LunchTime said:

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bearister said:

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I was taught in grammar school by nuns that you had to have knowledge of all the facts on a contested issue, both supporting and opposing, before you were entitled to have an opinion that was worth serious consideration.

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Advocating voter suppression on this board is an interesting choice.

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You are correct. If voters had to have actual knowledge of the facts, no Republican would ever get elected. This explains how tRump got elected in 2016, and may get re-elected:

1. A majority of Americans cannot name a single branch of government or explain what the Bill of Rights is;

2. 24% can't name the country that the U.S. fought in the Revolutionary War;

3. 2/3 don't know what the holding of Roe v. Wade is;

4. 2/3 don't know what the Food and Drug Administration does;

5. 50% don't know each state has two senators;

6. More than 50% can't name their congressman;

7. The average voter thinks 24% of the U.S. budget goes to foreign aid (less than 1% does);

8. 18% thinks the sun revolves around the earth;

9. 50% don't know that Judaism predates Christianity

I always vote against my best financial interests as do most of the people that vote for tRump, the difference being at least I know I'm doing it.

tRump has always counted on this throughout his life to pull off all his cons:

GivemTheAxe said:

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BancroftBear93 said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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hanky1 said:

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bearister said:

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hanky1 said:

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bearister said:

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I was taught in grammar school by nuns that you had to have knowledge of all the facts on a contested issue, both supporting and opposing, before you were entitled to have an opinion that was worth serious consideration.

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I agree. So that disqualifies Fauci from ever speaking about COVID. Good. I was getting sick of that guy.

---

Yeah, something like that. AR has a conflict of interest. He just wants to play football. The NFL has a significant percentage of Black players. Most of the players that are on the line are by definition obese. Do you think if some of them get seriously ill or die because of contracting COVID 19 that Richard Sherman's allegation of White NFL owners having a "plantation mentality" towards the players may rear it's head again?

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Fauci also has a conflict of interest. The more he screams lockdown, the more the media and some folks worship him like he's a hero without question or thought. I'm watching TV right now and there's a freakin tv commercial thanking Fauci from CBS. Lol. Propaganda man.

See? We all have self interest motive.

---

I think you misunderstand the meaning of "conflict of interest". The conflict of interest problem arises when BEFORE a person addresses a particular issue, that person has an interest in the result or conclusion coming out a certain way so as as to cast doubt on the impartiality of the process.

The fact that Fauci has become famous as a result of his conclusion does not cast doubt on the impartiality of his decisions. He could just hace easily become famous coming to the contrary conclusion. In fact Trump would clearly have made him more famous if he had.

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Yeah, sure thing, buddy. Fauci, whose lifelong professional existence is predicated on the threat of pandemics, has no incentive to hype the threat of a pandemic. It's like asking Mr. Hammer "hey, does this look like a nail?" and expecting him to say, "Nah, nothing for me to do here." lol The mental gymnastics that some people perform to avoid acknowledging the obvious is a sight to behold.

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Your comments give us greater insight into the workings of your mind than into the workings of Dr. Fauci's mind. Most people Who are firefights become fire fighters because they would like to stop or reduce the damage done by fires.
Your attitude would lead to the conclusion that most firefighters would love to see more and greater fires so that they would become more famous and more important.
Further, in view of all the pandemics that have occurred worldwide and nationwide over the past 30 years and are projected to occur over the next 30 years, Fauci would be in demand even if the current pandemic had been snuffed out quickly.

And Had he done so, he would have gotten even more praise And notoriety from the Trump administration who would have seen him as a savior.

---

Most firefighters become firefighters because, like most government jobs, it involves little work, little risk and a great pension. Hotshots excepted. I know two "full-time" firefighters, one runs a construction business with his brother, another a beer distributorship. They mainly BBQ, lift weights and play cards during the 3 days per week that they "work."

But no, your sophomoric and simplistic analogy is faulty. What a firefighter would do is not to pray for more fires like a lunatic (I'm guessing that in your mind, everyone who disagrees with you is a lunatic) but rather 1) greatly exaggerate the rate of occurrence and overall risk of fires and 2) emphasize that he, and only he, has the requisite skill and training to properly drive a large truck and spray a hose.

