UrsaMajor said:

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socaltownie said:

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HoopDreams said:

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socaltownie said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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There are 2 players who aren't going to transfer: Austin and South. Both have used up their eligibility. I expect everyone else to enter the portal. I also expect all of the recruits to de-commit. Next year's team will be all walk-ons from an open tryout in September.

Just because some posters hate Fox doesn't necessarily mean that the players do.

I know SCT is angry, but unless he has more insight into the locker room than most of the rest of us, he's blowing smoke.

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Here is the issue.....already we see Fox exhibit the "it is their fault, not mine." What kind of d*** tells a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds that they "ruined my family's christmas - when all of those kids are, for the most part, spending xmas NOT with their families so they can play Harvard (and likely practice/walk through that game on Thursday).

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I'm a little confused with your quotes

I never heard Fox say "it is their fault, not mine"

I also never heard him say "ruined my family's christmas"

where did you hear Fox say these things?

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"My family's Christmas is probably ruined if I don't leave the house," he said, putting the Fox household on notice. "I know we are going to have to go through the fire. I know we have some limitations and I know we have a lot to learn. And we are going to have to go through the fire and it is going to take everybody to get through it. That doesn't mean I have to be happy.""

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How is that blaming the kids? Unless I don't understand the meaning of we?

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"We" is

"the staff got outcoached"
"the staff could have better prepared our players"
"We relied on the 2-3 probably a possesion or 2 too long and that is on coach."

Seriously, his quotes NEVER reference his coaching - it is about missed free throws (this one), offensive lulls, turnover and defensive lapses.

Go look at Wilcox quotes. He almost ALWAYS assigns blame to himself and not to others and that is why we have had improving recruiting classes his first three years.

PS. Or he could have said. "Lost by 3. I got a Technical. On me this one."

He hates fox and wants to be vindicated.

socaltownie said:

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HoopDreams said:

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socaltownie said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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There are 2 players who aren't going to transfer: Austin and South. Both have used up their eligibility. I expect everyone else to enter the portal. I also expect all of the recruits to de-commit. Next year's team will be all walk-ons from an open tryout in September.

Just because some posters hate Fox doesn't necessarily mean that the players do.

I know SCT is angry, but unless he has more insight into the locker room than most of the rest of us, he's blowing smoke.

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Here is the issue.....already we see Fox exhibit the "it is their fault, not mine." What kind of d*** tells a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds that they "ruined my family's christmas - when all of those kids are, for the most part, spending xmas NOT with their families so they can play Harvard (and likely practice/walk through that game on Thursday).

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I'm a little confused with your quotes

I never heard Fox say "it is their fault, not mine"

I also never heard him say "ruined my family's christmas"

where did you hear Fox say these things?

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"My family's Christmas is probably ruined if I don't leave the house," he said, putting the Fox household on notice. "I know we are going to have to go through the fire. I know we have some limitations and I know we have a lot to learn. And we are going to have to go through the fire and it is going to take everybody to get through it. That doesn't mean I have to be happy.""

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Come on. This quote could be attributed to thousands of coaches across the country who are or have been in the midst of losing streaks. Coaches constantly speak of being miserable during bad runs, and many coaches talk about their teams' limitations with the idea they are growing. Ever hear Lou Holtz speak before a game??
Roy Williams just lost 4 in a row and talked about how NC just isn't very good right now,

garbers was a Dykes recruit, though Wilcox was the coach his freshman year.

On a different note, I wonder if Darius ever thought the NCAA would not grant him a waiver. He seems pretty bummed about it on his social media, as if he expected it. I wonder if he would have stayed had he known he would be sitting. Same with Vanover.

socaltownie said:

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I really hope people bet the under hard and we end up with 1 or 2, max. They do NOT need to be pampered and told Jones was "OK." But I cant see how you pull this tough guy routine with a roster which is NOT your kids and expect it to work. I mean Paris is likely trying just to get to March and then to May so he can (hopefully) walk. Worrying about Mark fox having a nice xmas and thus working on his game more than he is probably is not at the top. (and if he thinks this works then play and start Brown. Sure we will struggle but (in theory) that is the kid that bought your "tough guy" routine and is your long term answer at the point.)

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SCT: What in the world does the sentence regarding Paris mean? Did you even know he is a senior?

KoreAmBear said:

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On a different note, I wonder if Darius ever thought the NCAA would not grant him a waiver. He seems pretty bummed about it on his social media, as if he expected it. I wonder if he would have stayed had he known he would be sitting. Same with Vanover.

