do we have anything going besides bowser and celestine ??? we sure could use a top prospect for 20-21.

cal A top-flight PG is an absolute necessity. Monte said a team needs three players who can play the PG position. As of now, only Brown returns and my deceased grandmother can shoot better than him. All hands on deck in this pursuit.

He has made a few threes. Better than Dyson.

oskidunker said:

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He has made a few threes.

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7 of 22 is not horrible.

Quote:

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Better than Dyson.

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0 for 4 at least has the charm of only 4 attempts.

calgo430 said:

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do we have anything going besides bowser and celestine ??? we sure could use a top prospect for 20-21.

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4thGenCal said: "We are in the running for a very good point guard out of So Cal who comes from an academic focused family. Gonzaga is the other finalist." Cal is a better academic school, but basketball-wise it will be tough to compete. I hope Cal has some other options. A grad transfer would be great.

Sluggo

stu said:

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oskidunker said:

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He has made a few threes.

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7 of 22 is not horrible.

Quote:

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Better than Dyson.

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0 for 4 at least has the charm of only 4 attempts.

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Forget minimum stats. If you've watched the games its obvious his shooting needs serious work. OTOH, Joel does everything else quite well.

He is shooting 32% for the season from three. He had one good game shooting the three against UNLV, where he went 3-3. The first bounced in off the backboard, the second hit the rim, and bounced straight up, came down a rattled in, and the third went in the basket clean. If you take away that one game, he is 4-19, or 21% for the other 24 games.

He has played in 25 games. In 11 games, he took no three point shot. In 9 games he took at least one three point shot, and did not make any threes. So only in 5 games all season did he make a three, and only in the UNLV game did he make more than one. I'll agree with Redless, that his shot needs work, but nearly all good shooters already have that reputation before they come to college. Most don't improve. See Tyrone Wallace and Sam Singer. On the other hand, someone probably helped Jaylen Brown to start making his threes, because he sure did not shoot them well at Cal. The other thing is that Joel Brown does not shoot twos very well either. He has made some spectacular drives, but misses way too many of them.

Absolutely. Not every point guard needs to be a tremendous 3 point shooter, but Joel (like Paris) at least needs to be consistent from the 15 foot range, otherwise defenders are going to back off completely, thus diminishing his effectiveness with the ball.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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Absolutely. Not every point guard needs to be a tremendous 3 point shooter, but Joel (like Paris) at least needs to be consistent from the 15 foot range, otherwise defenders are going to back off completely, thus diminishing his effectiveness with the ball.

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Right now Joel is not even looking to go to the rim either. He looks like he has the length and speed to get to the rack, but seems hesitant/reluctant. We cannot play 4 on 5 (and maybe 3 on 5 with Lars) half court offense.

Fixed it for you:

On the other hand, someone probably PAID Jaylen Brown to start making his threes, because he sure did not shoot them well at Cal.

Same with Kawhi for that matter, he shot about 25% in college, but is near 40% now. Those guys had the skills, desire, time and money to improve. For Brown to improve, he will have to take it upon himself, he might want to spend the summer gaining strength and shooting.

sandiegobears said:

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Fixed it for you:

On the other hand, someone probably PAID Jaylen Brown to start making his threes, because he sure did not shoot them well at Cal.

Same with Kawhi for that matter, he shot about 25% in college, but is near 40% now. Those guys had the skills, desire, time and money to improve. For Brown to improve, he will have to take it upon himself, he might want to spend the summer gaining strength and shooting.

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San Antonio's shooting coach, Chip Engelland, is famously great. You know who the Warriors skills coach is? Yes, Theo Robertson. The guy the incompetent one ran off. I would have kept Theo on, he was an incredible resource, and gotten rid of WJ and his band of nothings. But Cal.

Sluggo

sluggo said:

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sandiegobears said:

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Fixed it for you:

On the other hand, someone probably PAID Jaylen Brown to start making his threes, because he sure did not shoot them well at Cal.

Same with Kawhi for that matter, he shot about 25% in college, but is near 40% now. Those guys had the skills, desire, time and money to improve. For Brown to improve, he will have to take it upon himself, he might want to spend the summer gaining strength and shooting.

