I just ordered helltopay1 an autographed framed copy of this. Will drop it off in early am hours at center court Rossmoor.





*A handwriting analyst of the autograph opines the signer has dementia

helltopay1 said:

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1) If Russia only invades a little bit and doesn't kill too many people, chances are it's ok
2) If we win the elections this fall, it's normal and good...If they win, they cheated





Joe Biden. President of the new Banana Republic...

BTW, If Biden goes soft on Putin, is that an example of
Russian collusion???Just asking...

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I would basically "give" Ukraine to Russia, though I wouldn't phrase it like that. As far as I'm concerned, they can "have" all the countries that directly border them to the west, except Finland.

We were headed to be friends with post-USSR Russia, until the talk about Ukraine joining NATO. We are not now natural enemies with Russia. This is all hype and bad diplomacy. Russia and the US have mutual interests. We should grow those.

This is not a domino theory deal, like we feared in the 1960s. Russia was attacked by first Napoleon, then Hitler. They feel like they need a buffer zone. We should set up a carrot-and-stick deal with them, so they don't commit any atrocities or do anything totally against the will of the Ukrainian people.

I'd set it up so it doesn't come across as a "policy of appeasement". Putin is a despot, but he's content to be that in his own realm. His own people can choose to deal with him, or not.

Several years ago I read a story about a couple of Ukrainian mercenaries that got bushwhacked by the Taliban. These guys fought like demons for hours killing hundreds of Taliban. My takeaway: Putin can't lay waste to the Ukraine anymore than we could bomb the dams in Hanoi. So Russia will do a slow bleed out in the Ukraine fighting those psychopaths with reluctant conscripts in a guerrilla war. Not an attractive prospect.

We'll fight to the end.' Ukraine defiant in face of Vladimir Putin's phoney war | Ukraine | The Guardian


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/15/well-fight-to-the-end-ukraine-defiant-in-face-of-vladimir-putins-phoney-war

Big C said:

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NATO is a vestige of the 20th century.

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Trump questions US commitment to NATO, says the quiet part out loud.

In gesture to Trump, US allies close to deal to pay more for NATO running costs

BearForce2 said:

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Big C said:

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NATO is a vestige of the 20th century.

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Trump questions US commitment to NATO, says the quiet part out loud.

In gesture to Trump, US allies close to deal to pay more for NATO running costs

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If you scour the archives, how many times would you find me referring to Trump as a brilliant visionary? Ten? Twenty? Do your own research!

Even though I would let Putin have Ukraine, my foreign policy towards Russia would differ quite a bit from Trump's. There's a great deal of international relations nuance there. Also, Putin isn't holding a pee tape over my head.

The 'pee tape." Discredited five years ago, but certain myths continue. sad...

helltopay1 said:

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The 'pee tape." Discredited five years ago, but certain myths continue. sad...

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Can you prove there is no pee tape? I thought not. Anyway, all I said was that Putin doesn't have a pee tape on me. Which he doesn't. Of course, I can't prove that either, though I was very stern when I told him to shut off the cameras...

Nostrovia, comrade!

Ukraine is a complicated question. The country its not a NATO member. It is also not exactly a shining example of a democracy. If we walk away, some bad actors might construe the walking as an act of appeasement. We all remember when Britain appeased Germany . To complicate matters, Germany is becoming dependent on Russia for her energy supplies. Damn Germany!!!!!Germany just vetoed giving Ukraine much needed military supplies. Such stinginess is not without antecedents. obama famously gave Ukraine sandwiches and night goggles when Putin launched his excursion into Crimea.

china is watching. If we walk, would they launch an invasion of Taiwan after the winter games???We walked after China annexed Hong Kong just a few months go. The US and NATO currently have weak leadership. Weak leadership breeds instability and instability often gives rise to bad actors flexing their muscles. This is probably more dangerous than we know.

C!!!!!!You know that you cannot prove a negative..."mr. Kavanaugh......can you prove you are not a rapist?"
Now that we know that the entire Steele dossier was conceived and paid for Hillary and the DNC and disseminated by Mr. Steele who had a great animus toward Trump, what can we deduce about the 'pee tape?'
Don't get me wrong.....If Trump were presented with that opportunity , and, if he had some vodka that day, well, who knows what sexual fantasies lurks in the minds of mere mortals???All I'm saying is that 99.9% of the Steele dossier is BS, then maybe the figure is 100%. So----sue me!!!!

helltopay1 said:

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C!!!!!!You know that you cannot prove a negative..."mr. Kavanaugh......can you prove you are not a rapist?"
Now that we know that the entire Steele dossier was conceived and paid for Hillary and the DNC and disseminated by Mr. Steele who had a great animus toward Trump, what can we deduce about the 'pee tape?'
Don't get me wrong.....If Trump were presented with that opportunity , and, if he had some vodka that day, well, who knows what sexual fantasies lurks in the minds of mere mortals???All I'm saying is that 99.9% of the Steele dossier is BS, then maybe the figure is 100%. So----sue me!!!!

