OT. Anyone from a ****hole country here?

MiZery
How long do you want to ignore this user?
What's wrong with our country
SBGold
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Kenya
Bobodeluxe
How long do you want to ignore this user?
MiZery said:

What's wrong with our country
You new to Murkuh?
NYCGOBEARS
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Any other president and there would be national outrage. This will be forgotten by the weekend and his next tweet.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
"I hear Roy in the things he says quite clearly," said Peter Fraser, who as Mr. Cohn's lover for the last two years of his life spent a great deal of time with Mr. Trump. "That bravado, and if you say it aggressively and loudly enough, it's the truth that's the way Roy used to operate to a degree, and Donald was certainly his apprentice." NY Times
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
BGolden
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I'm Norwegian.
Yogi Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Yeah, this one should definitely stay on the main board. No chance of this discussion going awry
ARbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
There's a reason why people want to leave those countries. Just saying. They can come here legally once they've been checked out like every other legal immigrant.
Yogi Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Thank you mods
burritos
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Armchair Wiki DSM IV
Axis 1:
ADHD.
Quote:

Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a mental disorder of the neurodevelopmental type.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder#cite_note-pmid23299717-9][9][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder#cite_note-Caroline2010-10][10][/url] It is characterized by problems paying attention, excessive activity, or difficulty controlling behavior which is not appropriate for a person's age
Bipolar
Quote:

Bipolar disorder, previously known as manic depression, is a mental disorder that causes periods of depression and periods of elevated mood.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder#cite_note-BMJ2012-2][2][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder#cite_note-DSM5-3][3][/url] The elevated mood is significant and is known as mania or hypomania, depending on its severity, or whether symptoms of psychosis are present.
Axis 2:
Narcissistic personality disorder.
Quote:

Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder in which there is a long-term pattern of abnormal behavior characterized by exaggerated feelings of self-importance, an excessive need for admiration, and a lack of understanding of others' feelings.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder#cite_note-Cal2015-2][2][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder#cite_note-DSM5-3][3][/url]
Paranoid personality disorder
Quote:

Paranoid personality disorder (PPD) is a mental disorder characterized by paranoia and a pervasive, long-standing suspiciousness and generalized mistrust of others. Individuals with this personality disorder may be hypersensitive, easily insulted, and habitually relate to the world by vigilant scanning of the environment for clues or suggestions that may validate their fears or biases. Paranoid individuals are eager observers. They think they are in danger and look for signs and threats of that danger, potentially not appreciating other evidence.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_personality_disorder#cite_note-1][1][/url]
Axis 3:
Alzheimer's
Quote:

Alzheimer's disease (AD), also referred to simply as Alzheimer's, is a chronic neurodegenerative disease that usually starts slowly and worsens over time.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzheimer%27s_disease#cite_note-BMJ2009-1][1][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzheimer%27s_disease#cite_note-WHO2014-2][2][/url] It is the cause of 60% to 70% of cases of dementia.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzheimer%27s_disease#cite_note-BMJ2009-1][1][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzheimer%27s_disease#cite_note-WHO2014-2][2][/url] The most common early symptom is difficulty in remembering recent events (short-term memory loss).[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzheimer%27s_disease#cite_note-BMJ2009-1][1][/url] As the disease advances, symptoms can include problems with language, disorientation (including easily getting lost), mood swings, loss of motivation, not managing self care, and behavioural issues.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzheimer%27s_disease#cite_note-BMJ2009-1][1][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzheimer%27s_disease#cite_note-WHO2014-2][2][/url] As a person's condition declines, they often withdraw from family and society.
Axis 4(life stressors):
Unexpectedly getting elected to presidency(intention to run was to boost his celebrity, not to actually be POTUS). Being unable to grab pooosy without scrutiny. Russia stuff.

Axis 5(lvl of function):

70-80 range?

Trump is the tangible act of throwing a brick through the modernity's window by today luddites/left behinders.



