I'm old enough to remember when porous borders was a conservative position (Reagan Republican) so that business could exploit the labor
Trump's big National Emergency speech on Tuesday
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Last: 5 yr ago by dajo9
Anarchistbear said:concordtom said:The border is porous. As stated above, I know illegal people who've crossed many times.Anarchistbear said:
There is no need for a wall; there is no need for a Democrat compromise of "securing our border". The border is secure. These people are walking into here. The crisis is a deranged, inefficient and heartless state.
But trump's proposal is a non-starter b/c it's more about emotion than closing the border.
I'm all good with discussing a plan to resolve the porous border. I am not okay with trump's lies, inability to discuss fact, and whipping up racist and xenophobic attitudes.
It's less porous than you think. The numbers of "classic" illegals- mostly singles- who crossed from Mexico seeking work has plummeted.going from 1.5 million in year 2000 to about 400.000 in 2018. Asylum seekers - mostly families not from Mexico- have gone from less than 10,000 to 120,000 per year in the same period. Currently there is a backlog of more than 750,000 people waiting for their cases to be heard making it by far the biggest burden on the system
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/border-asylum-claims/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c5fab9fa2322
Where and what should these 750,000 people be doing while they are asking for asylum? Is poverty a valid reason for asylum? If they are from South of Mexico, why isn't Mexico offering asylum? Is there a certain amount of people that should be granted asylum per day? How many of those that used to cross individually now cross in a group claiming asylum? How does the USA verify or fact check an asylum claim as being worthy? Is it easier to verify an asylum claim of a Mexican national versus, say, a Guatemalan? Should non-Latinos be allowed to claim asylum from the Southern border? Do Middle Easterners, Asians, Africans, and Europeans do so?
bearister said:
"He is a joke! He is a clown! He is incompetent! He is full of malice and meanness, but the one thing that he will never be is taken seriously. He has no ability to forward a domestic agenda of any type. He is reckless on the international stage. And so we see here the con man being exposed, people have come to see the wizard and the wizard has promised them the great wall of Trump paid for by the Mexicans, but at the moment for the unveiling of the wall, it appears to be an invisible one. And where are the pesos? Where are the Mexican pesos that the American people were promised would pay for this wall. There are no pesos!"
Steve Schmidt
Tariff money must be appropriated by Congress. As far as I know, the tariffs are in dollars, not pesos.
Tariffs are paid by Americans, which gets to the point of the quote. Mexico is supposed to pay for the wall. The idea that tariffs equate to Mexico paying for the wall is a simple lie.oski003 said:bearister said:
"He is a joke! He is a clown! He is incompetent! He is full of malice and meanness, but the one thing that he will never be is taken seriously. He has no ability to forward a domestic agenda of any type. He is reckless on the international stage. And so we see here the con man being exposed, people have come to see the wizard and the wizard has promised them the great wall of Trump paid for by the Mexicans, but at the moment for the unveiling of the wall, it appears to be an invisible one. And where are the pesos? Where are the Mexican pesos that the American people were promised would pay for this wall. There are no pesos!"
Steve Schmidt
Tariff money must be appropriated by Congress. As far as I know, the tariffs are in dollars, not pesos.
oski003 said:Anarchistbear said:concordtom said:The border is porous. As stated above, I know illegal people who've crossed many times.Anarchistbear said:
There is no need for a wall; there is no need for a Democrat compromise of "securing our border". The border is secure. These people are walking into here. The crisis is a deranged, inefficient and heartless state.
But trump's proposal is a non-starter b/c it's more about emotion than closing the border.
I'm all good with discussing a plan to resolve the porous border. I am not okay with trump's lies, inability to discuss fact, and whipping up racist and xenophobic attitudes.
