I'm not, but why are you?bearister said:
Why so angry?
Ahmaud Arbery
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433 Replies |
Last: 2 yr ago by concordtom
I'm sorry that you are having so much trouble discussing this topic, I've never said that considering individual racism is a waste of time, and I think you are smart enough not to have misunderstood.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:I continue to not agree that racism is "not limited to any race" if by that you mean to say that racism against white people is a significant problem.calbear93 said:I think we complicate or politicize things that are very simple. We see that even with COVID-19.Unit2Sucks said:I read the beginning of the thread again and agree assumptions were made that the murderers were conservative racists. Obviously you are correct that there are racists on both sides of the aisle, and if this person is indeed a liberal (which I have no reason to doubt, even though the original reporting of her donations is unverified and possibly spurious) then it would further validate that racism is not just a problem on the right.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:
I haven't seen all the back and forth because I have a few of the usual suspects on ignore, but how is this person exhibiting racist behavior a gotcha for the left?
I don't get it - are you guys saying that no one is racist if this is racist? Or that republicans can be racist now because they caught a democrat red-handed? How is this validation of racism denier views?
Seems like this is just one more data point about the challenges that people of color face in this country that white people don't. There are obviously people with racist views all over society and across all political parties.
I think it may be helpful if you actually read the first page of this thread and how this was painted by the typical tribalist as an example of how racist the conservatives are. I think you were spot on as to why you were confused.Unit2Sucks said:
There are *gasp* people who proclaim all sorts of views that are inconsistent with how they behave. Hypocrisy doesn't invalidate a view, particularly when the view is that a behavior exhibited by the hypocrit is being denied by other people. Trump filling the swamp with cronies doesn't invalidate his expressed viewpoint that DC was filled with cronies. Of course it was and the fact that t's even worse now under him doesn't make his point any less true, it just means that he's every bit as guilty (or perhaps more so because he recognizes how bad it is).
And, for what it's worth, you could assume this person is a liberal (white, college-educated female in NYC is quite likely to be a democrat), but if we are trying to be accurate, we have no reason to believe that all of the donations are properly attributed given how common this person's name is. She could be apolitical, liberal or conservative, we really have no idea. All we know is that she weaponized this birder's race against him.
No doubt people are hypocrites. And I honestly don't think people are invalidating any view here other than the original view by the same idiots that - gee, if someone is racist, that person must be a conservative (again view some of the stupid posts on the first page).
However, if Trump were to lecture you about how it is wrong to call people names, how one should not play the victim card or how one should respect the press and rule of law, you telling him to shut the **** up does not mean those views are wrong. You just don't want to be lectured to by someone you thing does not live out those values. Why is that so surprising?
I don't recall whether you've said it, but often (white) people complain that progressives think everyone is racist. This is just another example of how pervasive racism is in our culture. I think some conservatives are using this incident to dunk on progressives and say something to the effect of "ha! you guys are racist too" but like I've said a few times already - that's just proving our point. Racism is far too prevalent and can't be ignored.
The problem I have is that something as simple as not treating others differently based on the person's race or the color of their skin is made so complicated that the truth becomes buried in their own personal agenda. Evil of racism does not need qualification, special treatment or exemptions.
As you mention, the problem of racism is not limited to any political party, race, or age. It is always easier for many here to think someone else has the problem and, as such, they don't need to look into their own biases. If we admit that it is human nature to try to feel superior to others for invalid reasons, we can start changing our own behaviors instead of thinking the solution to something like racism can be solved by pointing the fingers at others. I admit that I have to fight my own biases, and I do try to remind myself of the universal truth that nothing predetermines our character. I think if we had started off this discussion with some self-reflection instead of the typical idiots jumping to "conservatives" are evil comments, we could have had a meaningful discussion. But it always comes down to conservative vs liberals here because most of us here have no genuine substance to be able to identify ourselves any other way.
But more importantly, I also don't agree that you or me taking efforts to ensure that we personally fight our own biases is a scalable solution or can meaningfully address the problem our country is facing. Racism is pervasive in our society and throughout our institutions. To mix two incredibly polarizing subjects, addressing racism through individual action is like me trying to ask anti-abortion activists to look within themselves and stop having abortions. Is it true that anti-abortion people should start by not themselves having abortions? Sure. Would that do much to solve the problem they believe exists? Not really. Individual action is a nice starting points for a great many things, but it just isn't anywhere close to sufficient to address some of the larger problems facing our society.
Sorry, must have missed the update to the definition of racism. So, racism exists not only when there is racism plus power but also when Unit2 seems that to be a problem.
Also, if you think considering individual racism is a waste of time, why worry about racism in any one state or country. That is not scalable in a global sense much less in a universe senses. Anything that doesn't address racism and how to solve it in the universe is a waste of time like this thread. And don't waste my time talking about racism when we should be talking about biases against species.
Must be nice to avoid all personal accountability and think promoting a viewpoint that moves no one is more effective. Working great so far in this country.
