Cal adds stellar shooter as grad transfer
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This is exactly the kind of grad transfer Cal needs to snag every year. Ivy League role player (a la Grant Mullins).
Big get, as we definitely needed another shooter in the rotation.
Big get, as we definitely needed another shooter in the rotation.
What a relief. Props to the staff for getting this guy---I'm sure he had some great options.
Betley Leads Upset at Providence
Great video. He had huge game on the road to upset Providence. There's a mini-highlight package at 2:17 mark. He's going to help out A LOT.
Betley Leads Upset at Providence
Great video. He had huge game on the road to upset Providence. There's a mini-highlight package at 2:17 mark. He's going to help out A LOT.
2019-20 season:
6-5, 200 pounds shooting guard
No 40 on ESPN's top grad transfers
Started and played in 22 games, missing five Ivy League contests due to injury Finished fourth on the team in scoring (11.6 ppg) on 43% shooting Second in rebounding (5.8 rpg) and 3-point field goals made (49) at 36%, 78% free throws 1 Asst/game (1-1 assist to TO ratio)
Reached double figures in scoring 15 times, posted two double-doubles, and led Penn in scoring in two games
10th all-time in career 3-point FG (169)
2017-18: Second-team All-Ivy
2017-18: Second-team All-Big 5
2017-18: Second-team NABC All-District
2016-17: Ivy League Tournament All-Tournament
Ivy League Player of the Week (1/8/18)
Ivy League Player of the Week (12/11/17)
Ivy League Player of the Week (11/27/17)
Co-Ivy League Player of the Week (2/20/17)
Co-Big 5 Player of the Week (1/8/18)
Co-Big 5 Player of the Week (2/20/17)
Penn was 4th in Ivy League and 16-11 overall
6-5, 200 pounds shooting guard
No 40 on ESPN's top grad transfers
Started and played in 22 games, missing five Ivy League contests due to injury Finished fourth on the team in scoring (11.6 ppg) on 43% shooting Second in rebounding (5.8 rpg) and 3-point field goals made (49) at 36%, 78% free throws 1 Asst/game (1-1 assist to TO ratio)
Reached double figures in scoring 15 times, posted two double-doubles, and led Penn in scoring in two games
10th all-time in career 3-point FG (169)
2017-18: Second-team All-Ivy
2017-18: Second-team All-Big 5
2017-18: Second-team NABC All-District
2016-17: Ivy League Tournament All-Tournament
Ivy League Player of the Week (1/8/18)
Ivy League Player of the Week (12/11/17)
Ivy League Player of the Week (11/27/17)
Co-Ivy League Player of the Week (2/20/17)
Co-Big 5 Player of the Week (1/8/18)
Co-Big 5 Player of the Week (2/20/17)
Penn was 4th in Ivy League and 16-11 overall
Good, confident stroke. Athletically limited, but with a solid 6'5 frame if he can play solid help D and board he will be a huge boost to the team.
He wont get those open looks here but lets be positive and see what he can do. I have seen Cal players get that wide open look with two seconds left and not make that shot so it is a start and certainly an improvement on offense. Hope he can play defense . At least he has the height To put his hands straight up and contest the shot.
I don't know about role player. Mullins was a starter at Columbia and at Cal, and Betley was a starter at Penn, and is likely to be a starter at Cal, unless one of the youngsters, Kuany, Celestine, or Bowser beats him out for the job.ManBearLion123 said:
This is exactly the kind of grad transfer Cal needs to snag every year. Ivy League role player (a la Grant Mullins).
Big get, as we definitely needed another shooter in the rotation.
I would hope that he would turn out to be as good as Mullins, who could do everything pretty well, shoot, play defense, make his free throws, get some assists, etc. I consider him to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team. I certainly hope he gives Cal what Mullins did, which was very good team play. And Betley will have a have a better Cal coach to play for than Mullins did.
Both players suffered major injuries while in the Ivy League, causing each of them to miss a whole season. Mullins had neck and head injuries, and when he came back he had his best year at Columbia, followed by an excellent year at Cal. Betley suffered a torn patella tendon, and he had a good 3rd year at Penn, although his 3 point percentage had dropped from 39-40% to 36%. I hope Betley will find PAC12 rims friendler as Mullins did. Mullins was the better 3-point shooter, especially after his year off for injury, where he shot threes at 43-44% as a senior at Columbia and as a transfer at Cal. Betley is likely to give us more rebounds than Mullins, but less assists. And Mullins A/TO was 2:1, while Betley about 1:1
Why won't he get open looks here? Are you implying he is too slow to get open? Or are you implying that our coach can't get a player open? Or that West Coast defenses are so stingy they don't give open looks? This isn't the '50s or the '60s when that was true. First you say he won't get open looks, and then you say Cal players get open looks with two seconds left, which can be the most important moment in a game. Please. No need to be pessimistic before the kid even arrives here.oskidunker said:
He wont get those open looks here but lets be positive and see what he can do. I have seen Cal players get that wide open look with two seconds left and not make that shot so it is a start and certainly an improvement on offense. Hope he can play defense . At least he has the height To put his hands straight up and contest the shot.
SFCityBear said:I don't know about role player. Mullins was a starter at Columbia and at Cal, and Betley was a starter at Penn, and is likely to be a starter at Cal, unless one of the youngsters, Kuany, Celestine, or Bowser beats him out for the job.ManBearLion123 said:
This is exactly the kind of grad transfer Cal needs to snag every year. Ivy League role player (a la Grant Mullins).
Big get, as we definitely needed another shooter in the rotation.
I would hope that he would turn out to be as good as Mullins, who could do everything pretty well, shoot, play defense, make his free throws, get some assists, etc. I consider him to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team. I certainly hope he gives Cal what Mullins did, which was very good team play. And Betley will have a have a better Cal coach to play for than Mullins did.
Both players suffered major injuries while in the Ivy League, causing each of them to miss a whole season. Mullins had neck and head injuries, and when he came back he had his best year at Columbia, followed by an excellent year at Cal. Betley suffered a torn patella tendon, and he had a good 3rd year at Penn, although his 3 point percentage had dropped from 39-40% to 36%. I hope Betley will find PAC12 rims friendler as Mullins did. Mullins was the better 3-point shooter, especially after his year off for injury, where he shot threes at 43-44% as a senior at Columbia and as a transfer at Cal. Betley is likely to give us more rebounds than Mullins, but less assists. And Mullins A/TO was 2:1, while Betley about 1:1
You are seriously going to argue that Mullins brought more to the team than Ivan Rabb? Would love to see that argument.
