Yep. Without a doubt.

wifeisafurd said:

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Sebastabear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Sebastabear said:

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I also fall into the centrist camp (and I generally try to avoid OT issues altogether) but even I logged into BI just to say, this is simply beyond the pall. I watched this "press conference". The bumbling incoherence, the megalomaniacal focus on self over country, the support of a tyrannical thug over our law enforcement and the jaw-dropping statements of moral equivalence between the US and Russia were unlike anything I have ever seen in my life. This man is a traitor to his party and to his country. I have never been more ashamed of American politics.

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yea, sorry I meant press conference (not coverage - thank you automatic spellchecker).

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That's funny. I actually assumed you meant press coverage since that also seemed to hit an all time low (or high, depending on how you look at it) yesterday. I just put "press conference" in quotes since I don't know what that thing was yesterday, but it certainly was unlike any "press conference" between two state leaders I've ever seen; much less the leader of the world's oldest continuous democracy and the man determined to end democracy as we know it. I think it was more like a puppet show or a live broadcast of blackmail - take your pick.

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My thinking was probably the latter. You don't say out loud my National Security Advisor said this and I don't agree with him unless Putin has pictures.

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I believe you referred to discussion on these boards last year about the Russian investigation as Liberal circle jerk--glad you've joined in.

Trump voters made a massive mistake in voting for him.
Fine if they don't like Hillary.
Asinine that they brought us here.

Hopefully they don't back up the bus rather than admitting a mistake and moving on.

Another Bear said:

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Also Manafort's July trial was postponed. There's speculation he's going to flip. It's also not a coincidence they arrested the Russian spy, and NRA-GOP infiltator, Maria Butina, yesterday.

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What are the charges she's facing? How many years in jail?
She's just 29 with a long life in front of her. She would likely cop any plea deal to escape decades in prison in a foreign land, if that's what she's facing. Likely many Americans have no idea what she may know and say. Having her sing like a canary would put pressure on others.
US is lucky she is not in Russia. How many others like her are suddenly boarding planes and moving back home right now?

Maybe the EU can start making some arrests as well.

B.A. Bearacus said:

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Trump: "In a key sentence in my remarks, I said the word would instead of wouldn't. The sentence should have been...'I don't see any reason why it WOULDN'T be Russia.' Sort of a double negative. So you can put that in, and I think that probably clarifies things."

Preet Bharara: "This kind of obvious BS embarrassing retraction on cross-examination at a trial would send the jury into dizzying laughter and result in a quick conviction. Trump will never ever speak to Mueller's team."

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Please don't waste our time, BA And Preet, by telling what we already know.
Of course. Uh, the sky IS blue.

B.A. Bearacus said:

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Trump: "I accept our intelligence community's conclusion that Russia's meddling in the 2016 election took place. Could be other people also. A lot of people out there."

Trump: "Once again, full faith and support for America's intelligence agencies. I have a faith full faith in our intelligence agencies...I have full faith and support for America's great intelligence agencies, always have."

Daniel Dale: "Remember the Charlottesville saga: Trump expressed his true views, there was an outcry, he dutifully read a staff-written walk-back statement, then soon after he abandoned the walk-back and even more forcefully expressed his true views."

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I say this: Anyone out there who believes a word Trump says is the stupidest person in the world. The man had no credibility 24 months ago, and he has only backed it up the past 730 days.

I accept if you were stupid 2 years ago, or perhaps even 1 year ago. But unless you've been living in a coma, you have no excuse for not realizing that this man is complete scum from the bottom of your shoe after walking thru a hog feed lot. I have a hard time accepting the intelligence level of anyone who do not realize this fact.

blungld said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Sebastabear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Sebastabear said:

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I also fall into the centrist camp (and I generally try to avoid OT issues altogether) but even I logged into BI just to say, this is simply beyond the pall. I watched this "press conference". The bumbling incoherence, the megalomaniacal focus on self over country, the support of a tyrannical thug over our law enforcement and the jaw-dropping statements of moral equivalence between the US and Russia were unlike anything I have ever seen in my life. This man is a traitor to his party and to his country. I have never been more ashamed of American politics.

---

yea, sorry I meant press conference (not coverage - thank you automatic spellchecker).

---

That's funny. I actually assumed you meant press coverage since that also seemed to hit an all time low (or high, depending on how you look at it) yesterday. I just put "press conference" in quotes since I don't know what that thing was yesterday, but it certainly was unlike any "press conference" between two state leaders I've ever seen; much less the leader of the world's oldest continuous democracy and the man determined to end democracy as we know it. I think it was more like a puppet show or a live broadcast of blackmail - take your pick.