Cave Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
ARbear said:

There's a reason why people want to leave those countries. Just saying. They can come here legally once they've been checked out like every other legal immigrant.
They can come here legally after they've been checked out and after they get to the front of the immigration line. Given the rate at which we admit immigrants, if the aspiring immigrant isn't rich and doesn't have prized professional skills they're facing a line that will take about 30 years for them to clear*


*unless they're white, in which case we'll probably give them an immediate visa if anyone here will hire them or let them into their school
ARbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
It's not our obligation to let every single person into our country. Why don't all of these people try to fix their own countries? That's how the US came to be. We were oppressed by the British and took back our rights. Also, it is not fair that anyone should be allowed to skip over people who are following the rules. I know plenty of people who got in legally and have become very successful here, but they agree that immigration needs to be tighter. We're already at 300 million+ and have enough people here to worry about. I would love to help every person in the world, but it's just not realistic.
ARbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
If we continually let people in through our borders, when does it end? That's an actual question I would like you to answer. If we keep letting people in with an open border, at some point, you will have to end all immigration because there will not be enough space and/or resources. What is the end game for immigration?
Yogi Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
ARbear said:

If we continually let people in through our borders, when does it end? That's an actual question I would like you to answer. If we keep letting people in with an open border, at some point, you will have to end all immigration because there will not be enough space and/or resources. What is the end game for immigration?
Trump voter ^^^^^
ARbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Yes, I voted for Trump. But I asked a serious question. I actually would like to know your answer. I thought that's why we have debates like this.
Cave Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
ARbear said:

If we continually let people in through our borders, when does it end? That's an actual question I would like you to answer. If we keep letting people in with an open border, at some point, you will have to end all immigration because there will not be enough space and/or resources. What is the end game for immigration?
We're not anywhere near having space or resource issues. Our country can accommodate a much larger population than it currently contains. Even illegal immigration has resulted in a net economic positive--the people who have emigrated have generated far more wealth through their participation in the workforce and commercial market than they have consumed in free services. The real question is why should we stop immigration from Mexico and the rest of Latin America when they add to the economic strength of the country?
ARbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I have to disagree with that. First, why would we try to push the limits? I don't want to be like China and India. And illegal immigrants are costing tons in taxes. We have to pay for their education, emergency medical treatment, and they can even get welfare for their children. Not to mention they are taking jobs from US citizens. When they come for cheap labor, that affects other jobs. It lowers the salaries because of the illegal immigrants that take low paying jobs. This may cause lots of people to be put out of jobs. Hence the humongous homeless population in California. On the other hand, with tax cuts and putting more money in the big companies, they have more money to distribute to their employees.
Cave Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
ARbear said:

I have to disagree with that. First, why would we try to push the limits? I don't want to be like China and India. And illegal immigrants are costing tons in taxes. We have to pay for their education, emergency medical treatment, and they can even get welfare for their children. Not to mention they are taking jobs from US citizens. When they come for cheap labor, that affects other jobs. It lowers the salaries because of the illegal immigrants that take low paying jobs. This may cause lots of people to be put out of jobs. Hence the humongous homeless population in California.
Your "First" is a straw man. We have less than 1/4 of China's population. We are not pushing the limits.

The rest of your points are mistakes and misconceptions, which isn't surprising since they're basically a distillation of right-wing media talking points (which are typically false statements and misrepresentations). Illegal immigrants produce more for the economy in the wealth they create from their economic activity here (working jobs, paying taxes, buying goods) than the amount they cost in services. Five minutes on Google will reveal that to you. Why should we turn away people who want to be here, want to work and add to the strength of the nation?

The jobs they take are jobs the vast majority of Americans don't want and won't do. You could round up every illegal immigrant in this country and deport them and it won't have any appreciable effect on joblessness in America. The idea that homelessness (of Americans) is being caused by illegal immigration is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Quote:

On the other hand, with tax cuts and putting more money in the big companies, they have more money to distribute to their employees.
That's not what big companies do with their tax cuts.

This is the very simple truth about conservative fiscal policies: they are designed to benefit rich people. They're not intentionally designed to hurt the non-rich, they just don't care about those effects. Of course they can't win elections if they say they're only going to try to help rich people, so they say they're going to help the rich and prosperity will "trickle down" to the rest of you but there's very little evidence to support that theory and a lot more evidence that Democratic economic policies produce better outcomes for the general population.