I agree I wouldn't call him a role player. He is likely a starter. There is a middle ground between guy taking you to the next level and role player.
Mullins was more productive than Betley. His production dropped at Cal across the board but was still solid. That is a pretty consistent result from these types of transfers. I'd look for 8 points 4 rebounds. I don't know about defense. Sounds like he wasn't guarding the wing in the Ivy.
I suppose "role player" might be downplaying their abilities a bit, but both Mullins and Betley are more of 3 PT specialists than primary offensive options. That doesn't mean that Betley can't (like Mullins) play 30 minutes/game and be an extremely valuable piece next season.
Personally, I would call a starter averaging 8/4 used primarily as a shooting threat a role player. That term doesn't require coming off the bench, IMO.
I hear your points. I was wishing for 10 points a game.OaktownBear said:SFCityBear said:I don't know about role player. Mullins was a starter at Columbia and at Cal, and Betley was a starter at Penn, and is likely to be a starter at Cal, unless one of the youngsters, Kuany, Celestine, or Bowser beats him out for the job.ManBearLion123 said:
This is exactly the kind of grad transfer Cal needs to snag every year. Ivy League role player (a la Grant Mullins).
Big get, as we definitely needed another shooter in the rotation.
I would hope that he would turn out to be as good as Mullins, who could do everything pretty well, shoot, play defense, make his free throws, get some assists, etc. I consider him to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team. I certainly hope he gives Cal what Mullins did, which was very good team play. And Betley will have a have a better Cal coach to play for than Mullins did.
Both players suffered major injuries while in the Ivy League, causing each of them to miss a whole season. Mullins had neck and head injuries, and when he came back he had his best year at Columbia, followed by an excellent year at Cal. Betley suffered a torn patella tendon, and he had a good 3rd year at Penn, although his 3 point percentage had dropped from 39-40% to 36%. I hope Betley will find PAC12 rims friendler as Mullins did. Mullins was the better 3-point shooter, especially after his year off for injury, where he shot threes at 43-44% as a senior at Columbia and as a transfer at Cal. Betley is likely to give us more rebounds than Mullins, but less assists. And Mullins A/TO was 2:1, while Betley about 1:1
You are seriously going to argue that Mullins brought more to the team than Ivan Rabb? Would love to see that argument.
I agree I wouldn't call him a role player. He is likely a starter. There is a middle ground between guy taking you to the next level and role player.
Mullins was more productive than Betley. His production dropped at Cal across the board but was still solid. That is a pretty consistent result from these types of transfers. I'd look for 8 points 4 rebounds. I don't know about defense. Sounds like he wasn't guarding the wing in the Ivy.
Gee, if only we could get a coach who can coach and recruit. Fox is such a bum. This guy isn't a one and done, how is supposed to elevate the team to Final Four? Oh, if only we had a dedicated practice gym and a real coach maybe Cal could be....Louisville? Michigan State? Arizona? Oh, well, we are stuck where we are.
Yup. He did. I am chuckling about that.OaktownBear said:SFCityBear said:I don't know about role player. Mullins was a starter at Columbia and at Cal, and Betley was a starter at Penn, and is likely to be a starter at Cal, unless one of the youngsters, Kuany, Celestine, or Bowser beats him out for the job.ManBearLion123 said:
This is exactly the kind of grad transfer Cal needs to snag every year. Ivy League role player (a la Grant Mullins).
Big get, as we definitely needed another shooter in the rotation.
I would hope that he would turn out to be as good as Mullins, who could do everything pretty well, shoot, play defense, make his free throws, get some assists, etc. I consider him to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team. I certainly hope he gives Cal what Mullins did, which was very good team play. And Betley will have a have a better Cal coach to play for than Mullins did.
Both players suffered major injuries while in the Ivy League, causing each of them to miss a whole season. Mullins had neck and head injuries, and when he came back he had his best year at Columbia, followed by an excellent year at Cal. Betley suffered a torn patella tendon, and he had a good 3rd year at Penn, although his 3 point percentage had dropped from 39-40% to 36%. I hope Betley will find PAC12 rims friendler as Mullins did. Mullins was the better 3-point shooter, especially after his year off for injury, where he shot threes at 43-44% as a senior at Columbia and as a transfer at Cal. Betley is likely to give us more rebounds than Mullins, but less assists. And Mullins A/TO was 2:1, while Betley about 1:1
You are seriously going to argue that Mullins brought more to the team than Ivan Rabb? Would love to see that argument.
I agree I wouldn't call him a role player. He is likely a starter. There is a middle ground between guy taking you to the next level and role player.
Mullins was more productive than Betley. His production dropped at Cal across the board but was still solid. That is a pretty consistent result from these types of transfers. I'd look for 8 points 4 rebounds. I don't know about defense. Sounds like he wasn't guarding the wing in the Ivy.
To be fair that is a key part of what this team could use. It lest you set up a three point dude opposite Matt which SHOULD allow him more room to operate. Gotta get a point guard now - ideally a drive and dish kind of guy.ManBearLion123 said:
I suppose "role player" might be downplaying their abilities a bit, but both Mullins and Betley are more of 3 PT specialists than primary offensive options. That doesn't mean that Betley can't (like Mullins) play 30 minutes/game and be an extremely valuable piece next season.
I am only looking at how hard South had getting open last year. Yes, I think Pac 12 defenses are better than the Ivey league.Not one time in the film did he create a three or fake a guy out to get open. I hope he does well here and I am glad he is here. Just not thinking it will not be a major difference unless we get a big guy that can get the defense to collapse.
oskidunker said:
I am only looking at how hard South had getting open last year. Yes, I think Pac 12 defenses are better than the Ivey league.Not one time in the film did he create a three or fake a guy out to get open. I hope he does well here and I am glad he is here. Just not thinking it will not be a major difference unless we get a big guy that can get the defense to collapse.
We were able to get Kareem South lots of open threes last year but unfortunately he lost confidence in his shot during the pac 12 season.
NVBear78 said:oskidunker said:
I am only looking at how hard South had getting open last year. Yes, I think Pac 12 defenses are better than the Ivey league.Not one time in the film did he create a three or fake a guy out to get open. I hope he does well here and I am glad he is here. Just not thinking it will not be a major difference unless we get a big guy that can get the defense to collapse.
We were able to get Kareem South lots of open threes last year but unfortunately he lost confidence in his shot during the pac 12 season.
Maybe he got sped up in conference play but he did miss a lot of open jumpers. He was a nice addition though overall and happy he came here to help us rebuild.
