calumnus said:

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stu said:

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calumnus said:

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The only consolation for Cal fans is UCLA is almost as bad and they don't have our practice in lowering expectations.

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How many other UC campuses are ahead of Cal and UCLA? I'm not sure I want to see the answer...

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California Schools:
1. San Diego State #3
2. St. Mary's #28
3. Stanford #36
4. USC #41
5. Pacific #83
6. Santa Clara #89
7. UCSB #108
8. UCI #139
9. Cal Baptist #163
10. Sac State #178
11. USF #180
12. UCLA #192
13. Fresno State #193
14. UC Davis #195
15. CS Bakersfield #216
16. San Diego #218
17. Cal #219
18. Loyola Marymount #231
19. Pepperdine #251
20. CS Northridge #255
21. UC Riverside #256
22. San Jose State #259
23. CS Fullerton #279
24. Long Beach State #321
25. Cal Poly SLO #343

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Hard to compete with all these talent stacked powerhouses like UC Davis, San Diego, and Sac State.

Seriously though, how are so many small schools with rosters full of players rated as NR or 2 star and coaches making 1/10 as much in salary better than us? Seeing UCLA also down in the dumps is a slight consolation but come on

Callisto said:

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bearup said:

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calumnus said:

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bearup said:

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Appreciate this, but what a downer. Can any football players shoot the ball and/or play PG?

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(Walkon?) QB Robby Rowell was Acalanes' MVP at PG. There are videos at MaxPrep. He looks like a good passer and 3 pt shooter. At 6'2" 220 he has good size (better than walkon PG Orender at 5'11 180).

The best basketball player on the football team is probably Kuony Deng, who at 6'6" 220 with long arms and great hops always seemed more a basketball player than an ILB. He was an 4A All-State player in Virginia and his league's MVP averaging 19.2 ppg on a team that went 23-5 losing in the state semi-finals. His video shows decent shooting and the speed, energy and tenacity on defense he brings to the football field. His offers out of high school were nearly all for basketball, with his one football offer from Virginia Military Institute.

Between the two, I am sure Wilcox would be more encouraging of Rowell playing both sports.

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My goodness, Rowell would have a decent chance of being our starting PG. and/or the second coming of Randy Duck.

Also, imagine Deng and JHD on D at the same time.

Can you get to work on this ASAP?

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Nothing is more tired than message board folks trying to convert hoops wings into TE's and football players into basketball players.

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Well, you can't blame us for the thought. An athlete playing multiple sports at Cal (and some being really good at both or even 3 sports) is not without precedent. Here is an article on some of the most famous multi-sport athletes in Cal's history:

https://www.si.com/college/cal/best-of/cal-athletics-who-are-the-bears-greatest-all-time-two-sport-athletes-MPP0FbsYtE2ixVwFgK7FhA

I was fortunate to have seen Jackie Jensen and many other multi sport athletes play at Cal, and who could forget Cal hall of fame footballer Tony Gonzalez's great game against Villanova on the basketball court? Earl Robinson was a more successful baseball player, but was good enough in basketball to be named twice all conference and help Cal to two PCC championships and two NCAA Elite 8s. Bob Albo, a good basketball player at Cal was the starting catcher on the baseball team. John and Rupe Ricksen were both on the Cal tennis team and started on the basketball team. Chuck Hanger won the conference high jump championship, setting the Cal record, and led the Bear basketball team in scoring for two years, also setting a Cal record. Grover Klemmer was a famous track star, and also played both basketball and football at Cal. Mike White was a three sport athlete at Cal. Wesley Walker was a 3-time All American in track, and an All American football player at Cal.

NFL quarterbacks Steve Bartkowski and Craig Morton also played baseball at Cal. Joe Kapp played football and basketball at Cal, playing his basketball for Pete Newell, playing Cal PCC championships and NCAA Elite 8s in 1957 and 1958. If you played in a basketball game against Joe Kapp, you probably finished with some serious bruises.

