Griner and Kristine have history when she was with the Sun. Griner doesn't like physical post players guarding her.

Not a good look from Anigwe ...

Running away after you've hit someone (or tried to) is bad form, I have to say. Maybe if you pretend you want to fight, someone will hold you back ...

Kristine did show some footwork and quickness on the retreat, though.

Big Bad Griner stalked after Anigwe as Anigwe gave a great imitation of terrified prey.

What is the tea? The girls are fighting!

Honestly confused by what exactly transpired to instigate such a fracas and don't wish to keep rewatching to figure it out.

SFCalBear, can you elaborate on the history?

I can see Kristine being an annoying defender but it's curious she would have any history with any opponent given such limited minutes.

Ironically, the awkward linking/unlinking of arms did kind of resemble Griner's big blowup with the Texas Tech player while at Baylor.

Griner punched the ref - that has got to be a good size suspension, even though he was not really the intended target. But once the ref grabs hold do you, you gotta let go. Van Exel sat the rest of the season.

I think opposing teams would be very happy to take Griner out of the game in return for a present day role player like young Christine. Griner needs to learn she is a target and deal with it. Really wasn't much to start with, just some holding, though I understand from the press reports Christine and Griner have some history. Doesn't matter: Griner needs to know she is too valuable and her teammates need to instead return the favor like James Worthy's avenge on the Celtic players for clotheslining Kareem and Rambis.

wow, several players (both teams) and two refs tried to stop her. if it wasn't for the male ref she might have chased down KA, although Kristine was retreating pretty fast

hard to say what happened, as we all just saw the clip where the incident happened. Not sure what else happened earlier in the game, or before. That one clip showed arm hooking/locking, Griner arm bars (physical, but I think legal in that situation), a Griner clear out with her arm to the face of KA, a KA arm pull and what looked like a swat or punch.

at 6-9, Griner is so much bigger and stronger than any of her opponents, and from that one clip plays extremely physical. Not sure how anyone can go up against her one-on-one.

They also faced each other when Baylor played the Cal Bears.

HoopDreams said:

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wow, several players (both teams) and two refs tried to stop her. if it wasn't for the male ref she might have chased down KA, although Kristine was retreating pretty fast

hard to say what happened, as we all just saw the clip where the incident happened. Not sure what else happened earlier in the game, or before. That one clip showed arm hooking/locking, Griner arm bars (physical, but I think legal in that situation), a Griner clear out with her arm to the face of KA, a KA arm pull and what looked like a swat or punch.

at 6-9, Griner is so much bigger and stronger than any of her opponents, and from that one clip plays extremely physical. Not sure how anyone can go up against her one-on-one.

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Griner's coach that said Kristine has gone after Griner several times in other games "and that should be taken into account." . She seemed to acknowledge that some suspensions are coming down saying something to the effect, we will accept what is coming and that we need to be less emotional.

It seems like Griner and Anigwe did have some physical battling in the paint while Kristine was in Connecticut, but I suspect Griner's coach may now be working that angle to try and minimize Griner's punishment.

Regardless of how culpable Kristine may or may not be for the incident, overall I think it's a testament to the fact that she relies too much on her physical gifts/athleticism and blue collar style.

Though overshadowed by her rebounding heroics, Kristine's senior season FG% was a career low. Though obscured by her fouling issues, I thought Reshanda Gray on the other hand showed a lot more improvement to her game over her Cal career.

Kristine should be studying other posts in the WNBA instead of scrapping with them.

puget sound cal fan said:

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They also faced each other when Baylor played the Cal Bears.

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They actually did not overlap in college (not even close, really). Griner graduated spring of 2013, Anigwe started fall of 2015.

Though indeed, Griner and co. played at Haas during Boyle's penultimate season at Cal and Gottlieb drew Baylor 3 times in the NCAA's.

I have an old-school attitude about this: If you're going to be a physical player, and try to get under a better player's skin by doing so, then you have to be ready for the consequences -- which is the better (bigger) player coming after you. And at that point, you don't run. You stay physical and stand up for yourself.

Anigwe is willing, apparently, to be physical as long as there are limited consequences, which just doesn't sit well with me.