Sometimes we don't see the forest for the trees, do we? The team that Cuonzo recruited Grant Mullins to join had three D1 players. Rabb, Bird, and Moore. That was it. The rest were wanna-be's, never would-be's, and maybe has-been's. Without Grant Mullins, who was Cuonzo going to start at guard opposite Moore? Sam Singer? Don Coleman? Brandon Chauca? Give me a break.OaktownBear said:SFCityBear said:I don't know about role player. Mullins was a starter at Columbia and at Cal, and Betley was a starter at Penn, and is likely to be a starter at Cal, unless one of the youngsters, Kuany, Celestine, or Bowser beats him out for the job.ManBearLion123 said:
This is exactly the kind of grad transfer Cal needs to snag every year. Ivy League role player (a la Grant Mullins).
Big get, as we definitely needed another shooter in the rotation.
I would hope that he would turn out to be as good as Mullins, who could do everything pretty well, shoot, play defense, make his free throws, get some assists, etc. I consider him to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team. I certainly hope he gives Cal what Mullins did, which was very good team play. And Betley will have a have a better Cal coach to play for than Mullins did.
Both players suffered major injuries while in the Ivy League, causing each of them to miss a whole season. Mullins had neck and head injuries, and when he came back he had his best year at Columbia, followed by an excellent year at Cal. Betley suffered a torn patella tendon, and he had a good 3rd year at Penn, although his 3 point percentage had dropped from 39-40% to 36%. I hope Betley will find PAC12 rims friendler as Mullins did. Mullins was the better 3-point shooter, especially after his year off for injury, where he shot threes at 43-44% as a senior at Columbia and as a transfer at Cal. Betley is likely to give us more rebounds than Mullins, but less assists. And Mullins A/TO was 2:1, while Betley about 1:1
You are seriously going to argue that Mullins brought more to the team than Ivan Rabb? Would love to see that argument.
I agree I wouldn't call him a role player. He is likely a starter. There is a middle ground between guy taking you to the next level and role player.
Mullins was more productive than Betley. His production dropped at Cal across the board but was still solid. That is a pretty consistent result from these types of transfers. I'd look for 8 points 4 rebounds. I don't know about defense. Sounds like he wasn't guarding the wing in the Ivy.
Where did I say anything about a player who could take us to the next level? We already had been at the next level, with the team from 2016, even though it fell short of expectations. Then Cuonzo had lost Brown, Wallace, and Mathews, three of his five all-star players. Cuonzo wasn't looking to get to the next level, only looking for an emergency fix to keep Cal from falling maybe all the way to the bottom of the PAC12, which I think could have happened without Cuonzo signing Mullins. And they finished a respectable 21-13 and 5th in the PAC.
Ivan Rabb was my favorite player on the 2016 team. Rabb brought much to that team, but you must remember that Rabb had all-star teammates to work with, primarily: Brown, Bird, Wallace, and Mathews. Mullins had two all-star teammates, Rabb and Bird, plus the freshman Moore. I liked Rabb. In early games, I liked it when he passed the ball to open teammates. As time went on, I saw less and less of that from Rabb, and I think Cuonzo told Rabb to concentrate on scoring himself, instead of looking for open teammates.
As to Mullins' production dropping at Cal, once again, aren't you just looking as statistics? You need to look at the teams he played for, the different coaches and their different systems. Mullins played for a very good coach in Kyle Smith at Columbia with a visible cohesive offensive system, if his USF teams are an example of his system. Martin's offense was everybody take it to the rim or shoot a three. So wouldn't you expect some dropoff going from a system which gives players opportunities they would not have playing one-on-one under Martin? Actually Mullins' 3-point shooting dropped imperceptibly fro 44% to 43% at Cal, and his FT% dropped dropped from 83% to 80%. Where he dropped the most is in 2 point shots, where his volume went way down, along with his percentage. I suspect he was in an offense at Columbia that gave him more layups and mid range shot, which were not a feature of Cuonzo's offense. And Mullins was not athletic enough to play "take it to the rim" with the bigs of the PAC12.
Players don't take your team to the next level all by themselves. Rabb could not take Cal to the next level, and neither could Brown, even playing on the same team. How the coach uses the players is SOOO important. Where he positions them, what he asks them to do. Cal under Cuonzo was one-on-one, almost exclusively, and few teams win doing that. I think Rabb could have been the type of player who could play on a team that gets to a high level (if we talk Final 4, for example), but he would need to be allowed to pass the ball when a teammate is open, and he would need to play on a team with complimentary players. He would need to stay 3 or 4 years, before it would happen, and he would need to play in a system, not just one on one, to have the best chance of helping his team to the next level. Similarly, Cuonzo did not take full advantage of Mullins capabilities. He needed to get him open for mid range shots, and for layups, where he could draw fouls and get to the line, and let him make assist passes. Not much of a part of Cuonzo's offenses.
Aw, I just did it to get a chuckle out of you. I like you much better when you are laughing, than when you are so pessimistic or are in attack mode.socaltownie said:Yup. He did. I am chuckling about that.OaktownBear said:SFCityBear said:I don't know about role player. Mullins was a starter at Columbia and at Cal, and Betley was a starter at Penn, and is likely to be a starter at Cal, unless one of the youngsters, Kuany, Celestine, or Bowser beats him out for the job.ManBearLion123 said:
This is exactly the kind of grad transfer Cal needs to snag every year. Ivy League role player (a la Grant Mullins).
Big get, as we definitely needed another shooter in the rotation.
I would hope that he would turn out to be as good as Mullins, who could do everything pretty well, shoot, play defense, make his free throws, get some assists, etc. I consider him to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team. I certainly hope he gives Cal what Mullins did, which was very good team play. And Betley will have a have a better Cal coach to play for than Mullins did.
Both players suffered major injuries while in the Ivy League, causing each of them to miss a whole season. Mullins had neck and head injuries, and when he came back he had his best year at Columbia, followed by an excellent year at Cal. Betley suffered a torn patella tendon, and he had a good 3rd year at Penn, although his 3 point percentage had dropped from 39-40% to 36%. I hope Betley will find PAC12 rims friendler as Mullins did. Mullins was the better 3-point shooter, especially after his year off for injury, where he shot threes at 43-44% as a senior at Columbia and as a transfer at Cal. Betley is likely to give us more rebounds than Mullins, but less assists. And Mullins A/TO was 2:1, while Betley about 1:1
You are seriously going to argue that Mullins brought more to the team than Ivan Rabb? Would love to see that argument.