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McNeill and Vanover got some bad advice if they thought that saying they had an aging, infirm grandmother* was going to get them a waiver. While I'm too much of a good-spirited humanitarian to wish them ill, TS for them: They can both just sit there and be bummed for a year. Serves 'em right for leaving Cal. I REALLY wish Vanover had stayed; it would've been fun.

* exaggeration for effect

Big C said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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On a different note, I wonder if Darius ever thought the NCAA would not grant him a waiver. He seems pretty bummed about it on his social media, as if he expected it. I wonder if he would have stayed had he known he would be sitting. Same with Vanover.

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McNeill and Vanover got some bad advice if they thought that saying they had an aging, infirm grandmother* was going to get them a waiver. While I'm too much of a good-spirited humanitarian to wish them ill, TS for them: They can both just sit there and be bummed for a year. Serves 'em right for leaving Cal. I REALLY wish Vanover had stayed; it would've been fun.

* exaggeration for effect

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I like McNeill and have sympathy for him since he seems like he put out his best effort for Wyking. Now Vanover went from upside project to viable unicorn player creating huge matchup issues, because he got so much PT with us. I doubt he would have gotten much PT anywhere else. So he got ambitious and put himself in the transfer portal. Cal we help so many athletes success elsewhere lol.

KoreAmBear said:

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Big C said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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On a different note, I wonder if Darius ever thought the NCAA would not grant him a waiver. He seems pretty bummed about it on his social media, as if he expected it. I wonder if he would have stayed had he known he would be sitting. Same with Vanover.

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McNeill and Vanover got some bad advice if they thought that saying they had an aging, infirm grandmother* was going to get them a waiver. While I'm too much of a good-spirited humanitarian to wish them ill, TS for them: They can both just sit there and be bummed for a year. Serves 'em right for leaving Cal. I REALLY wish Vanover had stayed; it would've been fun.

* exaggeration for effect

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I like McNeill and have sympathy for him since he seems like he put out his best effort for Wyking. Now Vanover went from upside project to viable unicorn player creating huge matchup issues, because he got so much PT with us. I doubt he would have gotten much PT anywhere else. So he got ambitious and put himself in the transfer portal. Cal we help so many athletes success elsewhere lol.

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I forgot who McNeill was after he left. Was he that guy who erupted with a flurry of three pointers every 3rd or 4th game? The one who seemed like a pretty good guy and pretty good athlete, but had a low hoops IQ? Oh yeah, I remember him now. I hope he has a nice life, after one year of being bummed while he sits out.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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socaltownie said:

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I really hope people bet the under hard and we end up with 1 or 2, max. They do NOT need to be pampered and told Jones was "OK." But I cant see how you pull this tough guy routine with a roster which is NOT your kids and expect it to work. I mean Paris is likely trying just to get to March and then to May so he can (hopefully) walk. Worrying about Mark fox having a nice xmas and thus working on his game more than he is probably is not at the top. (and if he thinks this works then play and start Brown. Sure we will struggle but (in theory) that is the kid that bought your "tough guy" routine and is your long term answer at the point.)

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SCT: What in the world does the sentence regarding Paris mean? Did you even know he is a senior?

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Yes he did. He meant walk at graduation ceremonies

...and that's the way Ben coached, as well.

KoreAmBear said:

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Big C said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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On a different note, I wonder if Darius ever thought the NCAA would not grant him a waiver. He seems pretty bummed about it on his social media, as if he expected it. I wonder if he would have stayed had he known he would be sitting. Same with Vanover.

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McNeill and Vanover got some bad advice if they thought that saying they had an aging, infirm grandmother* was going to get them a waiver. While I'm too much of a good-spirited humanitarian to wish them ill, TS for them: They can both just sit there and be bummed for a year. Serves 'em right for leaving Cal. I REALLY wish Vanover had stayed; it would've been fun.

* exaggeration for effect

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I like McNeill and have sympathy for him since he seems like he put out his best effort for Wyking. Now Vanover went from upside project to viable unicorn player creating huge matchup issues, because he got so much PT with us. I doubt he would have gotten much PT anywhere else. So he got ambitious and put himself in the transfer portal. Cal we help so many athletes success elsewhere lol.

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Looks like Conor has yet to play at all for Arkansas. Maybe he is redshirting?

calumnus said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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Big C said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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On a different note, I wonder if Darius ever thought the NCAA would not grant him a waiver. He seems pretty bummed about it on his social media, as if he expected it. I wonder if he would have stayed had he known he would be sitting. Same with Vanover.