Great example, thank you.

sycasey said:

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Oh, so NOW hanky1 thinks Aaron Rodgers is great.

https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/95129/replies/1742487
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/89789/replies/1638092
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/85252/replies/1551907
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/72132/replies/1320795
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/70172/replies/1270558

I wonder what happened?

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haha I knew someone would bring that up

bearister said:

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sycasey said:

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Oh, so NOW hanky1 thinks Aaron Rodgers is great.

https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/95129/replies/1742487
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/89789/replies/1638092
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/85252/replies/1551907
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/72132/replies/1320795
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/70172/replies/1270558

I wonder what happened?

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hanky1 and I are polar opposites when it comes to AR: I highly respect AR as a football player; hanky1 disrespects him as a football player.
AR's socioeconomic/political takes on issues have no persuasive effect on me; when it comes to his socioeconomic/political takes, hanky1 thinks AR is think tank fellow material and it makes him leaky.

---

I actually read the stuff about Rodgers a few days ago but intentionally witheld from posting because I was waiting for okaydo to post on it. He loves Rodgers. Man crush. But okaydo disappointed me this time and didn't post anything so i went ahead and did.

The impact of coronavirus is very regional in the U.S. People in different locations have different perspectives.

In New York and New Jersey more than 1 out of every 1,000 residents is dead from coronavirus and that is with us having been in lockdown for 2 months now. That's about 10x more deaths than from 9/11. Notice you don't see too many protests in NY and NJ about the lockdown (some in southern New Jersey which is far from the epicenter).

I can understand thinking it is all overblown if you live in other parts of the country that haven't been impacted that much. But to just say the lockdowns haven't been worth it displays lack of perception of what is happening elsewhere. Maybe it hasn't been worth it where you live. Or maybe it has been worth it but you don't know because the lockdowns have prevented many deaths. Sort of like Y2K. Everybody jokes about Y2K because nothing happened. What people don't acknowledge is how hard many people worked to make sure nothing happened.

dajo9 said:

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..Sort of like Y2K. Everybody jokes about Y2K because nothing happened. What people don't acknowledge is how hard many people worked to make sure nothing happened.

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good post, thanks dajo9. huugely anticipated milestone in the south bay is when the fork county libraries reopen.
# fingers crossed

https://sccl.bibliocommons.com/user/login?destination=https%3A%2F%2Fsccld.org

dajo9 said:

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The impact of coronavirus is very regional in the U.S. People in different locations have different perspectives.

In New York and New Jersey more than 1 out of every 1,000 residents is dead from coronavirus and that is with us having been in lockdown for 2 months now. That's about 10x more deaths than from 9/11. Notice you don't see too many protests in NY and NJ about the lockdown (some in southern New Jersey which is far from the epicenter).

I can understand thinking it is all overblown if you live in other parts of the country that haven't been impacted that much. But to just say the lockdowns haven't been worth it displays lack of perception of what is happening elsewhere. Maybe it hasn't been worth it where you live. Or maybe it has been worth it but you don't know because the lockdowns have prevented many deaths. Sort of like Y2K. Everybody jokes about Y2K because nothing happened. What people don't acknowledge is how hard many people worked to make sure nothing happened.

---

Not so much that it is overblown but it is so misdiagnosed. So many projections, so very wrong. Projections for major urban areas assumed for the rest of America. Warnings that Jacksonville will suffer innumerable deaths when flooding the beaches. Eight weeks later, 36 deaths since March (deSantis crucified in March). 40,000 ventilators needed in NY with hospitals set up by the military for a cost of $400M and not used (taken down). Patients with COVID put back in nursing homes. And the Governor is a hero???

Do not get me wrong. At 78 years young we have ISOed since late February in California. But we are the people who should be ISOed. And until we learned more about the numbers of the virus and who it effected, we should have been overly cautious initially. As we learn on a day to day basis, we should take advantage of same.

The biggest problem is that the side one takes usually lines up with politics and not necessarily with the results we are seeing. It is hard to have any discussion in such and environment. Most conservative neighbors of age that I know have been 100% good about ISO, but don't necessarily believe it for the younger small business owners and people out of work.

Let's do it on the basis of what we see. Be careful but not extreme. In my view our Gov Newsom has done a reasonably good job (I agree with most of what he has done), Cuomo has made mistakes but gives the impression he is trying very hard. DiBlassio and Whitmer are idiots. That from a Repub. How about you dajo? Company line or some common sense?