Can't say this is logical, or really makes sense, but it's how I feel players should approach the way they decide to play the game. (I've always been a physical player -- a bad one, granted -- but that means, to me, I can't complain if someone is physical in return.)

Please, you really want Kristine not to run away. BG was ready to throw a major punch, her arm was way back with a clenched fist. It could have been a KO punch, and cause much damage if the blow hit her face.

Ktistine had 2 and sometimes 3 players all over her under the basket. She was called out about her elbows when going up to the basket. She corrected it.

Unfortunately, BG has been, and still is taunted about being a male. Muffet Mcgraw said after a loss to Baylor, it is not fair, she plays like a guy. BG reacts physically. Also, their has been
domestic violence in one relationship just before the couple got married.

It is also said she is not fan friendly. I feel badly for her, but she has to control her temper. Diana Turasi blamed the
refs as the game was so physical in the first half, they called many fouls. The refs let them play very aggressively in the second half, and did not call many fouls. So, Diana Turasi called out the refs for letting the game get out of hand.

Kristine does not have a lot of bulk on her frame, so she is probably roughed up under the basket.

It was unclear what was actually said, so I'm reserving judgment. I'm more irritated with "Good Morning America," which saw fit to discuss the altercation--as the mainstream media like to do when it's a matter of violence or sex among female athletes: scandal as opposed to achievement.

(I have an old-school attitude, too: I think an experienced professional should have learned how to control his or her temper. Griner's been in this situation several times before, probably more; I hope she knows better.)

I watched it at 1/4 speed on youtube:

Here's what I think I'm seeing:
0:02 Griner elbows Anigwe in the back of the neck.
0:03 Griner elbows Anigwe in the back of the head.
0:04 Griner hits Anigwe with a forearm to the face.
0:05a Anigwe angrily turns and pulls Griner's arm, allowing Griner to deliver another forearm to the face and grab Anigwe by the back of her jersey.
0:05b Anigwe separates with a swat/push to the face, turning to try and escape.
0:06 Griner makes a fist with her other hand and prepares to punch Anigwe, but Anigwe escapes her grasp.
0:07a Griner closes in on the retreating Anigwe and attempts to deliver a punch with all her strength
0:07b Isabelle Harrison intervenes, denying Griner a clear shot at her teammate.
0:08 Anigwe turns and flees up the court.
0:09+ Two referees, one Phoenix player, and 4 Dallas players attempt to prevent Griner from attacking Anigwe
0:10 Griner pushes the female referee out of the way with an elbow to the jaw.
0:12 Bear hugs by teammate Alanna Smith and the male referee succeed in slowing Griner's chase.
0:13 Smith takes an elbow to the face from Griner as she tries to break free.
0:14 Yvonne Turner attempts to help stop Griner, who pushes her face away.
0:15 Griner attempts to punch Turner, but Turner is pulled away to safety by a teammate and a coach.

We all see things through our own biases, and no doubt I'm biased in favor of Kristine. I do think she lost her cool and acted inappropriately when she turned and pulled Griner after the made basket. However, once Griner became enraged and appeared to be going after her with the apparent intent to do as much physical harm as possible, Kristine handled the situation as well as anyone could. Standing her ground would have be far worse for everyone involved.

Griner, on the other hand, comes from a different cultural background than my own (or Anigwe's, I believe). How she was taught to handle conflicts is very different from what what most of learned growing up.

Griner is a star. There won't be much justice in how the league handlers her physical play or how they deal out penalties for these altercations. Anigwe will have to learn to accept her role in Griner's league, just like she learned to accept her role in Stanford/Oregon's league last year. Enjoy the games and experiences, and don't fret the injustices.

I note on rebkell.net that people were snarking K.A. a bit for lacking "street cred," or giving up on an opportunity to attain some. If someone 6'9" had been after me under the circumstances R90 relates, I, too, might turn tail and get the hell out of there before she broke my jaw. I watched Kristine play dozens of games that involved being double- and triple-teamed by other big posts. As far as I'm concerned, she's already got street cred.

well the entire scene was ugly. one thing for sure is KA's teammates really had her back. It could have ended much worse if they didn't step in, and the way Griner was charging and punching, it took a lot of courage to do so, especially players from KA's team

I wonder if it's in the team's scouting report:

What to do if Griner blows her top?