It's less porous than you think. The numbers of "classic" illegals- mostly singles- who crossed from Mexico seeking work has plummeted.going from 1.5 million in year 2000 to about 400.000 in 2018. Asylum seekers - mostly families not from Mexico- have gone from less than 10,000 to 120,000 per year in the same period. Currently there is a backlog of more than 750,000 people waiting for their cases to be heard making it by far the biggest burden on the system
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/border-asylum-claims/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c5fab9fa2322
Where and what should these 750,000 people be doing while they are asking for asylum? Is poverty a valid reason for asylum? If they are from South of Mexico, why isn't Mexico offering asylum? Is there a certain amount of people that should be granted asylum per day? How many of those that used to cross individually now cross in a group claiming asylum? How does the USA verify or fact check an asylum claim as being worthy? Is it easier to verify an asylum claim of a Mexican national versus, say, a Guatemalan? Should non-Latinos be allowed to claim asylum from the Southern border? Do Middle Easterners, Asians, Africans, and Europeans do so?
Many are dumped into communities wait on their own recognizance since detention and processing is incomplete. No resources are provided.
Poverty is not a valid reason.
Political asylum has been granted to Vietnamese, Hmong , Africans, Iranians, Jews, etc from former Soviet Union, Serbs, Iraquis, others
It would be almost impossible to get political asylum from Mexico since there is less obvious political persecution by government.
It is hard for anyone to get asylum these days even if you are from a war zone like Syria.
The country has mostly closed its borders to those who came here as our forefathers did
I'm fairly certain all except the most hard core conservatives cringed at that statement. That is not the optics they want.
I'm kind of surprised at the number of conservatives that still believe Trump actually wants a wall. He doesn't. If he did he would have made a deal with the Democrats to get that wall. But the great dealmaker doesn't want a deal, he isn't even trying. He would rather argue about a wall, shutdown the government, distract the country with manufactured drama and inflame the anger and divisions within the country, so he can continue to run the most corrupt administration in my lifetime.
"The one thing that the President has not talked about is the fact that he has systematically engaged in the violation of international human rights on our border. He has separated children from their families. He talked about what happened the day after Christmason the day of Christmas, a child died in [Customs and Border Protection] custody. The President should not be asking for more money to an agency that has systematically violated human rights; the President should be really defending why we are funding such an agency at all. Because right now what we are seeing is death, right now what we are seeing is the violation of human rights, these children and these families are being held in what are called hieleras, which are basically freezing boxes that no person should be maintained in for any amount of time. . . . He is trying to restrict every form of legal immigration there is in the United States. He is fighting against family reunification, he's fighting against the diversity visa lottery. . . . This is systematic, it is wrong, and it is anti-American.."
One of the few politicians who said anything remotely intelligent last night.
One of the few politicians who said anything remotely intelligent last night.
Trump doesn't really care about the wall, or anyone really. Trump (and Stephen Miller) is spewing old fashion anti-immigration rhetoric, basically speaking out of both sides of his mouth at one.
Here is a fact: the U.S. had depended on immigrants since the get go. Irish, Italian, Germans, Chinese and many more to do the dirty work, fill the factories with labor, build infrastructure, fill Silicon Valley with engineers. This is the reality and it's still the case today...who da fuq do you think picks your food?
The anti-immigrant rhetoric has been in the U.S. since the get-go...let them in to work, DEMONIZE them as the cause of economic trouble when the going gets tough.
Here's the thing, in the modern work people realize immigrants make things better. Y'all enjoy some tacos and burritos? Well that just didnt' happen here...immigrants brought like they brought pasta, Chinese food and a bunch of other things...and OH GOD DAMN...people like that stuff. Just imagein California without Mexican food.
Trump and company are straight up fascist playing the old school FEAR MONGER game, but it ain't working mostly because Trump is so incompetent and transparent. Many experts have rung in saying the wall is worthless. Most drugs come through ports of entry. And terrorist...more terrorist come over the Canadian border than the Southern border.
In any case, methinks the other shoe has dropped. Manafort gave the Russkie election data. Trump Jr is going to be indicted and Mueller is warm up the hold cell.
