So will Cuonzo find a new coaching opportunity now?

5,977 Views | 51 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by Jeff82
HoopDreams
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Attacking the basket was a good strategy given Jalen and Wallace were very good at it, and were sub-par shooters

BUT I felt his biggest game strategy coaching failure was his lack of maximizing the outstanding shooting of Jordan and Jabari.

He should have run more plays/sets to get those two more open looks from 3

Martin under valued the 3, and didn't use the advantage that he had two sharpshooters on the team
Big C
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BeachedBear said:

Big C said:




Nathan, thanks for a great and knowledgeable post. Personally, I had no problems with Cuonzo Martin's departure. While he did not prove to be the greatest on-court coach here, and was also not a very strategic recruiter, he always had my respect. Good for him for landing a higher paying job, near his home area. I have always wished him well.
I think Nathan was reacting to isolated, but 'loud' opinions of Martin.

I actually think Big C's portrayal is a more accurate reflection of the majority opinion on Cuonzo - both here on BI and in personal interaction with the fanbase. I would add two items:

1. His coaching/prep is unbalanced in that some more time spent on offense at the expense of defense would probably have meant better overall results.

2. His end of tenure behavior - primarily at the NIT game - was unprofessional and inexcusable. That really hurt his credibility. Many fans were lost during that 40 minutes.

I was AT the NIT game (and I know not too many people can say that). What was his behavior at the game that was "unprofessional and inexcusable"? Was he disengaged? Since EVERYBODY AT HAAS THAT EVENING was disengaged, I really didn't notice. He fit right in.

I really don't recall anything he did or didn't do during the game. What I do recall is that I hightailed it out to my car, in time for the post-game show, which he did (yes, he was somewhat disengaged) and the last thing he said was, "Go Bears".

The very next day, gone. Obviously, he had had one foot out the door.
BeachedBear
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Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:




Nathan, thanks for a great and knowledgeable post. Personally, I had no problems with Cuonzo Martin's departure. While he did not prove to be the greatest on-court coach here, and was also not a very strategic recruiter, he always had my respect. Good for him for landing a higher paying job, near his home area. I have always wished him well.
I think Nathan was reacting to isolated, but 'loud' opinions of Martin.

I actually think Big C's portrayal is a more accurate reflection of the majority opinion on Cuonzo - both here on BI and in personal interaction with the fanbase. I would add two items:

1. His coaching/prep is unbalanced in that some more time spent on offense at the expense of defense would probably have meant better overall results.

2. His end of tenure behavior - primarily at the NIT game - was unprofessional and inexcusable. That really hurt his credibility. Many fans were lost during that 40 minutes.

I was AT the NIT game (and I know not too many people can say that). What was his behavior at the game that was "unprofessional and inexcusable"? Was he disengaged? Since EVERYBODY AT HAAS THAT EVENING was disengaged, I really didn't notice. He fit right in.

I really don't recall anything he did or didn't do during the game. What I do recall is that I hightailed it out to my car, in time for the post-game show, which he did (yes, he was somewhat disengaged) and the last thing he said was, "Go Bears".

The very next day, gone. Obviously, he had had one foot out the door.
I was also at the game a few rows behind the bench. There was a lot to be seen, that may have not shown up on TV:

1. The first notice, was basic body language and energy during warmups. Although this is pretty subjective - it was a far cry from any previous game.
2. Second was the introductions. As players were introduced, they looked as they had been sentenced to be hanged. Clear hang dog looks by Ivan and others signaled that something was very wrong.
3. Third was players efforts during the game. Their seemed to be no structure from the bench on either end of the court as if to say - 'lets just get through this'. No adjustments by coaches, no reaction, heck, not even that much fiji water.
4. Fourth and this was the biggest issue for me. There were numerous times that Cuonzo was not focusing on the game, but turning to his assistants and saying things that did not appear to have anything to do with the game. This happened a number of times and the reaction by assistants and players was obvious.

The team was not prepared. The coach was not engaged. The players were not supported. The fans were insulted. It was clearly a different experience than any other game coached by Cuonzo

I know a lot of that sounds like loose interpretation of feels and looks - but it was so overwhelmingly obvious, that it can't be discounted much. Everyone would have been better off if Cuonzo stayed home that day and left it to an assistant.
TheSouseFamily
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Good summary, Beached. He also failed to use timeouts during obvious timeout situations when the Roadrunners went on a run (can't believe I just wrote that with a straight face).

Speaking of former coaches, anyone notice that Wyking has picked up some P12N work? I haven't seen him on any conference games but he did at least one non-conf game as a game analyst. I only know that because I saw Colorado fans complaining about him after the CU/Iona game, with some suggesting he was a better coach than analyst. That said, I'd be curious to watch/listen to one of his games.
BC Calfan
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I remember him giving heavy minutes to Nick Hamilton that game and wondering why.

I'm not in the Anti-Cuonzo camp. I don't think he screwed us long-term, short-term---intentionally or otherwise. He put together the most exciting team of the 2000s. Haas was rocking that season. Got us a 4 seed. And then bad luck hit. He recruited Raab and somehow landed Jaylen Brown. I think he's a good guy.