I agree I wouldn't call him a role player. He is likely a starter. There is a middle ground between guy taking you to the next level and role player.
Mullins was more productive than Betley. His production dropped at Cal across the board but was still solid. That is a pretty consistent result from these types of transfers. I'd look for 8 points 4 rebounds. I don't know about defense. Sounds like he wasn't guarding the wing in the Ivy.
HoopDreams said:
2019-20 season:
6-5, 200 pounds shooting guard
No 40 on ESPN's top grad transfers
Started and played in 22 games, missing five Ivy League contests due to injury Finished fourth on the team in scoring (11.6 ppg) on 43% shooting Second in rebounding (5.8 rpg) and 3-point field goals made (49) at 36%, 78% free throws 1 Asst/game (1-1 assist to TO ratio)
Reached double figures in scoring 15 times, posted two double-doubles, and led Penn in scoring in two games
10th all-time in career 3-point FG (169)
2017-18: Second-team All-Ivy
2017-18: Second-team All-Big 5
2017-18: Second-team NABC All-District
2016-17: Ivy League Tournament All-Tournament
Ivy League Player of the Week (1/8/18)
Ivy League Player of the Week (12/11/17)
Ivy League Player of the Week (11/27/17)
Co-Ivy League Player of the Week (2/20/17)
Co-Big 5 Player of the Week (1/8/18)
Co-Big 5 Player of the Week (2/20/17)
Penn was 4th in Ivy League and 16-11 overall
Good get. Next up a grad transfer PG.
SFCityBear said:Sometimes we don't see the forest for the trees, do we? The team that Cuonzo recruited Grant Mullins to join had three D1 players. Rabb, Bird, and Moore. That was it. The rest were wanna-be's, never would-be's, and maybe has-been's. Without Grant Mullins, who was Cuonzo going to start at guard opposite Moore? Sam Singer? Don Coleman? Brandon Chauca? Give me a break.OaktownBear said:SFCityBear said:I don't know about role player. Mullins was a starter at Columbia and at Cal, and Betley was a starter at Penn, and is likely to be a starter at Cal, unless one of the youngsters, Kuany, Celestine, or Bowser beats him out for the job.ManBearLion123 said:
This is exactly the kind of grad transfer Cal needs to snag every year. Ivy League role player (a la Grant Mullins).
Big get, as we definitely needed another shooter in the rotation.
I would hope that he would turn out to be as good as Mullins, who could do everything pretty well, shoot, play defense, make his free throws, get some assists, etc. I consider him to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team. I certainly hope he gives Cal what Mullins did, which was very good team play. And Betley will have a have a better Cal coach to play for than Mullins did.
Both players suffered major injuries while in the Ivy League, causing each of them to miss a whole season. Mullins had neck and head injuries, and when he came back he had his best year at Columbia, followed by an excellent year at Cal. Betley suffered a torn patella tendon, and he had a good 3rd year at Penn, although his 3 point percentage had dropped from 39-40% to 36%. I hope Betley will find PAC12 rims friendler as Mullins did. Mullins was the better 3-point shooter, especially after his year off for injury, where he shot threes at 43-44% as a senior at Columbia and as a transfer at Cal. Betley is likely to give us more rebounds than Mullins, but less assists. And Mullins A/TO was 2:1, while Betley about 1:1
You are seriously going to argue that Mullins brought more to the team than Ivan Rabb? Would love to see that argument.
I agree I wouldn't call him a role player. He is likely a starter. There is a middle ground between guy taking you to the next level and role player.
Mullins was more productive than Betley. His production dropped at Cal across the board but was still solid. That is a pretty consistent result from these types of transfers. I'd look for 8 points 4 rebounds. I don't know about defense. Sounds like he wasn't guarding the wing in the Ivy.
SF - I'm sorry, but you are so itching for a fight every time you see my name you find one whether it was there or not.
Clearly your comment about Mullins being the most important recruit was silly. I assumed you just misspoke. Socaltownie says it and you make a self deprecating joke and basically acknowledge it. With me you continue a silly argument. I really like Grant Mullins. He was very important that team. I think he was better for Cal than the player he replaced. Seeing forest for the trees is realizing that Rabb scored a lot more and contributed 10 rebounds a game. That team would have struggled without Mullins. It would have been decimated without Rabb. Rabb was clearly a more important recruit than Mullins. And he was here 2 years. I know you don't like one and dones, so I'm surprised you don't think Mullins destabilized the program by only providing a year and taking away a scholarship we should have focused on 4 year players. Honestly, I feel silly even having to argue this. Let's short hand all that needs to be said:
SFCity: Mullins was a more important recruit than Ivan Rabb
Me: Uh...no.
Everyone else: OaktownBear wins!
SF, SF, SF. Sigh. Let me point out an important part of my post.Quote:
Where did I say anything about a player who could take us to the next level?
I did not disagree with you in any part after the first sentence regarding Ivan Rabb. So in order to find a fight you had to find contradiction where there wasn't and that lead you to further silly arguments. I didn't say you said he could take us to the next level. I was pointing out as an amplification to your argument that Betley isn't a role player that you don't have to be that guy to not be a role player. A starter who plays 25 minutes or more, as I expect Betley to do is not a role player. Grant Mullins was not a role player.Quote:
I agree
Yessssss!!!!!!!! That is what production is!!!!!! Pure and simple when you say production dropped you mean that a player's points, rebounds, assists, etc. went down. When a player scores 13 a game and then scores 10 a game his point production went down. Doesn't make him a worse player. In fact, I don't think Mullins was a worse player. Of course there were many things that resulted in the production going down. I was not commenting on him as a player. I was saying his production went down. It did. That is a fact. Not an opinion. He had fewer points (10.3/13.3) fewer rebounds (3.2/3.8) fewer assists (2.0/3.3) lower shooting percentage (40.9/50) and as you documented lower 3 point percentage and FT percentage.Quote:
As to Mullins' production dropping at Cal, once again, aren't you just looking as statistics?
So I stated a fact. In no way disagreeing with you. And you had to find something to fight about. SF, SF, SF. That just leads you to silliness.
Exactly!!! My whole point was the production of these guys tends to go down when they move up a level.Quote:
And Mullins was not athletic enough to play "take it to the rim" with the bigs of the PAC12.
What are we fighting about again?
Who are you calling athletically limited??!
He is crushing it in the Picard Ready Room. Deeana looks terrible. She used to be gorgeous.
Aw hell, let me stoke the fire a bit.....Charlie Moore was a better recruit than Grant Mullins.....and Rabb was head and shoulders better than either one of them....
