Trump and Manafort

blungld
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There are so many parts to the crimes committed by this president and his administration that it creates a fog of normalizing clear acts of conspiracy, complete dereliction of duty, incompetence, and betrayal of country. It all starts to bleed together into something holistic that seems too big to prosecute, too big to be true, too big to categorize into small words like collusion, too open and plain too be so obviously illegal at such a scale by the actual president of our country, or too big to be anything other than a political deep state coup (by those who think this way).

But take any one detail or thread, and you get great clarity on the magnitude of the conspiracy and gravity of what has transpired and is being ignored and excused by so many tribal loyalists. Look at Trump and Manafort for example:

Trump minimizes the relationship and role in the campaign though he knew him since the 80s and he was the campaign manager (he owns a friggin condo in Trump Tower for goodness sake). Why is he hiding his relationship?

Trump appointed him campaign manager with knowledge of his Russian ties so that means he was hired either because of these ties or despite these ties. So is Trump already in act of collusion with the hire or just a terrible leader/judge of character?

Manafort is reaching out to Russian oligarchs (deal making regarding personal debts, help to elect Trump, and lifting of sanctions) during and AFTER he is a part of the campaign. He reports directly to Trump and there are reports that they spoke and coordinated dozens of times a day. Is there any chance in the universe that a candidate's campaign manager is freelancing negotiations with Russia and their oligarchs/intelligence community in exchange for help with election and US policy positions and the candidate does not know and has not agreed? That is simply impossible and more impossible given Trump's small organization that is run like a tight mafia family where he controls and decides everything.

Trump campaign (as directed by Manafort) makes an out of the blue and incomprehensible change to GOP platform to be pro-Russian and lessen sanctions. There is simply no plausible explanation for this mysterious platform change and the weird way it went down other than some time of capitulation or secret deal with oligarchs/Putin.

Trump fires Manafort and now retroactively seems to want to position it as some sort of vague act of getting rid of questionable behavior/connections. So he tries to claim no knowledge, but also knowledge that required his action to fire. At the time, journalists were starting to reveal Manafort's background and the spin was that this was a distraction. So again, that means Trump was aware of Manafort's background and didn't want it made public. If everything is up and up, why hide it?

If Trump wants to claim that he cleaned house and got rid of dirty Manafort, then that means that for all these years he has known about illegal activity in his own campaign, and contact between his campaign and Russia while publicly denying any such contact, taking no steps to tell Americans about the threat and protect us, and all while he has worked to obstruct and hinder the investigation into Russian meddling and at the same time align himself with Russian interests and against American allies and interests. An American president not concerned with an attack on our government, that benefitted him, that he does so far as to say he doesn't think it happened though he knows about his staff's connections to Russia? Please.

And now Trump waves the possibility of a pardon, to a man he alleges he barely knows, who committed crimes against the country and whose verdict was overwhelmingly guilty and unquestioned and for whom there has been no new evidence of innocence, for what reason exactly? The president is offering bribes right in front of our faces and we do nothing about this?

Are any one of these things the acts of an innocent man? Is there any plausible lawful explanation?

Just the few salient details of Trump and Manafort, those that have been made public to date, are grounds for not only impeachment, but arrests at every level of government and the media. And yet we are stuck in Trump's intentional distractions of the small conversations of this tweet or that. The shutdown and the wall are obstruction of justice writ large, manufactured debate and crisis to draw attention away from what we should really be doing, indicting this entire illegal cabal and defending the nation, our sovereignty, and our principles. The onslaught of the Trump fog has dulled our outrage and protracted our required response. And the MAGA hat-wearers, and posters on these boards even, seem absolutely okay with this level of corruption and the dishonesty in this WH and the conservative media. I can't comprehend being an American and arriving at that level of "loyalty" or denial.
oski003
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Maybe give him 5 billion for the wall and then move on from this "obstruction" to focus on the other things you are discussing?
blungld
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oski003 said:

Maybe give him 5 billion for the wall and then move on from this "obstruction" to focus on the other things you are discussing?
No because it is not a priority, not wanted by most Americans, and only wanted by this president as a feather in his cap to protect him politically. It has NOTHING to do with national security and everything to do with appeasing an immoral and unlawfully elected president and providing cover for his other crimes.

Just open the government...and then have an honest debate about the best solution to the "humanitarian crisis" (preferably with another president).