He left for a huge deal that we couldn't even come close to matching. Can't blame him for that. He left the cupboard bare for the following season. Can't really blame him for that either.

If people are looking for a scapegoat for the awful past 2 seasons it should be Mike Williams. If a competent coach was hired to succeed Cuonzo then a lot of his critics would be less vocal.
BeachedBear
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BC Calfan said:

I remember him giving heavy minutes to Nick Hamilton that game and wondering why.

I'm not in the Anti-Cuonzo camp. I don't think he screwed us long-term, short-term---intentionally or otherwise. He put together the most exciting team of the 2000s. Haas was rocking that season. Got us a 4 seed. And then bad luck hit. He recruited Raab and somehow landed Jaylen Brown. I think he's a good guy.

He left for a huge deal that we couldn't even come close to matching. Can't blame him for that. He left the cupboard bare for the following season. Can't really blame him for that either.

If people are looking for a scapegoat for the awful past 2 seasons it should be Mike Williams. If a competent coach was hired to succeed Cuonzo then a lot of his critics would be less vocal.

This point shouldn't be discounted. After the fact, it seems that William's relationship with Cuonzo probably had a lot to do with that last game. if there is a silver lining to those events, it is probably the light that was shone on the dysfunction of the Cal athletic infrastructure and leadership at the time. Many of us sensed it wasn't great - but probably did not realize how bad it was.
Civil Bear
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BC Calfan said:

I remember him giving heavy minutes to Nick Hamilton that game and wondering why.

I'm not in the Anti-Cuonzo camp. I don't think he screwed us long-term, short-term---intentionally or otherwise. He put together the most exciting team of the 2000s. Haas was rocking that season. Got us a 4 seed. And then bad luck hit. He recruited Raab and somehow landed Jaylen Brown. I think he's a good guy.

He left for a huge deal that we couldn't even come close to matching. Can't blame him for that. He left the cupboard bare for the following season. Can't really blame him for that either.

If people are looking for a scapegoat for the awful past 2 seasons it should be Mike Williams. If a competent coach was hired to succeed Cuonzo then a lot of his critics would be less vocal.


What stood out for me was Charlie Moore not getting many minutes (did not start).

But I have to ask:

If Martin wasn't responsible for the depleted roster, then who?

Who was the experienced coach beating on Cal's door to take over that roster?
BC Calfan
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Civil Bear said:

If Martin wasn't responsible for the depleted roster, then who?

Who was the experienced coach beating on Cal's door to take over that roster?

It's a transitional period. It's just something you have to deal with when the head of the program leaves. Is a departing coach supposed to secure the roster after he's left and taken another job? You can choose to blame Cuonzo for this but I don't.

I don't know about the coaching search but again I don't think it has anything to do with Cuonzo at that point. What should Cuonzo have done about his successor?
joe amos yaks
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What is Mike Williams up to these days ?
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
HearstMining
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BC Calfan said:

I remember him giving heavy minutes to Nick Hamilton that game and wondering why.

I'm not in the Anti-Cuonzo camp. I don't think he screwed us long-term, short-term---intentionally or otherwise. He put together the most exciting team of the 2000s. Haas was rocking that season. Got us a 4 seed. And then bad luck hit. He recruited Raab and somehow landed Jaylen Brown. I think he's a good guy.

He left for a huge deal that we couldn't even come close to matching. Can't blame him for that. He left the cupboard bare for the following season. Can't really blame him for that either.

If people are looking for a scapegoat for the awful past 2 seasons it should be Mike Williams. If a competent coach was hired to succeed Cuonzo then a lot of his critics would be less vocal.

He was a good guy, but he did screw us long-term. He put in an offense emphasizing "take it to the rim" which absolutely required very talented players to successfully execute, but he couldn't fill the pipeline with them. He wasted scholarships on several players who clearly weren't Pac12 caliber. And as others have mentioned, his players rarely improved (Bird's defense being a notable exception).
bearister
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Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
bearister
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Cuonzo Martin Conferance record at Missouri:

17W; 27L (.386)



" Ladies and gentlemen of the City Council, I'm just a caveman... Your world frightens and confuses me. When I see your tall buildings and flashing neon signs, sometimes I just want to get away as fast as I can, to my place in Martha's Vineyard. I'm more at home hunting the woolly mammoth than I am hunting a good interior decorator. And when I see a solar eclipse, like the one I went to in Hawaii last week, I think 'Oh no, is the moon eating the sun?', because I'm a caveman... but there is one thing I do know. The new resort housing development proposed by my partners and myself will include more than adequate greenbelts for recreation and aesthetic enhancement. Thank you. (smug grin)"
Keyrock, The Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer, Saturday Night Live
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Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
TheSouseFamily
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Your Honor.. we don't need to retire. Keyrock's words are just as true now as they were in his time. We give him the full amount.
socaltownie
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The game against Bakersfield was a **** show. But who knows if it was Martin's fault. Once it was clear that Ivan wanted to sit (cause, you know, NBA) and thought of the NIT as NOT IN THE TOURNAMENT we should have declined the invite. More so since Martin was negotiating.