I clearly said that we as individuals cannot address racism in our country by just not being racist. This really isn't a difficult concept. Believe it or not, there are a lot of racist people in the United States who aren't reading this thread and aren't going to voluntarily choose to not be racist.
It's like Melania Trump pretending she has eliminated online bullying just because she herself hasn't bullied anyone but in reality she hasn't even reduced her husband's bullying one iota.
You seem to enjoy employing reductio ad absurdum but, unsurprisingly, it's not persuasive.
calbear93 said:I'm not, but why are you?bearister said:
Why so angry?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
I don't think you truly understand what you are writing. You think rules can eliminate racism when individuals are still racist? How are you going to change anyone else from being racist? I'm waiting. You think the reason we have racism is because we don't have enough laws? What is it that you are proposing if personal accountability is not the only solution?Unit2Sucks said:I'm sorry that you are having so much trouble discussing this topic, I've never said that considering individual racism is a waste of time, and I think you are smart enough not to have misunderstood.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:I continue to not agree that racism is "not limited to any race" if by that you mean to say that racism against white people is a significant problem.calbear93 said:I think we complicate or politicize things that are very simple. We see that even with COVID-19.Unit2Sucks said:I read the beginning of the thread again and agree assumptions were made that the murderers were conservative racists. Obviously you are correct that there are racists on both sides of the aisle, and if this person is indeed a liberal (which I have no reason to doubt, even though the original reporting of her donations is unverified and possibly spurious) then it would further validate that racism is not just a problem on the right.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:
I haven't seen all the back and forth because I have a few of the usual suspects on ignore, but how is this person exhibiting racist behavior a gotcha for the left?
I don't get it - are you guys saying that no one is racist if this is racist? Or that republicans can be racist now because they caught a democrat red-handed? How is this validation of racism denier views?
Seems like this is just one more data point about the challenges that people of color face in this country that white people don't. There are obviously people with racist views all over society and across all political parties.
I think it may be helpful if you actually read the first page of this thread and how this was painted by the typical tribalist as an example of how racist the conservatives are. I think you were spot on as to why you were confused.Unit2Sucks said:
There are *gasp* people who proclaim all sorts of views that are inconsistent with how they behave. Hypocrisy doesn't invalidate a view, particularly when the view is that a behavior exhibited by the hypocrit is being denied by other people. Trump filling the swamp with cronies doesn't invalidate his expressed viewpoint that DC was filled with cronies. Of course it was and the fact that t's even worse now under him doesn't make his point any less true, it just means that he's every bit as guilty (or perhaps more so because he recognizes how bad it is).
And, for what it's worth, you could assume this person is a liberal (white, college-educated female in NYC is quite likely to be a democrat), but if we are trying to be accurate, we have no reason to believe that all of the donations are properly attributed given how common this person's name is. She could be apolitical, liberal or conservative, we really have no idea. All we know is that she weaponized this birder's race against him.
No doubt people are hypocrites. And I honestly don't think people are invalidating any view here other than the original view by the same idiots that - gee, if someone is racist, that person must be a conservative (again view some of the stupid posts on the first page).
However, if Trump were to lecture you about how it is wrong to call people names, how one should not play the victim card or how one should respect the press and rule of law, you telling him to shut the **** up does not mean those views are wrong. You just don't want to be lectured to by someone you thing does not live out those values. Why is that so surprising?
I don't recall whether you've said it, but often (white) people complain that progressives think everyone is racist. This is just another example of how pervasive racism is in our culture. I think some conservatives are using this incident to dunk on progressives and say something to the effect of "ha! you guys are racist too" but like I've said a few times already - that's just proving our point. Racism is far too prevalent and can't be ignored.
The problem I have is that something as simple as not treating others differently based on the person's race or the color of their skin is made so complicated that the truth becomes buried in their own personal agenda. Evil of racism does not need qualification, special treatment or exemptions.
As you mention, the problem of racism is not limited to any political party, race, or age. It is always easier for many here to think someone else has the problem and, as such, they don't need to look into their own biases. If we admit that it is human nature to try to feel superior to others for invalid reasons, we can start changing our own behaviors instead of thinking the solution to something like racism can be solved by pointing the fingers at others. I admit that I have to fight my own biases, and I do try to remind myself of the universal truth that nothing predetermines our character. I think if we had started off this discussion with some self-reflection instead of the typical idiots jumping to "conservatives" are evil comments, we could have had a meaningful discussion. But it always comes down to conservative vs liberals here because most of us here have no genuine substance to be able to identify ourselves any other way.
But more importantly, I also don't agree that you or me taking efforts to ensure that we personally fight our own biases is a scalable solution or can meaningfully address the problem our country is facing. Racism is pervasive in our society and throughout our institutions. To mix two incredibly polarizing subjects, addressing racism through individual action is like me trying to ask anti-abortion activists to look within themselves and stop having abortions. Is it true that anti-abortion people should start by not themselves having abortions? Sure. Would that do much to solve the problem they believe exists? Not really. Individual action is a nice starting points for a great many things, but it just isn't anywhere close to sufficient to address some of the larger problems facing our society.