Trump cares so deeply about others when he chants Build a Wall. All loving caring people engage in hostile chants. And what humanitarian crisis has NOT been solved by barriers, arrests, and lack of empathy?
oski003
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I know this sounds insensitive, but I bet a higher percentage of Americans support building a wall, versus, say giving 3 billion per year in foreign aid to Gaza.

Also, Federal Expenditures in 2018 were 4.1 trillion.
golden sloth
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oski003 said:

Maybe give him 5 billion for the wall and then move on from this "obstruction" to focus on the other things you are discussing?
The people spoke when the Senate unanimously approved a funding bill (which is enough votes to overturn a veto by the way). Trump chose to ignore this vote and the congress' approved bill to shutdown the government. Trump and Trump alone shutdown this government because he refused to sign unanimously approved funding bills.

Furthermore, if you believe Trump wants a wall you are naive and being manipulated. He doesn't. If he wanted a wall he would have made a deal to get a wall. Dems were perfectly willing to concede 25 billion to his wall in exchange for a pathway to citizenship for dreamers. Trump refused that as well. Trump wants to talk about the wall because it is a distraction (from all his other stuff) and it makes people angry. When people get angry the brain releases chemicals which makes it hard to utilize logic, in essence keeping the public dumb.

But most of all, let me reiterate this, TRUMP DOES NOT WANT A WALL!
oski003
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golden sloth said:

oski003 said:

Maybe give him 5 billion for the wall and then move on from this "obstruction" to focus on the other things you are discussing?
The people spoke when the Senate unanimously approved a funding bill (which is enough votes to overturn a veto by the way). Trump chose to ignore this vote and the congress' approved bill to shutdown the government. Trump and Trump alone shutdown this government because he refused to sign unanimously approved funding bills.

Furthermore, if you believe Trump wants a wall you are naive and being manipulated. He doesn't. If he wanted a wall he would have made a deal to get a wall. Dems were perfectly willing to concede 25 billion to his wall in exchange for a pathway to citizenship for dreamers. Trump refused that as well. Trump wants to talk about the wall because it is a distraction (from all his other stuff) and it makes people angry. When people get angry the brain releases chemicals which makes it hard to utilize logic, in essence keeping the public dumb.

But most of all, let me reiterate this, TRUMP DOES NOT WANT A WALL!


Since the funding bill was unanimously approved (your words) , congress should override the veto. That's how the government works.
Unit2Sucks
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If the Republicans actually cared about building a wall they would have included it in their budget back in the fall.

And if Trump really cared about border security, he would use the money that was allocated previously to secure the border. But he hasn't. He has no plan. He just has a potemkin village. He has been lying about wanting to build a wall for so long he can't even remember what he's fighting for. He spend $20M to build prototypes that don't meet anyone's reasonable requirements and now he's saying that US Steel will design the wall, as if that made any sense and without actually having spoken to them.

What this really stems from is the fact that the republicans got caught with their pants down voting for someone who spent his whole life lying to people in private on the assumption that they couldn't fact check him. Now he's doing it in public and spending all his time trying to overcome the fact that people are fact checking and that he can't bluster or truthful hyperbole his way to success.

He has built his entire career on bilking suckers and finally found a group of people whose pride prevents them from admitting they are suckers so they will stick with him until the bitter end. And make no mistake, there will be a bitter end.
blungld
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oski003 said:

I know this sounds insensitive, but I bet a higher percentage of Americans support building a wall, versus, say giving 3 billion per year in foreign aid to Gaza.

Also, Federal Expenditures in 2018 were 4.1 trillion.
All polls show that the wall is a dud and not wanted by the American public. It's not even close. This wall is only for a very narrow base so they will stay loyal when the legal doo doo hits the fan with the president. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WALL OR NATIONAL SECURITY.

The fact that he is creating a national security distraction to divert from his crimes and reporting like Manafort is obstruction of justice. He is actually shutting down our government to protect himself, not those children at the border he says he cares about. The 5.7 billion is for him only.

By the way, why the heck are American citizens paying for his legal defense when he betrayed us?
Cal88
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blungld said:

oski003 said:

I know this sounds insensitive, but I bet a higher percentage of Americans support building a wall, versus, say giving 3 billion per year in foreign aid to Gaza.

Also, Federal Expenditures in 2018 were 4.1 trillion.
All polls show that the wall is a dud and not wanted by the American public. It's not even close. This wall is only for a very narrow base so they will stay loyal when the legal doo doo hits the fan with the president. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WALL OR NATIONAL SECURITY.