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My thinking was probably the latter. You don't say out loud my National Security Advisor said this and I don't agree with him unless Putin has pictures.

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I believe you referred to discussion on these boards last year about the Russian investigation as Liberal circle jerk--glad you've joined in.

---

In fairness, whatever I commented on had weird cr@p on it, but I enjoy being the dissenter, even though I'm probably too middle of the road to give the conservative view it's best defense. I'm not sure even the staunchest of Republicans believes the Russians didn't try to help the Sanders and Trump campaigns, as any number of senior security officials unanimously (at least until Trump presser) had been saying. There probably is some dispute as to how effective the Russians were in their meddling (its not like the Russians ordered Clinton to not visit Michigan, etc.)

CNN hosts keep asking the rhetorical question, "How dumb does he think we are?" (not just the add-clip for Erin Burnett's show).

I want to answer.

Not only does he think we are dumb, but we actually ARE that dumb - evidence being that he continues residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Until he gets booted, we Americans truly ARE VERY DUMB. It gives me great sadness for our country, once looked upon as a shining city upon a hill (words initially spoken by Pilgrim father William Bradford, who sailed with my 14x great grandfather and "Chief of the Pilgrims" William Brewster). Today, we are just a collection of idiots. He thinks we are dumb, and we are. The plunder of our shining city of idealism continues tepidly abated.

This guy says, "tell me about it":

wifeisafurd said:

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blungld said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Sebastabear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Sebastabear said:

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I also fall into the centrist camp (and I generally try to avoid OT issues altogether) but even I logged into BI just to say, this is simply beyond the pall. I watched this "press conference". The bumbling incoherence, the megalomaniacal focus on self over country, the support of a tyrannical thug over our law enforcement and the jaw-dropping statements of moral equivalence between the US and Russia were unlike anything I have ever seen in my life. This man is a traitor to his party and to his country. I have never been more ashamed of American politics.

---

yea, sorry I meant press conference (not coverage - thank you automatic spellchecker).

---

That's funny. I actually assumed you meant press coverage since that also seemed to hit an all time low (or high, depending on how you look at it) yesterday. I just put "press conference" in quotes since I don't know what that thing was yesterday, but it certainly was unlike any "press conference" between two state leaders I've ever seen; much less the leader of the world's oldest continuous democracy and the man determined to end democracy as we know it. I think it was more like a puppet show or a live broadcast of blackmail - take your pick.

---

My thinking was probably the latter. You don't say out loud my National Security Advisor said this and I don't agree with him unless Putin has pictures.

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I believe you referred to discussion on these boards last year about the Russian investigation as Liberal circle jerk--glad you've joined in.

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In fairness, whatever I commented on had weird cr@p on it, but I enjoy being the dissenter, even though I'm probably too middle of the road to give the conservative view it's best defense.

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The Odonto defense -

"I'm so middle of the road that everything i say immediately becomes centrist"

Hillary Clinton was the middle of the road candidate in 2016. You didn't vote for her.

A little mood music for the Mad King:

Just watched Nick Ackerman, former Watergate prosecutor, talk on MSNBC. His take:

A) It's not collusion with the Russians, it's CONSPIRACY, thus Mueller indicted 12 Russians.
B) Taking down Trump will not be legal (trial) but political...same as Nixon. Trump will never talk to Mueller.

Conspiracy means it was planned. coordinated and executed. Collusion means something soft, and it's not illegal. The thinking goes, the conspiracy is really the Pee Tape and what Putin is using to blackmail Trump and that's why Trump is beholdened to Putin. Conspiracy makes more sense because, as other pundits have pointed out, there's no way the Russians would know exactly what to steal or what to game given the subtleties and weirdness of the electoral college.

concordtom said:

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Anyone out there who believes a word Trump says is the stupidest person in the world.

I accept if you were stupid 2 years ago, or perhaps even 1 year ago.

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I disagree. Your stupidity 2 years ago or 1 year ago is just as unforgiveable as your current stupidity.

I'd guess it's the Russian "banking" (aka money laundering) is being used as blackmail but there probably is a Pee Tape and the DNC break in was probably planned, is a conspiracy. In other words, it's everything.

This is Month 38 of Trump being the top news story.

You shouldn't have been this gullible three years ago.

Anyways, 78 more months to go.

dajo9 said:

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I really don't think Trump could be blackmailed by a pee tape. Think about it - all he'd have to do is say, yeah I watched two girls pee on a bed and shrug his shoulders. His base wouldn't care.

The blackmail is that Trump's entire financial empire is funded by Russian money laundering and Putin has all the receipts.