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San Antonio's shooting coach, Chip Engelland, is famously great. You know who the Warriors skills coach is? Yes, Theo Robertson. The guy the incompetent one ran off. I would have kept Theo on, he was an incredible resource, and gotten rid of WJ and his band of nothings. But Cal.

Sluggo

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Didn't know that. Theo could shoot a basketball, for sure.

SFCityBear said:

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sluggo said:

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sandiegobears said:

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Fixed it for you:

On the other hand, someone probably PAID Jaylen Brown to start making his threes, because he sure did not shoot them well at Cal.

Same with Kawhi for that matter, he shot about 25% in college, but is near 40% now. Those guys had the skills, desire, time and money to improve. For Brown to improve, he will have to take it upon himself, he might want to spend the summer gaining strength and shooting.

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San Antonio's shooting coach, Chip Engelland, is famously great. You know who the Warriors skills coach is? Yes, Theo Robertson. The guy the incompetent one ran off. I would have kept Theo on, he was an incredible resource, and gotten rid of WJ and his band of nothings. But Cal.

Sluggo

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Didn't know that. Theo could shoot a basketball, for sure.

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I would put Theo with Klay Thompson as having the prettiest shots I have ever seen regularly.

Sluggo

brown needs a jumper. right now he does not have one.

calgo430 said:

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brown needs a jumper. right now he does not have one.

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it certainly would be nice if Brown had an outside shot, but there are plenty of successful PGs without one (Tyrone was a good example), but if you don't have a shot, you need to be a scorer (pull up jumpers, finishing at the rim).

i've been most disappointed in his ability to finish at the rim

offensively, i do like that he is our best player to drive and kick. he had a great play vs ASU where he got the ball on the wing, drove into the paint and made a perfect pass to the weak side for a wide open 3

HoopDreams said:

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it certainly would be nice if Brown had an outside shot, but there are plenty of successful PGs without one (Tyrone was a good example), but if you don't have a shot, you need to be a scorer (pull up jumpers, finishing at the rim).

i've been most disappointed in his ability to finish at the rim

offensively, i do like that he is our best player to drive and kick. he had a great play vs ASU where he got the ball on the wing, drove into the paint and made a perfect pass to the weak side for a wide open 3

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I wonder how much of that is adjusting to the D1 level. In other words, what used to work in HS, is now getting blocked by a rim protector.

HoopDreams said:

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it certainly would be nice if Brown had an outside shot, but there are plenty of successful PGs without one (Tyrone was a good example), but if you don't have a shot, you need to be a scorer (pull up jumpers, finishing at the rim).

i've been most disappointed in his ability to finish at the rim

offensively, i do like that he is our best player to drive and kick. he had a great play vs ASU where he got the ball on the wing, drove into the paint and made a perfect pass to the weak side for a wide open 3

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If I recall correctly, one thing that Tyrone did have right from the beginning was a nice teardrop right handed floater from the 8 to 10 foot range that he consistently was able to convert. Even something like that could greatly help Joel's game.

BeachedBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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it certainly would be nice if Brown had an outside shot, but there are plenty of successful PGs without one (Tyrone was a good example), but if you don't have a shot, you need to be a scorer (pull up jumpers, finishing at the rim).

i've been most disappointed in his ability to finish at the rim

offensively, i do like that he is our best player to drive and kick. he had a great play vs ASU where he got the ball on the wing, drove into the paint and made a perfect pass to the weak side for a wide open 3

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I wonder how much of that is adjusting to the D1 level. In other words, what used to work in HS, is now getting blocked by a rim protector.

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I think that is part of it. But also he seems to not go up aggressively to the rim, instead preferring to shoot on the way down, or with arm outstretched scoop shots. Saw this a bit in his highlight vids. It's more the approach of somebody who doesn't jump well, but JB can get up (at least in pregame dunk attempts).

HoopDreams said:

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i

i've been most disappointed in his ability to finish at the rim

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That is a team-wide problem. It is not just Brown.

ncbears said:

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HoopDreams said:

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i

i've been most disappointed in his ability to finish at the rim

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That is a team-wide problem. It is not just Brown.

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Bring back Cuonzo. He'll teach 'em.

(Just kidding)

Why is it that everybody wants to compare the best year of a player to a freshman. Wallace, Jorge and many others didn't have those shots when they were just starting at Cal. It took some work to get there. I don't see anything that suggests our PG won't get there either.

