Just saw a post on FB, Charmin Smith is leaving Cal to work with B. Boyd and the NY Liberty!
Charmin Smith leaving
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Last: 5 yr ago by stu
Thanks Charmin for all of your good work at Cal. Wish you the best with your new position!
It's time to hire a charismatic personality to become the assistant HC who will likely be Gottlieb's heir apparent. Hopefully the coach would be strong w/ "Xs & Os" but most importantly be a driven personality that can RECRUIT! This is the time to reshape the coaching staff and rebuild Cal basketball.
It's funny but I know the function of every football coach and their role in recruiting, etc. Granted I have not got that involved with Gottlieb & Co but I'm not aware of the expertise of any of her assistant coaches. Charmin helped with the bigs but I could not rate the HC & her three assistants as far as recruiting...Can someone that is an insider shine the light on this issue, please? All that I know is that Gottlieb & her staff are likeable people.
GO BEARS!
It's funny but I know the function of every football coach and their role in recruiting, etc. Granted I have not got that involved with Gottlieb & Co but I'm not aware of the expertise of any of her assistant coaches. Charmin helped with the bigs but I could not rate the HC & her three assistants as far as recruiting...Can someone that is an insider shine the light on this issue, please? All that I know is that Gottlieb & her staff are likeable people.
GO BEARS!
From the Liberty side.
This will tell us a lot about how Lindsay sees her current situation and recent performance at Cal. Will she go with an experienced coach from a successful program who will come in with new ideas and challenge how some things have been handled in the past. Or will she go with a younger, safer choice who will be less likely to rock the boat.
FWIW I think Lindsay has always kept an open mind. But I have no inside info.annarborbear said:
Or will she go with a younger, safer choice who will be less likely to rock the boat.
Query: why do you think LG maintains an open mind if you have no inside knowledge?
I have heard her talk on a few occasions in public about what she's learned from other coaches. I do not know how decisions are made among the staff but I have also heard her credit her assistants for game-time ideas.bearchamp said:
Query: why do you think LG maintains an open mind if you have no inside knowledge?
Who might be an "experienced coach from a successful program"? Presumably, not a current head coach. Another long term assistant? But one who is experienced but has not yet taken/been offered a head coaching job?annarborbear said:
This will tell us a lot about how Lindsay sees her current situation and recent performance at Cal. Will she go with an experienced coach from a successful program who will come in with new ideas and challenge how some things have been handled in the past. Or will she go with a younger, safer choice who will be less likely to rock the boat.
BTW, Charmin Smith was a "slightly" experienced coach from a successful program (3 years at Stanfurd). How much "experience" is "experienced"?
The issue is what kind of coach is most needed. My view is that recruiting, given Cal's record, is pretty good. Cal needs some size, but is landing quality prospects. Thus, how about an Xs and Os coach? For teaching and strategic issues, I don't think big time experience is relevant. LG can bring on a high school coach for teaching and strategy and expect better performance than has been evident during her tenure.
NOOOOOO!!!!! Charmin is my all-time favorite non-player Cal WBB person. I admire and love her smarts, her sense of humor, and her no-nonsense style. But if she must go somewhere else, I'm glad it's to Brit and her team.
"Don't get distracted, myself. Don't get distracted." Self-talk from a young relative
Three possibilities:ncbears said:Who might be an "experienced coach from a successful program"? Presumably, not a current head coach. Another long term assistant? But one who is experienced but has not yet taken/been offered a head coaching job?annarborbear said:
This will tell us a lot about how Lindsay sees her current situation and recent performance at Cal. Will she go with an experienced coach from a successful program who will come in with new ideas and challenge how some things have been handled in the past. Or will she go with a younger, safer choice who will be less likely to rock the boat.
BTW, Charmin Smith was a "slightly" experienced coach from a successful program (3 years at Stanfurd). How much "experience" is "experienced"?
1. Pick a program you admire and try to hire someone with at least five years of experience from that specific program.
2. Look for an experienced assistant who wants one more stop before seeking a head coaching position. Like Cori Close did in going from the successful UCSB program to Florida State.