Here is a fact: the U.S. had depended on immigrants since the get go. Irish, Italian, Germans, Chinese and many more to do the dirty work, fill the factories with labor, build infrastructure, fill Silicon Valley with engineers. This is the reality and it's still the case today...who da fuq do you think picks your food?
The anti-immigrant rhetoric has been in the U.S. since the get-go...let them in to work, DEMONIZE them as the cause of economic trouble when the going gets tough.
Here's the thing, in the modern work people realize immigrants make things better. Y'all enjoy some tacos and burritos? Well that just didnt' happen here...immigrants brought like they brought pasta, Chinese food and a bunch of other things...and OH GOD DAMN...people like that stuff. Just imagein California without Mexican food.
Trump and company are straight up fascist playing the old school FEAR MONGER game, but it ain't working mostly because Trump is so incompetent and transparent. Many experts have rung in saying the wall is worthless. Most drugs come through ports of entry. And terrorist...more terrorist come over the Canadian border than the Southern border.
In any case, methinks the other shoe has dropped. Manafort gave the Russkie election data. Trump Jr is going to be indicted and Mueller is warm up the hold cell.
Peanut Gallery Consultant
Trump is like a hostage taker with no game plan. The kind they never make movies about. He went into this shutdown because Ann Coulter shamed him and he didn't have an exit strategy. I think this ends one of two ways: (i) he declares an emergency, and (ii) congress overrides his veto. The longer he takes to declare an emergency the more likely the second scenario plays out. Someone needs to save him because he doesn't know what to do with his hostages.
As AB said above and I've said a few times previously, he doesn't want to build a wall he wants to talk about building a wall to keep his base activated and, even more, he wants to whinge about how no one will let him build his wall. Trump playing the victim reassures his base that they are not alone in their victimhood, even a wealthy, successful silver spoon elite like Trump is a victim. It's the thing he has most in common with his base.
As AB said above and I've said a few times previously, he doesn't want to build a wall he wants to talk about building a wall to keep his base activated and, even more, he wants to whinge about how no one will let him build his wall. Trump playing the victim reassures his base that they are not alone in their victimhood, even a wealthy, successful silver spoon elite like Trump is a victim. It's the thing he has most in common with his base.
"I'm cutting off all fire relief funds for Pleasure, California..er...ah..I mean Paradise."
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
I'm not a hard-liner about this (I can see arguments for why you might need strong border security), but if I had to choose between the two extremes -- completely open border vs. completely closed -- then I most definitely choose the former.Anarchistbear said:
It's less porous than you think. The numbers of "classic" illegals- mostly singles- who crossed from Mexico seeking work has plummeted.going from 1.5 million in year 2000 to about 400.000 in 2018. Asylum seekers - mostly families not from Mexico- have gone from less than 10,000 to 120,000 per year in the same period. Currently there is a backlog of more than 750,000 people waiting for their cases to be heard making it by far the biggest burden on the system
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/border-asylum-claims/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c5fab9fa2322
http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/25-general-chapman's-last-stand
https://medium.com/s/story/the-unintended-cruelty-of-americas-immigration-policies-25c008b58d3e
Trying to restrict and control all human migration into your borders is a fool's errand. It doesn't have the effect you want. You can't actually keep everyone out; people will move where they need to for safety and/or money. Past a certain point (and IMO the United States is certainly past that point now), building a "wall" to immigrants doesn't help keep people OUT, it just helps keep them IN. Meaning, they won't just come in for a little while to make money and then go back when conditions are better in their home countries, they'll plant themselves here and send for their families. That's certainly what's happened since the U.S. government started cracking down on "illegal immigration" back in the 70s, and now we're left with the mess of DACA and kids in cages and Trump shutting down the government because he wants a literal wall.
Maybe we should start going the other way? Just let people in if they're not dangerous? Continued escalation doesn't seem to solve anything.