What is perhaps even more unusual is a player deciding in the off season, of his primary sport, to decide to try and participate in another sport. For the current Cal basketball team, it would perhaps not be welcomed by the basketball players themselves, who have been working quite hard to absorb and master a new coach's system, and learn to work well with new teammates, not to mention all the practices the footballer woutd have missed. Unless the player was John Havlicek or someone that skilled in both sports.

Ashyan Davis says hello

Just a note: The Coaches' Poll is really the SIDs' Poll, as coaches don't have any time to, or any interest in, ranking teams, especially those they never play.

And on top of that, more than a few SIDs are instructed to cast votes for upcoming or past opponents to make the home team's wins and losses look better.

The AP poll is better, at least on the men's side, because most of the writers take it seriously and have the time to consider teams across the nation. A head coach in college is way too busy recruiting, recruiting, running practice, recruiting, getting ready for the next game, recruiting and recruiting.

ClayK said:

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Just a note: The Coaches' Poll is really the SIDs' Poll, as coaches don't have any time to, or any interest in, ranking teams, especially those they never play.

And on top of that, more than a few SIDs are instructed to cast votes for upcoming or past opponents to make the home team's wins and losses look better.

The AP poll is better, at least on the men's side, because most of the writers take it seriously and have the time to consider teams across the nation. A head coach in college is way too busy recruiting, recruiting, running practice, recruiting, getting ready for the next game, recruiting and recruiting.

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+1000

Really important factors in taking such polls with an immense grain of salt.

ClayK said:

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Just a note: The Coaches' Poll is really the SIDs' Poll, as coaches don't have any time to, or any interest in, ranking teams, especially those they never play.

And on top of that, more than a few SIDs are instructed to cast votes for upcoming or past opponents to make the home team's wins and losses look better.

The AP poll is better, at least on the men's side, because most of the writers take it seriously and have the time to consider teams across the nation. A head coach in college is way too busy recruiting, recruiting, running practice, recruiting, getting ready for the next game, recruiting and recruiting.

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Mack Brown

'nuff said

calumnus said:

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stu said:

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calumnus said:

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The only consolation for Cal fans is UCLA is almost as bad and they don't have our practice in lowering expectations.

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How many other UC campuses are ahead of Cal and UCLA? I'm not sure I want to see the answer...

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California Schools:
1. San Diego State #3
2. St. Mary's #28
3. Stanford #36
4. USC #41
5. Pacific #83
6. Santa Clara #89
7. UCSB #108
8. UCI #139
9. Cal Baptist #163
10. Sac State #178
11. USF #180
12. UCLA #192
13. Fresno State #193
14. UC Davis #195
15. CS Bakersfield #216
16. San Diego #218
17. Cal #219
18. Loyola Marymount #231
19. Pepperdine #251
20. CS Northridge #255
21. UC Riverside #256
22. San Jose State #259
23. CS Fullerton #279
24. Long Beach State #321
25. Cal Poly SLO #343

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What a lost opportunity to not have a home game against CS Bakersfield this season! Our genius marketing department could sell it as... a) the 216 team against the 219 team ("What an even matchup... and look at those high numbers!")... and... b) our chance at redemption for the infamous NIT first-rounder.

I could see the Straw Hat Band marching onto the court before the game, through a huge blow-up photo of Cuonzo Martin. It would be a packed Haas! Years from now, millions would claim they were there for the spectacle.

HoopDreams said:

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Ashyan Davis says hello

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HD,

Are you saying that

1. AshTan has some BB background
2. he may be a great BB defender even though he has little BB experience
3. he wants to join our fun-thread
4. I don't have a clue about your post
????

bearup said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Ashyan Davis says hello

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HD,

Are you saying that

1. AshTan has some BB background
2. he may be a great BB defender even though he has little BB experience
3. he wants to join our fun-thread
4. I don't have a clue about your post
????

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Or he was a two sport star (track & FB), albeit not simultaneously.

Civil Bear said:

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Or he was a two sport star (track & FB), albeit not simultaneously.

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Oh, come on......don't be picky.....his overall athleticism is sorta implied in #2

OK, OK. maybe I should have #5 Other

ClayK said:

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Just a note: The Coaches' Poll is really the SIDs' Poll, as coaches don't have any time to, or any interest in, ranking teams, especially those they never play.