Sorry, must have missed the update to the definition of racism. So, racism exists not only when there is racism plus power but also when Unit2 seems that to be a problem.
Also, if you think considering individual racism is a waste of time, why worry about racism in any one state or country. That is not scalable in a global sense much less in a universe senses. Anything that doesn't address racism and how to solve it in the universe is a waste of time like this thread. And don't waste my time talking about racism when we should be talking about biases against species.
Must be nice to avoid all personal accountability and think promoting a viewpoint that moves no one is more effective. Working great so far in this country.
I clearly said that we as individuals cannot address racism in our country by just not being racist. This really isn't a difficult concept. Believe it or not, there are a lot of racist people in the United States who aren't reading this thread and aren't going to voluntarily choose to not be racist.
It's like Melania Trump pretending she has eliminated online bullying just because she herself hasn't bullied anyone but in reality she hasn't even reduced her husband's bullying one iota.
You seem to enjoy employing reductio ad absurdum but, unsurprisingly, it's not persuasive.
You like to engage in Trump porn. He really has gotten into every single cell in your brain. Must be a miserable existence being so obsessed with such a miserable person.bearister said:calbear93 said:I'm not, but why are you?bearister said:
Why so angry?
You seem to be having a hard time reading what I'm writing because you keep fighting against strawmen that you wrongfully attribute to me.calbear93 said:I don't think you truly understand what you are writing. You think rules can eliminate racism when individuals are still racist? How are you going to change anyone else from being racist? I'm waiting. You think the reason we have racism is because we don't have enough laws? What is it that you are proposing if personal accountability is not the only solution?Unit2Sucks said:I'm sorry that you are having so much trouble discussing this topic, I've never said that considering individual racism is a waste of time, and I think you are smart enough not to have misunderstood.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:I continue to not agree that racism is "not limited to any race" if by that you mean to say that racism against white people is a significant problem.calbear93 said:I think we complicate or politicize things that are very simple. We see that even with COVID-19.Unit2Sucks said:I read the beginning of the thread again and agree assumptions were made that the murderers were conservative racists. Obviously you are correct that there are racists on both sides of the aisle, and if this person is indeed a liberal (which I have no reason to doubt, even though the original reporting of her donations is unverified and possibly spurious) then it would further validate that racism is not just a problem on the right.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:
I haven't seen all the back and forth because I have a few of the usual suspects on ignore, but how is this person exhibiting racist behavior a gotcha for the left?
I don't get it - are you guys saying that no one is racist if this is racist? Or that republicans can be racist now because they caught a democrat red-handed? How is this validation of racism denier views?
Seems like this is just one more data point about the challenges that people of color face in this country that white people don't. There are obviously people with racist views all over society and across all political parties.
I think it may be helpful if you actually read the first page of this thread and how this was painted by the typical tribalist as an example of how racist the conservatives are. I think you were spot on as to why you were confused.Unit2Sucks said:
There are *gasp* people who proclaim all sorts of views that are inconsistent with how they behave. Hypocrisy doesn't invalidate a view, particularly when the view is that a behavior exhibited by the hypocrit is being denied by other people. Trump filling the swamp with cronies doesn't invalidate his expressed viewpoint that DC was filled with cronies. Of course it was and the fact that t's even worse now under him doesn't make his point any less true, it just means that he's every bit as guilty (or perhaps more so because he recognizes how bad it is).
And, for what it's worth, you could assume this person is a liberal (white, college-educated female in NYC is quite likely to be a democrat), but if we are trying to be accurate, we have no reason to believe that all of the donations are properly attributed given how common this person's name is. She could be apolitical, liberal or conservative, we really have no idea. All we know is that she weaponized this birder's race against him.
No doubt people are hypocrites. And I honestly don't think people are invalidating any view here other than the original view by the same idiots that - gee, if someone is racist, that person must be a conservative (again view some of the stupid posts on the first page).
However, if Trump were to lecture you about how it is wrong to call people names, how one should not play the victim card or how one should respect the press and rule of law, you telling him to shut the **** up does not mean those views are wrong. You just don't want to be lectured to by someone you thing does not live out those values. Why is that so surprising?
I don't recall whether you've said it, but often (white) people complain that progressives think everyone is racist. This is just another example of how pervasive racism is in our culture. I think some conservatives are using this incident to dunk on progressives and say something to the effect of "ha! you guys are racist too" but like I've said a few times already - that's just proving our point. Racism is far too prevalent and can't be ignored.
The problem I have is that something as simple as not treating others differently based on the person's race or the color of their skin is made so complicated that the truth becomes buried in their own personal agenda. Evil of racism does not need qualification, special treatment or exemptions.