Conversing with you is incredibly depressing. Almost everything factual you believe is a conservative fairy tale, a testament to the power of their propaganda machine. It just hammers home to me how screwed we are as a nation. The oligarchs have us by the balls and we have to spend energy convincing other victims that they're being conned.
ARbear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
The left wing media isn't creating false reports too? At this point, it's just a wait and see thing. I think we are on the right path, and I've even seen several liberal news sources that are admitting to Trump's accomplishments.
Cave Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
ARbear said:

The left wing media isn't creating false reports too? At this point, it's just a wait and see thing. I think we are on the right path, and I've even seen several liberal news sources that are admitting to Trump's accomplishments.
The popular media of the two wings are not equally bad. Nothing from the left measures down to Fox News. Take your best shot if you think I'm mistaken.

If you're engaged politically and you think Trump is doing a good job then I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Though I don't respect your positions, I appreciate your civility and think you've handled a fair amount of abuse with a reasonable deportment.

I think Trump is the worst president in US history. I don't think he's going to be a terrible villain of history like Hitler or Stalin but he is doing great harm to our nation. The worst part is that Trump is only an expression of our national political disease. The disease is regressive conservatism and its endlessly tribal worship of self-interest.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
ARbear said:

.... On the other hand, with tax cuts and putting more money in the big companies, they have more money to distribute to their employees.
This theory is also used to justify allowing corporations to repatriate profits made abroad at a reduced tax rate. Here is what happened last time that theory was tested:

From 2005 to 2006, Pfizer, which repatriated $37 billion, slashed 10,000 jobs. Merck, which brought back $15.9 billion, cut 7,000 jobs, and HP pared its employment rolls by 14,500 after repatriating $14.5 billion.
Most of the money went to repairing balance sheets and rewarding shareholders, according to the CRS. According to one study cited, as much as 91 cents on the dollar went to share repurchases, even though that, along with compensation increases, was expressly prohibited by Congress. Congressional Research Service

My opinion about the the morality, ethics and integrity of most corporations, and their willingness to engage in any conduct they think they can get away with was formed by the following when I was in law school:

http://www.beasleyallen.com/news/ford-memo-the-smoking-gun/









Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
AunBear89
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I predict the Cultservative response to your post will be something like: "Fake news! Liberal media! Hilary's email!"

It's the typical response of their type to facts and details and other things that contradict their passionately held illusions of how the world works.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cave Bear said:

ARbear said:

I have to disagree with that. First, why would we try to push the limits? I don't want to be like China and India. And illegal immigrants are costing tons in taxes. We have to pay for their education, emergency medical treatment, and they can even get welfare for their children. Not to mention they are taking jobs from US citizens. When they come for cheap labor, that affects other jobs. It lowers the salaries because of the illegal immigrants that take low paying jobs. This may cause lots of people to be put out of jobs. Hence the humongous homeless population in California.
Your "First" is a straw man. We have less than 1/4 of China's population. We are not pushing the limits.

The rest of your points are mistakes and misconceptions, which isn't surprising since they're basically a distillation of right-wing media talking points (which are typically false statements and misrepresentations). Illegal immigrants produce more for the economy in the wealth they create from their economic activity here (working jobs, paying taxes, buying goods) than the amount they cost in services. Five minutes on Google will reveal that to you. Why should we turn away people who want to be here, want to work and add to the strength of the nation?

The jobs they take are jobs the vast majority of Americans don't want and won't do. You could round up every illegal immigrant in this country and deport them and it won't have any appreciable effect on joblessness in America. The idea that homelessness (of Americans) is being caused by illegal immigration is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Quote:

On the other hand, with tax cuts and putting more money in the big companies, they have more money to distribute to their employees.


Large scale illegal immigration depresses wages of the lower middle class and working poor. As Cal grads, and with many of us in tech careers, most of us are out of touch with this basic economic reality. If you raise labor supply, wages go down. Here's a refresher for you:



Many Americans don't want difficult low-paying jobs because those jobs are low-paying. And the reason these jobs are low-paying is that there is an endless supply of cheap labor streaming into the labor pool.