OdontoBear66 said:

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dajo9 said:

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The impact of coronavirus is very regional in the U.S. People in different locations have different perspectives.

In New York and New Jersey more than 1 out of every 1,000 residents is dead from coronavirus and that is with us having been in lockdown for 2 months now. That's about 10x more deaths than from 9/11. Notice you don't see too many protests in NY and NJ about the lockdown (some in southern New Jersey which is far from the epicenter).

I can understand thinking it is all overblown if you live in other parts of the country that haven't been impacted that much. But to just say the lockdowns haven't been worth it displays lack of perception of what is happening elsewhere. Maybe it hasn't been worth it where you live. Or maybe it has been worth it but you don't know because the lockdowns have prevented many deaths. Sort of like Y2K. Everybody jokes about Y2K because nothing happened. What people don't acknowledge is how hard many people worked to make sure nothing happened.

---

Not so much that it is overblown but it is so misdiagnosed. So many projections, so very wrong. Projections for major urban areas assumed for the rest of America. Warnings that Jacksonville will suffer innumerable deaths when flooding the beaches. Eight weeks later, 36 deaths since March (deSantis crucified in March). 40,000 ventilators needed in NY with hospitals set up by the military for a cost of $400M and not used (taken down). Patients with COVID put back in nursing homes. And the Governor is a hero???

Do not get me wrong. At 78 years young we have ISOed since late February in California. But we are the people who should be ISOed. And until we learned more about the numbers of the virus and who it effected, we should have been overly cautious initially. As we learn on a day to day basis, we should take advantage of same.

The biggest problem is that the side one takes usually lines up with politics and not necessarily with the results we are seeing. It is hard to have any discussion in such and environment. Most conservative neighbors of age that I know have been 100% good about ISO, but don't necessarily believe it for the younger small business owners and people out of work.

Let's do it on the basis of what we see. Be careful but not extreme. In my view our Gov Newsom has done a reasonably good job (I agree with most of what he has done), Cuomo has made mistakes but gives the impression he is trying very hard. DiBlassio and Whitmer are idiots. That from a Repub. How about you dajo? Company line or some common sense?

---

I've posted before that Newsom has shined in all this. He is probably now suffering from the high level of success he and California have had (like Y2K). Remember, the original complaints about Deblasio and Cuomo is that they didn't lock down soon enough. Those complaints have tailed off now that "end the lockdowns" is Republican orthodoxy.

Deblasio has not been impressive. Cuomo has spent too much time with media for my tastes and made some mistakes. My Governor, Murphy, seems to be working well in a disaster situation.

Trump has been an unmitigated disaster. No coordinated plan, misinformation, leaving the states to fend for themselves, and leaving a clear trail of partisan support for his actions.

The Fed unilaterally being able to infinitely fund Wall Street while the average American has to have every penny wrangled from Congress makes me want to end Fed independence. I think the disconnect is disgusting.

I'm happy with Pelosi and I think McConnell should move faster on the clear needs of health providers and state and local governments.

I'm not sure what your complaint about Whitmer is, but I can't say I know much about Michigan.

To me, that is all common sense.

An added note about projections. Projections are just a series of assumptions about risks and opportunities. They are inherently uncertain, especially in a new and unfounded crisis. I have done projections at my work about the financial impact of Covid-19. They have ranged all the way from "minimal impact" to "shut the doors and go home". Anybody could throw some of these projections back at me and call me an idiot. My response would be:
1) information available at the time
2) assumptions regarding the risks out there

I'm not going to hammer people about projections especially in my state which now has 1/1000 dead from the virus. Jacksonville is lucky - so far. We'll see how things go as we open up. Nobody really knows what will happen but should we be appraised of the risks? Yes.

dajo9 said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

The impact of coronavirus is very regional in the U.S. People in different locations have different perspectives.

In New York and New Jersey more than 1 out of every 1,000 residents is dead from coronavirus and that is with us having been in lockdown for 2 months now. That's about 10x more deaths than from 9/11. Notice you don't see too many protests in NY and NJ about the lockdown (some in southern New Jersey which is far from the epicenter).

