BASEBALL: Any reactions to the huge penalties laid down against the Houston Astros

2,484 Views | 12 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by calbearinamaze
calbearinamaze
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One aspect of this is the (mis)use of technology in all of baseball.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28476780/astros-jeff-luhnow-aj-hinch-fired-sign-stealing
swan
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I am a fan of MLB and am following Astrogate pretty closely. My reaction at this point is that what has been handed down so far is simply not enough.
The relevant facts:

Stealing signs is ok in baseball in most situations eg if the pitcher tips his selection by some repeated move, or if a runner on second can decode and flash information to the batter. Even studying video of the catcher signals before the game is ok.

But what is not ok is using electronic aids including video to steal signs and transmit to the batter in real time.
In Sept 2017 MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred fined the Boston Red Sox , then managed by ex-Astro Alex Cora, for using electronic aids in illegally stealing signs. Moreover, Manfred went on to stress "All 30 clubs have been notified that future violations of this type will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks".

While it it appears likely that possibly multiple clubs employed sign stealing schemes using video/electronic aids before Sept 2017, only the Astros and the Red Sox are under active investigations for ignoring Manfred;s Sept 2017 warning. But the Astros continued to cheat throughout the 2017 post-season.
MLB in its report confirms the Astros stole signs at home in the 2017 post-season. Notably the Astros eliminated the Yankees 4-3 games, by winning all 4 home games, where they outperformed significantly on almost all batting metrics.

Beyond the chump change penalty and loss of a couple of draft slots, the Astro ownership gets off scot free. This is wrong. I believe that the Astros should be stripped of the 2017 championship, but really no need to name a different champion as both the Yankees or Dodgers both have standing. So do any number of teams and pitchers victimized by the Astros in 2017.

I am curious about what baseball will do with Cora and the 2018 champion Red Sox. Cora probably will get a large suspension, but the Sox undoubtedly get to keep their crown.
And who says " cheaters never prosper".
calbearinamaze
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swan said:


And who says " cheaters never prosper".
Thanks for your analysis.

Cora was fired very quickly. We haven't heard the last of this....to which I say, "Good."

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28486412/two-managers-gone-two-days-losing-alex-cora-aj-hinch-means-baseball

BTW: Houston had zero lefties on the roster. I get the analytics.....but that seems "wrong" to me.
swan
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Thanks Bearup. As most observers expected, Cora and the Sox have parted way, but MLB will likely have their say as well re Cora's future in baseball. Another fascinating outcome involves new Mets manager Carlos Beltran who is named in the MLB report along with Cora as being one of the main figures in creating and maintaining the cheating schemes. But his role happened while being an active player, which brings the Player's Union into the equation.

There is an interesting video of Astro disgraced manger AJ Hinch, a Stanford man btw, smirking ( and possibly lying) his way through an interview responding to charges by the Yankees of illegal sign stealing in the 2019 ALCS. I think many baseball insiders are happy to see the arrogant Astros being put under the bright lights.

I don't think it would take much for MLB to examine every pitch thrown by opposing teams with full audio in the 2017, 2018 and 2019 post-season play to determine if a pattern of sign stealing and sign transmission occurred, and most importantly, if it impacted the outcome of any game. I believe the answer is very obvious in the 2017 ALSC series but curious about the other years, I would focus on 2017 and beyond since that is the period when all teams were put on notice that use of electronics to steal signs would not be tolerated.

Yes, it irks me that Astros (and possibly the Red Sox) players who played in 2017 (and 2018 ) can ever be referred to as champions. That's why I am in favor of vacating the title if analysis supports a finding that illegal sign stealing changed the outcome of games. Knowing what pitch is coming is a huge advantage to an MLB caliber batter.
joe amos yaks
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Get Bregman.
"Those who say don't know, and those who know don't say." - LT
calbearinamaze
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joe amos yaks said:

Get Alex Bregman.
LOL

Screw him & Hinch.

Hinch = FURD (more sense could not be made)
calbearinamaze
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swan said:



Beyond the chump change penalty and loss of a couple of draft slots, the Astro ownership gets off scot free. This is wrong. I believe that the Astros should be stripped of the 2017 championship, but really no need to name a different champion as both the Yankees or Dodgers both have standing. So do any number of teams and pitchers victimized by the Astros in 2017.

What real harm is done to the owners if Houston is stripped of the title? They've already gotten their precious money off the "victory".

Astro fans lose big-time. Attendance will probably drop...........going forward.
calbearinamaze
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joe amos yaks said:

Get Bregman.
Even if there's absolutely no truth to this, the negative pub is well-deserved

https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2020-01-16-carlos-beltrans-niece-says-jose-altuve-alex-bregman-wore-buzzers-at-bat/
swan
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And I guess we can add to the thread the unbelievably asinine comments by ESPN and Met's employee (and ex-Stanford softball player) Jessica Mendoza who publicly expressed her dismay at Mike Fiers revealing of the Astros cheating scheme. I personally found her a grating presence on ESPN baseball broadcasts and I can only hope she is soon replaced.
calbearinamaze
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swan said:

And I guess we can add to the thread the unbelievably asinine comments by ESPN and Met's employee (and ex-Stanford softball player) Jessica Mendoza who publicly expressed her dismay at Mike Fiers revealing of the Astros cheating scheme. I personally found her a grating presence on ESPN baseball broadcasts and I can only hope she is soon replaced.
She tried to walk-back her comments and come off sounding even more like a "bleep".

AJ = FURD

now you tell me

Jessica = FURD

I sense a pattern... smh
calbearinamaze
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This thread is informative, funny, sad, etc.

That a sports-icon of Jose Altuve's "stature" is even mentioned in this scandal is mind-boggling.

If you scroll down far enough, you'll see that some Yankee fans counter the general trend of the thread

https://twitter.com/UnhingedYankees/status/1217903113954263040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1217903113954263040&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbearinsider.com%2Fforums%2F5%2Ftopics%2F93680
[url=https://twitter.com/UnhingedYankees/status/1217903113954263040][/url]
swan
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Did the Astros illegal sign stealing impact the 2017 post-season?

Baller4
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bearup said:

joe amos yaks said:

Get Alex Bregman.
LOL

Screw him & Hinch.

Hinch = FURD (more sense could not be made)
They got what they deserved, but if you are going to create that equation,

Larry Baer = Cal

And what he did is much worse than stealing signs.

And yes, Jessica Mendoza should have not said anything on the matter. it is not because of her attendance at Stanford, it is because she wants to fit into the MLB circle. So now all of you will cry that I am defending Furd, but give me a break here!
calbearinamaze
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Baller4 said:

bearup said:

joe amos yaks said:

Get Alex Bregman.
LOL

Screw him & Hinch.

Hinch = FURD (more sense could not be made)
They got what they deserved, but if you are going to create that equation,

Larry Baer = Cal

And what he did is much worse than stealing signs.
t d yes, Jessica Mendoza should have not said anything on the matter. it is not because of her attendance at Stanford, it is because she wants to fit into the MLB circle. So now all of you will cry that I am defending Furd, but give me a break here!
*As a NATS fan......Hinch and Bregman were just plain annoying during the WS

*Not having any lefties on the roster goes along with the Astro's apparent know-it-all mentality

*I find it funny....more than anything else....that both Hinch and Mendoza went to Stanfurd
.....................nothing more than that.

*I looked up a video of Baer.What a JERK.
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