And on top of that, more than a few SIDs are instructed to cast votes for upcoming or past opponents to make the home team's wins and losses look better.

The AP poll is better, at least on the men's side, because most of the writers take it seriously and have the time to consider teams across the nation. A head coach in college is way too busy recruiting, recruiting, running practice, recruiting, getting ready for the next game, recruiting and recruiting.

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Are you saying the Coach's poll is fake news?

According to USA Today, there are 32 D1 coaches, one representing each conference, voting in the Coaches' poll, including Jim Boeheim, Randy Bennett, Tom Crean, Tubby smith, Gregg McDermott, and of all people, Shantay Legans. Mark Fox is the PAC-12 representative.

Are you saying all these and many more coaches, most or all with impeccable reputations are participating in a scam to deceive the fans of D1 hoops?

I assume you have trustworthy evidence to back up your claims that SIDs are instructed to cast votes a certain way, or that they don't have time or interest to vote in the poll. BTW, I know what and IED is, and I know what an LED is, but I have no idea what an SID is, and even googling SID, I couldn't successfully wade through all the definitions to get any idea who these nefarious fake coaches are.

What you are accusing the poll, USA Today, and a lot of coaches whom I respect of, would be a big scandal, if true. So please back up what you say, so I can sleep better tonight.

There is absolutely no doubt that most coaches do not spend much time studying teams that they will never play. I talked directly to one coach who voted in the poll, and that person said the SID (who filled it out and sent it in) was ordered to put the next opponent at No. 25 if at all possible.

Seriously, do you think Roy Williams spends much time pondering which Pac-12 teams should be ranked and in what order? Or Jerod Haase spends a lot of time thinking about the SEC?

The Coaches' Poll is just another way for the NCAA to try and generate interest in the game, and that's great. But accuracy is not its strong point ...

SFCityBear said:

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ClayK said:

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Just a note: The Coaches' Poll is really the SIDs' Poll, as coaches don't have any time to, or any interest in, ranking teams, especially those they never play.

And on top of that, more than a few SIDs are instructed to cast votes for upcoming or past opponents to make the home team's wins and losses look better.

The AP poll is better, at least on the men's side, because most of the writers take it seriously and have the time to consider teams across the nation. A head coach in college is way too busy recruiting, recruiting, running practice, recruiting, getting ready for the next game, recruiting and recruiting.

---

Are you saying the Coach's poll is fake news?

According to USA Today, there are 32 D1 coaches, one representing each conference, voting in the Coaches' poll, including Jim Boeheim, Randy Bennett, Tom Crean, Tubby smith, Gregg McDermott, and of all people, Shantay Legans. Mark Fox is the PAC-12 representative.

Are you saying all these and many more coaches, most or all with impeccable reputations are participating in a scam to deceive the fans of D1 hoops?

I assume you have trustworthy evidence to back up your claims that SIDs are instructed to cast votes a certain way, or that they don't have time or interest to vote in the poll. BTW, I know what and IED is, and I know what an LED is, but I have no idea what an SID is, and even googling SID, I couldn't successfully wade through all the definitions to get any idea who these nefarious fake coaches are.

What you are accusing the poll, USA Today, and a lot of coaches whom I respect of, would be a big scandal, if true. So please back up what you say, so I can sleep better tonight.

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SFCity. Word of advice on internet searching. If you want to know a term, especially an acronym, put some context in your search. I searched "college basketball SID" for you and got several good hits. It means "sports information director". Here is the Wikipedia Page:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_information_director

SFCityBear said:

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ClayK said:

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Just a note: The Coaches' Poll is really the SIDs' Poll, as coaches don't have any time to, or any interest in, ranking teams, especially those they never play.

And on top of that, more than a few SIDs are instructed to cast votes for upcoming or past opponents to make the home team's wins and losses look better.

The AP poll is better, at least on the men's side, because most of the writers take it seriously and have the time to consider teams across the nation. A head coach in college is way too busy recruiting, recruiting, running practice, recruiting, getting ready for the next game, recruiting and recruiting.