Betley is a solid get. Quick trigger from deep. Defense is a question mark, but hopefully Fox can scheme around that. Should start, play somewhere in the range of 20-30 min/game depending on how good the freshmen are. Good complement to Bradley, who can move over to the 2 now.
Limited or not, he's a plus. You can never have too many shooters. Putting the ball in the hoop is the single most important trait in a BB player. Welcome!
I'm thinking he's going to free up Grant from the perimeter too. Betley, GA, and Bradley on the floor at same time should open things up.
Betleys size and rep as a long range threat will prob force defenses to account for him more than they did for South.
Betleys size and rep as a long range threat will prob force defenses to account for him more than they did for South.
Excuse me. My post was in reply to manbearlion123. I posted before you did. You are the one who picked a fight with me, not the other way around. I have no desire to fight with you or anyone else. Now you have made a long and disingenuous argument, including the usual personal attacks you like to make, personally ridiculing someone to make everyone believe that person's argument is "silly", in your words. You argue by taking my words and re-stating them to suit your own narrative of what you think I am saying, appearing to simplify what I am saying but actually changing what I am saying to further vilify me. Personal attacks and this method of arguing together are your calling card, at least when you argue with me.OaktownBear said:SFCityBear said:Sometimes we don't see the forest for the trees, do we? The team that Cuonzo recruited Grant Mullins to join had three D1 players. Rabb, Bird, and Moore. That was it. The rest were wanna-be's, never would-be's, and maybe has-been's. Without Grant Mullins, who was Cuonzo going to start at guard opposite Moore? Sam Singer? Don Coleman? Brandon Chauca? Give me a break.OaktownBear said:SFCityBear said:I don't know about role player. Mullins was a starter at Columbia and at Cal, and Betley was a starter at Penn, and is likely to be a starter at Cal, unless one of the youngsters, Kuany, Celestine, or Bowser beats him out for the job.ManBearLion123 said:
This is exactly the kind of grad transfer Cal needs to snag every year. Ivy League role player (a la Grant Mullins).
Big get, as we definitely needed another shooter in the rotation.
I would hope that he would turn out to be as good as Mullins, who could do everything pretty well, shoot, play defense, make his free throws, get some assists, etc. I consider him to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team. I certainly hope he gives Cal what Mullins did, which was very good team play. And Betley will have a have a better Cal coach to play for than Mullins did.
Both players suffered major injuries while in the Ivy League, causing each of them to miss a whole season. Mullins had neck and head injuries, and when he came back he had his best year at Columbia, followed by an excellent year at Cal. Betley suffered a torn patella tendon, and he had a good 3rd year at Penn, although his 3 point percentage had dropped from 39-40% to 36%. I hope Betley will find PAC12 rims friendler as Mullins did. Mullins was the better 3-point shooter, especially after his year off for injury, where he shot threes at 43-44% as a senior at Columbia and as a transfer at Cal. Betley is likely to give us more rebounds than Mullins, but less assists. And Mullins A/TO was 2:1, while Betley about 1:1
You are seriously going to argue that Mullins brought more to the team than Ivan Rabb? Would love to see that argument.
I agree I wouldn't call him a role player. He is likely a starter. There is a middle ground between guy taking you to the next level and role player.
Mullins was more productive than Betley. His production dropped at Cal across the board but was still solid. That is a pretty consistent result from these types of transfers. I'd look for 8 points 4 rebounds. I don't know about defense. Sounds like he wasn't guarding the wing in the Ivy.
SF - I'm sorry, but you are so itching for a fight every time you see my name you find one whether it was there or not.
Clearly your comment about Mullins being the most important recruit was silly. I assumed you just misspoke. Socaltownie says it and you make a self deprecating joke and basically acknowledge it. With me you continue a silly argument. I really like Grant Mullins. He was very important that team. I think he was better for Cal than the player he replaced. Seeing forest for the trees is realizing that Rabb scored a lot more and contributed 10 rebounds a game. That team would have struggled without Mullins. It would have been decimated without Rabb. Rabb was clearly a more important recruit than Mullins. And he was here 2 years. I know you don't like one and dones, so I'm surprised you don't think Mullins destabilized the program by only providing a year and taking away a scholarship we should have focused on 4 year players. Honestly, I feel silly even having to argue this. Let's short hand all that needs to be said:
SFCity: Mullins was a more important recruit than Ivan Rabb
Me: Uh...no.
Everyone else: OaktownBear wins!SF, SF, SF. Sigh. Let me point out an important part of my post.Quote:
Where did I say anything about a player who could take us to the next level?I did not disagree with you in any part after the first sentence regarding Ivan Rabb. So in order to find a fight you had to find contradiction where there wasn't and that lead you to further silly arguments. I didn't say you said he could take us to the next level. I was pointing out as an amplification to your argument that Betley isn't a role player that you don't have to be that guy to not be a role player. A starter who plays 25 minutes or more, as I expect Betley to do is not a role player. Grant Mullins was not a role player.Quote:
I agreeYessssss!!!!!!!! That is what production is!!!!!! Pure and simple when you say production dropped you mean that a player's points, rebounds, assists, etc. went down. When a player scores 13 a game and then scores 10 a game his point production went down. Doesn't make him a worse player. In fact, I don't think Mullins was a worse player. Of course there were many things that resulted in the production going down. I was not commenting on him as a player. I was saying his production went down. It did. That is a fact. Not an opinion. He had fewer points (10.3/13.3) fewer rebounds (3.2/3.8) fewer assists (2.0/3.3) lower shooting percentage (40.9/50) and as you documented lower 3 point percentage and FT percentage.Quote:
As to Mullins' production dropping at Cal, once again, aren't you just looking as statistics?
So I stated a fact. In no way disagreeing with you. And you had to find something to fight about. SF, SF, SF. That just leads you to silliness.Exactly!!! My whole point was the production of these guys tends to go down when they move up a level.Quote:
And Mullins was not athletic enough to play "take it to the rim" with the bigs of the PAC12.
What are we fighting about again?