The fact that he is creating a national security distraction to divert from his crimes and reporting like Manafort is obstruction of justice. He is actually shutting down our government to protect himself, not those children at the border he says he cares about. The 5.7 billion is for him only.

By the way, why the heck are American citizens paying for his legal defense when he betrayed us?
Poll: 79 Percent Of Americans Think Border Is In 'Crisis' Or Is A 'Problem'


Amber Athey | White House Correspondent

A vast majority of American voters believe that the United States is facing a "crisis" or a "problem" on the southern border, according to a new poll by Politico and Morning Consult.




https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/09/politico-poll-border-crisis-problem-majority-americans-agree/
golden sloth
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oski003 said:

golden sloth said:

oski003 said:

Maybe give him 5 billion for the wall and then move on from this "obstruction" to focus on the other things you are discussing?
The people spoke when the Senate unanimously approved a funding bill (which is enough votes to overturn a veto by the way). Trump chose to ignore this vote and the congress' approved bill to shutdown the government. Trump and Trump alone shutdown this government because he refused to sign unanimously approved funding bills.

Furthermore, if you believe Trump wants a wall you are naive and being manipulated. He doesn't. If he wanted a wall he would have made a deal to get a wall. Dems were perfectly willing to concede 25 billion to his wall in exchange for a pathway to citizenship for dreamers. Trump refused that as well. Trump wants to talk about the wall because it is a distraction (from all his other stuff) and it makes people angry. When people get angry the brain releases chemicals which makes it hard to utilize logic, in essence keeping the public dumb.

But most of all, let me reiterate this, TRUMP DOES NOT WANT A WALL!


Since the funding bill was unanimously approved (your words) , congress should override the veto. That's how the government works.
You know what, you are actually right, and my statement above is incorrect. This is a Trump and McConnell shut down, as McConnell refuses to use the Senate's power to override a veto even though the legislation previously passed 100 - 0. They are both to blame for shutting down the government.
golden sloth
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Cal88 said:

blungld said:

oski003 said:

I know this sounds insensitive, but I bet a higher percentage of Americans support building a wall, versus, say giving 3 billion per year in foreign aid to Gaza.

Also, Federal Expenditures in 2018 were 4.1 trillion.
All polls show that the wall is a dud and not wanted by the American public. It's not even close. This wall is only for a very narrow base so they will stay loyal when the legal doo doo hits the fan with the president. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WALL OR NATIONAL SECURITY.

The fact that he is creating a national security distraction to divert from his crimes and reporting like Manafort is obstruction of justice. He is actually shutting down our government to protect himself, not those children at the border he says he cares about. The 5.7 billion is for him only.

By the way, why the heck are American citizens paying for his legal defense when he betrayed us?
Poll: 79 Percent Of Americans Think Border Is In 'Crisis' Or Is A 'Problem'


Amber Athey | White House Correspondent

A vast majority of American voters believe that the United States is facing a "crisis" or a "problem" on the southern border, according to a new poll by Politico and Morning Consult.




https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/09/politico-poll-border-crisis-problem-majority-americans-agree/

Well, the Politico article the Daily Caller is using as source material explicitly states:


Quote:

But support from Republicans belies the president's overall standing in the fight. Trump's overall approval rating in the poll (43 percent), support for a border wall (44 percent) and the percentage of voters who say there is a crisis at the southern border (42 percent) are all in the low 40s. Among independent voters, Trump's approval rating is 38 percent, 37 percent believe there is a crisis at the southern border and 37 percent support the construction of a border wall.
So a minority of Americans support the border wall (44%). Further per the article and poll below, 66% of Americans either think the wall is unnecessary or that there are better ways to secure the border:


Quote:

Thirty-four percent said a border wall was "the best path for making America safer at its borders," while 31 percent said it was "totally unnecessary and not worth the expense."

Thirty-five percent of respondents said they believed that Americans need border security, but there are "better options" for securing the border.
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/423709-poll-shows-americans-are-split-on-feelings-toward-border-wall
concordtom
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I don't care about the Mueller report. His defective and criminal personality by itself is a high crime.
Get rid of him.
Anarchistbear
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concordtom said:

I don't care about the Mueller report. His defective and criminal personality by itself is a high crime.
Get rid of him.


You're being too hard on Mueller
concordtom
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Anarchistbear said:

concordtom said:

I don't care about the Mueller report. His defective and criminal personality by itself is a high crime.
Get rid of him.


You're being too hard on Mueller
Ha. Good catch.

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