After watching the replay in slow-mo I totally concur with the aforementioned sequence. Anigwe was never the aggressor but always was just attempting to get away. This is different than how it initially appeared which was that she hit and ran. Her downward motion was just to protect herself from Griners left hand which was coming at her unseen by their bodies. You can see that it was totally extended as Anigwe pulled away. Anigwe was not the instigator and did the right thing to extricate her self from the situation. I had originally thought she was chicken by hitting and then running. I hope the officials take the time to study the sequence as it occurred. But then they have seldom gotten replays right. I came to this conclusion using stop motion of the slow-mo replay.

We all see things differently ... in the stop motion sequence on RebKell, Griner's arm moves up and makes contact with Anigwe's head and/or neck. Hard to tell how intentional.

For me, I then see Anigwe grab Griner's arm and forcibly pull her away from the basket. Understandable, if she thought the contact was intentional.

Griner then reacts to Anigwe's action, understandably, but for whatever reason, overreacts and goes berserk.

As for Anigwe running, I can understand other points of view but for me, if she's going to grab someone's arm and throw them, then she's got an obligation to stand up and accept the consequences. If you do something that you know might start a fight, then you don't run home to mama if one actually breaks out.

ClayK said:

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As for Anigwe running, I can understand other points of view but for me, if she's going to grab someone's arm and throw them, then she's got an obligation to stand up and accept the consequences.

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I can understand yours too, but we definitely have different cultural perspectives on Anigwe's obligation here.

I expect that if she had stood her ground, it would have been extremely ugly.



When you can't trust authorities to protect your rights you have to stand up for yourself. This is common in poor settings where the police often don't have the time or interest in resolving conflicts. A major downside of this is that conflicts tend to escalate, leading to fights and even homicides.

WNBA announced suspensions this morning.

Griner 3 games
Anigwe 2 games

R90 said:

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ClayK said:

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As for Anigwe running, I can understand other points of view but for me, if she's going to grab someone's arm and throw them, then she's got an obligation to stand up and accept the consequences.

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I can understand yours too, but we definitely have different cultural perspectives on Anigwe's obligation here.

I expect that if she had stood her ground, it would have been extremely ugly.



When you can't trust authorities to protect your rights you have to stand up for yourself. This is common in poor settings where the police often don't have the time or interest in resolving conflicts. A major downside of this is that conflicts tend to escalate, leading to fights and even homicides.

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R90 makes a good point. In her memoir, Griner wrote about being bullied for years at school and having "issues" with her father. Such people tend to be easily triggered in certain situations. I think Griner a courageous woman, as well as a great athlete. Still--she's 28 now, and capable of figuring out better ways to cope on the basketball court than punching someone out.

SFCALBear72 said:

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WNBA announced suspensions this morning.

Griner 3 games
Anigwe 2 games

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Not at all surprised. Just like the NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, NCAA, WWF, etc., it's about entertainment dollars, not justice, sportsmanship or fair play.

Griner is entertaining.

The WNBA needs to pretend Anigwe did something really bad or more criticism goes to Griner and she loses marquee value.

Oh I think Kristine's mad dash from Griner was iconic.

And the reality is she picked the right player to run from as regardless of the circumstances whenever Griner is a trending topic the trolls will always find an angle to ridicule her.

More and more it looks and sounds like players in the WNBA are just not happy with the gig. The league is in a sad state and the future looks bleak.

Wow, don't remember this ever being discussed on here. That's a dirty move.

I was at this game close to the floor. (Washington State)I think Kristine Anigwe did not have control of the ball and bounced it off her opponent to go out of bounds. Post players are knocked around constantly under the basket. People are quick to condemn Kristine. I watched her play for four years. She is just out of college, and trying to survive in the WNBA where the Post Players are taller, bigger, and stronger then she is. BG is tremendous, is an experienced WNBA player, and it is hard to believe she would retaliate so vehemently. I dont know if Kristine will make it in the WNBA, and BG is a major star. The WNBA needs to pay the players what they are worth.

willtalk said:

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After watching the replay in slow-mo I totally concur with the aforementioned sequence. Anigwe was never the aggressor but always was just attempting to get away. This is different than how it initially appeared which was that she hit and ran. Her downward motion was just to protect herself from Griners left hand which was coming at her unseen by their bodies. You can see that it was totally extended as Anigwe pulled away. Anigwe was not the instigator and did the right thing to extricate her self from the situation....