Since Alta California was Spanish, then Mexican, then Californio, before it was 'Mericun' I think Mexican food has been around longer than our republic.Another Bear said:
Trump doesn't really care about the wall, or anyone really. Trump (and Stephen Miller) is spewing old fashion anti-immigration rhetoric, basically speaking out of both sides of his mouth at one.
Here is a fact: the U.S. had depended on immigrants since the get go. Irish, Italian, Germans, Chinese and many more to do the dirty work, fill the factories with labor, build infrastructure, fill Silicon Valley with engineers. This is the reality and it's still the case today...who da fuq do you think picks your food?
The anti-immigrant rhetoric has been in the U.S. since the get-go...let them in to work, DEMONIZE them as the cause of economic trouble when the going gets tough.
Here's the thing, in the modern work people realize immigrants make things better. Y'all enjoy some tacos and burritos? Well that just didnt' happen here...immigrants brought like they brought pasta, Chinese food and a bunch of other things...and OH GOD DAMN...people like that stuff. Just imagine California without Mexican food.
Trump and company are straight up fascist playing the old school FEAR MONGER game, but it ain't working mostly because Trump is so incompetent and transparent. Many experts have rung in saying the wall is worthless. Most drugs come through ports of entry. And terrorist...more terrorist come over the Canadian border than the Southern border.
In any case, methinks the other shoe has dropped. Manafort gave the Russkie election data. Trump Jr is going to be indicted and Mueller is warm up the hold cell.
WE have the lowest illegal border crossings in 45 years, the crisis is that it can't be improved much, The Law of Diminishing Returns trumps Trump's fake facts...
You do realize she is from a red state? AKA Louisiana...bearister said:
"I'm cutting off all fire relief funds for Pleasure, California..er...ah..I mean Paradise."
You insult those LA ladies at your own extreme peril.
You're right about Calfironia's history but all the Californios and Chicanos who have been in California before becoming a state aren't running taco trucks. They might own a taqueria but the big push in Mexican (all ethnic food) comes from immigrants trying to make it. LA is great example, and not just Mexican food. The Chicanos I grew up would NEVER eat at taco truck back in the day...self-stigmatizing, trying to avoid hate...but that was when Chicanos and Latinos were demonized and shamed (Juan Crow in SoCal, still exists but has changed). They're still targets of hate and obviously shamed (see Trump) but power in numbers and a society open to diversity has changed things.sp4149 said:Since Alta California was Spanish, then Mexican, then Californio, before it was 'Mericun' I think Mexican food has been around longer than our republic.Another Bear said:
Trump doesn't really care about the wall, or anyone really. Trump (and Stephen Miller) is spewing old fashion anti-immigration rhetoric, basically speaking out of both sides of his mouth at one.
Here is a fact: the U.S. had depended on immigrants since the get go. Irish, Italian, Germans, Chinese and many more to do the dirty work, fill the factories with labor, build infrastructure, fill Silicon Valley with engineers. This is the reality and it's still the case today...who da fuq do you think picks your food?
The anti-immigrant rhetoric has been in the U.S. since the get-go...let them in to work, DEMONIZE them as the cause of economic trouble when the going gets tough.
Here's the thing, in the modern work people realize immigrants make things better. Y'all enjoy some tacos and burritos? Well that just didnt' happen here...immigrants brought like they brought pasta, Chinese food and a bunch of other things...and OH GOD DAMN...people like that stuff. Just imagine California without Mexican food.
Trump and company are straight up fascist playing the old school FEAR MONGER game, but it ain't working mostly because Trump is so incompetent and transparent. Many experts have rung in saying the wall is worthless. Most drugs come through ports of entry. And terrorist...more terrorist come over the Canadian border than the Southern border.
In any case, methinks the other shoe has dropped. Manafort gave the Russkie election data. Trump Jr is going to be indicted and Mueller is warm up the hold cell.
WE have the lowest illegal border crossings in 45 years, the crisis is that it can't be improved much, The Law of Diminishing Returns trumps Trump's fake facts...
In any case, agree...the Southern border stuff is a hoax to play to the base.