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[dons tin foil cap]

I think Trump paid for the creation of the dossier to use as a strawman he could poke holes in. The dossier had some salacious details but pales in comparison to the sorts of things that a morally bankrupt narcissist with mob ties would do to pretend to be a billionaire. Hard to imagine Trump ever saying no to a deal and there is so much dirty money out there that other people wouldn't touch. Hence you have a gullible idiot who thinks he's a kingpin falling into dirty money.

So, yeah, the pee tape is a funny story but it's not the sort of thing that lands you in jail. For crying out loud, this is a guy who raped his own wife and his defense was that it wasn't technically rape under NY law.

Bottom line, Trump is hiding something far worse and we may never find out unless Mueller is as much of a boss as people hope he is.

[removes cap]

dajo9 said:

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I really don't think Trump could be blackmailed by a pee tape. Think about it - all he'd have to do is say, yeah I watched two girls pee on a bed and shrug his shoulders. His base wouldn't care.

The blackmail is that Trump's entire financial empire is funded by Russian money laundering and Putin has all the receipts.

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It reminds me of people hoping that The Apprentice N-word tapes would be released.

Like hearing Trump say the N-word would give Trump supporters and Republicans as a whole some moral clarity.

wifeisafurd said:

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blungld said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Sebastabear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Sebastabear said:

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I also fall into the centrist camp (and I generally try to avoid OT issues altogether) but even I logged into BI just to say, this is simply beyond the pall. I watched this "press conference". The bumbling incoherence, the megalomaniacal focus on self over country, the support of a tyrannical thug over our law enforcement and the jaw-dropping statements of moral equivalence between the US and Russia were unlike anything I have ever seen in my life. This man is a traitor to his party and to his country. I have never been more ashamed of American politics.

---

yea, sorry I meant press conference (not coverage - thank you automatic spellchecker).

---

That's funny. I actually assumed you meant press coverage since that also seemed to hit an all time low (or high, depending on how you look at it) yesterday. I just put "press conference" in quotes since I don't know what that thing was yesterday, but it certainly was unlike any "press conference" between two state leaders I've ever seen; much less the leader of the world's oldest continuous democracy and the man determined to end democracy as we know it. I think it was more like a puppet show or a live broadcast of blackmail - take your pick.

---

My thinking was probably the latter. You don't say out loud my National Security Advisor said this and I don't agree with him unless Putin has pictures.

---

I believe you referred to discussion on these boards last year about the Russian investigation as Liberal circle jerk--glad you've joined in.

---

In fairness, whatever I commented on had weird cr@p on it, but I enjoy being the dissenter, even though I'm probably too middle of the road to give the conservative view it's best defense. I'm not sure even the staunchest of Republicans believes the Russians didn't try to help the Sanders and Trump campaigns, as any number of senior security officials unanimously (at least until Trump presser) had been saying. There probably is some dispute as to how effective the Russians were in their meddling (its not like the Russians ordered Clinton to not visit Michigan, etc.)

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Well, grab some Kleenex and pull up a chair. There's room for all in the circle.

Another Bear said:

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I'd guess it's the Russian "banking" (aka money laundering) is being used as blackmail but there probably is a Pee Tape and the DNC break in was probably planned, is a conspiracy. In other words, it's everything.

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It's three things (at least):

1) info that would crumble his companies and financial health.

2) info that would embarrass him and/or his family.

3) info that shows his election is illegitimate.

None of that now seems inplausable and any one of the three explain every action of the past 2-3 years. This does not seem complicated or tough to figure out.

dajo9 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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blungld said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Sebastabear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Sebastabear said:

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I also fall into the centrist camp (and I generally try to avoid OT issues altogether) but even I logged into BI just to say, this is simply beyond the pall. I watched this "press conference". The bumbling incoherence, the megalomaniacal focus on self over country, the support of a tyrannical thug over our law enforcement and the jaw-dropping statements of moral equivalence between the US and Russia were unlike anything I have ever seen in my life. This man is a traitor to his party and to his country. I have never been more ashamed of American politics.

---

yea, sorry I meant press conference (not coverage - thank you automatic spellchecker).

---

That's funny. I actually assumed you meant press coverage since that also seemed to hit an all time low (or high, depending on how you look at it) yesterday. I just put "press conference" in quotes since I don't know what that thing was yesterday, but it certainly was unlike any "press conference" between two state leaders I've ever seen; much less the leader of the world's oldest continuous democracy and the man determined to end democracy as we know it. I think it was more like a puppet show or a live broadcast of blackmail - take your pick.

---

My thinking was probably the latter. You don't say out loud my National Security Advisor said this and I don't agree with him unless Putin has pictures.

---

I believe you referred to discussion on these boards last year about the Russian investigation as Liberal circle jerk--glad you've joined in.

