Trump's big National Emergency speech on Tuesday

13,552 Views | 167 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by dajo9
Unit2Sucks
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Someone should run for president on an "ignore the border not our country" platform. Maybe too radical to work.
dajo9
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Unit2Sucks said:

As long as we are playing the "how many people are like me game", how many people are like me and can't get that excited about immigration? For me it's just not a top issue facing our country.

It's not shy I'm for open borders, it's just thst I don't think the border should be a priority. For example, a few years ago the SF board of supes outlawed cat declawing. It's not that I'm pro cat declawing but don't we have other things for the city to focus on?

The reason Trump focuses so much attention on the border is because he can get people whipped up about a "simple" issue and frankly because he isn't knowledgeable or smart enough to talk about more complex and meaningful issues.

The border is less of a problem now than it was a decade ago and it wasn't one of our biggest problems back then. It's a distraction and a dog whistle and not one that we have to accept.




Agreed. Immigration is not a huge issue for the country but there is s small group on both sides for which it is the #1 issue.
sp4149
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sycasey said:

Another Bear said:

Soon the U.S. is going to run into a NOT enough immigrants problem. It's already happening. Since the get-go the U.S. had depended on immigration as a growth engine. Recently it's been the brain drain from Asia and ag workers from Mexico but now opportunities in their home countries are on a level playing field and they don't have to leave home. In 50-80 years, a generation or two...the U.S. is going to open its borders because there will be an economic need.


This is correct. Birth rates in this country are not keeping up. We're going to need more immigrants soon.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/health/us-fertility-rate-replacement-cdc-study/index.html

I also agree that there is no real "crisis" at the border except what the Trump Administration has created itself.

The American workers have been more affected by off-shore outsourcing than immigration. The effects of outsourcing continue to be ignored by their GOP proponents, the media and public at large. A lot of attention has been paid to out of work Federal workers, most of them are survivors of outsourcing. In many places 80-90% of the Federal work force has been outsourced and most of these workers are not only also going without paychecks and they will not get backpay from Congress. The totals bandied about of 4 million unpaid contractor workers, seem reasonable, maybe a bit low. The actual number of the outsourced jobs is not a typical statistic and Government contracts do not identify 'outsourced' positions after the initial contract.

Although I'm a retired Federal worker who doesn't 'trust' The Grump, we always maintained a three month net pay savings to weather these shutdowns after we bought out first house. I didn't have that kind of cushion as a new employee for the probationary position. Supposedly paid leave, like annual or vacation, is earned and the funds are set aside separate from appropriations. Furloughed employees and employees working without pay should be able to take annual or sick leave and get paid for the leave used. Now many employees may not want to waste their leave just to get some cash now; if they use their leave Congress typically will not restore the used leave. Those TSA employees calling in sick should get paid for all the hours of sick leave they take. Supposedly after three days they are supposed to have a doctor's statement, but not all supervisor's will require that documentation. I see the use of sick leaver not as a protest but a way to get some pay right now while the stalemate continues. However the ones who will suffer the most are the millions working for federal contractors without the employee protections they had when their jobs were Federal positions.
concordtom
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Hey, maybe trump is on to something!
He realizes that the economy is overheating and going to have inflation due to his stimulative tax cuts without equal decrease in expenditures (aka deficit spending).
So, to slow the economy down, he is jolting the federal contractors their regular pay, just like he used to do with his own construction crews.

How many are going vote for him, though? See ya, Trump!
concordtom
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blungld said:

Agree the wall is a symbol (and an unAmerican one at that) not a solution. I agree with you, but I also want efficient, just, and empathetic path to asylum and citizenship along with border security. I don't want one without the other.
Controlled inflow and "efficient, just, and empathetic path to asylum and citizenship" go hand in hand, brother!
We align, just need to quibble about what level of inflow, and I have NO idea about that.
concordtom
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Unit2Sucks said:

.... a few years ago the SF board of supes outlawed cat declawing. It's not that I'm pro cat declawing but don't we have other things for the city to focus on?

LOL

Quote:


The reason Trump focuses so much attention on the border is ... frankly because he isn't knowledgeable or smart enough to talk about more complex and meaningful issues.


So true!


Quote:


The border is less of a problem now than it was a decade ago and it wasn't one of our biggest problems back then. It's a distraction and a dog whistle and not one that we have to accept.


Agree. Particularly since he ignores wall-related issues such as:

Dreamers
Environmental aspects of wall, wildlife
Taking of indian and private land to build.
Ruining property owners access to rio grande river.
Leaving some property owners between the wall and the border

And I'm probably leaving out ten more.

concordtom
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Anarchistbear said:

Disagree,this is the same kind of reactionary xenophobia that has always fueled the American experiment- from the Know Nothing Party to excluding Jews persecuted by Nazis, to California passing the draconian immigration proposition 187 by 59% yeas. Now the CA economy would collapse without immigrants. What changes this is time and association. Like gays there is now one in every family. It's no wonder that counties that voted for Trump have little immigrant population.

We already have walls about 700 miles of them. The amount of money we have spent on increased security and additional border patrol agents is insane- 500% increase in border agents in the last 25 years.