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+1

I watched the replay several times and agree with willtalk on this.

I think KA did the right thing by running away to avoid a huge fight with a very angry, very aggressive, much bigger player.

Griner (who has a checkered past on anger management) continued to fight even when she was restrained by several other players (including her own teammates) and a referee. She kept on throwing punches and even punched a referee. That is even more evidence that KA did the right thing by trying to extricate herself from the situation.

I think WBBA handing down only a three game suspension to Griner and a two game suspension to KA is extremely unfair. I think Griner's suspension is much much too light and KA's is more than what it should be.

We all know that the WNBA (like most sport leagues) is trying to protect their superstar veteran (Griner) and lay the blame on a rookie (KA). If the roles were reversed, and KA has done what Griner did, I would think KA would be suspended for the season and Griner would be playing the next game.

Go Bears!

P.S. OK, that closing "Go Bears!" shows my biase.

R90 said:

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SFCALBear72 said:

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WNBA announced suspensions this morning.

Griner 3 games
Anigwe 2 games

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Not at all surprised. Just like the NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, NCAA, WWF, etc., it's about entertainment dollars, not justice, sportsmanship or fair play.

Griner is entertaining.

The WNBA needs to pretend Anigwe did something really bad or more criticism goes to Griner and she loses marquee value.

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I'm surprised, but I guess the refs in the WNBA don't have much pull, This happens in the NBA (where you strike a NBA ref, even when admittedly the ref is not your target) you are sitting for a long time. Even if you are star, though I assume stars are cut more slack. You wonder with such light sentencing if the WNBA won't have a Kermit Washington moment.

wbbilluminati said:

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Wow, don't remember this ever being discussed on here. That's a dirty move.

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Alternative explanation: Anigwe is off balance and quickly, reactively throws the ball off the opponent to avoid the travel. She then shows a quick expression of regret when she sees where she hit the player, but doesn't stop to apologize.

None of us can know what she was thinking without asking her, but it certainly wasn't against the rules or especially violent. Players throw the ball off each other much harder when going out of bounds.

Ashfield63 said:

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I was at this game close to the floor. (Washington State)I think Kristine Anigwe did not have control of the ball and bounced it off her opponent to go out of bounds. Post players are knocked around constantly under the basket. People are quick to condemn Kristine. I watched her play for four years. She is just out of college, and trying to survive in the WNBA where the Post Players are taller, bigger, and stronger then she is. BG is tremendous, is an experienced WNBA player, and it is hard to believe she would retaliate so vehemently. I dont know if Kristine will make it in the WNBA, and BG is a major star. The WNBA needs to pay the players what they are worth.

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I'm actually the one that's never been quick to condemn KA on this board. During her junior season "slump" she was the topic of much criticism and speculation and I made it a point to defend her/give her the benefit of the doubt. For example, someone posted that Kelly Graves had tweeted (then deleted) that KA flipped him off during a game and while others disparaged her for it I downplayed it and said Graves was corny for tweeting about it.

Anyway, I rewatched the WSU incident video with an open mind after you suggested she was trying to bounce the ball off the WSU player out of bounds, but unfortunately it really doesn't look that way. She's not tip-toeing the baseline at all but well within bounds, she actually throws the ball right after she's regained her balance so she's not falling or stumbling about to commit a traveling violation, she has perfectly good possession of the ball with both hands (so much so that she's actually able to cock the ball back before throwing it), and with how close she releases the ball from the player when throwing it and the angles between her and her target and the trajectory of the throw the ball had no chance of ever going out of bands but rather the total opposite direction.

At best, I'd say maybe KA felt like the WSU post was undercutting her, wanted to send a message, but didn't mean to peg her square on the face/head as she did but rather just hit her somewhere with the ball.