I can understand thinking it is all overblown if you live in other parts of the country that haven't been impacted that much. But to just say the lockdowns haven't been worth it displays lack of perception of what is happening elsewhere. Maybe it hasn't been worth it where you live. Or maybe it has been worth it but you don't know because the lockdowns have prevented many deaths. Sort of like Y2K. Everybody jokes about Y2K because nothing happened. What people don't acknowledge is how hard many people worked to make sure nothing happened.

---

Not so much that it is overblown but it is so misdiagnosed. So many projections, so very wrong. Projections for major urban areas assumed for the rest of America. Warnings that Jacksonville will suffer innumerable deaths when flooding the beaches. Eight weeks later, 36 deaths since March (deSantis crucified in March). 40,000 ventilators needed in NY with hospitals set up by the military for a cost of $400M and not used (taken down). Patients with COVID put back in nursing homes. And the Governor is a hero???

Do not get me wrong. At 78 years young we have ISOed since late February in California. But we are the people who should be ISOed. And until we learned more about the numbers of the virus and who it effected, we should have been overly cautious initially. As we learn on a day to day basis, we should take advantage of same.

The biggest problem is that the side one takes usually lines up with politics and not necessarily with the results we are seeing. It is hard to have any discussion in such and environment. Most conservative neighbors of age that I know have been 100% good about ISO, but don't necessarily believe it for the younger small business owners and people out of work.

Let's do it on the basis of what we see. Be careful but not extreme. In my view our Gov Newsom has done a reasonably good job (I agree with most of what he has done), Cuomo has made mistakes but gives the impression he is trying very hard. DiBlassio and Whitmer are idiots. That from a Repub. How about you dajo? Company line or some common sense?

---

I've posted before that Newsom has shined in all this. He is probably now suffering from the high level of success he and California have had (like Y2K). Remember, the original complaints about Deblasio and Cuomo is that they didn't lock down soon enough. Those complaints have tailed off now that "end the lockdowns" is Republican orthodoxy.

Deblasio has not been impressive. Cuomo has spent too much time with media for my tastes and made some mistakes. My Governor, Murphy, seems to be working well in a disaster situation.

Trump has been an unmitigated disaster. No coordinated plan, misinformation, leaving the states to fend for themselves, and leaving a clear trail of partisan support for his actions.

The Fed unilaterally being able to infinitely fund Wall Street while the average American has to have every penny wrangled from Congress makes me want to end Fed independence. I think the disconnect is disgusting.

I'm happy with Pelosi and I think McConnell should move faster on the clear needs of health providers and state and local governments.

I'm not sure what your complaint about Whitmer is, but I can't say I know much about Michigan.

To me, that is all common sense.

---

Whitmer was more a matter of reacting too severely to questioning her authority. Power pull. Much like Newsom's mistake on the OC beaches. 1100 miles of California beach and he shuts down OC because he felt defied. Other than that Newsom has done a reasonable job.

Trump and Pelosi have been discussed enough on BI. Neither one do I care for. Look for Newsom in the future and Cuomo substituted in for Biden when Jill pronounces him unfit to serve in Sept or Oct.

OdontoBear66 said:

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Cuomo substituted in for Biden when Jill pronounces him unfit to serve in Sept or Oct.

---

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? It's just pro-Trump propaganda that Biden is unfit for health reasons and will need a late replacement and yet you claim to dislike Trump. Why spew his propaganda?

Besides, if either candidate drops out after the convention, the replacement would be the VP. Anything else would be viewed as absurd - which is the world of partisan Trump propaganda which you are spewing.

Also, your comments on Whitmer sound partisan and unconvincing.

Just read that Montgomery, AL reopened on May 11th. Today their ICU beds are full.

dajo9 said:

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Just read that Birmingham, AL reopened on May 11th. Today their ICU beds are full.

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Deep State Fake News to undermine tRump and shore up failed elitist scientific opinions. You won't see nonsense reports like that out of Governor DeSantis' state.

dajo9 said:

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I've posted before that Newsom has shined in all this. He is probably now suffering from the high level of success he and California have had (like Y2K).

---

He's not really suffering. There is a loud minority that doesn't like what he's doing, but his overall approval rating remains high.

OdontoBear66 said:

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And even Dr. Fauci can get things wrong. January 24 "Covid 19 isn't something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about, because we have ways of preparing and screening of. It's a very, very low risk to the United States, but it's something that we as public health officials need to take very seriously."