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McNeill and Vanover got some bad advice if they thought that saying they had an aging, infirm grandmother* was going to get them a waiver. While I'm too much of a good-spirited humanitarian to wish them ill, TS for them: They can both just sit there and be bummed for a year. Serves 'em right for leaving Cal. I REALLY wish Vanover had stayed; it would've been fun.

* exaggeration for effect

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I like McNeill and have sympathy for him since he seems like he put out his best effort for Wyking. Now Vanover went from upside project to viable unicorn player creating huge matchup issues, because he got so much PT with us. I doubt he would have gotten much PT anywhere else. So he got ambitious and put himself in the transfer portal. Cal we help so many athletes success elsewhere lol.

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Looks like Conor has yet to play at all for Arkansas. Maybe he is redshirting?

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Vanover is ineligible.
He was denied a waiver and has to sit out this year.

Good.

puget sound cal fan said:

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...and that's the way Ben coached, as well.

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Yes, when he was more successful. Then he found love, mellowed out, and the program went to *****

we need a scorer/shooter recruit to help bradley. we need brown to shoot 500 jumpers a day in the off season. we need points from the point guard position. thst will solve a few of our problems.

calgo430 said:

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we need a scorer/shooter recruit to help bradley. we need brown to shoot 500 jumpers a day in the off season. we need points from the point guard position. thst will solve a few of our problems.

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You assume Matt B is here next year. That is not an assumption I am buying. In the end "it is a business" and Matt B has to be wondering if this is a great place to show off and develop a game

Brown's shot needs to be rebuilt from ground up before those 500 shots. His form is flawed. So you start there. That is a tough thing to do when you don't have a dedicated practice facility and a bunch of coaches who are in their dotage.

I'm going with 3.5 for the over/under on xfers. I'm guessing that the Portal is going to attract 3.5 players from a team each season with 1.5 actually moving. That is simply my estimate of the MARKET FORCE of the Portal, regardless of coch, team results or anything else. Better teams will likely have fewer and poorer teams will likely have more for obvious reasons. It is hard to deny that Cal will be anything other than a poorer team this season, so I expect the number of players entering and moving in the portal to be higher than average. Furthermore, since Fox will be completing year 1, I also assume there will be even more who did not like how the first year went.

Paris and South are graduating. I don't feel Antecevich or Thiemann will play with the portal either. Everyone else SHOULD consider entering the portal for various reasons.

Brown
Dyson
Kuany
Bradley
Kelly
Gordon
Thorpe
Klonaris

So, I wouldn't be surprised if next season consists of Antecevich, Thiemann, 3 Freshman, Four of the above and 3 transfers in, who are willing to give Cal a try.

BeachedBear said:

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Paris and South are graduating. I don't feel Antecevich or Thiemann will play with the portal either. Everyone else SHOULD consider entering the portal for various reasons.

Brown
Dyson
Kuany
Bradley
Kelly
Gordon
Thorpe
Klonaris

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I can think of three reasons Harris-Dyson might want to stay at Cal:
1) only one more year to a Cal degree
2) only one year of eligibility anywhere else
3) no better offer the last time he entered the portal
However if he has a breakout season and a pro career looks like a possibility then none of the above would be all that important.

I don't know why Thiemann would be more likely than the others to stay at Cal. I suppose all are considering some combination of Cal degree, pro possibilities, and Cal experience. International players may also prefer their home country and/or the basketball opportunities there.

socaltownie said:

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Lets start the line at 4. Though I think that is vulnerable to a gutsy bet on the over.

I am NOT convinced that "tough guy" is going to work in the Pac-12 but maybe. I would ask, however, if we wanted to go "tough guy" why not hire Howland? Seriously, what was JK thinking????

https://www.si.com/college/cal/basketball/cal-boson-college-basketball-game-thread

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Pretty much everyone was wondering what JK was thinking.

This wasn't as obviously a bad hire as Wyking, but why on Earth would THAT be the standard the AD uses? It wasn't that long ago Monty was coaching here.

Look, I'm not at all ready to write off this coach or the team, but this hire does speak to JK's judgment, just as the Wyking hire (and sooooooo many other bad decisions) speak to Williams' judgment. The difference is JK is supposed to be a "real AD" and not a hack from the donor class.

But all that is getting too far ahead at this point. Let's see what happens when the season is over.