---

In fairness, whatever I commented on had weird cr@p on it, but I enjoy being the dissenter, even though I'm probably too middle of the road to give the conservative view it's best defense.

---

The Odonto defense -

"I'm so middle of the road that everything i say immediately becomes centrist"

Hillary Clinton was the middle of the road candidate in 2016. You didn't vote for her.

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Not the public's perception at the time of election.Voters Used To See Moderation In Trump. Not Anymore. http://53eig.ht/2qopJbW

Yogi Bear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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In fairness, whatever I commented on had weird cr@p on it

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If you called it a liberal circle jerk, you are the weird crap.

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I think blngold and I know something you don't.

"Yes, almost every elected Republican we talk to privately thinks President Trump's warm embrace of Vladimir Putin was unexplainable, unacceptable and un-American.

Yes, they wish they could say this publicly.
No, they won't not now, and probably never.
The cold, hard reason: They see no upside in speaking out and fear political suicide if they do, numerous Republican officials tell us." Axios

bearister said:

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"Yes, almost every elected Republican we talk to privately thinks President Trump's warm embrace of Vladimir Putin was unexplainable, unacceptable and un-American.

Yes, they wish they could say this publicly.
No, they won't not now, and probably never.
The cold, hard reason: They see no upside in speaking out and fear political suicide if they do, numerous Republican officials tell us." Axios

---

It's one thing to think it (still angers me though) but it's another to say it and to have it be so taken in stride by media and voters: when did our elected officials job become to win re-election rather than to govern and follow the oath of office? They openly give "political suicide" and costing votes as reasons for policy positions. They should be fired and lambasted if that is their reason for doing anything. And yet we all act like that is legitimate. Takes all pressure for them to perform and do right when party loyalty is seen as legitimate.

blungld said:

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bearister said:

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"Yes, almost every elected Republican we talk to privately thinks President Trump's warm embrace of Vladimir Putin was unexplainable, unacceptable and un-American.

Yes, they wish they could say this publicly.
No, they won't not now, and probably never.
The cold, hard reason: They see no upside in speaking out and fear political suicide if they do, numerous Republican officials tell us." Axios

---

It's one thing to think it (still angers me though) but it's another to say it and to have it be so taken in stride by media and voters: when did our elected officials job become to win re-election rather than to govern and follow the oath of office? They openly give "political suicide" and costing votes as reasons for policy positions. They should be fired and lambasted if that is their reason for doing anything. And yet we all act like that is legitimate. Takes all pressure for them to perform and do right when party loyalty is seen as legitimate.

---

You can't make this **** up. There are Republicans sitting around Trump at these photo ops who are blinking S.O.S. and torture in Morse code like prisoners of war paraded before the media during Vietnam. History will not be kind to those who allowed a foreign country to disrupt our political process. Time doesn't make a sycophant less pitiful or tolerable.

Trump comforts a nation by saying that Russia is no longer targeting the US, offering a vigorous rebuke to Yesterday Trump, who strongly clarified Day Before Trump.

Leon Panetta on tRump:

https://dailym.ai/2NZdVoj

Trump unable to outright dismiss a Putin proposal to allow Russia to question several US officials for "crimes" committed by Bill Browder. What exactly needs to be considered?



I'm Bill Browder. Here's the Biggest Mistake Putin Made When Trying to Get Access to Me Through Trump:

"The biggest mistake that Putin made in his offer today to effectively swap me for the 12 Russian agents is that he went to the wrong head of state. Although I was born in America, I emigrated to the United Kingdom 29 years ago and am a British citizen. If he really wants me, he better go talk to Theresa May, who might have a few choice words for him after Russian agents spread the military-grade nerve agent Novichok across the cathedral town of Salisbury, England."

B.A. Bearacus said:

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Trump unable to outright dismiss a Putin proposal to allow Russia to question several US officials for "crimes" committed by Bill Browder. What exactly needs to be considered?



I'm Bill Browder. Here's the Biggest Mistake Putin Made When Trying to Get Access to Me Through Trump:

"The biggest mistake that Putin made in his offer today to effectively swap me for the 12 Russian agents is that he went to the wrong head of state. Although I was born in America, I emigrated to the United Kingdom 29 years ago and am a British citizen. If he really wants me, he better go talk to Theresa May, who might have a few choice words for him after Russian agents spread the military-grade nerve agent Novichok across the cathedral town of Salisbury, England."

---

A couple of Stanfurd guys. I'm starting to like the idea.

Next up, Trump has agreed to let Paul Manafort meet with Russian authorities in a remote forest location known for quirky disappearances with the hope that the Russian authorities will help get to the bottom of the American Election interference issues.