whole "Martin debacle" belief. Or how seeing what is almost certainly going to be a losing season an "improvement" over Martin's three years. The dude certainly had (and still has) his limitations as a coach mainly just on offense but also never had a losing season at Cal.

Over the past two decades, Cal's best season win total was 24 (twice under Montgomery) and Martin had 23 in his second season. Sure, his last season was a disappointment but getting two of Cal's highest recruits ever one of which was from the Deep South and getting an NCAA tourney appearance in two out of three seasons seems hardly a "debacle."

It was Martin's fault the AD decided to promote Jones to HC after he left. And it wasn't Martin's fault half the team transferred last year after an awkward firing of Jones.

---

I used the "Martin debacle" as a bad, bad situation for Cal with the timing and the end result. I cannot blame him for moving to Missouri for $21M, and he was not bad at Cal bringing in two top 5 players and a lot of excitement, but the end result of having him here was a disaster which we are still digging out from.

NathanAllen said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

BC is a team where we had the lead, a big lead, and coughed it up. This is a big step backwards in the Fox era....To date, even with the losses, the team was looking better coached. This was a game where we should never have lost. My optimism is diminished a bit, but still liking the improvement over the Martin debacle and the Jones disaster leaving the program bare.

---

I've never understood the whole "Martin debacle" belief. Or how seeing what is almost certainly going to be a losing season an "improvement" over Martin's three years. The dude certainly had (and still has) his limitations as a coach mainly just on offense but also never had a losing season at Cal.

Over the past two decades, Cal's best season win total was 24 (twice under Montgomery) and Martin had 23 in his second season. Sure, his last season was a disappointment but getting two of Cal's highest recruits ever one of which was from the Deep South and getting an NCAA tourney appearance in two out of three seasons seems hardly a "debacle."

It was Martin's fault the AD decided to promote Jones to HC after he left. And it wasn't Martin's fault half the team transferred last year after an awkward firing of Jones.

---

I defended Martin a lot on here, but the bottom line is he left a devastated roster. Whatever he accomplished in his three years is great, but the day he walked out the door the program was drastically worse than the day he walked in.

tsubamoto2001 said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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NathanAllen said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

BC is a team where we had the lead, a big lead, and coughed it up. This is a big step backwards in the Fox era....To date, even with the losses, the team was looking better coached. This was a game where we should never have lost. My optimism is diminished a bit, but still liking the improvement over the Martin debacle and the Jones disaster leaving the program bare.

---

I've never understood the whole "Martin debacle" belief. Or how seeing what is almost certainly going to be a losing season an "improvement" over Martin's three years. The dude certainly had (and still has) his limitations as a coach mainly just on offense but also never had a losing season at Cal.

Over the past two decades, Cal's best season win total was 24 (twice under Montgomery) and Martin had 23 in his second season. Sure, his last season was a disappointment but getting two of Cal's highest recruits ever one of which was from the Deep South and getting an NCAA tourney appearance in two out of three seasons seems hardly a "debacle."

It was Martin's fault the AD decided to promote Jones to HC after he left. And it wasn't Martin's fault half the team transferred last year after an awkward firing of Jones.

---

I used the "Martin debacle" as a bad, bad situation for Cal with the timing and the end result. I cannot blame him for moving to Missouri for $21M, and he was not bad at Cal bringing in two top 5 players and a lot of excitement, but the end result of having him here was a disaster which we are still digging out from.

---

Cal had a chance to hire a decent coach when Martin left. Mike Williams decided that hiring Wyking was sufficient and that's why we are where we're at. Not because Martin left (he was going to always leave at some point anyway). Having a couple of better players wouldn't have covered up for a coach that had no business being the head man.

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It's not an either/or proposition. We were in terrible shape when Martin walked out the door. Hiring Jones made it worse.

Honestly, I think in some ways if we had been able to keep the guys who seemed keepable when Jones left, our roster was in better shape than when Martin left. (given that it was an open secret that Moore was gone) The main issue that makes us worse now is that we have a two year giant hit to our reputation and that makes it even harder to recruit to dig ourselves out of the hole we are in. But we were in a disaster state when Martin left and we would have been in one had he stayed.

tsubamoto2001 said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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NathanAllen said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

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BC is a team where we had the lead, a big lead, and coughed it up. This is a big step backwards in the Fox era....To date, even with the losses, the team was looking better coached. This was a game where we should never have lost. My optimism is diminished a bit, but still liking the improvement over the Martin debacle and the Jones disaster leaving the program bare.

---

I've never understood the whole "Martin debacle" belief. Or how seeing what is almost certainly going to be a losing season an "improvement" over Martin's three years. The dude certainly had (and still has) his limitations as a coach mainly just on offense but also never had a losing season at Cal.

Over the past two decades, Cal's best season win total was 24 (twice under Montgomery) and Martin had 23 in his second season. Sure, his last season was a disappointment but getting two of Cal's highest recruits ever one of which was from the Deep South and getting an NCAA tourney appearance in two out of three seasons seems hardly a "debacle."

It was Martin's fault the AD decided to promote Jones to HC after he left. And it wasn't Martin's fault half the team transferred last year after an awkward firing of Jones.

---

I used the "Martin debacle" as a bad, bad situation for Cal with the timing and the end result. I cannot blame him for moving to Missouri for $21M, and he was not bad at Cal bringing in two top 5 players and a lot of excitement, but the end result of having him here was a disaster which we are still digging out from.

---

Cal had a chance to hire a decent coach when Martin left. Mike Williams decided that hiring Wyking was sufficient and that's why we are where we're at. Not because Martin left (he was going to always leave at some point anyway). Having a couple of better players wouldn't have covered up for a coach that had no business being the head man.

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What's amazing was that Martin's coaching was being questioned to the point where I thought in one year, Cal would have to buy him out. Instead Cal got $1million for him to leave.

Huge $$$ swing. That was completely squandered.