In Switzerland, which has one of the most restrictive immigration policies at the low end of its labor pool, the average salary of a construction worker is $80,000.

Trump won by carrying states like PA, OH, WI and MI where the middle class has been struggling due to stagnant wages and outsourcing.

Quote:

That's not what big companies do with their tax cuts.

This is the very simple truth about conservative fiscal policies: they are designed to benefit rich people. They're not intentionally designed to hurt the non-rich, they just don't care about those effects. Of course they can't win elections if they say they're only going to try to help rich people, so they say they're going to help the rich and prosperity will "trickle down" to the rest of you but there's very little evidence to support that theory and a lot more evidence that Democratic economic policies produce better outcomes for the general population.

Conversing with you is incredibly depressing. Almost everything factual you believe is a conservative fairy tale, a testament to the power of their propaganda machine. It just hammers home to me how screwed we are as a nation. The oligarchs have us by the balls and we have to spend energy convincing other victims that they're being conned.

Neoliberal economic policies are also designed to benefit rich people. They are however packaged as humanitarian policies in order to appeal to the urban Blue State left, which dominates the demography of most European countries, and in a decade or two, the US.

https://www.thenation.com/article/how-us-policies-fueled-mexicos-great-migration/

Neocons like that scumbag Kristol quoted above push for policies that turn viable countries like Honduras, Libya or Syria into those "****holes", producing millions of refugees that end up flooding the labor pool of industrialized nations.

Fox is propaganda, but so are CNN and MSNBC, they just appeal to different audiences. Kool Aid comes in different flavors.
bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cal88 said:

...Fox is propaganda, but so are CNN and MSNBC, they just appeal to different audiences. Kool Aid comes in different flavors.



If you research the conclusions reached by several different credible fact checking organizations you will see that they indicate that your statement sets up a false equivalency argument. For sure MSNBC and CNN pass facts through a Progressive filter but Fox News flat out makes things up (Chris Wallace and Shep Smith, at a minimum, excepted from that net). I would wholeheartedly take issue with anyone suggesting that Rachel Maddow's and Nicole Wallace's shows are just the other side of the same coin of Sean Hannity's and Tucker Carlson's shows....and I would be very happy to see that contention litigated through a jury verdict.
Here is a sample:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/jan/29/punditfact-checks-cable-news-channels/
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Cal88
How long do you want to ignore this user?
bearister said:

Cal88 said:

...Fox is propaganda, but so are CNN and MSNBC, they just appeal to different audiences. Kool Aid comes in different flavors.



If you research the conclusions reached by several different credible fact checking organizations you will see that they indicate that your statement sets up a false equivalency argument. For sure MSNBC and CNN pass facts through a Progressive filter but Fox News flat out makes things up (Chris Wallace and Shep Smith, at a minimum, excepted from that net). I would wholeheartedly take issue with anyone suggesting that Rachel Maddow's and Nicole Wallace's shows are just the other side of the same coin of Sean Hannity's and Tucker Carlson's shows....and I would be very happy to see that contention litigated through a jury verdict.
Here is a sample:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/jan/29/punditfact-checks-cable-news-channels/

Here's what your link says Bearister:
Quote:


So what's the latest tally?
At Fox and Fox News, 10 percent of the claims PunditFact has rated have been True, 11 percent Mostly True, 18 percent Half True, 21 percent Mostly False, 31 percent False and nine percent Pants on Fire.

That means about 60 percent of the claims checked have been rated Mostly False or worse. Here's how it breaks down (as of Jan. 27, 2015):

At MSNBC and NBC, 44 percent of claims have received a rating of Mostly False or worse. The full breakdown:

And as for CNN? It has the best record among the cable networks, as 80 percent of of the claims rated are Half True or better..


