Where is the subpoena from Mueller?

2,417 Views | 19 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by bearister
wifeisafurd
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This was about to get buried in the thread about Italian bridges thread since people in O'T are so fixated about Trump they can't deal with other issues. But someone wondered why Trump won't meet with Mueller, something he has no obligation to do, and as was pointed out, no defense attorney would allow (I'm assuming that is correct, since I'm not a criminal lawyer). (Note, Clinton was served subpoenas and then agreed to meet with Starr and his staff at the White House).

But that begs the question as to why Mueller simply will not subpoena Trump to testify before the grand jury to compel his testimony? Given that Trump's lawyers have argued (incorrectly?), that a sitting President cannot be subpoenaed to the grand jury, it may be that Mueller wants to avoid the protracted litigation that would erupt concerning the legality/enforceability of such a subpoena, and further, that is a set-up for an attack on Mueller that he has exceeded his authority to the extent he wants to ask the President about matter not directly related to the Russians influencing the election (which gets it down to basically asking Trump Sr. knew about the Trump Tower meeting and arguably, why did he fire Comey, and not much else (so things that Mueller looked at with Stormy Daniels or Mike Cohen, now become off topic). Remember also that Justice has said publicly that Trump is not a target of Mueller's investigation, so the courts may not be so easily swayed.

Another possibility is that as the evidence developed, Trump may have moved to being a "target." If this is the case, then Department of Justice policies would prevent using a grand jury subpoena to compel Trump Sr. to testify, and the subpoena is a set-up for a refusal to answer questions to any grand jury based on privileges (Trump would assert executive privilege and if Mueller went to court, he probably loses because the court says we don't even have to rule o executive privilege since the 5th amendment right against incrimination applies to a target, so who cares what he asserted?). In that regards, there are a number of relevant players who conspicuously have not been subpoenaed (as far as we know) including Manafort, Gates before he was indicted, Roger Stone, Kushner, Trump Jr. and president Trump.


So where does that leave Mueller if Trump Sr. is a target? Mueller will have gather as much evidence that he can reach informed conclusions about how to proceed without securing the president's testimony. That may not be such a big deal depending on what information Mueller is able to glean from lower level players. In any event, there is a strong possibility Trump may never be questioned by Mueller outside a trial.
Another Bear
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My guess on this, L'affair du Dotard will be settled in a democratic and American way, via mid-term elections. If the house flips and it looks very likely, then it's a new game and what Mueller does will matter and he'll be given plenty of cover to complete his mission. I wouldn't underestimate him.

Meanwhile the Democrats will turn the screws with GINORMUS industrial machinery and a special mega-ton screw until it catches GOP rectal hairs and it bores down into the very soul of the Republicans...and they won't be able to do a damn thing about it. They played their hand...RUSSKIES!!!!...this will be pay back beotches!

Surfs up broheim...gonna flush the GOP/Russkie Pee Party down the crapper. Putin's favorite congressman will be the first to make the journey..then the rest.



The Democratic wave is growing

Carry on...
Golden One
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Another Bear said:

My guess on this, L'affair du Dotard will be settled in a democratic and American way, via mid-term elections. If the house flips and it looks very likely, then it's a new game and what Mueller does will matter and he'll be given plenty of cover to complete his mission. I wouldn't underestimate him.

Meanwhile the Democrats will turn the screws with GINORMUS industrial machinery and a special mega-ton screw until it catches GOP rectal hairs and it bores down into the very soul of the Republicans...and they won't be able to do a damn thing about it. They played their hand...RUSSKIES!!!!...this will be pay back beotches!

Surfs up broheim...gonna flush the GOP/Russkie Pee Party down the crapper. Putin's favorite congressman will be the first to make the journey..then the rest.



The Democratic wave is growing

Carry on...

You forget that even if the Democrats takeover the House (a possibility which looks increasingly unlikely), the Republicans will still hold a majority in the Senate (in fact they will almost certainly increase their majority). So, I don't expect that much will change due to the mid-term elections. I also wouldn't be surprised if Mueller concludes his investigation prior to the November election. Sorry to disappoint you.
Another Bear
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Golden One
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Red wave is coming!

https://www.dailywire.com/news/30581/ex-clinton-adviser-no-blue-wave-coming-only-red-ryan-saavedra

https://spectator.org/beware-the-red-wave/
Another Bear
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golden sloth
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Another Bear said:







I like the turn you took this thread, as I'm getting tired of every thread turning into a partisan pissing match, and I enjoy nature's beauty. The ocean, it is beautiful.

wifeisafurd
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Another Bear said:

My guess on this, L'affair du Dotard will be settled in a democratic and American way, via mid-term elections. If the house flips and it looks very likely, then it's a new game and what Mueller does will matter and he'll be given plenty of cover to complete his mission. I wouldn't underestimate him.

Meanwhile the Democrats will turn the screws with GINORMUS industrial machinery and a special mega-ton screw until it catches GOP rectal hairs and it bores down into the very soul of the Republicans...and they won't be able to do a damn thing about it. They played their hand...RUSSKIES!!!!...this will be pay back beotches!

Surfs up broheim...gonna flush the GOP/Russkie Pee Party down the crapper. Putin's favorite congressman will be the first to make the journey..then the rest.