Quite frankly, I can think of more than 4 guys on this team who should move on after this season. Not because Fox is bad, but because they aren't playing anywhere close to the level of a MBB scholarship player at a Pac 12 university and it would be better for both parties if they found a place more suited to their talents. I realize some of that is Fox having to take desperate measures, but that's the thing about taking a flyer on someone who isn't "good enough on paper." Most of the time they don't work out.

Dyson already tried to transfer. No one took him.

The way I understand the transfer portal works is if a player enters the portal, his original school can then refuse to take him back on scholarship...if the player doesn't find a new school, he can try to go back to his original school but there are no guarantees....There is something about Cal only giving out 4 year scholarships but I don't know how that would work with the NCAA transfer portal rules....If Dyson entered the portal last year then Cal took him back on scholarship even though I don't believe they had to....

They needed bodies.

oskidunker said:

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Dyson already tried to transfer. No one took him.

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Not shocking. Programs expect players to be able to shoot.

oskidunker said:

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They needed bodies.

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True enough....and bodies is what they got.....dead ones....

Joker said:

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oskidunker said:

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Dyson already tried to transfer. No one took him.

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Not shocking. Programs expect players to be able to shoot.

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He's starting to make layups and being more in control. Baby steps.

I'm going to revise my prediction. 5. Bradley is one of them. Why would anyone stay? I can't see Fox doing anything of note here at Cal but lose.

bearmanpg said:

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...There is something about Cal only giving out 4 year scholarships but I don't know how that would work with the NCAA transfer portal rules....

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I believe that's a Pac12 rule.

socaltownie said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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socaltownie said:

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HoopDreams said:

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socaltownie said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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There are 2 players who aren't going to transfer: Austin and South. Both have used up their eligibility. I expect everyone else to enter the portal. I also expect all of the recruits to de-commit. Next year's team will be all walk-ons from an open tryout in September.

Just because some posters hate Fox doesn't necessarily mean that the players do.

I know SCT is angry, but unless he has more insight into the locker room than most of the rest of us, he's blowing smoke.

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Here is the issue.....already we see Fox exhibit the "it is their fault, not mine." What kind of d*** tells a bunch of 19 and 20 year olds that they "ruined my family's christmas - when all of those kids are, for the most part, spending xmas NOT with their families so they can play Harvard (and likely practice/walk through that game on Thursday).

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I'm a little confused with your quotes

I never heard Fox say "it is their fault, not mine"

I also never heard him say "ruined my family's christmas"

where did you hear Fox say these things?

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"My family's Christmas is probably ruined if I don't leave the house," he said, putting the Fox household on notice. "I know we are going to have to go through the fire. I know we have some limitations and I know we have a lot to learn. And we are going to have to go through the fire and it is going to take everybody to get through it. That doesn't mean I have to be happy.""

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How is that blaming the kids? Unless I don't understand the meaning of we?

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"We" is

"the staff got outcoached"
"the staff could have better prepared our players"
"We relied on the 2-3 probably a possesion or 2 too long and that is on coach."

Seriously, his quotes NEVER reference his coaching - it is about missed free throws (this one), offensive lulls, turnover and defensive lapses.

Go look at Wilcox quotes. He almost ALWAYS assigns blame to himself and not to others and that is why we have had improving recruiting classes his first three years.

PS. Or he could have said. "Lost by 3. I got a Technical. On me this one."

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Keep on stretching'....good for what ails you!

fox has been dealt a poor hand. he needs to recruit shooters/scorers.

calgo430 said:

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fox has been dealt a poor hand. he needs to recruit shooters/scorers.

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He threw away two of his better cards. Last time we played in Maples Sueing and Vanover scored 33.

stu said:

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calgo430 said:

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fox has been dealt a poor hand. he needs to recruit shooters/scorers.

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He threw away two of his better cards. Last time we played in Maples Sueing and Vanover scored 33.

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I assume you have direct knowledge that Fox "threw away" those two players. Vanover, for one, went back home. I'm pretty sure you don't know for sure the motivation of either of them.

stu said:

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calgo430 said:

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fox has been dealt a poor hand. he needs to recruit shooters/scorers.

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He threw away two of his better cards. Last time we played in Maples Sueing and Vanover scored 33.

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Threw them away? He certainly lost them but I seriously doubt their departures were his choice.

I have no knowledge of the motivations of Sueing, Vanover, or Fox. I'm having trouble finding the right verb to suit the card metaphor - maybe failed to draw a better hand?