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The Steele Dossier let us know that Trump was working on a real estate deal with Russia during the 2016 Presidential campaign. Trump was lying about it but the Steele Dossier was accurate.

The bobbleheads over at Fox News seem to have forgotten how embarrassing Trump was… pic.twitter.com/Xdg5FGfwdV

— Jimmy Kimmel Live (@JimmyKimmelLive) January 21, 2022

bearister said:

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Several years ago I read a story about a couple of Ukrainian mercenaries that got bushwhacked by the Taliban. These guys fought like demons for hours killing hundreds of Taliban. My takeaway: Putin can't lay waste to the Ukraine anymore than we could bomb the dams in Hanoi. So Russia will do a slow bleed out in the Ukraine fighting those psychopaths with reluctant conscripts in a guerrilla war. Not an attractive prospect.

We'll fight to the end.' Ukraine defiant in face of Vladimir Putin's phoney war | Ukraine | The Guardian


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/15/well-fight-to-the-end-ukraine-defiant-in-face-of-vladimir-putins-phoney-war

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Except, he does now own Crimea.

helltopay1 said:

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press to Trump......
How long have you been a serial killer?"
press to Biden..."What did you have for breakfast, dear?"

pathetic......

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Except Trump is a serial killer, so those were valid questions.

Big C said:

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helltopay1 said:

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1) If Russia only invades a little bit and doesn't kill too many people, chances are it's ok
2) If we win the elections this fall, it's normal and good...If they win, they cheated





Joe Biden. President of the new Banana Republic...

BTW, If Biden goes soft on Putin, is that an example of
Russian collusion???Just asking...

---

I would basically "give" Ukraine to Russia, though I wouldn't phrase it like that. As far as I'm concerned, they can "have" all the countries that directly border them to the west, except Finland.

We were headed to be friends with post-USSR Russia, until the talk about Ukraine joining NATO. We are not now natural enemies with Russia. This is all hype and bad diplomacy. Russia and the US have mutual interests. We should grow those.

This is not a domino theory deal, like we feared in the 1960s. Russia was attacked by first Napoleon, then Hitler. They feel like they need a buffer zone. We should set up a carrot-and-stick deal with them, so they don't commit any atrocities or do anything totally against the will of the Ukrainian people.

I'd set it up so it doesn't come across as a "policy of appeasement". Putin is a despot, but he's content to be that in his own realm. His own people can choose to deal with him, or not.

---

I disagree strongly
Even if he's not going to domino, you don't toss bullies reward for effort.
China-Taiwan

We can't police the world
But we can oppose clear wrongs in various ways.

good God......

concordtom said:

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Big C said:

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helltopay1 said:

---

1) If Russia only invades a little bit and doesn't kill too many people, chances are it's ok
2) If we win the elections this fall, it's normal and good...If they win, they cheated





Joe Biden. President of the new Banana Republic...

BTW, If Biden goes soft on Putin, is that an example of
Russian collusion???Just asking...

---

I would basically "give" Ukraine to Russia, though I wouldn't phrase it like that. As far as I'm concerned, they can "have" all the countries that directly border them to the west, except Finland.

We were headed to be friends with post-USSR Russia, until the talk about Ukraine joining NATO. We are not now natural enemies with Russia. This is all hype and bad diplomacy. Russia and the US have mutual interests. We should grow those.

This is not a domino theory deal, like we feared in the 1960s. Russia was attacked by first Napoleon, then Hitler. They feel like they need a buffer zone. We should set up a carrot-and-stick deal with them, so they don't commit any atrocities or do anything totally against the will of the Ukrainian people.

I'd set it up so it doesn't come across as a "policy of appeasement". Putin is a despot, but he's content to be that in his own realm. His own people can choose to deal with him, or not.

---

I disagree strongly
Even if he's not going to domino, you don't toss bullies reward for effort.
China-Taiwan

We can't police the world
But we can oppose clear wrongs in various ways.

---

I disagree with your disagreement, also strongly, but I agree that we can oppose clear wrongs in various ways.

Part of the problem might have been my wording... "giving" him Ukraine... letting him "have" countries to form a buffer zone. I don't mean he gets to annex those countries, just that he can feel comfortable that they are in his sphere of influence. Making overtures about Ukraine joining NATO was always going to be too tough for Putin to handle. Economic opportunities? Sure. Formal military alliance? No way.

Let's realize what we can do and what we can't. There is no possible way we would send troops to Ukraine or to Taiwan. Well, unless we are crazy.

The best we can do in these cases is...
+ sell them some mid-level weapons
+ build international coalitions against atrocities and against countries that take over other countries
+ shine an international spotlight on wrongdoing
+ apply a firm carrot-and-stick approach (economic rewards/sanctions)

Too bad we don't believe in the United Nations anymore because the organization wasn't enough of a puppet for us.