The Democratic wave is growing

Carry on...

Great picture, kinda dumb comment from a legal standpoint. Why Mueller's findings in the Trump-Russia probe may never see the light of day https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/19/17139490/mueller-trump-russia-final-report?utm_campaign=vox&utm_content=entry&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter via @voxdotcom.

Not until the Dems take over both houses will the Mueller report see the light of day (unless Trump is not indicted, in which case Rosenstein will plaster the damn report over every building in DC). Unlike what another poster said, i don't see Mueller's report being finished before mid-terms or any time soon.

The House Dems would have to launch their own investigation which would be discouraged by Mueller and legal experts for a variety of reasons (e.g., they would have to give witnesses immunity).

Mueller doesn't need anyone's coverage. Trump and surrogates have dumped a whole lot of abuse on Mueller w/o any real effect (not the first time a President has done this). Mueller can simply indict Trump if the facts warrant. Impeachment is a political process that doesn't really depend on Mueller. But to succeed there would need to be control of both houses of Congress.
wifeisafurd
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golden sloth said:

Another Bear said:







I like the turn you took this thread, as I'm getting tired of every thread turning into a partisan pissing match, and I enjoy nature's beauty. The ocean, it is beautiful.


yes please keep the surf pictures coming.
wifeisafurd
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golden sloth said:

Another Bear said:







I like the turn you took this thread, as I'm getting tired of every thread turning into a partisan pissing match, and I enjoy nature's beauty. The ocean, it is beautiful.


Best surf art ever:

https://goo.gl/images/FBtPz1
concordtom
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Wife,
I don't know about all that Mueller has on Trump, whether he will subpoena him, how it will play out.
But Trump needs to be publicly flogged for being a jerk, a liar, an attacker.
We need iconic individuals of character as our leaders, to set a good example to our grandchildren.
Not reality tv show attention seeking narcissists.
Another Bear
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Big Blue Wave just got pumped by Tropical Storm Manafort and Tropical Storm Cohen.

Looks like it's gonna hurt like a son of beotch... Take cover GOP yer gonna get flushed.



sycasey
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concordtom said:

Wife,
I don't know about all that Mueller has on Trump, whether he will subpoena him, how it will play out.
But Trump needs to be publicly flogged for being a jerk, a liar, an attacker.
We need iconic individuals of character as our leaders, to set a good example to our grandchildren.
Not reality tv show attention seeking narcissists.
I think there is a sense within the Justice Department that they CAN'T compel an existing President to testify.

Hence Mueller farming out some of the Cohen stuff to the State of New York. States have no such restrictions.
Anarchistbear
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sycasey said:

concordtom said:

Wife,
I don't know about all that Mueller has on Trump, whether he will subpoena him, how it will play out.
But Trump needs to be publicly flogged for being a jerk, a liar, an attacker.
We need iconic individuals of character as our leaders, to set a good example to our grandchildren.
Not reality tv show attention seeking narcissists.
I think there is a sense within the Justice Department that they CAN'T compel an existing President to testify.

Hence Mueller farming out some of the Cohen stuff to the State of New York. States have no such restrictions.


Cohen was prosecuted by federal prosecutors in the southern district not the State of New York. I think Mueller referred it to them because Cohen was not thought material to his Russian brief but that might not be true. At any rate the issue to indict on the current Cohen plea will rest with DOJ not the State of New York- that is Jeff Sessions.
Another Bear
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Well, well...it seems the world or Fox News has flipped, or might be doing real polling. Two Fox News polls show trends that aren't what conservatives want.

A). 59% of people approve of the Mueller investigation...and this was before Manafort was convicted
B) Obamacare is more popular than the GOP tax cut

BTW, red tide KILLS. Blue waves meanwhile are coming...generational change.



bearister
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Rodrigo Koxa on 80 footer in Nazareth, Portugal:



Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
golden sloth
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Another Bear said:

Well, well...it seems the world or Fox News has flipped, or might be doing real polling. Two Fox News polls show trends that aren't what conservatives want.

A). 59% of people approve of the Mueller investigation...and this was before Manafort was convicted
B) Obamacare is more popular than the GOP tax cut

BTW, red tide KILLS. Blue waves meanwhile are coming...generational change.




To complicate the metaphor, at night, red tides appear like blue waves, but in the light of day, nothing has changed.



Politically speaking though, I think the dem's narrowly take the house while the senate remains the same, and nothing gets done in 2019 and 2020.
wifeisafurd
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Another Bear said:

Big Blue Wave just got pumped by Tropical Storm Manafort and Tropical Storm Cohen.

Looks like it's gonna hurt like a son of beotch... Take cover GOP yer gonna get flushed.




This is an awesome picture.
wifeisafurd
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bearister said:

Rodrigo Koxa on 80 footer in Nazareth, Portugal:




for the non-surfers, this considered the largest wave ever sued.
golden sloth
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wifeisafurd said:

bearister said:

Rodrigo Koxa on 80 footer in Nazareth, Portugal:




for the non-surfers, this considered the largest wave ever sued.
I didn't know we could sue waves. Liability laws are really out of control.
bearister
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8 barrel ride:

https://twistedsifter.com/videos/koa-smith-catches-wave-of-a-lifetime-at-skeleton-bay-namibia/
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
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