As you mention, the problem of racism is not limited to any political party, race, or age. It is always easier for many here to think someone else has the problem and, as such, they don't need to look into their own biases. If we admit that it is human nature to try to feel superior to others for invalid reasons, we can start changing our own behaviors instead of thinking the solution to something like racism can be solved by pointing the fingers at others. I admit that I have to fight my own biases, and I do try to remind myself of the universal truth that nothing predetermines our character. I think if we had started off this discussion with some self-reflection instead of the typical idiots jumping to "conservatives" are evil comments, we could have had a meaningful discussion. But it always comes down to conservative vs liberals here because most of us here have no genuine substance to be able to identify ourselves any other way.
But more importantly, I also don't agree that you or me taking efforts to ensure that we personally fight our own biases is a scalable solution or can meaningfully address the problem our country is facing. Racism is pervasive in our society and throughout our institutions. To mix two incredibly polarizing subjects, addressing racism through individual action is like me trying to ask anti-abortion activists to look within themselves and stop having abortions. Is it true that anti-abortion people should start by not themselves having abortions? Sure. Would that do much to solve the problem they believe exists? Not really. Individual action is a nice starting points for a great many things, but it just isn't anywhere close to sufficient to address some of the larger problems facing our society.
Sorry, must have missed the update to the definition of racism. So, racism exists not only when there is racism plus power but also when Unit2 seems that to be a problem.
Also, if you think considering individual racism is a waste of time, why worry about racism in any one state or country. That is not scalable in a global sense much less in a universe senses. Anything that doesn't address racism and how to solve it in the universe is a waste of time like this thread. And don't waste my time talking about racism when we should be talking about biases against species.
Must be nice to avoid all personal accountability and think promoting a viewpoint that moves no one is more effective. Working great so far in this country.
I clearly said that we as individuals cannot address racism in our country by just not being racist. This really isn't a difficult concept. Believe it or not, there are a lot of racist people in the United States who aren't reading this thread and aren't going to voluntarily choose to not be racist.
It's like Melania Trump pretending she has eliminated online bullying just because she herself hasn't bullied anyone but in reality she hasn't even reduced her husband's bullying one iota.
You seem to enjoy employing reductio ad absurdum but, unsurprisingly, it's not persuasive.
If only you could defeat logical fallacies the way you propose to defeat racism, we wouldn't still be having this conversation.
I think you are having a hard time communicating effectively or articulating your point. What is your proposal for addressing racism?Unit2Sucks said:You seem to be having a hard time reading what I'm writing because you keep fighting against strawmen that you wrongfully attribute to me.calbear93 said:I don't think you truly understand what you are writing. You think rules can eliminate racism when individuals are still racist? How are you going to change anyone else from being racist? I'm waiting. You think the reason we have racism is because we don't have enough laws? What is it that you are proposing if personal accountability is not the only solution?Unit2Sucks said:I'm sorry that you are having so much trouble discussing this topic, I've never said that considering individual racism is a waste of time, and I think you are smart enough not to have misunderstood.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:I continue to not agree that racism is "not limited to any race" if by that you mean to say that racism against white people is a significant problem.calbear93 said:I think we complicate or politicize things that are very simple. We see that even with COVID-19.Unit2Sucks said:I read the beginning of the thread again and agree assumptions were made that the murderers were conservative racists. Obviously you are correct that there are racists on both sides of the aisle, and if this person is indeed a liberal (which I have no reason to doubt, even though the original reporting of her donations is unverified and possibly spurious) then it would further validate that racism is not just a problem on the right.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:
I haven't seen all the back and forth because I have a few of the usual suspects on ignore, but how is this person exhibiting racist behavior a gotcha for the left?
I don't get it - are you guys saying that no one is racist if this is racist? Or that republicans can be racist now because they caught a democrat red-handed? How is this validation of racism denier views?
Seems like this is just one more data point about the challenges that people of color face in this country that white people don't. There are obviously people with racist views all over society and across all political parties.
I think it may be helpful if you actually read the first page of this thread and how this was painted by the typical tribalist as an example of how racist the conservatives are. I think you were spot on as to why you were confused.Unit2Sucks said:
There are *gasp* people who proclaim all sorts of views that are inconsistent with how they behave. Hypocrisy doesn't invalidate a view, particularly when the view is that a behavior exhibited by the hypocrit is being denied by other people. Trump filling the swamp with cronies doesn't invalidate his expressed viewpoint that DC was filled with cronies. Of course it was and the fact that t's even worse now under him doesn't make his point any less true, it just means that he's every bit as guilty (or perhaps more so because he recognizes how bad it is).
And, for what it's worth, you could assume this person is a liberal (white, college-educated female in NYC is quite likely to be a democrat), but if we are trying to be accurate, we have no reason to believe that all of the donations are properly attributed given how common this person's name is. She could be apolitical, liberal or conservative, we really have no idea. All we know is that she weaponized this birder's race against him.
No doubt people are hypocrites. And I honestly don't think people are invalidating any view here other than the original view by the same idiots that - gee, if someone is racist, that person must be a conservative (again view some of the stupid posts on the first page).
