At this point … what is wrong with these people or is it me ?

4,244 Views | 72 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Unit2Sucks
sycasey
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calbear93 said:

sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

OdontoBear66 said:

going4roses said:

School vouchers was just a way for money to be diverted away from poor public schools and to pay teachers less .


No it is meant to create public charter schools with better teachers who are paid better to teach students who are seriously disadvantaged educationally and many other ways. Teachers hate life by merit. Their unions hate it more. It is the avenue to quality. And quality is needed for the most disadvantaged in education.
You should do some reading on what school vouchers actually means. If you do, you will find that it's not public charter schools. School vouchers are intended to allow parents to take some amount of their public school funding to help pay for their private schools.
Honestly, this is always how it goes whenever I try to go a little deeper with any "school choice" proponent on exactly how their proposal would work, for at least the last 25 years. I remember having similar discussions in other online forums back in the late 90s (I was a college student then). The people who wanted vouchers could never explain how the private schools wouldn't just vacuum up that money and keep giving spots to rich kids anyway.

It's the same every time: a confused response that doesn't answer the question and then . . . crickets. I could tell at age 19 or 20 that the proposal didn't make sense and it still doesn't.
I think we are missing the point of why something like that is popular. Seems like this is a case of missing the forest for the trees.

I suspect many parents feel helpless and powerless to influence what they may view as inefficiency or incompetency of school districts, superintendents, or administrators.

School choice probably sounds good because it sounds like it is giving some power back to the parents. We all saw what happens to politicians who are stupid enough to basically tell the parents to shut up and sit down. Somehow, Democrats have been painted as the party who wants to disenfranchise parents. That is probably unfair, but no one has ever accused Democrats of being good at messaging. And that is another thing working against the Democrats in midterm, especially in the suburbs. They better hope abortion controversy and Republican overreach can sufficiently counter that perception.
Oh, I understand why the idea is popular. But the proposal is about an inch deep and as soon as you try to scratch below the surface there's no real solution there.

Democrats should have been quicker to come around on reopening schools and opposing those who were blocking it (including teachers' unions, if they were the ones doing it). That's on them. Doesn't mean I think Republicans have better ideas on education.
WalterSobchak
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OdontoBear66 said:

going4roses said:

School vouchers was just a way for money to be diverted away from poor public schools and to pay teachers less .


No it is meant to create public charter schools with better teachers who are paid better to teach students who are seriously disadvantaged educationally and many other ways. Teachers hate life by merit. Their unions hate it more. It is the avenue to quality. And quality is needed for the most disadvantaged in education.
When you say "public charter schools" how is that different in your mind from current "magnet schools"? What happens to all of the kids who don't get in to your "public charter schools"? If what you really mean is simply increased funding for all urban public schools you should say that. I think you'd find you get a lot more support if you did.
Unit2Sucks
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calbear93 said:

sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:

OdontoBear66 said:

going4roses said:

School vouchers was just a way for money to be diverted away from poor public schools and to pay teachers less .


No it is meant to create public charter schools with better teachers who are paid better to teach students who are seriously disadvantaged educationally and many other ways. Teachers hate life by merit. Their unions hate it more. It is the avenue to quality. And quality is needed for the most disadvantaged in education.
You should do some reading on what school vouchers actually means. If you do, you will find that it's not public charter schools. School vouchers are intended to allow parents to take some amount of their public school funding to help pay for their private schools.
Honestly, this is always how it goes whenever I try to go a little deeper with any "school choice" proponent on exactly how their proposal would work, for at least the last 25 years. I remember having similar discussions in other online forums back in the late 90s (I was a college student then). The people who wanted vouchers could never explain how the private schools wouldn't just vacuum up that money and keep giving spots to rich kids anyway.

It's the same every time: a confused response that doesn't answer the question and then . . . crickets. I could tell at age 19 or 20 that the proposal didn't make sense and it still doesn't.
I think we are missing the point of why something like that is popular. Seems like this is a case of missing the forest for the trees.

I suspect many parents feel helpless and powerless to influence what they may view as inefficiency or incompetency of school districts, superintendents, or administrators.

School choice probably sounds good because it sounds like it is giving some power back to the parents. We all saw what happens to politicians who are stupid enough to basically tell the parents to shut up and sit down. Somehow, Democrats have been painted as the party who wants to disenfranchise parents. That is probably unfair, but no one has ever accused Democrats of being good at messaging. And that is another thing working against the Democrats in midterm, especially in the suburbs. They better hope abortion controversy and Republican overreach can sufficiently counter that perception.
Completely agree. I think there are lots of valid reasons for wanting vouchers but it's driven by wealthy people trying to exfiltrate their tax money to help defray the cost of private schools. It's also obviously not designed to level the playing field or to improve the outcomes for people of color or lower socioeconomic groups.

I would appreciate it more if people were just honest about their motivations.
 
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