Supreme Court Decisions

Another Bear
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Let the butt kissing and brown nosing commence... You'd think a SCOTUS nomination would have a little bit more dignity. Not in the Trump era...everyone kisses the ring and the butt. The fact this is now de facto protocol is disturbing.

Brett Kavanaugh's first claim as a Supreme Court nominee was bizarre
Quote:

Brett Kavanaugh thanked President Trump for his nomination to the Supreme Court on Monday night. And almost immediately, he made a thoroughly strange and quite possibly bogus claim.

"No president has ever consulted more widely, or talked with more people from more backgrounds, to seek input about a Supreme Court nomination," Kavanaugh said.

It may seem like a throwaway line a bit of harmless political hyperbole. But this was also the first public claim from a potential new Supreme Court justice who will be tasked with interpreting and parsing the law down to the letter. Specificity and precision is the name of the game in Kavanaugh's chosen profession. How on earth could he be so sure?
Quote:

The claim does fit a pattern with Trump, though, in which those around him feel pressure whether overt or not to flatter him in the most glowing and hyperbolic terms possible. The most ridiculous example was the letter that Trump's then-personal doctor, Harold Bornstein, wrote during the 2016 campaign, which contended, "If elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency." Bornstein now says that the note was essentially dictated by Trump or even coerced.
Here's a question: do you think Trump dictated/forced Kavanaugh's statement like Bornstein?

On one hand, if that's the qualifier to get the job...what's the big deal? OTOH, for a SCOTUS justice (or nominee) to partake in this is disturbing, highest court in the land, judicial independence, yada, yada. Personally I think it shows a lack of character and boundaries. Professionally what it means is up in the air, like would he take Trump's phone call on a case?

concordtom
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Consider that once in the robe, a justice can govern however they like and nobody can say anything about it (unless impeached for crimes). So, perhaps kavanaugh would say something to trump to get the job, but if he's a man of character he will consider each case on its own merits.

You can argue that he's not a man of character if he deceived trump, but I wouldn't think it unprecedented.
B.A. Bearacus
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I don't know, to me this teary-eyed gazing into the eyes of Trump says "I owe you so much... now kiss me like I've never been kissed before."

B.A. Bearacus
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Another Bear said:

"No president has ever consulted more widely, or talked with more people from more backgrounds, to seek input about a Supreme Court nomination," Kavanaugh said.
This Trump/Spicer-like quote is a really bad look. It pairs well with Trump's claim that "no one in America is more qualified" than Kavanaugh.

kjkbear
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I can believe Kavanagh said that. I can't believe any judge would actually say that and expect to be taken seriously on important issues.
B.A. Bearacus
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What is wrong with this grown man (with 3-mil followers on Twitter) and his rotten-to-the-core family?


kjkbear
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Petty. Offensive in almost every imaginable way. Billy Carter looks princely compared to the Trumps. 2 1/2 more years. Da#n.
okaydo
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B.A. Bearacus said:

What is wrong with this grown man (with 3-mil followers on Twitter) and his rotten-to-the-core family?




Your just jealous because he's an Ivy Leaguer and you went to a public school.
bearister
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okaydo said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

What is wrong with this grown man (with 3-mil followers on Twitter) and his rotten-to-the-core family?




Your just jealous because he's an Ivy Leaguer and you went to a public school.

Twice in my career a counsel that opposed me was a Harvard law grad. They looked good on paper but in the real world of practicing law they were both as useless as tits on a bull.*

* How does the sniffing software not sniff the word tits?
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okaydo
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Another Bear
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B.A. Bearacus said:

I don't know, to me this teary-eyed gazing into the eyes of Trump says "I owe you so much... now kiss me like I've never been kissed before."


That's a telling photo...just not sure what it's telling. Loyalty or creepy submission.

If's funny how things don't change that much from HS. A guy like that would have been pounded and harassed not because he looks like a sniveling idiot but because underneath is a sycophant who will do the blind bidding of those in power. As teenagers, somehow you can sense the snitch on sight. He's from the same school of weakling as Ted Cruz and Stephen Miller. You know given the chance people like this will do humanity wrong, and they deserve a pounding and to be knocked off their high horse...for the good of society. These are guys who needed to be fragged.
bearister
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Another Bear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

I don't know, to me this teary-eyed gazing into the eyes of Trump says "I owe you so much... now kiss me like I've never been kissed before."