So MSNBC and CNN have, respectively, only 60% and 43% of half-true or false content. Hurray.


bearister
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I wanted to make sure you were paying attention. At least neither of us played the FAKE NEWS! card.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
iwantwinners
How long do you want to ignore this user?
NYCGOBEARS said:

Any other president and there would be national outrage. This will be forgotten by the weekend and his next tweet.
lol there is national outrage. That's the problem. Haiti and Niger are sh*thole countries. It doesn't mean their people are all sh*tholes. What's next, criticizing Islam, which is not a race, is 'racism'? Oh wait...

Who will outrage whom next in this cycle of identity politics and outrage?
drizzlybears brother
How long do you want to ignore this user?
iwantwinners said:

NYCGOBEARS said:

Any other president and there would be national outrage. This will be forgotten by the weekend and his next tweet.
lol there is national outrage. That's the problem. Haiti and Niger are sh*thole countries. It doesn't mean their people are all sh*tholes. What's next, criticizing Islam, which is not a race, is 'racism'? Oh wait...

Who will outrage whom next in this cycle of identity politics and outrage?

Compelling. Couldn't be clearer that sh*tholes are the problem.
iwantwinners
How long do you want to ignore this user?
drizzlybears brother said:

iwantwinners said:

NYCGOBEARS said:

Any other president and there would be national outrage. This will be forgotten by the weekend and his next tweet.
lol there is national outrage. That's the problem. Haiti and Niger are sh*thole countries. It doesn't mean their people are all sh*tholes. What's next, criticizing Islam, which is not a race, is 'racism'? Oh wait...

Who will outrage whom next in this cycle of identity politics and outrage?

Compelling. Couldn't be clearer that sh*tholes are the problem.
defining that term would be a start. We can't do anything about the SHs that are citizens and don't break the law, but we can, at least with a concerted effort, prevent the adding to that population with SHs from elsewhere, in so far as that is possible. That's really all it is.
drizzlybears brother
How long do you want to ignore this user?
iwantwinners said:

drizzlybears brother said:

iwantwinners said:

NYCGOBEARS said:

Any other president and there would be national outrage. This will be forgotten by the weekend and his next tweet.
lol there is national outrage. That's the problem. Haiti and Niger are sh*thole countries. It doesn't mean their people are all sh*tholes. What's next, criticizing Islam, which is not a race, is 'racism'? Oh wait...

Who will outrage whom next in this cycle of identity politics and outrage?

Compelling. Couldn't be clearer that sh*tholes are the problem.
defining that term would be a start. We can't do anything about the SHs that are citizens and don't break the law, but we can, at least with a concerted effort, prevent the adding to that population with SHs from elsewhere, in so far as that is possible. That's really all it is.
No, I meant you.
iwantwinners
How long do you want to ignore this user?
drizzlybears brother said:

iwantwinners said:

drizzlybears brother said:

iwantwinners said:

NYCGOBEARS said:

Any other president and there would be national outrage. This will be forgotten by the weekend and his next tweet.
lol there is national outrage. That's the problem. Haiti and Niger are sh*thole countries. It doesn't mean their people are all sh*tholes. What's next, criticizing Islam, which is not a race, is 'racism'? Oh wait...

Who will outrage whom next in this cycle of identity politics and outrage?

Compelling. Couldn't be clearer that sh*tholes are the problem.
defining that term would be a start. We can't do anything about the SHs that are citizens and don't break the law, but we can, at least with a concerted effort, prevent the adding to that population with SHs from elsewhere, in so far as that is possible. That's really all it is.
No, I meant you.
For stating facts? That's telling...
drizzlybears brother
How long do you want to ignore this user?
iwantwinners said:

drizzlybears brother said:

iwantwinners said:

drizzlybears brother said:

iwantwinners said:

NYCGOBEARS said:

Any other president and there would be national outrage. This will be forgotten by the weekend and his next tweet.
lol there is national outrage. That's the problem. Haiti and Niger are sh*thole countries. It doesn't mean their people are all sh*tholes. What's next, criticizing Islam, which is not a race, is 'racism'? Oh wait...

Who will outrage whom next in this cycle of identity politics and outrage?