However, if Trump were to lecture you about how it is wrong to call people names, how one should not play the victim card or how one should respect the press and rule of law, you telling him to shut the **** up does not mean those views are wrong. You just don't want to be lectured to by someone you thing does not live out those values. Why is that so surprising?
I don't recall whether you've said it, but often (white) people complain that progressives think everyone is racist. This is just another example of how pervasive racism is in our culture. I think some conservatives are using this incident to dunk on progressives and say something to the effect of "ha! you guys are racist too" but like I've said a few times already - that's just proving our point. Racism is far too prevalent and can't be ignored.
The problem I have is that something as simple as not treating others differently based on the person's race or the color of their skin is made so complicated that the truth becomes buried in their own personal agenda. Evil of racism does not need qualification, special treatment or exemptions.
As you mention, the problem of racism is not limited to any political party, race, or age. It is always easier for many here to think someone else has the problem and, as such, they don't need to look into their own biases. If we admit that it is human nature to try to feel superior to others for invalid reasons, we can start changing our own behaviors instead of thinking the solution to something like racism can be solved by pointing the fingers at others. I admit that I have to fight my own biases, and I do try to remind myself of the universal truth that nothing predetermines our character. I think if we had started off this discussion with some self-reflection instead of the typical idiots jumping to "conservatives" are evil comments, we could have had a meaningful discussion. But it always comes down to conservative vs liberals here because most of us here have no genuine substance to be able to identify ourselves any other way.
But more importantly, I also don't agree that you or me taking efforts to ensure that we personally fight our own biases is a scalable solution or can meaningfully address the problem our country is facing. Racism is pervasive in our society and throughout our institutions. To mix two incredibly polarizing subjects, addressing racism through individual action is like me trying to ask anti-abortion activists to look within themselves and stop having abortions. Is it true that anti-abortion people should start by not themselves having abortions? Sure. Would that do much to solve the problem they believe exists? Not really. Individual action is a nice starting points for a great many things, but it just isn't anywhere close to sufficient to address some of the larger problems facing our society.
Sorry, must have missed the update to the definition of racism. So, racism exists not only when there is racism plus power but also when Unit2 seems that to be a problem.
Also, if you think considering individual racism is a waste of time, why worry about racism in any one state or country. That is not scalable in a global sense much less in a universe senses. Anything that doesn't address racism and how to solve it in the universe is a waste of time like this thread. And don't waste my time talking about racism when we should be talking about biases against species.
Must be nice to avoid all personal accountability and think promoting a viewpoint that moves no one is more effective. Working great so far in this country.
I clearly said that we as individuals cannot address racism in our country by just not being racist. This really isn't a difficult concept. Believe it or not, there are a lot of racist people in the United States who aren't reading this thread and aren't going to voluntarily choose to not be racist.
It's like Melania Trump pretending she has eliminated online bullying just because she herself hasn't bullied anyone but in reality she hasn't even reduced her husband's bullying one iota.
You seem to enjoy employing reductio ad absurdum but, unsurprisingly, it's not persuasive.
If only you could defeat logical fallacies the way you propose to defeat racism, we wouldn't still be having this conversation.
calbear93 said:You like to engage in Trump porn. He really has gotten into every single cell in your brain. Must be a miserable existence being so obsessed with such a miserable person.bearister said:calbear93 said:I'm not, but why are you?bearister said:
Why so angry?
You may not be old enough and have enough life experience to appreciate the gravity of the situation of having a tRump presidency intersect with a pandemic. It is a state of affairs worthy of much discussion.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Trump as the beginning, middle and end of everything is not a discussion. It's a slow descent into what is now a full blown obsession.bearister said:calbear93 said:You like to engage in Trump porn. He really has gotten into every single cell in your brain. Must be a miserable existence being so obsessed with such a miserable person.bearister said:calbear93 said:I'm not, but why are you?bearister said:
Why so angry?
You may not be old enough and have enough life experience to appreciate the gravity of the situation of having a tRump presidency intersect with a pandemic. It is a state of affairs worthy of much discussion.
And age is not tantamount to wisdom. You may think your Don Quixote battle against Trump who will go through life not knowing you even existed, much less were obsessed with him, accomplishes anything worthwhile to remove him from power, but it doesn't make you wise or effective.
You live in California that will vote blue no matter what. You post on a message board where 99% of the posters who can vote will vote for Biden and where the other 1% think you are insane and will vote for anyone other than who you promote. The only thing you have accomplished is being predictable.
You and your racism are becoming unhinged.bearister said:
" Again, his race is irrelevant.."
Irrelevant to what? If it is irrelevant to how he was treated during the process of his arrest (up to and including his murder by suffocation) please share the facts that led you to draw that conclusion. I have done no research regarding the service history of that arresting officer, and I don't even know if that information is available yet. Often times it is not the offending officer's first rodeo.
What's relevant is a suspect was unlawfully restrained and arrested, leading to the suspect's death. Their race is irrelevant, as it is in ALL other cases of the same nature, unless there is evidence to the contrary UNLESS you are projecting and propagating a racial narrative.