---

Are you saying the Coach's poll is fake news?

According to USA Today, there are 32 D1 coaches, one representing each conference, voting in the Coaches' poll, including Jim Boeheim, Randy Bennett, Tom Crean, Tubby smith, Gregg McDermott, and of all people, Shantay Legans. Mark Fox is the PAC-12 representative.

Are you saying all these and many more coaches, most or all with impeccable reputations are participating in a scam to deceive the fans of D1 hoops?

I assume you have trustworthy evidence to back up your claims that SIDs are instructed to cast votes a certain way, or that they don't have time or interest to vote in the poll. BTW, I know what and IED is, and I know what an LED is, but I have no idea what an SID is, and even googling SID, I couldn't successfully wade through all the definitions to get any idea who these nefarious fake coaches are.

What you are accusing the poll, USA Today, and a lot of coaches whom I respect of, would be a big scandal, if true. So please back up what you say, so I can sleep better tonight.

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LOL

ClayK said:

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There is absolutely no doubt that most coaches do not spend much time studying teams that they will never play. I talked directly to one coach who voted in the poll, and that person said the SID (who filled it out and sent it in) was ordered to put the next opponent at No. 25 if at all possible.

Seriously, do you think Roy Williams spends much time pondering which Pac-12 teams should be ranked and in what order? Or Jerod Haase spends a lot of time thinking about the SEC?

The Coaches' Poll is just another way for the NCAA to try and generate interest in the game, and that's great. But accuracy is not its strong point ...

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OK, if you say so, but if that is evidence, I'd say it was hearsay about one incident, one coach, and one vote in one week's poll. The rest is all your opinion, which sounds awfully cynical about a sport I love, and if I started believing stuff like that, it would push me a step closer to finding another sport to follow.

SFCityBear said:

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ClayK said:

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There is absolutely no doubt that most coaches do not spend much time studying teams that they will never play. I talked directly to one coach who voted in the poll, and that person said the SID (who filled it out and sent it in) was ordered to put the next opponent at No. 25 if at all possible.

Seriously, do you think Roy Williams spends much time pondering which Pac-12 teams should be ranked and in what order? Or Jerod Haase spends a lot of time thinking about the SEC?

The Coaches' Poll is just another way for the NCAA to try and generate interest in the game, and that's great. But accuracy is not its strong point ...

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OK, if you say so, but if that is evidence, I'd say it was hearsay about one incident, one coach, and one vote in one week's poll. The rest is all your opinion, which sounds awfully cynical about a sport I love, and if I started believing stuff like that, it would push me a step closer to finding another sport to follow.

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I'd call this a reasonable opinion about polling, not an indictment of the sport. Personally I care little about problems with polls but more about issues with tournament seeding, officiating, and recruiting.

SFCityBear said:

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ClayK said:

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There is absolutely no doubt that most coaches do not spend much time studying teams that they will never play. I talked directly to one coach who voted in the poll, and that person said the SID (who filled it out and sent it in) was ordered to put the next opponent at No. 25 if at all possible.

Seriously, do you think Roy Williams spends much time pondering which Pac-12 teams should be ranked and in what order? Or Jerod Haase spends a lot of time thinking about the SEC?

The Coaches' Poll is just another way for the NCAA to try and generate interest in the game, and that's great. But accuracy is not its strong point ...

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OK, if you say so, but if that is evidence, I'd say it was hearsay about one incident, one coach, and one vote in one week's poll. The rest is all your opinion, which sounds awfully cynical about a sport I love, and if I started believing stuff like that, it would push me a step closer to finding another sport to follow.

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I hope you stop looking at this issue then because you will have no choice but to be a step closer to finding another sport to follow because this is just plain fact. Coaches have said it and you can also see the oddities (as the article I linked for football demonstrates) in the actual published coaches ballots. (also, the OP story is hearsay to you and me, but it is not hearsay to him as he talked directly to the coach who had the vote. "I ordered the SID to put the next opponent at #25" is not a hearsay statement.) I don't know what sport you will find that doesn't have similar issues. It will certainly have to be one where the monetary stakes are not very high.