I think he has a lot of potential.

I think Bradley and Paris are very strong finishing at the rack

ncbears said:

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HoopDreams said:

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i

i've been most disappointed in his ability to finish at the rim

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That is a team-wide problem. It is not just Brown.

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BeachedBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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it certainly would be nice if Brown had an outside shot, but there are plenty of successful PGs without one (Tyrone was a good example), but if you don't have a shot, you need to be a scorer (pull up jumpers, finishing at the rim).

i've been most disappointed in his ability to finish at the rim

offensively, i do like that he is our best player to drive and kick. he had a great play vs ASU where he got the ball on the wing, drove into the paint and made a perfect pass to the weak side for a wide open 3

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I wonder how much of that is adjusting to the D1 level. In other words, what used to work in HS, is now getting blocked by a rim protector.

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Joel needs a re-working of his shot mechanics. But yeah, he's a freshman. I do not know why fans expect freshmen to be complete players right away. Almost none of them are. He has good size for the position, quickness, plays tough defense, and is not at all a selfish player. Shots can be fixed. Players get better.

I agree with bluesaxe.

ncbears said:

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HoopDreams said:

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i

i've been most disappointed in his ability to finish at the rim

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That is a team-wide problem. It is not just Brown.

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Its college basketball. Not focusing on Joel because he's a freshman. We're focusing on him because he's most likely next year's starting point guard. In this sport its mandatory that your point guard has the ability to score if the defense backs off. That doesn't necessarily mean be a 3 point shooter but the ability to produce points, the way Paris has been recently.

He rarely attempts a shot.not sure if that is by design. With his horrible foul shooting I am not sure you want him driving to the basket at this time.

Next year he should be better

RedlessWardrobe said:

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ncbears said:

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HoopDreams said:

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i

i've been most disappointed in his ability to finish at the rim

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That is a team-wide problem. It is not just Brown.

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Its college basketball. Not focusing on Joel because he's a freshman. We're focusing on him because he's most likely next year's starting point guard. In this sport its mandatory that your point guard has the ability to score if the defense backs off. That doesn't necessarily mean be a 3 point shooter but the ability to produce points, the way Paris has been recently.

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If Joel can just shoot a mid-range J and finish at the rim, he has a higher ceiling than Paris (who is playing at a very high level now). What I love about the kid is how he just does whatever Fox asks him to do, just has the body language that he's here to serve not to be served. That attitude and perspective will go a long way. He is very talented, but the coaches will have to pull that out of him.

Excellent post, KAB.

It's a pleasure to see his defensive energy and his team orientation.

KoreAmBear said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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ncbears said:

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HoopDreams said:

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i

i've been most disappointed in his ability to finish at the rim

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That is a team-wide problem. It is not just Brown.

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Its college basketball. Not focusing on Joel because he's a freshman. We're focusing on him because he's most likely next year's starting point guard. In this sport its mandatory that your point guard has the ability to score if the defense backs off. That doesn't necessarily mean be a 3 point shooter but the ability to produce points, the way Paris has been recently.

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If Joel can just shoot a mid-range J and finish at the rim, he has a higher ceiling than Paris (who is playing at a very high level now). What I love about the kid is how he just does whatever Fox asks him to do, just has the body language that he's here to serve not to be served. That attitude and perspective will go a long way. He is very talented, but the coaches will have to pull that out of him.

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Absolutely agree on your observation. And on defense he is extremely high talented and motivated, which most young players are not. I think we all agree, his assignment this summer is to work on a more structured offensive game.

I'm totally fine with Brown not taking any shots. If he can play excellent D and not turn the ball over (Like last night with 0 turnovers in 27 mins), his minutes are extremely useful, provided we have other scoring options that can absorb the usage. I can see a potential comp with Jordan Goldwire at Duke who is probably the most scoring-challenged guy on the roster but now starts because of his on-ball defense and ability to limit turnovers.

That said, I obviously agree that any development offensively in the form of a mid-range jumper or, preferably, a three point jumper, is certainly welcome.

Agreed. And this year since Joel is not the primary point guard he can get away with not shooting. Next year there will be numerous time where he will have to shoot.