That's a telling photo...just not sure what it's telling. Loyalty or creepy submission.

If's funny how things don't change that much from HS. A guy like that would have been pounded and harassed not because he looks like a sniveling idiot but because underneath is a sycophant who will do the blind bidding of those in power. As teenagers, somehow you can sense the snitch on sight. He's from the same school of weakling as Ted Cruz and Stephen Miller. You know given the chance people like this will do humanity wrong, and they deserve a pounding and to be knocked off their high horse...for the good of society. These are guys who needed to be fragged.


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B.A. Bearacus
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okaydo said:


Your just jealous because he's an Ivy Leaguer and you went to a public school.
Nice try, Okaydo, but graduates of Penn and other Ivies don't make mistakes like this.

bearister
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/10/brett-kavanaugh-nomination-victory-originalists?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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wifeisafurd
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dajo9 said:

The White House is not denying reporting that Kennedy negotiated the Kavanaugh pick with Trump (was wiaf a source for the reporting). What did Trump get in exchange? I don't know but Kennedy was awfully favorable to the Trump view in the last series of Supreme Court decisions.

At a minimum, Kennedy needs to be brought into the Senate to testify about his discussions with the White House. Probably, the FBI needs to investigate a possible bribery scheme between Kennedy and Trump.

The Trump Administration comes up with ways of being corrupt that most of us hadn't even dreamed of.




Kavanaugh was one of five judges added to the the list recently. Of the 5, three were Kennedy clerks including Kavanaugh. Coincidence or inducement?
dajo9
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wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

The White House is not denying reporting that Kennedy negotiated the Kavanaugh pick with Trump (was wiaf a source for the reporting). What did Trump get in exchange? I don't know but Kennedy was awfully favorable to the Trump view in the last series of Supreme Court decisions.

At a minimum, Kennedy needs to be brought into the Senate to testify about his discussions with the White House. Probably, the FBI needs to investigate a possible bribery scheme between Kennedy and Trump.

The Trump Administration comes up with ways of being corrupt that most of us hadn't even dreamed of.




Kavanaugh was one of five judges added to the the list recently. Of the 5, three were Kennedy clerks including Kavanaugh. Coincidence or inducement?


With Trump, there are no coincidences
wifeisafurd
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dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

The White House is not denying reporting that Kennedy negotiated the Kavanaugh pick with Trump (was wiaf a source for the reporting). What did Trump get in exchange? I don't know but Kennedy was awfully favorable to the Trump view in the last series of Supreme Court decisions.

At a minimum, Kennedy needs to be brought into the Senate to testify about his discussions with the White House. Probably, the FBI needs to investigate a possible bribery scheme between Kennedy and Trump.

The Trump Administration comes up with ways of being corrupt that most of us hadn't even dreamed of.




Kavanaugh was one of five judges added to the the list recently. Of the 5, three were Kennedy clerks including Kavanaugh. Coincidence or inducement?


With Trump, there are no coincidences
The timing of Kennedy's resignation bothers me. That Kennedy was then invited over to the White House and allowed to make recommendations directly to the President is somewhat unprecedented (at least to my limited knowledge) and left me wondering. That Kavanaugh's was likely one of Kennedy's recommendations (and probably his top recommendation) makes me think there had to be an arrangement.
dajo9
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wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

The White House is not denying reporting that Kennedy negotiated the Kavanaugh pick with Trump (was wiaf a source for the reporting). What did Trump get in exchange? I don't know but Kennedy was awfully favorable to the Trump view in the last series of Supreme Court decisions.

At a minimum, Kennedy needs to be brought into the Senate to testify about his discussions with the White House. Probably, the FBI needs to investigate a possible bribery scheme between Kennedy and Trump.

The Trump Administration comes up with ways of being corrupt that most of us hadn't even dreamed of.




Kavanaugh was one of five judges added to the the list recently. Of the 5, three were Kennedy clerks including Kavanaugh. Coincidence or inducement?


With Trump, there are no coincidences
The timing of Kennedy's resignation bothers me. That Kennedy was then invited over to the White House and allowed to make recommendations directly to the President is somewhat unprecedented (at least to my limited knowledge) and left me wondering. That Kavanaugh's was likely one of Kennedy's recommendations (and probably his top recommendation) makes me think there had to be an arrangement.