3. Find a head coach who wants to step back at the end of their career and be both an associate and a mentor.
Caren Horstmeyer?annarborbear said:
3. Find a head coach who wants to step back at the end of their career and be both an associate and a mentor.
I a role reversal, how above Joanne Boyle?stu said:Caren Horstmeyer?annarborbear said:
3. Find a head coach who wants to step back at the end of their career and be both an associate and a mentor.
Boyle has put family above coaching, for now.wifeisafurd said:I a role reversal, how above Joanne Boyle?stu said:Caren Horstmeyer?annarborbear said:
3. Find a head coach who wants to step back at the end of their career and be both an associate and a mentor.
stu said:
From the Liberty side.
The article credits her for recruiting 10 of the 12 McDonald All Americans.
This seems like a lateral move. Anyone?BearPedz said:
Just saw a post on FB, Charmin Smith is leaving Cal to work with B. Boyd and the NY Liberty!
Unless you know how much she will be making with the Liberty compared to what she was making at Cal, why would you suggest it is a lateral move?
I don't consider working with college players versus professionals a lateral move. Would this even be a question if we were talking about a move from college men versus the NBA?
CONGRATS to Coach Charmin!!!!
I don't consider working with college players versus professionals a lateral move. Would this even be a question if we were talking about a move from college men versus the NBA?
CONGRATS to Coach Charmin!!!!
bearchamp-how can you state that Cal's recruiting is good considering the team's record? Three of the top four scorers are seniors and are graduating...A consensus 2nd team All-American center, Kristine Anigwe, is one of them. The Bears should fall to the bottom of the Pac 12 with the Washington schools & Colorado.
Young coaches have joined the conference [Arizona & Utah] and are out-recruiting Cal and out-coaching Cal.
UCLA & Stanford have recently landed #1 & #2 classes. Oregon State's coach has a system of guards and multiple tall posts that wins year in and year out. USC is bringing in five talented recruits and out-recruits Gottlieb
head-to-head consistently. ASU also has a system of rotating 9-10 players and pressuring the opposition on defensive which holds opponents to the lowest point totals in the conference.
Wake-up and smell the coffee-Cal bball is facing a ***crossroads to rebuild the team and the staff while developing a new identity***.
GO BEARS!
Young coaches have joined the conference [Arizona & Utah] and are out-recruiting Cal and out-coaching Cal.
UCLA & Stanford have recently landed #1 & #2 classes. Oregon State's coach has a system of guards and multiple tall posts that wins year in and year out. USC is bringing in five talented recruits and out-recruits Gottlieb
head-to-head consistently. ASU also has a system of rotating 9-10 players and pressuring the opposition on defensive which holds opponents to the lowest point totals in the conference.
Wake-up and smell the coffee-Cal bball is facing a ***crossroads to rebuild the team and the staff while developing a new identity***.
GO BEARS!
My view is that the recruiting is generally of good quality players. The team has a problem that they haven't closed on any bigs. If you follow what I write here you will see that I think the coaching is abysmal.
I'm asking, not suggesting. But if you want to take the salary angle may be a demotion.kkross22 said:
Unless you know how much she will be making with the Liberty compared to what she was making at Cal, why would you suggest it is a lateral move?
I don't consider working with college players versus professionals a lateral move. Would this even be a question if we were talking about a move from college men versus the NBA?
CONGRATS to Coach Charmin!!!!
She is moving from an associate grad coach collegiate job to an assistant job with the WNBA, which online the NBA, is not known for paying its coaches huge salaries. In fact, top college women's head coach make a lot more than WNBA (at least by more than one digit).
Just so we have this whole questionable NBA analogy in perspective. the average WNBA salary is around $75K versus $838K for the NBA.
If all we're talking about is salary and you know for sure how much she was making at Cal versus how much she will be making with the Liberty, then I could see you maybe posing the question.
However, IMO, even with a salary cut, which from what I have heard does not apply, the experience of coaching pros and the connections she will be making, I don't consider this a lateral move. If anything, she is putting herself in a position for bigger and better things in the future.
However, IMO, even with a salary cut, which from what I have heard does not apply, the experience of coaching pros and the connections she will be making, I don't consider this a lateral move. If anything, she is putting herself in a position for bigger and better things in the future.
During the off season, I recall a discussion on this board about the need for significant changes within the Cal WBB program after another perceived underachieving season. No changes occured. Perhaps Charmin's deserved appointment with the NY Liberty could be a key catalyst for changes to finally occur.