Peanut Gallery Consultant
Undocumented labor is one reason I have called San Diego the capital of the State of Denial after I moved here nearly 20 years ago. Even though I had been responsible for facility support contracts for the Navy West Coast; I was not allowed to review San Diego area contracts until I was relocated here. San Diego was the only region on the West Coast where contractor employees did not have to be US citizens, they did not even have to have green cards. Our largest base did not require contractors to have base vehicle passes or for employees to have base or contractor ID badges. (They didn't have to show base security " No stink'ng badges" ) At the time the border patrol did not check vehicles for undocumented laborers until they tried to leave San Diego county.FuzzyWuzzy said:Our land borders and coastlines and airports should not be porous. Does anyone disagree with that? The first immigration discussion should be about how to make them non-porous. I'm against a wall on our land borders primarily because it's Trump's baby. I have personal contempt for the man and root for his political and personal misfortune. But if a wall is cost-effective, I recognize it is an irrational position to take.concordtom said:
...
I'm all good with discussing a plan to resolve the porous border. I am not okay with trump's lies, inability to discuss fact, and whipping up racist and xenophobic attitudes.
The second discussion should be about which kinds of legal immigration should be allowed, and how much. We do benefit greatly from cheap labor, and also skilled labor. Should it be based on what kind of labor we need? Should it be based on how bad their life is in their home country (asylum/refugee)? Do we favor those who can walk to a border and submit an asylum claim? Only Canadians and Latin Americans can do that. What about relatives - parents, children, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, others?
Undocumented laborers were not just hanging out in front of Home Depot, they were employed by the housing developers who advertised for workers with Spanish language billboards facing TJ. The whole San Diego region would not have been competitive without the massive numbers of low cost labor available next door. Now many of these jobs had belonged to US citizens who lost their jobs due to outsourcing. Security was a joke, since we did not trust these 'foreign workers' they were only allowed to work in buildings after the Navy employees left the building.
A well thought out guest worker program is badly needed. WE used to have one but Dixiecrats back in the sixties bullied the Democratic party into ending it. The reasons were mainly Eugenics, similar to what was proposed recently by AG Sessions, to ban the entry into the USA by immigrants who were not Northern European, aka Catholic or Hispanic. Nixon convinced the Dixiecrats to join the Republican party and recently they have run the country. One of the major benefits of a guest worker program is that the workers are free to leave and return later. They live in the open without fear of deportation or having to make an illegal entry to return to work.
It would be easier to manage guest workers than trying to prevent border crossings by willing workers.
Well, see now, that is all far too logical. And that is why Trump must go away as fast as possible. Because logic has nothing to do with this man. He is not interested in solutions that make sense or work for the USA. He is only interested in personal power, wealth, control, fame and big boobs.FuzzyWuzzy said:Our land borders and coastlines and airports should not be porous. Does anyone disagree with that? The first immigration discussion should be about how to make them non-porous. I'm against a wall on our land borders primarily because it's Trump's baby. I have personal contempt for the man and root for his political and personal misfortune. But if a wall is cost-effective, I recognize it is an irrational position to take.concordtom said:The border is porous. As stated above, I know illegal people who've crossed many times.Anarchistbear said:
There is no need for a wall; there is no need for a Democrat compromise of "securing our border". The border is secure. These people are walking into here. The crisis is a deranged, inefficient and heartless state.
But trump's proposal is a non-starter b/c it's more about emotion than closing the border.
I'm all good with discussing a plan to resolve the porous border. I am not okay with trump's lies, inability to discuss fact, and whipping up racist and xenophobic attitudes.
The second discussion should be about which kinds of legal immigration should be allowed, and how much. We do benefit greatly from cheap labor, and also skilled labor. Should it be based on what kind of labor we need? Should it be based on how bad their life is in their home country (asylum/refugee)? Do we favor those who can walk to a border and submit an asylum claim? Only Canadians and Latin Americans can do that. What about relatives - parents, children, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, others?