That would be a crime, right? Like Blagojevich in Illinois
wifeisafurd
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dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

The White House is not denying reporting that Kennedy negotiated the Kavanaugh pick with Trump (was wiaf a source for the reporting). What did Trump get in exchange? I don't know but Kennedy was awfully favorable to the Trump view in the last series of Supreme Court decisions.

At a minimum, Kennedy needs to be brought into the Senate to testify about his discussions with the White House. Probably, the FBI needs to investigate a possible bribery scheme between Kennedy and Trump.

The Trump Administration comes up with ways of being corrupt that most of us hadn't even dreamed of.




Kavanaugh was one of five judges added to the the list recently. Of the 5, three were Kennedy clerks including Kavanaugh. Coincidence or inducement?


With Trump, there are no coincidences
The timing of Kennedy's resignation bothers me. That Kennedy was then invited over to the White House and allowed to make recommendations directly to the President is somewhat unprecedented (at least to my limited knowledge) and left me wondering. That Kavanaugh's was likely one of Kennedy's recommendations (and probably his top recommendation) makes me think there had to be an arrangement.


That would be a crime, right? Like Blagojevich in Illinois
I'm guessing not. Deals happen in DC all the time. You just don't expect that for a SCOTUS position. Optics look very bad.
dajo9
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wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

The White House is not denying reporting that Kennedy negotiated the Kavanaugh pick with Trump (was wiaf a source for the reporting). What did Trump get in exchange? I don't know but Kennedy was awfully favorable to the Trump view in the last series of Supreme Court decisions.

At a minimum, Kennedy needs to be brought into the Senate to testify about his discussions with the White House. Probably, the FBI needs to investigate a possible bribery scheme between Kennedy and Trump.

The Trump Administration comes up with ways of being corrupt that most of us hadn't even dreamed of.




Kavanaugh was one of five judges added to the the list recently. Of the 5, three were Kennedy clerks including Kavanaugh. Coincidence or inducement?


With Trump, there are no coincidences
The timing of Kennedy's resignation bothers me. That Kennedy was then invited over to the White House and allowed to make recommendations directly to the President is somewhat unprecedented (at least to my limited knowledge) and left me wondering. That Kavanaugh's was likely one of Kennedy's recommendations (and probably his top recommendation) makes me think there had to be an arrangement.


That would be a crime, right? Like Blagojevich in Illinois
I'm guessing not. Deals happen in DC all the time. You just don't expect that for a SCOTUS position. Optics look very bad.
I would think if something was explicitly traded it would be a crime. In this case we have an experienced enough jurist and an experienced enough criminal that nothing was made explicit. In any case, I believe it is fair to investigate the matter.
sycasey
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wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:

The White House is not denying reporting that Kennedy negotiated the Kavanaugh pick with Trump (was wiaf a source for the reporting). What did Trump get in exchange? I don't know but Kennedy was awfully favorable to the Trump view in the last series of Supreme Court decisions.

At a minimum, Kennedy needs to be brought into the Senate to testify about his discussions with the White House. Probably, the FBI needs to investigate a possible bribery scheme between Kennedy and Trump.

The Trump Administration comes up with ways of being corrupt that most of us hadn't even dreamed of.




Kavanaugh was one of five judges added to the the list recently. Of the 5, three were Kennedy clerks including Kavanaugh. Coincidence or inducement?


With Trump, there are no coincidences
The timing of Kennedy's resignation bothers me. That Kennedy was then invited over to the White House and allowed to make recommendations directly to the President is somewhat unprecedented (at least to my limited knowledge) and left me wondering. That Kavanaugh's was likely one of Kennedy's recommendations (and probably his top recommendation) makes me think there had to be an arrangement.


That would be a crime, right? Like Blagojevich in Illinois
I'm guessing not. Deals happen in DC all the time. You just don't expect that for a SCOTUS position. Optics look very bad.