And why not Zo's fault?

Because NO ONE can tell me that you can't imagine Martin telling Cal to decline and getting overruled by Mike Williams - the worst AD in Cal's ILLUSTRIOUS history of awful ADs.
Take care of your Chicken
bearister
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TheSouseFamily said:

Your Honor.. we don't need to retire. Keyrock's words are just as true now as they were in his time. We give him the full amount.


Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Big C
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BeachedBear said:

Big C said:

BeachedBear said:

Big C said:




Nathan, thanks for a great and knowledgeable post. Personally, I had no problems with Cuonzo Martin's departure. While he did not prove to be the greatest on-court coach here, and was also not a very strategic recruiter, he always had my respect. Good for him for landing a higher paying job, near his home area. I have always wished him well.
I think Nathan was reacting to isolated, but 'loud' opinions of Martin.

I actually think Big C's portrayal is a more accurate reflection of the majority opinion on Cuonzo - both here on BI and in personal interaction with the fanbase. I would add two items:

1. His coaching/prep is unbalanced in that some more time spent on offense at the expense of defense would probably have meant better overall results.

2. His end of tenure behavior - primarily at the NIT game - was unprofessional and inexcusable. That really hurt his credibility. Many fans were lost during that 40 minutes.

I was AT the NIT game (and I know not too many people can say that). What was his behavior at the game that was "unprofessional and inexcusable"? Was he disengaged? Since EVERYBODY AT HAAS THAT EVENING was disengaged, I really didn't notice. He fit right in.

I really don't recall anything he did or didn't do during the game. What I do recall is that I hightailed it out to my car, in time for the post-game show, which he did (yes, he was somewhat disengaged) and the last thing he said was, "Go Bears".

The very next day, gone. Obviously, he had had one foot out the door.
I was also at the game a few rows behind the bench. There was a lot to be seen, that may have not shown up on TV:

1. The first notice, was basic body language and energy during warmups. Although this is pretty subjective - it was a far cry from any previous game.
2. Second was the introductions. As players were introduced, they looked as they had been sentenced to be hanged. Clear hang dog looks by Ivan and others signaled that something was very wrong.
3. Third was players efforts during the game. Their seemed to be no structure from the bench on either end of the court as if to say - 'lets just get through this'. No adjustments by coaches, no reaction, heck, not even that much fiji water.
4. Fourth and this was the biggest issue for me. There were numerous times that Cuonzo was not focusing on the game, but turning to his assistants and saying things that did not appear to have anything to do with the game. This happened a number of times and the reaction by assistants and players was obvious.

The team was not prepared. The coach was not engaged. The players were not supported. The fans were insulted. It was clearly a different experience than any other game coached by Cuonzo

I know a lot of that sounds like loose interpretation of feels and looks - but it was so overwhelmingly obvious, that it can't be discounted much. Everyone would have been better off if Cuonzo stayed home that day and left it to an assistant.

IIRC, Ivan did not play in that game (which was part of the problem).

Maybe everybody was disengaged from the game because they read on Bear Insider that week that we shouldn't even be playing it, lol.

It was something of a memorable game for me: I had plenty of chances to chat with the ONE other person from our 10-person season ticket group that showed up. Sometimes, in the first half, we would look out at the court in disbelief. Towards the end of halftime, I went down to where the players come on to the court and tried to rev then up. I was doing it semi-tongue-in-cheek... not sure if they got that. Towards the end of the game, we went on a Don Coleman-fueled run, but came up short.

Given the particulars of the game, including the fact that Cuonzo knew he was gone, I had no problems with him blowing off the game. It was just bizarre, all-around. Memorable in its own unique way.
Civil Bear
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BC Calfan said:

Is a departing coach supposed to secure the roster after he's left and taken another job?

No, but he is responsible for keeping the cupboard stocked while he is here. It's a good thing he had a place to go, because he would have been screwed along with the rest of us had he not gotten another job offer. Who knows, maybe that had something to do with him making himself available.

I don't think either of us suggested Martin was responsible for Williams hiring Jones. My point is with the cupboard being bare, competent coaches weren't exactly knocking on our door.
Jeff82
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My view has long been that the entire Martin/Jones era was a giant diversion that basically did nothing to move the program forward in the long run. Maybe the only positive from it was Jaylen Brown coming here and having a good experience, which might encourage other 4-stars to consider schools that are not pure hoops factories. On the other hand, he's such a unique person, I'm not sure how relevant that might be.

I thought at the time we should have hired Decuire for continuity from what Monty had built, and I thought we should have hired him rather than Fox, despite the report that Travis didn't interview well. I think Fox is doing a good job with the hand he was dealt, as we actually seem to have a plan on the court. Whether he can improve the talent enough to make us competitive remains to be seen.
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