Declare victory already

Not sure what your stance is, actually.
Open borders?
concordtom
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blungld said:

It's such a shame because all this time and energy and money could be put into infrastructure and education and green-technology, all things to improve our daily lives and move us forward
Totally.
Zippo for ideas.
He never had much of a clue, except how to promote himself.
Another Bear
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sycasey said:

Another Bear said:

Soon the U.S. is going to run into a NOT enough immigrants problem. It's already happening. Since the get-go the U.S. had depended on immigration as a growth engine. Recently it's been the brain drain from Asia and ag workers from Mexico but now opportunities in their home countries are on a level playing field and they don't have to leave home. In 50-80 years, a generation or two...the U.S. is going to open its borders because there will be an economic need.


This is correct. Birth rates in this country are not keeping up. We're going to need more immigrants soon.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/10/health/us-fertility-rate-replacement-cdc-study/index.html

I also agree that there is no real "crisis" at the border except what the Trump Administration has created itself.
Japan and other industrial countries are now experiencing the low birth rate/labor shortage deal. Not only is there no crisis but anti-immigrant hate has been happening in the U.S. since the birth of the nation. Every immigrant group gets hate and told they're stealing jobs but it's usually myth and created by those in power to divide groups. Every immigrant group has gone through this, although some immigrant groups come with the extra hate baggage of race or religion.

Hating immigrants is really the same as Southern elites dividing African American and poor whites as economic and cultural control. If you're hating on others you tend not to question the powers that be. You direct the rage at another party and the elites don't get questioned. One can argue that the H1B visa that many tech firms use is similar...leverage foreign workers against domestic workers.

Trump is playing the same canard but perhaps at a more visceral level that his base will understand...government shut down for a wall that's symbolic.
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Another Bear
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From Vox:
Quote:

Trump tried to bypass Nancy Pelosi and negotiate with members of her caucus. None of them showed up.

Trump doesn't understand how to negotiate with House Democrats.

President Donald Trump tried a new strategy to get his border wall by going around House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Politico reported. He failed spectacularly.

On Tuesday, Trump invited moderate House Democrats to join him at the White House for lunch to talk about his wall and the shutdown. He used a similar strategy when Paul Ryan controlled the House, going around the speaker to negotiate with the far-right Freedom Caucus. But unlike Republicans, no Democrats attended the lunch meeting, according to White House press secretary Sarah Sanders.

The embarrassing episode shows two things: Democrats are united on shutdown politics and the president is underestimating Pelosi's hold on her caucus.
Mean while polls are showing the public is blaming Trump.
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B.A. Bearacus
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Democrats knew that McDonald's and Pizza Hut would be on the menu.
Anarchistbear
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If there was Taco Bell the Dems would have showed up.
B.A. Bearacus
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sp4149
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concordtom said:

Hey, maybe trump is on to something!
He realizes that the economy is overheating and going to have inflation due to his stimulative tax cuts without equal decrease in expenditures (aka deficit spending).
So, to slow the economy down, he is jolting the federal contractors their regular pay, just like he used to do with his own construction crews.

How many are going vote for him, though? See ya, Trump!
You need to make a clear distinction between Federal Contractors and Contractor's employees.
At the start of the year the Contracting Officer has to declare in writing that funds are available to pay the Contractor for the entire year (normally paid monthly). If the Contractor's services are to be reduced in scope, this reduction is negotiated and for every dollar reduction in the Contract the Government typically has to pay the Contractor $0.50 in damages and expenses for altering the contract. Pragmatically, if you want to save $1 million in the contract cost, you have to reduce the contract scope by $2 million. AFAIK this is not being done so the Federal contractors will still get paid in full even when their employees have been locked out by the shutdown.

However the Contractors do not have to pay their hourly workers when they are not working. Congress lacks the authority to pay the Contractor employees directly; that would be double billing. Many, if not most of these Contractor employees are ex-Government employees or performing work that had been outsourced. They lost their right to be paid when their jobs were outsourced. After a month they may lose their health insurance. Many sources have cited the number of locked out Contractor employees at 4 million. On the West Coast contractors billed the government about $50 an hour for labor, highly skilled position were more than double that cost. The amount of lost wages for Contractor employees, using the low $50 per hour cost to the Government, would be $1.6 BILLION per day.

That is $1.6 Billion, per day, that the Federal Contractors are allowed to keep without paying their employees. After 25 days $40 billion is now lost by Contractor employees (And kept by the Federal Contractors). If Trump gets to build his wall, it will be paid by outsourced employees working for Federal Contractors. And a helluva profit for Federal Contractors.
concordtom
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Anarchistbear said:



If there was Taco Bell the Dems would have showed up.
Careful, the racism police will point fingers at you for making a joke.
concordtom
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sp4149 said:

concordtom said:

Hey, maybe trump is on to something!
He realizes that the economy is overheating and going to have inflation due to his stimulative tax cuts without equal decrease in expenditures (aka deficit spending).
So, to slow the economy down, he is jolting the federal contractors their regular pay, just like he used to do with his own construction crews.