Compelling. Couldn't be clearer that sh*tholes are the problem.
defining that term would be a start. We can't do anything about the SHs that are citizens and don't break the law, but we can, at least with a concerted effort, prevent the adding to that population with SHs from elsewhere, in so far as that is possible. That's really all it is.
No, I meant you.
For stating facts? That's telling...

No, don't consider myself fact averse. I was moved by your embrace of the word sh*tholes, particularly as you apply it to people. Are those facts? Cuz that would be telling. Who gets to determine which among us are factual sh*tholes? Can I certify that you're a sh*thole? Grade AAA factual sh*thole? These are just questions.
Cave Bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Cal88 said:

Cave Bear said:

ARbear said:

I have to disagree with that. First, why would we try to push the limits? I don't want to be like China and India. And illegal immigrants are costing tons in taxes. We have to pay for their education, emergency medical treatment, and they can even get welfare for their children. Not to mention they are taking jobs from US citizens. When they come for cheap labor, that affects other jobs. It lowers the salaries because of the illegal immigrants that take low paying jobs. This may cause lots of people to be put out of jobs. Hence the humongous homeless population in California.
Your "First" is a straw man. We have less than 1/4 of China's population. We are not pushing the limits.

The rest of your points are mistakes and misconceptions, which isn't surprising since they're basically a distillation of right-wing media talking points (which are typically false statements and misrepresentations). Illegal immigrants produce more for the economy in the wealth they create from their economic activity here (working jobs, paying taxes, buying goods) than the amount they cost in services. Five minutes on Google will reveal that to you. Why should we turn away people who want to be here, want to work and add to the strength of the nation?

The jobs they take are jobs the vast majority of Americans don't want and won't do. You could round up every illegal immigrant in this country and deport them and it won't have any appreciable effect on joblessness in America. The idea that homelessness (of Americans) is being caused by illegal immigration is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Quote:

On the other hand, with tax cuts and putting more money in the big companies, they have more money to distribute to their employees.


Large scale illegal immigration depresses wages of the lower middle class and working poor. As Cal grads, and with many of us in tech careers, most of us are out of touch with this basic economic reality. If you raise labor supply, wages go down. Here's a refresher for you:



Many Americans don't want difficult low-paying jobs because those jobs are low-paying. And the reason these jobs are low-paying is that there is an endless supply of cheap labor streaming into the labor pool.

In Switzerland, which has one of the most restrictive immigration policies at the low end of its labor pool, the average salary of a construction worker is $80,000.

Trump won by carrying states like PA, OH, WI and MI where the middle class has been struggling due to stagnant wages and outsourcing.

Quote:

That's not what big companies do with their tax cuts.

This is the very simple truth about conservative fiscal policies: they are designed to benefit rich people. They're not intentionally designed to hurt the non-rich, they just don't care about those effects. Of course they can't win elections if they say they're only going to try to help rich people, so they say they're going to help the rich and prosperity will "trickle down" to the rest of you but there's very little evidence to support that theory and a lot more evidence that Democratic economic policies produce better outcomes for the general population.

Conversing with you is incredibly depressing. Almost everything factual you believe is a conservative fairy tale, a testament to the power of their propaganda machine. It just hammers home to me how screwed we are as a nation. The oligarchs have us by the balls and we have to spend energy convincing other victims that they're being conned.

Neoliberal economic policies are also designed to benefit rich people. They are however packaged as humanitarian policies in order to appeal to the urban Blue State left, which dominates the demography of most European countries, and in a decade or two, the US.

https://www.thenation.com/article/how-us-policies-fueled-mexicos-great-migration/

Neocons like that scumbag Kristol quoted above push for policies that turn viable countries like Honduras, Libya or Syria into those "****holes", producing millions of refugees that end up flooding the labor pool of industrialized nations.

Fox is propaganda, but so are CNN and MSNBC, they just appeal to different audiences. Kool Aid comes in different flavors.