That's still far too many.Anarchistbear said:concordtom said:The border is porous. As stated above, I know illegal people who've crossed many times.Anarchistbear said:
There is no need for a wall; there is no need for a Democrat compromise of "securing our border". The border is secure. These people are walking into here. The crisis is a deranged, inefficient and heartless state.
But trump's proposal is a non-starter b/c it's more about emotion than closing the border.
I'm all good with discussing a plan to resolve the porous border. I am not okay with trump's lies, inability to discuss fact, and whipping up racist and xenophobic attitudes.
It's less porous than you think. The numbers of "classic" illegals- mostly singles- who crossed from Mexico seeking work has plummeted.going from 1.5 million in year 2000 to about 400.000 in 2018. Asylum seekers - mostly families not from Mexico- have gone from less than 10,000 to 120,000 per year in the same period. Currently there is a backlog of more than 750,000 people waiting for their cases to be heard making it by far the biggest burden on the system
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/border-asylum-claims/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c5fab9fa2322
I'm not saying none should be allowed in, but we should have control over our borders. You cannot tell me we have secure border when 400,000 cross every year. Tell me, what's the population of San Francisco?
If we want to allow immigrants, it should be done according to our rules. 400,000 is a gaping hole in that rule!
Trump taking on this issue is merely a grab to own a fear-trigger issue that gets wackos all excited. The man is a pig. Get rid of him and then we can have discussions in earnest.
Both Dems AND reps have punted largely on this issue for decades. Trump is right to raise it, but the way he does is insane, but of course that makes sense because he himself is insane.
He is rude and corrosive.
He makes this the sole focus of his presidency to the detriment of all else.
To hell with him!
Don't forget El Salvador!Anarchistbear said:
Political asylum has been granted to Vietnamese, Hmong , Africans, Iranians, Jews, etc from former Soviet Union, Serbs, Iraquis, others
When I was in DC, there were tons of them. I taught English to them. They claimed asylum.
Ever been to Adams Morgan neighborhood there? Good Ethiopian restaurants, too.
No doubt!!!!!dajo9 said:
I'm old enough to remember when porous borders was a conservative position (Reagan Republican) so that business could exploit the labor
It's quite useful, actually.
But not how things should be run.
GOP/Trump wants to create a special work visa? No rights, but we get the right to exploit you still.
So, there would be an approval method for who gets those passes.sp4149 said:
A well thought out guest worker program is badly needed. WE used to have one but Dixiecrats back in the sixties bullied the Democratic party into ending it. The reasons were mainly Eugenics, similar to what was proposed recently by AG Sessions, to ban the entry into the USA by immigrants who were not Northern European, aka Catholic or Hispanic. Nixon convinced the Dixiecrats to join the Republican party and recently they have run the country. One of the major benefits of a guest worker program is that the workers are free to leave and return later. They live in the open without fear of deportation or having to make an illegal entry to return to work.
It would be easier to manage guest workers than trying to prevent border crossings by willing workers.
But then others would still come, cause living in the shadows is still better than in poverty in Central America.
This would create 3 classes of workers:
1. Americans
2. Guest pass holders
3. Illegals
And employers are still going to hire illegals even if there are guest workers available, because they did it in the 80's when Reagan tried to go after employers who hired people without papers.
This needs a huge debate. Trump's solution was to shout over and over: "wall". Not very sophisticated solution.
Put 10 teams of smart problem solvers into separate rooms for 3 months and come back and report your findings. Whoever comes up with the most bullet proof plan wins.
Jerry wanted to take a burnt 2x4 and whack it across Trump's face, but said in an interview later that (my paraphrasing) he just wanted to secure as much federal funds for the state as possible, and knew showing trump up would not be helpful to that end.B.A. Bearacus said:
Gavin shoulda done it, though!
It can't happen soon enough.Another Bear said:
In any case, methinks the other shoe has dropped. Manafort gave the Russkie election data. Trump Jr is going to be indicted and Mueller is warm up the hold cell.