What happened to you?bearister said:
I think this kind of thinking makes it too easy to dodge the accountability that should come with supporting tRump. I'm pretty sure that it is not my imagination or personal thinking process that tRump attracts racists and enables them. It really doesn't matter if tRump is a racist himself. If he takes advantage of the fuel he gets from the Alt Right to propel himself, he is as bad or worse than they are.
Just answer this for me:
Why have the Alt Right adopted tRump as their own? and
Do you find that problematical?
GBear4Life said:What happened to you?bearister said:
I think this kind of thinking makes it too easy to dodge the accountability that should come with supporting tRump. I'm pretty sure that it is not my imagination or personal thinking process that tRump attracts racists and enables them. It really doesn't matter if tRump is a racist himself. If he takes advantage of the fuel he gets from the Alt Right to propel himself, he is as bad or worse than they are.
Just answer this for me:
Why have the Alt Right adopted tRump as their own? and
Do you find that problematical?
So you aren't going to touch those questions I posed either?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
GBear4Life said:You and your racism are becoming unhinged.bearister said:
" Again, his race is irrelevant.."
Irrelevant to what? If it is irrelevant to how he was treated during the process of his arrest (up to and including his murder by suffocation) please share the facts that led you to draw that conclusion. I have done no research regarding the service history of that arresting officer, and I don't even know if that information is available yet. Often times it is not the offending officer's first rodeo.
What's relevant is a suspect was unlawfully restrained and arrested, leading to the suspect's death. Their race is irrelevant, as it is in ALL other cases of the same nature, unless there is evidence to the contrary UNLESS you are projecting and propagating a racial narrative.
My racism? So that makes me a self loathing White boy?
So race may be relevant if there is evidence concerning it? Well, I didn't know all the evidence has been laid out for us yet you have proclaimed race was irrelevant in the crime. I just challenged your conclusion that we know at this time race is irrelevant. Maybe it will turn out this officer has an established pattern of brutalizing fair complected suspects and this was just an aberration. Then race would appear to indeed be irrelevant.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
This GIF is not funny. Stop using it.bearister said:GBear4Life said:Is there a thread you won't drag Trump into?bearister said:
The Alt Right (aka White Nationalist Movement) has adopted tRump as their own. There is a reason for that....and tRump has emboldened them.
tRump has also emboldened people in less serious (but still serious) ways. It is the law in my county to wear a mask when you enter areas where social distancing cannot be kept (primarily buildings open to public). I was in the post office this morning and saw an a$$o from my church (who doesn't know me) go into the PO without a mask on. During the last election I noticed he had a Lock Her Up bumper sticker on his car. So you see, tRump has made it a political statement to not wear a mask.
I'm pretty sure not.
https://media2.giphy.com/media/SYrRj1PjH1WPS/source.gif
Glad we can agree on something. The facts and circumstances of that incident stand on their own.Tedhead94 said:
On top of all of this, nothing of this matters. The events that transpired that resulted in his death are completely separate.
Wait, if we can agree that his history has no relevance in determining culpability and guilt and lawfulness, why do you insist on infantilizing Ahmaud and deploying mental gymnastics in the form of gaslighting about the observable and demonstrable facts regarding his transgressions? He was 25. He is an adult. Spare me the "he's just a kid" narrative. As if that even matters.Quote:
He was a minor when he brought a gun onto his high school campus. His shoplifting conviction was clearly a minor infraction and likely a misdemeanor. Look the law up in GA. Shoplifting could be as little as switching the tags on clothing in Ross for f sake.
It should be easy to call balls and strikes on Ahmaud and all of these similar incidents because it doesn't matter if he was a POS or a choir boy. But no, you are compensating for the inevitability of some number of people using his character to otherwise justify what they consider illegal conduct on the part of the McMichaels. At least we know you believe carrying an illegal firearm to school (lol), jacking a TV, serial trespasser and attempted jacker, driving on public roads illegally without a license, threatening violence against LE (and this is just what we know, but you see a pattern here), resisting arrest, jeopardiing the lives of his teenage peers in totality is merely "minor" and unfair to make judgments about said person's character.
Except for the threat of violence towards LE and the actual violence towards McMichael you mean? LOL.Quote:
There is no record of violence.
Other than that, glad that's where you draw the line as to when we can morally call out somebody's character. Do you follow this standard elsewhere? Just curious of course.
Quote:
Maybe you should chill on the thug label until you have something to show for it. His criminal history is minor and labeling him as violent (see definition of "thug" let alone the social connotations that come along with this term) is a poor, hollow attempt to excuse the behavior of the alleged perpetrators.
It's a tangential point, but I'll extend an olive branch and use more precise language: he is a j**k off and petty criminal who does not give 2 f***s about you or anybody else, as he is willing to violate your property and is willing to fight you should you confront him. To preemptively address any dishonest interpretation of this, he is demonstrably these things as a result of his pattern of behavior. Petty thieves are cowards.