I hesitated for a long time, before I chose what I guessed would probably be a mistake and replied to you. What I knew would happen, happened. You just can not let this Cal fan have an opinion, even a simple liking of a player, or have a favorite player for that matter, which does not concur with your own opinion. I made the statement about Mullins, because I am a proponent of team basketball, and he was the best team player on that team, in my opinion. That made him my favorite player. As a Cal fan, am I not allowed to have a favorite player? One who is different from your favorite(s)? Rabb was my favorite player on the 2016 team, Mullins on the 2017 team. That's all. My favorite team player at Cal in the last decade or so was Jorge. He gave the Cal team less "production" in terms of statistics or numbers than the stars he played with. He gave them the word, "team". Put it in their vocabulary, in their minds. Sacrificed his body and some of his desire to score points, both to help his teams win. He is a throwback to another era, not just an era at Cal, but in basketball in general, where individual defense and teamwork held sway. Basketball today has become more about team play on defense and individual play on offense.
Like Jorge in some respects, Mullins was the glue which held things together on his Cal team. He did not have the numbers that Bird or Rabb or Moore had. Their "production" was better. When I say Mullins was my favorite Cuonzo recruit, it was because he was the one who best exemplified teamwork and team play. He did not fit into the Cuonzo philosophy of take it to the rim. In the previous year, I felt it was so pathetic watching Jordan Mathews, Bird, and Jaylen Brown try to take the ball coast to coast, when none of them had the full court ball handling skills to do that and they all lost the ball trying it. Even Ivan Rabb tried it once. A bad coach can not only not get players to play well together, he can also get them to play worse, by forcing them to play in a system, instead of developing a system to take advantage of players' strengths. He completely took away Jabari's best skill the mid-range game, for example. He took away Ivan Rabb's normal way of playing. I saw Ivan Rabb in high school and I saw how he got doubled and passed to open teammates. At Cal, when he was doubled, he still tried to take it to the rim, per Cuonzo's instructions, or kick it out. He seldom passed to an open inside player.
You said "Clearly your comment about Mullins being the most important recruit was silly." Once again you have misstated what I said, which was, " I consider him to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team." When I say "what he brought to the team" I am talking about attitude, heart, character, toughness, willingness to make teammates look better, sacrificing if necessary, and finally, individual production. Mullins' production was, like Jorge's, not just a matter of box scores. One thing I forgot to mention was Rabb came to Cal, probably expecting, as nearly everyone did, that he would leave early for the NBA. Cal was fortunate that he stayed a second year. Still, he did throw his Cal teammates and the new coach Jones under the bus by throwing away his final two years of eligibility to go play professionally. If Rabb had stayed, Cal would have had a much better team, and Rabb's presence might have led to one or two better recruiting classes for Wyking. Mullins' case was different. He was more like a mercenary. He was given a chance to play at Cal as a grad student, which the Ivy League does not permit. He agreed to give Cal all he could for one season, and in return he got a scholarship and a chance to get a second degree from a prestigious university. He lived up to his agreement with Cal. There was no legal way he could have played a second year for Cal, whereas Rabb could have played two more years for Cal, if he had wanted to. I will stand by my statement, not by your characterization of what you think I said.
Chaps..
A lead in "Stand By Me (1986)", Wil Wheaton was a very early twitter adopter (as kids do), narrates books on tape, family man, and a prolific blogger # r-e-s-p-e-c-t
http://wilwheaton.net/2020/04/what-a-tragedy/
A lead in "Stand By Me (1986)", Wil Wheaton was a very early twitter adopter (as kids do), narrates books on tape, family man, and a prolific blogger # r-e-s-p-e-c-t
http://wilwheaton.net/2020/04/what-a-tragedy/
Quote:
..A leader looks at the best impulses of their people in a crisis, and they celebrate, encourage, and support those impulses. A president cares about protecting their citizens above all else.
Trump is neither of those things. Trump is an abusive despot, out of his depth, incompetent and unqualified.
May history record that, when millions of Americans came together, unselfishly, in the greatest act of human kindness in history, Trump saw a threat to be destroyed.
We are nowhere near the end of this. We are probably not even at the end of the beginning of this. Trump, his fearful supporters, and his angry cultists, are going to make things so much worse than they would have been, because it's all they know how to do.
What a tragedy.
muting more than 300 handles, turnaround is fair play
Thank you for proving my point. This a signature post for you. You want to talk about calling card. This is yours. You accusing the person who disagrees with you with personally attacking you and of changing the meaning of what you wrote. English words have meaning. You can't decide after the fact when you want to change your argument that they mean something else. And that is what you do.SFCityBear said:Excuse me. My post was in reply to manbearlion123. I posted before you did. You are the one who picked a fight with me, not the other way around. I have no desire to fight with you or anyone else. Now you have made a long and disingenuous argument, including the usual personal attacks you like to make, personally ridiculing someone to make everyone believe that person's argument is "silly", in your words. You argue by taking my words and re-stating them to suit your own narrative of what you think I am saying, appearing to simplify what I am saying but actually changing what I am saying to further vilify me. Personal attacks and this method of arguing together are your calling card, at least when you argue with me.OaktownBear said:SFCityBear said:Sometimes we don't see the forest for the trees, do we? The team that Cuonzo recruited Grant Mullins to join had three D1 players. Rabb, Bird, and Moore. That was it. The rest were wanna-be's, never would-be's, and maybe has-been's. Without Grant Mullins, who was Cuonzo going to start at guard opposite Moore? Sam Singer? Don Coleman? Brandon Chauca? Give me a break.OaktownBear said:SFCityBear said:I don't know about role player. Mullins was a starter at Columbia and at Cal, and Betley was a starter at Penn, and is likely to be a starter at Cal, unless one of the youngsters, Kuany, Celestine, or Bowser beats him out for the job.ManBearLion123 said:
This is exactly the kind of grad transfer Cal needs to snag every year. Ivy League role player (a la Grant Mullins).
Big get, as we definitely needed another shooter in the rotation.
I would hope that he would turn out to be as good as Mullins, who could do everything pretty well, shoot, play defense, make his free throws, get some assists, etc. I consider him to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team. I certainly hope he gives Cal what Mullins did, which was very good team play. And Betley will have a have a better Cal coach to play for than Mullins did.
Both players suffered major injuries while in the Ivy League, causing each of them to miss a whole season. Mullins had neck and head injuries, and when he came back he had his best year at Columbia, followed by an excellent year at Cal. Betley suffered a torn patella tendon, and he had a good 3rd year at Penn, although his 3 point percentage had dropped from 39-40% to 36%. I hope Betley will find PAC12 rims friendler as Mullins did. Mullins was the better 3-point shooter, especially after his year off for injury, where he shot threes at 43-44% as a senior at Columbia and as a transfer at Cal. Betley is likely to give us more rebounds than Mullins, but less assists. And Mullins A/TO was 2:1, while Betley about 1:1
You are seriously going to argue that Mullins brought more to the team than Ivan Rabb? Would love to see that argument.