This is the solution we are praying for.
Kick them out of office!!
Do you think rosenstein departing has anything to with Mueller timing?
You have blank posts often.
Do you say saucy things and then think twice?
Or are you being mod'ed?
Do you say saucy things and then think twice?
Or are you being mod'ed?
Interesting thought, but no.sycasey said:I'm not a hard-liner about this (I can see arguments for why you might need strong border security), but if I had to choose between the two extremes -- completely open border vs. completely closed -- then I most definitely choose the former.Anarchistbear said:
It's less porous than you think. The numbers of "classic" illegals- mostly singles- who crossed from Mexico seeking work has plummeted.going from 1.5 million in year 2000 to about 400.000 in 2018. Asylum seekers - mostly families not from Mexico- have gone from less than 10,000 to 120,000 per year in the same period. Currently there is a backlog of more than 750,000 people waiting for their cases to be heard making it by far the biggest burden on the system
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/border-asylum-claims/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c5fab9fa2322
http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/25-general-chapman's-last-stand
https://medium.com/s/story/the-unintended-cruelty-of-americas-immigration-policies-25c008b58d3e
Trying to restrict and control all human migration into your borders is a fool's errand. It doesn't have the effect you want. You can't actually keep everyone out; people will move where they need to for safety and/or money. Past a certain point (and IMO the United States is certainly past that point now), building a "wall" to immigrants doesn't help keep people OUT, it just helps keep them IN. Meaning, they won't just come in for a little while to make money and then go back when conditions are better in their home countries, they'll plant themselves here and send for their families. That's certainly what's happened since the U.S. government started cracking down on "illegal immigration" back in the 70s, and now we're left with the mess of DACA and kids in cages and Trump shutting down the government because he wants a literal wall.
Maybe we should start going the other way? Just let people in if they're not dangerous? Continued escalation doesn't seem to solve anything.
The whole world wants to come here, and to the other wealthy nations.
In 2019, there is probably at least one woman in your phone contacts who has had botox. I would think that Pelosi has had a little help in enhancing her natural beauty.concordtom said:
I sure as hell hope my wife looks like that at 78.
And some of you are wishing your wives looked like that NOW!
concordtom said:Interesting thought, but no.sycasey said:I'm not a hard-liner about this (I can see arguments for why you might need strong border security), but if I had to choose between the two extremes -- completely open border vs. completely closed -- then I most definitely choose the former.Anarchistbear said:
It's less porous than you think. The numbers of "classic" illegals- mostly singles- who crossed from Mexico seeking work has plummeted.going from 1.5 million in year 2000 to about 400.000 in 2018. Asylum seekers - mostly families not from Mexico- have gone from less than 10,000 to 120,000 per year in the same period. Currently there is a backlog of more than 750,000 people waiting for their cases to be heard making it by far the biggest burden on the system
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/border-asylum-claims/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c5fab9fa2322
http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/25-general-chapman's-last-stand
https://medium.com/s/story/the-unintended-cruelty-of-americas-immigration-policies-25c008b58d3e
Trying to restrict and control all human migration into your borders is a fool's errand. It doesn't have the effect you want. You can't actually keep everyone out; people will move where they need to for safety and/or money. Past a certain point (and IMO the United States is certainly past that point now), building a "wall" to immigrants doesn't help keep people OUT, it just helps keep them IN. Meaning, they won't just come in for a little while to make money and then go back when conditions are better in their home countries, they'll plant themselves here and send for their families. That's certainly what's happened since the U.S. government started cracking down on "illegal immigration" back in the 70s, and now we're left with the mess of DACA and kids in cages and Trump shutting down the government because he wants a literal wall.
Maybe we should start going the other way? Just let people in if they're not dangerous? Continued escalation doesn't seem to solve anything.
The whole world wants to come here, and to the other wealthy nations.
If you haven't, I'd encourage you to listen to the whole Gladwell podcast linked in my post. Might give you some food for thought.
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