Not a terribly "drain the swamp" move by Trump.
bearister
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Unit2Sucks
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dajo9 said:

wifeisafurd said:

dajo9 said:




That would be a crime, right? Like Blagojevich in Illinois
I'm guessing not. Deals happen in DC all the time. You just don't expect that for a SCOTUS position. Optics look very bad.
I would think if something was explicitly traded it would be a crime. In this case we have an experienced enough jurist and an experienced enough criminal that nothing was made explicit. In any case, I believe it is fair to investigate the matter.
Something like this could never be a "crime" in the conventional sense. Does it violate all norms? Sure. Could it create a constitutional crisis? Maybe. But it wouldn't be a crime that could subject the president to prosecution. Possibly a crime was committed by someone else (eg Trump associate offering Kennedy family money or some other consideration for stepping down) but that wouldn't subject Trump himself to criminal liability.

Impeachment is the only meaningful check on a rogue president and right now it's hard to imagine impeachment no matter how egregious Trump's misdeeds. The best we can hope for is an impeachment proceeding that functionally turns Trump into (more of) a lame duck.
Anarchistbear
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Trump's not the problem-in fact as far as picking judges go, he is straight establishment. Any Republican would have picked Kavanaugh. He's A list-went to the right schools, clerked for the right judges, vetted by the Federalist Society and his political masters to do their bidding.The problem is the Supreme Court which rather than a check on political power is an extension of state political power. It is a threat to democracy more so than the Executive because they last forever.
wifeisafurd
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Anarchistbear said:

Trump's not the problem-in fact as far as picking judges go, he is straight establishment. Any Republican would have picked Kavanaugh. He's A list-went to the right schools, clerked for the right judges, vetted by the Federalist Society and his political masters to do their bidding.The problem is the Supreme Court which rather than a check on political power is an extension of state political power. It is a threat to democracy more so than the Executive because they last forever.
And before 1987 he probably flies through the Senate given his credentials and establishment ties. Same thing for a liberal judge with similar credentials. That all changed with Bork.

With some irony, there are several justices whose ideological perspective changed over their years on the Court. Cal alum Warren and Harry Blackmun, probably the most famous getting more liberal and Frankfurter and Wizard White becoming more conservative

The most interesting was Hugo Black, a former KKK member, who entered the court a strict constructionist, and became a leading liberal in the Warren Court. You just don't know where these jurists will end-up over time.

Leave it up to everyone whether the nomination process is better. But I can tell you Kavanaugh will not answer one substantive question directly. Absent some skeleton in the closet, Kavanagh will face a tough appearing, but likely superficial battle, which will be fought on partisan grounds and messengering for each party's base. And he will get 50 votes and Pence (or 51 if McCain can travel)
bearister
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaugh-piled-up-credit-card-debt-by-purchasing-nationals-tickets-white-house-says/2018/07/11/8e3ad7d6-8460-11e8-9e80-403a221946a7_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.08f0e50e56a6
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kjkbear
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Any nominee by Trump will likely get one, and only one, Democratic Senator's vote--Doug Jones of Alabama.
B.A. Bearacus
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Excerpt:


Smells like Dumpster Muffin.
77Bear
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After the charade of the Kavanaugh Senate confirmation hearings conclude, here's my prediction on the Senate's confirmation/consent vote on Kavanaugh:

If Murkowski and Collins vote for confirmation (assuming McCain continues to be nowhere to be seen among the living), Kavanaugh will receive at least 50 votes; if so Donnelly, Heiitkamp, Manchin, and probably Tester and McCaskill will vote for confirmation to enhance their 2018 Senate electiblilty - so the final tally will likely be 54-45 or 55-44.

If either or both Murkowski or Collins vote no, then the Red State Democrats will also vote no, so the vote will be 48-51 or 49-50 against.
Anarchistbear
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Murkowski and Collins imo are sure things as are 2-3 Dems. There is absolutely no incentive for them to vote no.
sycasey
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Anarchistbear said:

Murkowski and Collins imo are sure things as are 2-3 Dems. There is absolutely no incentive for them to vote no.


Unless something bad comes out during the confirmation process.
Another Bear
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Murkowski and Collins will roll over and vote the party line. The talk about them being pro-women and pro-choice is a farce.
bearister
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B.A. Bearacus said:

..Smells like Dumpster Muffin.


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77Bear
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Anarchistbear said:

Murkowski and Collins imo are sure things as are 2-3 Dems. There is absolutely no incentive for them to vote no.
No Democrats will vote for confirmation if there are less than 50 Republicans in favor.
Another Bear
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Of course maybe there's something really repulsive about Kavanaugh, or there's traction on the pro-choice side that can topple the nomination.
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