Spare me the infantalizing of characters of a *SELECT* group of people by virtue of their race. This is by definition racial prejudice. But our culture applauds this brand of prejudice so folks walk around actually believing they are on the "moral" side of every conflict.
Mocha Joe Roth said:This GIF is not funny. Stop using it.bearister said:GBear4Life said:Is there a thread you won't drag Trump into?bearister said:
The Alt Right (aka White Nationalist Movement) has adopted tRump as their own. There is a reason for that....and tRump has emboldened them.
tRump has also emboldened people in less serious (but still serious) ways. It is the law in my county to wear a mask when you enter areas where social distancing cannot be kept (primarily buildings open to public). I was in the post office this morning and saw an a$$o from my church (who doesn't know me) go into the PO without a mask on. During the last election I noticed he had a Lock Her Up bumper sticker on his car. So you see, tRump has made it a political statement to not wear a mask.
I'm pretty sure not.
Should I open a file or is this your last instruction?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
This is so dishonest.bearister said:GBear4Life said:
My racism? So that makes me a self loathing White boy?
So race may be relevant if there is evidence concerning it? Well, I didn't know all the evidence has been laid out for us yet you have proclaimed race was irrelevant in the crime. I just challenged your conclusion that we know at this time race is irrelevant. Maybe it will turn out this officer has an established pattern of brutalizing fair complected suspects and this was just an aberration. Then race would appear to indeed be irrelevant.
So when there's evidence found, you can then proceed to include that in the story.
"Hey this is KTVU reporting live in SF at the site of a homicide. There's no evidence that somebody is dead, but we can't find them, so maybe facts will come out that they were indeed murdered in cold blood."
Your abject racism had been getting called out, stop pretending with the "you mean me? Do I hate myself?". And I don't need to make up definitions or project what I *think* you actually think. Many of your posts are by definition bigoted and prejudicial on the basis of race.
Bearister wasn't like this 6 months ago. He'd sprinkle in some sometimes clever digs at Trump. Now it's just digital vomit.calbear93 said:Trump as the beginning, middle and end of everything is not a discussion. It's a slow descent into what is now a full blown obsession.bearister said:calbear93 said:You like to engage in Trump porn. He really has gotten into every single cell in your brain. Must be a miserable existence being so obsessed with such a miserable person.bearister said:calbear93 said:I'm not, but why are you?bearister said:
Why so angry?
You may not be old enough and have enough life experience to appreciate the gravity of the situation of having a tRump presidency intersect with a pandemic. It is a state of affairs worthy of much discussion.
And age is not tantamount to wisdom. You may think your Don Quixote battle against Trump who will go through life not knowing you even existed, much less were obsessed with him, accomplishes anything worthwhile to remove him from power, but it doesn't make you wise or effective.
You live in California that will vote blue no matter what. You post on a message board where 99% of the posters who can vote will vote for Biden and where the other 1% think you are insane and will vote for anyone other than who you promote. The only thing you have accomplished is being predictable.
I'm trying to help you go back to your formerly funny self instead of the annoying liberal Biden supporting cuynt you've become.bearister said:Mocha Joe Roth said:This GIF is not funny. Stop using it.bearister said:GBear4Life said:Is there a thread you won't drag Trump into?bearister said:
The Alt Right (aka White Nationalist Movement) has adopted tRump as their own. There is a reason for that....and tRump has emboldened them.
tRump has also emboldened people in less serious (but still serious) ways. It is the law in my county to wear a mask when you enter areas where social distancing cannot be kept (primarily buildings open to public). I was in the post office this morning and saw an a$$o from my church (who doesn't know me) go into the PO without a mask on. During the last election I noticed he had a Lock Her Up bumper sticker on his car. So you see, tRump has made it a political statement to not wear a mask.
I'm pretty sure not.
https://media2.giphy.com/media/SYrRj1PjH1WPS/source.gif
Should I open a file or is this your last instruction?
https://i.ibb.co/tPKfTQP/Joker-for-President.jpg
Well, we have a shyte for brains President who was elected by shyte for brains voters, opposed by a shytty Democratic party opponent who won the primary due to shyte for brains voters in that party, then had the audacity to question why their shytty candidate lost. Then 4 years later, that same shytty part rammed another shyte for brains candidate down our throat and shyte for brains voters (including ones that vote the way that corrupt Jim Clyburn tells them to) and all the shyte for brains voters that voted for Biden, Bloomberg and Warren on Super Tuesday to oppose that shyte for brains President in his re-election campaign.bearister said:
Why so angry?
Neither of these shytty parties have done anything to help their constituents during this pandemic and this now totally inexcuseable economic lockdown.
And you ask "Why so angry?"