That said, I'm still 100% rooting for KA! But becoming increasingly frustrated and disappointed by her untapped potential and these incidents, to me, imply she's focusing on the wrong things.

wbbilluminati said:

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She's not tip-toeing the baseline at all but well within bounds, she actually throws the ball right after she's regained her balance so she's not falling or stumbling about to commit a traveling violation,

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Watch again, please, and consider:

As I see it, Anigwe is off balance, leaning forward and actually stumbling with her left foot. (Look at the angle and movement of her lower left leg in the live clip.) Then she has to pick her right foot up to step over the WSU player to regain her balance.

I wasn't suggesting she was in danger of going out of bounds, but rather that she was in danger of traveling (after being undercut by the player's effort to draw a charge, which resulted in a blocking foul).

KA caught the ball and was trying not to walk so threw the ball off the fallen player

No malice in her face or demeanor
Foul was on opponent

Nothing to see here

R90 said:

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wbbilluminati said:

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She's not tip-toeing the baseline at all but well within bounds, she actually throws the ball right after she's regained her balance so she's not falling or stumbling about to commit a traveling violation,

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Watch again, please, and consider:

As I see it, Anigwe is off balance, leaning forward and actually stumbling with her left foot. (Look at the angle and movement of her lower left leg in the live clip.) Then she has to pick her right foot up to step over the WSU player to regain her balance.

I wasn't suggesting she was in danger of going out of bounds, but rather that she was in danger of traveling (after being undercut by the player's effort to draw a charge, which resulted in a blocking foul).

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I did consider the traveling concern but looks to me like she regained her footing before throwing (albeit by a split second). Her expression is surprised when it hits the WSU player's face/forehead so I don't think she meant to hit her specifically there. And of course neither the refs nor broadcasters seemed to see anything malicious.

But she drops her arms thus was not trying to catch the ball back after bouncing it off the player to regain possession, and the ball had no chance of ricocheting out of bounds (especially w/ her downward motion in throwing). Obviously the ideal move would have been to peek behind and find CJ to pass to.

I guess to my eyes, I see zero possibility of the ball ricocheting out of bounds (as a matter of physics) thus assume such wasn't the intention, and she might as well just chuck the ball up for grabs to avoid traveling. But maybe it was just a poor idea that was executed even more poorly.

Anywayyy, the refs and announcers didn't seem to see anything malicious so there's that important piece.

I should've said "a suspicious" instead of "a dirty move." B/c my main critique or disappointment is that KA has not developed more and relies on frenzied blue collar play, her physical gifts, and willingness to play physical, which will limit her chances in the WNBA (and also land her in sticky situations like these).

I wonder if Devanei had been on staff throughout KA's Cal career (recall Dev returned and was a student assistant during KA's frosh season) might she have been a good mentor for KA's development and learning the right way to dish and take physical post play.

I don't care much for a players history. Each incident should he judged separately in context. I also was very critical of KA in my original response on other forums. However, when I really watched the replay multiple times in slow stop motion, a lot of details that were missed came into play. Some things are hidden by both players bodies and others happen so fast that they are easy to miss.

One thing that is totally missed, and I even missed it after multiple replays, was that Griner hit Anigwe in the head with the back of her hand as Anigwe has already backed up far from Griner that that is the only part of her long arm extension to be able to reach her. For most of the time, Anigwe is only attempting to extract herself form Griner.

I know I said I would not consider history, but in this case, it is relevant. I did not see the game, but word has it that Griner was upset at Anigwe physically during their last meeting. Now that game might have given Griner justification, but this game I could see none. It appears from the action I saw, especially from the slow mo replay that Griner was attempting from the beginning to physically punish Anigwe in one form or the other. Anigwe's so-called pull of the arm was in context with attempting to get away from Griner who had locked her up. In that Anigwe went a bit over the line, but it was in response to get away. Her overhanded swing at Griner was also done while she was backing up and possibly in response to what Griner was attempting but hidden by her body from the video.

Griners level of aggression certainly deserved more than one game more than those that did not have to be restrained and threw no punches well after the action. It appears her threat to the league served it's the purpose in intimidating them into giving her less than she deserved. in respect to the other suspensions handed out.