Agree.puget sound cal fan said:
During the off season, I recall a discussion on this board about the need for significant changes within the Cal WBB program after another perceived underachieving season. No changes occured. Perhaps Charmin's deserved appointment with the NY Liberty could be a key catalyst for changes to finally occur.
Timing is good too. The Women's Basketball Coaches Association (WBCA) has their convention as part of the Final Four festivities in Tampa Bay this weekend. Great opportunity for Coach Gottlieb to connect and network with other coaches,
After Kianna's announcement, it will be interesting to see which coach is willing to jump on to this particular ship. We have now lost our top four leading scorers, all of whom averaged more than 30 minutes a game. So by any measure, it is now a total rebuild with a combination of bench players and the new recruits.
I don't know anything about Coach Smith's ability as a coach, but maybe this is the first, and hopefully, a constructive step toward getting some good coaching.
It has been hard to tell who does what in this organization but I am getting the feeling that she is going to be really missed.bearchamp said:
I don't know anything about Coach Smith's ability as a coach, but maybe this is the first, and hopefully, a constructive step toward getting some good coaching.
Question: was Smith the successful recruiter? Is Kiana's departure because Smith is leaving?
I think when someone needed a little tough love Charmin could provide it. Also she and Lindsay have been working together so long I'm sure her absence will be felt. Finally she has high-level playing experience.GATC said:
It has been hard to tell who does what in this organization but I am getting the feeling that she is going to be really missed.
When you watch Michigan State today, Tom Izzo has three assistants on his staff who flamed out as head coaches - Mike Garland, Dane Fife and Doug Wojcik - but who know how to help a team prepare and win in the context of the MSU program. To have any chance of turning our own situation around, I think LG does still need to find a very experienced associate, and not someone out of the same Joanne Boyle tree or with only limited experience. Without that, we are all going to be just biding our time waiting for the next two years to end,
One has to remember that coaches making moves may not be doing so only for their own interests. Often, coaches are part of a couple and perhaps moves are made to also accommodate a partner/spouse's interest. I'm not suggesting this is the case with Charmin, but everyone seems to forget that sometimes there's more at play than a unilateral decision.
my opinion is Charmin is a huge loss to our coaching staff and in recruiting
A few things I'd look for in a new coach:
Good with defense. I think that was the difference between this team and our Final Four team.
Good at player evaluation. We may not get another roster filled with HS All-Americans but we can identify and recruit some less-heralded players with talent.
National and international recruiting connections. The Pac-12 has become too competitive for us to find all of our recruits in our back yard.
Good with defense. I think that was the difference between this team and our Final Four team.
Good at player evaluation. We may not get another roster filled with HS All-Americans but we can identify and recruit some less-heralded players with talent.
National and international recruiting connections. The Pac-12 has become too competitive for us to find all of our recruits in our back yard.
I noticed Coach G started following (and vice versa) NC State's assistant coach and recruiting coordinator Lindsay Edmonds.
NC State is a VERY impressive program right now. They finished the season ranked #9 losing to 2 seed Iowa in the Sweet Sixteen despite losing Grace Hunter (then their leading scorer) mid-season. Up until that point they were undefeated at 14-0, ultimately finished a still solid 28-6.
They have recruited well recently, too, though mostly in-state prospects and nearby Georgia. They did, however, sign the top international prospect from the c/o 2016 out of Canada, acquired a stellar transfer Armani Hawkins from Arizona State, and their latest class featured a McDonald's All-American from Maryland considered a big-time get.
At face value, I can think of worse replacements for Charmin Smith.
NC State is a VERY impressive program right now. They finished the season ranked #9 losing to 2 seed Iowa in the Sweet Sixteen despite losing Grace Hunter (then their leading scorer) mid-season. Up until that point they were undefeated at 14-0, ultimately finished a still solid 28-6.
They have recruited well recently, too, though mostly in-state prospects and nearby Georgia. They did, however, sign the top international prospect from the c/o 2016 out of Canada, acquired a stellar transfer Armani Hawkins from Arizona State, and their latest class featured a McDonald's All-American from Maryland considered a big-time get.
At face value, I can think of worse replacements for Charmin Smith.
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