You could have saved yourself the effort of your refresher course on wage pressure. I never claimed illegal immigration didn't adversely affect wages on the bottom end of unskilled US labor. What I rejected is the notion that the impact of illegal immigration on US workers is what's driving joblessness and homelessness in the United States. There are 325 million people in this country and only 11 million of them are illegal immigrants. They're a tiny minority embedded in a huge country. They're not a valid scapegoat for our economic problems. The ranks of the homeless are not filled by jobless people who would have homes if only the local businesses that employ unskilled labor didn't have illegal immigrants to hire first. Nor are the ranks of the jobless dominated by those who would pick tomatoes or clean bathrooms for minimum wage to subsist but won't do it for the dollar or two less per hour they're offered because of illegal immigrants. Joblessness and homelessness are both very large issues that are being affected by much larger and broader forces in our economy and society than the availability of illegal immigrants in the labor force.

I'd like to know where that figure on Sweden's average construction worker salary came from. A quick Google search shows several front page results with medians around $45k.

I'm not uninterested in repairing what negative impact illegal immigrants do have on the bottom section of our workforce, but I believe there are better avenues for repair than trying to cutoff the flow of illegal immigrants. This belief is reinforced by the knowledge that illegal immigrants are productive in our economy. I do find this solicitousness on behalf of our working poor, jobless, and homeless populations on the part of conservatives to be heartening, if obnoxious given how uninterested they usually are in using the direct intervention of the federal government to make their lives better.

Trump won those states by promising something he's not going to deliver. Trump is not going to rescue the working class; he's not even going to try. The market forces that are killing wage growth are products of the structure of our economy, which Trump will not change. Unskilled and low skill labor is not valuable in a developed economy with a huge population. All protectionist measures come with a rebound cost that ultimately hurt business owners, consumers and most importantly (to Trump), market investors. The most Trump will do is make cosmetic moves that throw a bone to these voters whose futures he has vowed to save.

You say "Neoliberal economic policies are also designed to benefit rich people" and they are, but this is an attempt by conservatives to excuse themselves by false equivalence. There are substantial differences between the economic policies of Obama and those of the conservatives who preceeded and succeeded him. The conservative policies gave trillions of dollars more to rich people while eliminating or seeking to eliminate programs that provide hundreds of billions of dollars in services to the poor. I have no great love for neoliberalism, but it's far better for the people than any brand of conservatism.

There is only one way for the working class of this country to be rescued and that is to save itself by waking up. The narrative of America becoming beleaguered in the 21st century is one that its wealthy people wouldn't recognize. As a class, they have done quite well in the United States since 1980. It's the economic policies that have allowed them to pocket such an enormous proportion of our national wealth that are at fault. This began with the Reagan Revolution and has been driven by conservatives since. It is also driving the increasing economic pressure on the working and middle class. Contrary to popular impression, the US economy has continued to vastly expand over the past four decades, but all of the gains have accrued to the top. This will continue for as long as conservatives hold power. Whatever messages they feed the people when they need to win elections, their policies show their true loyalty belongs to an oligarchy that quite stupidly doesn't care if poor people struggle.

There should be amnesty for all illegal immigrants and the institution of a guest worker program that is contingent only upon good behavior. We should have a welcoming citizenship program for these immigrants that assures them of citizenship if they prove to be law-abiding members of society after X number of years.

There should be universal housing and healthcare for citizens too, and expanded education entitlements, along with a universal basic income. I believe all of these things will eventually come to pass. We should also have universal employment for all US citizens who want to work. The federal and state governments are capable of employing a practically limitless number of people, a measure that combines well with the massive infrastructure investment this country needs. Democrats and their party are far from perfect, but the only way we're going to get these things is through their government.
Unit2Sucks
How long do you want to ignore this user?
You lost me with the last paragraph.
iwantwinners
How long do you want to ignore this user?

Quote:

There are 325 million people in this country and only 11 million of them are illegal immigrants.
But they're illegal, don't you get it? Your post was apologetics for illegal activity (when a legal process exists) in service to your political preferences and ideology. Citing that it's not a central factor to certain domestic issues is NOT an argument for refusing basic federal immigration law. All 11 million should face legal action up to and including deportation not in loyalty to my politics, but in loyalty to federal law.
Page 1 of 2
×
Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.