Fsck your entitled ass.
https://i.ibb.co/0jW1T7s/Carlin-on-Education.jpg
The Democratic Party also has a racism problem. They just don't support Nazi-ism, but that doesn't mean there isn't plenty of blood on their hands.bearister said:
"... As you mention, the problem of racism is not limited to any political party...." True, but sometimes the "there are bad people on both sides" analysis ends up being a little overly generous to one side or the other.
Republican activist who ran for Congress: Trump stole my party and my heart is breaking.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/07/19/silent-republicans-allow-racist-trump-rhetoric-to-define-party-column/1767510001/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1767510001
How Racist Is Trump's Republican Party?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/trump-republicans-racism.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/opinion/trump-republicans-racism.amp.html
The Republican Party has a racism problem. And it's not only Rep. Steve King. - Chicago Tribune
https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-met-dahleen-glanton-republican-party-racism-20190114-story.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-met-dahleen-glanton-republican-party-racism-20190114-story.html%3foutputType=amp
How Trump Fuels the Fascist Right | by Bernard E. Harcourt | The New York Review of Books
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/11/29/how-trump-fuels-the-fascist-right/
James Clyburn is as big of an Uncle Tom as there has ever been and Biden is Charlie from Flowers for Algernon at *best.* At worst, he's Charlie who also has some Harvey Weinstein and Montgomery Burns in him as well.
Unit2Sucks said:
I continue to not agree that racism is "not limited to any race" if by that you mean to say that racism against white people is a significant problem.
But more importantly, I also don't agree that you or me taking efforts to ensure that we personally fight our own biases is a scalable solution or can meaningfully address the problem our country is facing. Racism is pervasive in our society and throughout our institutions. To mix two incredibly polarizing subjects, addressing racism through individual action is like me trying to ask anti-abortion activists to look within themselves and stop having abortions. Is it true that anti-abortion people should start by not themselves having abortions? Sure. Would that do much to solve the problem they believe exists? Not really. Individual action is a nice starting points for a great many things, but it just isn't anywhere close to sufficient to address some of the larger problems facing our society.
Based on Debby Irving's definition of racism you subscribe to, what do you propose society or government or fill in the blank do for the U.S or the world in order to curb and eliminate racism?Quote:
Racism is the system that allows the racial group that's already in power to retain power. Since arriving on U.S. soil white people have used their power to create preferential access to survival rights and resources (housing, education, jobs, voting, citizenship, food, health, legal protection, etc.) for white people while simultaneously impeding people of color's access to these same rights and resources.Though "reverse racism" is a term I sometimes hear, it has never existed in America. White people are the only racial group to have ever established and retained power in the United States.
This thread is like one of those dreams where you want to run away but your legs won't move.
theme song in the age of shelter in place..Anarchistbear said:
This thread is like one of those dreams where you want to run away but your legs won't move
muting ~250 handles, turnaround is fair play
Anarchistbear said:
This thread is like one of those dreams where you want to run away but your legs won't move.
That describes every single thread on this forum. Another collateral damage from COViD-19. We have too much time as a result of not being able to do some of the more entertaining and productive things.
Personal Perspective
Did somebody say Row your Boat?
not as easy as it looks # uphill both ways
muting ~250 handles, turnaround is fair play
It really wasn't much different before COVID.calbear93 said:Anarchistbear said:
This thread is like one of those dreams where you want to run away but your legs won't move.
That describes every single thread on this forum. Another collateral damage from COViD-19. We have too much time as a result of not being able to do some of the more entertaining and productive things.
MSM, social media, the cognitively disabled are salivating over this opportunity to spread lies, propagandize and division all while feeling good about one's virtue. "Descent into madness"
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-27/protestors-block-the-101-freeway
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-27/protestors-block-the-101-freeway
GBear4Life said:Bearister wasn't like this 6 months ago. He'd sprinkle in some sometimes clever digs at Trump. Now it's just digital vomit.calbear93 said:Trump as the beginning, middle and end of everything is not a discussion. It's a slow descent into what is now a full blown obsession.bearister said:calbear93 said:You like to engage in Trump porn. He really has gotten into every single cell in your brain. Must be a miserable existence being so obsessed with such a miserable person.bearister said:calbear93 said:I'm not, but why are you?bearister said:
Why so angry?
You may not be old enough and have enough life experience to appreciate the gravity of the situation of having a tRump presidency intersect with a pandemic. It is a state of affairs worthy of much discussion.
And age is not tantamount to wisdom. You may think your Don Quixote battle against Trump who will go through life not knowing you even existed, much less were obsessed with him, accomplishes anything worthwhile to remove him from power, but it doesn't make you wise or effective.
You live in California that will vote blue no matter what. You post on a message board where 99% of the posters who can vote will vote for Biden and where the other 1% think you are insane and will vote for anyone other than who you promote. The only thing you have accomplished is being predictable.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Is this the new L.A. Zoo exhibit or is this protest footage?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Address the cause!
Blame him: correction the Policy
https://twitter.com/King_AIR4/status/1265971197717762049/photo/1
Blame him: correction the Policy
https://twitter.com/King_AIR4/status/1265971197717762049/photo/1
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