I agree I wouldn't call him a role player. He is likely a starter. There is a middle ground between guy taking you to the next level and role player.
Mullins was more productive than Betley. His production dropped at Cal across the board but was still solid. That is a pretty consistent result from these types of transfers. I'd look for 8 points 4 rebounds. I don't know about defense. Sounds like he wasn't guarding the wing in the Ivy.
SF - I'm sorry, but you are so itching for a fight every time you see my name you find one whether it was there or not.
Clearly your comment about Mullins being the most important recruit was silly. I assumed you just misspoke. Socaltownie says it and you make a self deprecating joke and basically acknowledge it. With me you continue a silly argument. I really like Grant Mullins. He was very important that team. I think he was better for Cal than the player he replaced. Seeing forest for the trees is realizing that Rabb scored a lot more and contributed 10 rebounds a game. That team would have struggled without Mullins. It would have been decimated without Rabb. Rabb was clearly a more important recruit than Mullins. And he was here 2 years. I know you don't like one and dones, so I'm surprised you don't think Mullins destabilized the program by only providing a year and taking away a scholarship we should have focused on 4 year players. Honestly, I feel silly even having to argue this. Let's short hand all that needs to be said:
SFCity: Mullins was a more important recruit than Ivan Rabb
Me: Uh...no.
Everyone else: OaktownBear wins!SF, SF, SF. Sigh. Let me point out an important part of my post.Quote:
Where did I say anything about a player who could take us to the next level?I did not disagree with you in any part after the first sentence regarding Ivan Rabb. So in order to find a fight you had to find contradiction where there wasn't and that lead you to further silly arguments. I didn't say you said he could take us to the next level. I was pointing out as an amplification to your argument that Betley isn't a role player that you don't have to be that guy to not be a role player. A starter who plays 25 minutes or more, as I expect Betley to do is not a role player. Grant Mullins was not a role player.Quote:
I agreeYessssss!!!!!!!! That is what production is!!!!!! Pure and simple when you say production dropped you mean that a player's points, rebounds, assists, etc. went down. When a player scores 13 a game and then scores 10 a game his point production went down. Doesn't make him a worse player. In fact, I don't think Mullins was a worse player. Of course there were many things that resulted in the production going down. I was not commenting on him as a player. I was saying his production went down. It did. That is a fact. Not an opinion. He had fewer points (10.3/13.3) fewer rebounds (3.2/3.8) fewer assists (2.0/3.3) lower shooting percentage (40.9/50) and as you documented lower 3 point percentage and FT percentage.Quote:
As to Mullins' production dropping at Cal, once again, aren't you just looking as statistics?
So I stated a fact. In no way disagreeing with you. And you had to find something to fight about. SF, SF, SF. That just leads you to silliness.Exactly!!! My whole point was the production of these guys tends to go down when they move up a level.Quote:
And Mullins was not athletic enough to play "take it to the rim" with the bigs of the PAC12.
What are we fighting about again?
I hesitated for a long time, before I chose what I guessed would probably be a mistake and replied to you. What I knew would happen, happened. You just can not let this Cal fan have an opinion, even a simple liking of a player, or have a favorite player for that matter, which does not concur with your own opinion. I made the statement about Mullins, because I am a proponent of team basketball, and he was the best team player on that team, in my opinion. That made him my favorite player. As a Cal fan, am I not allowed to have a favorite player? One who is different from your favorite(s)? Rabb was my favorite player on the 2016 team, Mullins on the 2017 team. That's all. My favorite team player at Cal in the last decade or so was Jorge. He gave the Cal team less "production" in terms of statistics or numbers than the stars he played with. He gave them the word, "team". Put it in their vocabulary, in their minds. Sacrificed his body and some of his desire to score points, both to help his teams win. He is a throwback to another era, not just an era at Cal, but in basketball in general, where individual defense and teamwork held sway. Basketball today has become more about team play on defense and individual play on offense.
Like Jorge in some respects, Mullins was the glue which held things together on his Cal team. He did not have the numbers that Bird or Rabb or Moore had. Their "production" was better. When I say Mullins was my favorite Cuonzo recruit, it was because he was the one who best exemplified teamwork and team play. He did not fit into the Cuonzo philosophy of take it to the rim. In the previous year, I felt it was so pathetic watching Jordan Mathews, Bird, and Jaylen Brown try to take the ball coast to coast, when none of them had the full court ball handling skills to do that and they all lost the ball trying it. Even Ivan Rabb tried it once. A bad coach can not only not get players to play well together, he can also get them to play worse, by forcing them to play in a system, instead of developing a system to take advantage of players' strengths. He completely took away Jabari's best skill the mid-range game, for example. He took away Ivan Rabb's normal way of playing. I saw Ivan Rabb in high school and I saw how he got doubled and passed to open teammates. At Cal, when he was doubled, he still tried to take it to the rim, per Cuonzo's instructions, or kick it out. He seldom passed to an open inside player.
You said "Clearly your comment about Mullins being the most important recruit was silly." Once again you have misstated what I said, which was, " I consider him to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team." When I say "what he brought to the team" I am talking about attitude, heart, character, toughness, willingness to make teammates look better, sacrificing if necessary, and finally, individual production. Mullins' production was, like Jorge's, not just a matter of box scores. One thing I forgot to mention was Rabb came to Cal, probably expecting, as nearly everyone did, that he would leave early for the NBA. Cal was fortunate that he stayed a second year. Still, he did throw his Cal teammates and the new coach Jones under the bus by throwing away his final two years of eligibility to go play professionally. If Rabb had stayed, Cal would have had a much better team, and Rabb's presence might have led to one or two better recruiting classes for Wyking. Mullins' case was different. He was more like a mercenary. He was given a chance to play at Cal as a grad student, which the Ivy League does not permit. He agreed to give Cal all he could for one season, and in return he got a scholarship and a chance to get a second degree from a prestigious university. He lived up to his agreement with Cal. There was no legal way he could have played a second year for Cal, whereas Rabb could have played two more years for Cal, if he had wanted to. I will stand by my statement, not by your characterization of what you think I said.
So let's take what you said. "I consider him to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team."
Now you say that when you say "what he brought to the team" you mean attitude, heart, character, toughness, willingness to make teammates look better, sacrificing if necessary, and finally, individual production.