How many are going vote for him, though? See ya, Trump!
You need to make a clear distinction between Federal Contractors and Contractor's employees.
At the start of the year the Contracting Officer has to declare in writing that funds are available to pay the Contractor for the entire year (normally paid monthly). If the Contractor's services are to be reduced in scope, this reduction is negotiated and for every dollar reduction in the Contract the Government typically has to pay the Contractor $0.50 in damages and expenses for altering the contract. Pragmatically, if you want to save $1 million in the contract cost, you have to reduce the contract scope by $2 million. AFAIK this is not being done so the Federal contractors will still get paid in full even when their employees have been locked out by the shutdown.

However the Contractors do not have to pay their hourly workers when they are not working. Congress lacks the authority to pay the Contractor employees directly; that would be double billing. Many, if not most of these Contractor employees are ex-Government employees or performing work that had been outsourced. They lost their right to be paid when their jobs were outsourced. After a month they may lose their health insurance. Many sources have cited the number of locked out Contractor employees at 4 million. On the West Coast contractors billed the government about $50 an hour for labor, highly skilled position were more than double that cost. The amount of lost wages for Contractor employees, using the low $50 per hour cost to the Government, would be $1.6 BILLION per day.

That is $1.6 Billion, per day, that the Federal Contractors are allowed to keep without paying their employees. After 25 days $40 billion is now lost by Contractor employees (And kept by the Federal Contractors). If Trump gets to build his wall, it will be paid by outsourced employees working for Federal Contractors. And a helluva profit for Federal Contractors.
Thank you. I read a prior post about this situation (maybe yours) and I appreciate your adding it up again here. Please send to CNN so they can run and rerun a piece on it.
It's a big deal.
I assume trump is somehow profiting off this. Kickback from someone who has contracts. Splitting to profits on unpaid wages. Evil people.
concordtom
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B.A. Bearacus said:


Outstanding move, Madam Speaker!

What's to stop Trump from overtaking "her" chamber?
Who controls the police forces involved? Can he simply storm the chamber and delivery his speech with zero Dems present? I could see a world where that happens. GOP throwing a party inside the lower chamber. Would that go to the Supreme Court immediately?

Or perhaps McConnell will simply invite Trump to delivery the speech inside the Senate. That would seem a more likely response. Wow. This is getting explosive fast.
Another Bear
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Yeah apparently Trump has no idea who he's dealing with, a mom who doesn't take nonsense from a petulant child and yet she doesn't raise her voice or signal anything besides normal business. Very shrewd move by the Speaker of the House...take away his TV appearance is like kicking him in the nuts, with a sledge hammer. Trump must be fuming because he was going to use the State of the Union as a bully pulpit for his wall.
Peanut Gallery Consultant
concordtom
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On second thought, trump may very well submit to congress via letter, then deliver the speech at White House with invited GOP people to cheer him on.
How many can fit in its largest room?
Or is there a large room at the old executive office bldg, rented to trump (I hate that deal!!)?
concordtom
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Another Bear said:

Yeah apparently Trump has no idea who he's dealing with, a mom who doesn't take nonsense from a petulant child and yet she doesn't raise her voice or signal anything besides normal business. Very shrewd move by the Speaker of the House...take away his TV appearance is like kicking him in the nuts, with a sledge hammer. Trump must be fuming because he was going to use the State of the Union as a bully pulpit for his wall.
First it was Ryan, next im hoping McConnell is gone after 2020 election!

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/15/mitch-mcconnell-government-shutdown-reelection/
B.A. Bearacus
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Well, this went super viral. I like it. Those not familiar with her, she's a huge star on the music scene.


Yogi58
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B.A. Bearacus said:

Well, this went super viral. I like it. Those not familiar with her, she's a huge star on the music scene.



Cutting edge political analysis. Not exactly the McLaughlin Group.
B.A. Bearacus
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Sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it.
dajo9
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Yogi Bear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Well, this went super viral. I like it. Those not familiar with her, she's a huge star on the music scene.



Cutting edge political analysis. Not exactly the McLaughlin Group.
Better than the McLaughlin Group. His guests ranged from weak-willed or Blue Dog Democrats to strong Republicans. You couldn't be a guest from the left if you weren't willing to be obsequious. Only exception was Lawrence O'Donnell. But O'Donnell stopped being on his show - I always thought it was for being too good an advocate of Democratic positions.
sycasey
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Yogi Bear said:

B.A. Bearacus said:

Well, this went super viral. I like it. Those not familiar with her, she's a huge star on the music scene.



Cutting edge political analysis. Not exactly the McLaughlin Group.
I don't think the McLaughlin Group would work well on Twitter.
concordtom
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He would have been able to fit right in.
B.A. Bearacus
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B.A. Bearacus said:


Fact: no one on BI can roll off the part of the sentence that follows "so your grandma can check her blood pressure and..." faster than Cardi B. can. Kelly09, Osk003, and Okaydo, give it a try. It's at the 0:24 mark.
okaydo
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dajo9
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What an embarrassing time for our country

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