So fine. How did I misrepresent that? Plain and simple, no amount of heart, character, toughness, willingness to make teams look better, sacrificing if necessary comes close to making up for the major difference between the two in the last category of actual individual production. Literally no one in this universe agrees with the statement "Grant Mullins was Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team." I wish I could pull an Annie Hall and pull Grant Mullins over because he would tell you that you are wrong. And please explain this chain of events:
Me: You are seriously going to argue that Mullins brought more to the team than Ivan Rabb? Would love to see that argument. (note by the way I used YOUR LANGUAGE "brought more to the team")
Socaltownie: Yup. He did. I am chuckling about that (AGREEING WITH MY STATEMENT)
Your response to Socaltownie: Aw, I just did it to get a chuckle out of you. I like you much better when you are laughing, than when you are so pessimistic or are in attack mode
So you make a statement. I disagree with the statement. Your response to me is to treat it as a personal attack and further argue the point. Socal agrees with my statement and you respond that you just said it to get a chuckle out of him. I'll use my what I learned in my Cal logic class to boil this down.
You: A is true
Me: A is not true
Socal: A is not true
You to Socal. Ha Ha. thought me saying A is true would make ya laugh.
You to me . A IS TRUE! A IS TRUE! HOW DARE YOU PERSONALLY ATTACK ME!!
Here is my post again.
Quote:
You are seriously going to argue that Mullins brought more to the team than Ivan Rabb? Would love to see that argument.
I agree I wouldn't call him a role player. He is likely a starter. There is a middle ground between guy taking you to the next level and role player.
Mullins was more productive than Betley. His production dropped at Cal across the board but was still solid. That is a pretty consistent result from these types of transfers. I'd look for 8 points 4 rebounds. I don't know about defense. Sounds like he wasn't guarding the wing in the Ivy.
You claimed that this was picking a fight with you. Please tell me where the personal attack is. Please tell me where I was picking a fight? POINT OUT THE EXACT POINT WHERE I PICKED A FIGHT. Again. I disagreed with your statement that Mullins brought more to the team than any other Cuonzo recruit. That is not an attack. That is discourse. I then pivoted saying that I agree with you that Betley is not a role player. That was an agreement SF. I then added a little of my own analysis. 1. Mullins was more productive than Betley - that is a factual statement that didn't contradict anything you said. 2. Mullins production dropped when he moved to Cal. Again that is a fact and was not in contridiction to anything you said. 3. That is a consistent result from these types of transfers. Again, that is a fact of statistics. It doesn't contradict anything you said. 4. I'd look for 8 points and 4 rebounds - that is an opinion and prediction based on Betley's current production and the fact that he is moving up a level. It doesn't contradict anything you said. 5. I don't know about his defense - That is a fact. It doesn't contradict anything you said. 6. Sounds like he wasn't guarding the wing in the Ivy. - I gleaned that from a story that said he played the 4 at Penn. I don't know if that is accurate. It doesn't contradict anything you said.
There is no personal attack there. If you see one, point it out. There is only one statement of disagreement. Disagreement is part of discourse. You are free to disagree with me. And, I'm free to disagree with you. I'm going to tell you right now if you would stop seeing attacks from everyone who disagrees with you, you could have a lot more interesting conversations. You make a big deal that you posted first. So? You made a point. I had one sentence of disagreement. IN A POST WHERE I AGREED WITH YOUR MAIN POINT. You posting first doesn't mean that anyone who wants to post an alternate or contradictory opinion can't post without it being picking a fight.
I want to say this again. I liked Grant Mullins. I was glad to get him. He fulfilled what I expected. He was a great team player. I place great value in what Grant Mullins did here. I agree (again. that is "agree") that production isn't everything. Production does not mean value. There are guys who don't have a lot of production that set screens, take charges, have tons of intangibles. Their value is high. Somebody like a Jorge has a value beyond his production and so does Grant. I meant no disrespect to him in saying his production went down at Cal. Production doesn't mean value. It has a specific meaning. It is what you produce. In sports that is statistics. In every sport when they talk about production they mean their stats. In baseball when a hitter's production goes down they mean their average, homeruns, OPS, etc. have dropped. It has a meaning. I was in no way denigrating Grant WHO I LIKE. I was making a simple point. Grant came from the Ivy. His production went down a little. (NOT VALUE. PRODUCTION). On average grad transfers who move to a more competitive conference have their production go down. Betley is coming from the Ivy. I was using Grant as a benchmark to what I think we can expect from Betley. That he should be solid, probably produce a little less than he did at Penn. That is all. I wasn't arguing about Mullins' contribution at Cal. I wasn't arguing with you at all. You imagined all of that because basically if I post "SFCity a great guy" you are going to interpret it as me calling you fat. You see my name and you are all in for a fight.
You claim I "just can't let this Cal fan have an opinion" I'm fine with you having an opinion. That doesn't mean I might not have a different opinion. I submit you are the one having an issue with someone else having a different opinion.
You make a big deal out of my response to you using the word "silly". I was responding to a post that started with "Sometimes we don't see the forest for the trees, do we?". I didn't whine about it at the time, but you didn't introduce your post that way to have a respectful conversation. If you are going to cry over "silly" don't accuse people of not seeing forest for trees. Goose meet gander.
I warned you in my last post that when you see my name you are prone to inventing personal attack and that makes you make silly arguments. This post is a perfect example. You make the point that consider Mullins "to be Cuonzo's best recruit, in terms of what he brought to the team" (copy and pasted to ensure no misrepresentation). I disagree. You double down. I disagree more stringently. You triple down and go to a dark place, denigrating a great bear.
About Rabb you say:
Quote:
he did throw his Cal teammates and the new coach Jones under the bus by throwing away his final two years of eligibility to go play professionally
copied and pasted to ensure no misrepresentation.
This is an absolutely uncalled for smear of a guy who has nothing to do with this argument simply because you have lost all perspective in trying to beat me that you don't care what you say about whom. Ivan Rabb was a local kid who was known as being a great kid in the community who was looked up to at his high school. He had the opportunity to go to several elite programs. He chose to stay home and play at Cal. He did so with great skill and heart and was a great team player. He then had the opportunity to go in the first round and make a ton of money after only one year at Cal. He gave up that chance at great sacrifice, both giving up a year of salary and seeing his draft stock drop. You categorize him as throwing his teammates and coach under the bus by not continuing to sacrifice lots of money and the chance to play at the highest level for two more years. This not only demonstrates your inability to understand that it is no longer 1959, but is an outlandish insult not to me but to Ivan Rabb. You should come to your senses and realize just how bad your behavior is here and apologize to Ivan Rabb.
All this because you can't come to grips with the fact that people aren't trying to attack you all the time. Truly unfortunate.
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