Well the last sentence is and was sure true. Guess we must take care where we throw spears of blame.

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He made a terrible assumption. He assumed a competent government response from the Trump Administration. What an idiot!

dajo9 said:

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Besides, if either candidate drops out after the convention, the replacement would be the VP. Anything else would be viewed as absurd - which is the world of partisan Trump propaganda which you are spewing.

---

Not quite right... From 538.com https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-happens-if-a-presidential-nominee-can-no-longer-run-for-office/

"If something were to happen to the presumptive nominee before the convention, the parties have a plan they'd proceed as normal and use the convention to pick the nominee. And if something happened after the convention but before the election, there's a plan for that, too national party committees would step in. After the election, though, things get murkier, as it's uncertain how the result would work out in the Electoral College."

This story should be popular with the bubble here:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/02/philippines-duterte-threatens-to-shoot-lockdown-violators.html

dajo9 said:

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Just read that Birmingham, AL reopened on May 11th. Today their ICU beds are full.

---

It was never a question of infection not rising if states began opening up. Everyone knew that would be the case.

If a collapse of the economy by waiting until there is a vaccine or until we can fully test and trace (and I know who we all blame) is not an option, then we really don't have a choice. We can debate whether the economy will collapse if we shut it down for another 3 or 4 months beyond the current 2 months, but if you look at the unemployment rate and reduction in revenue of 40-70% for companies from shutting it down only for 2 months, any further shut down was not realistic.

It is not a choice between less death and more death with all other things being equal. It is a question of how many death with either options and what is the quality of life for those who survive. And of course quality of life matters - no one thinks the difference between spending your life in jail versus with your family is trivial as long as you are alive - so quality of life matters greatly. If we have 40% unemployment with many more homeless, broken families, health issues from stress and anxiety, no bright future for the youngest generation, reducing death by ___% is not necessarily a victory just like making cars illegal do reduce death rate would not be a victory.

Go!Bears said:

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dajo9 said:

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Besides, if either candidate drops out after the convention, the replacement would be the VP. Anything else would be viewed as absurd - which is the world of partisan Trump propaganda which you are spewing.

---

Not quite right... From 538.com https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-happens-if-a-presidential-nominee-can-no-longer-run-for-office/

"If something were to happen to the presumptive nominee before the convention, the parties have a plan they'd proceed as normal and use the convention to pick the nominee. And if something happened after the convention but before the election, there's a plan for that, too national party committees would step in. After the election, though, things get murkier, as it's uncertain how the result would work out in the Electoral College."

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And the idea the Committee would pick anybody other than the VP pick is absurd

bearister said:

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I'd be interested in his opinions about brain surgery and quantum physics as well.

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Why not...we know yours.

dajo9 said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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Cuomo substituted in for Biden when Jill pronounces him unfit to serve in Sept or Oct.

---

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? It's just pro-Trump propaganda that Biden is unfit for health reasons and will need a late replacement and yet you claim to dislike Trump. Why spew his propaganda?

Besides, if either candidate drops out after the convention, the replacement would be the VP. Anything else would be viewed as absurd - which is the world of partisan Trump propaganda which you are spewing.

Also, your comments on Whitmer sound partisan and unconvincing.

---

You can be a pretty locked in Repub without liking Trump or his antics, but finding any alternative on the horizon pretty unacceptable. The comment on Biden's pull out is my opinion alone as are my feelings for Whitmer's actions. I just cannot imagine Biden being the candidate with the many minutes of speaking gaffes that will be used. Then again, I feel the Bernie people cannot be screwed again as they were in 2016, so some delicate balance must be served. I watch the media darlings and they are Cuomo with a dark horse of Michelle as VP as you suggest. I just do not think (opinion, not suggesting as fact at all) that the Dems will stick with Joe. Something has got to give. Joe would have been OK back in the day, but that day has passed.

Joe Biden will be the Democrats candidate as chosen by Democratic voters. I don't know who he'll pick as VP but I suspect Warren, Harris, or Abrams.

The most likely option 6 months ago was Biden / Harris and that is probably the case today.

How do you think all of those VP choices will fly in the key states needed for victory in the Electoral College?

None of those choices would necessarily help him in Michigan, Pennsylvania or Wisconsin, but hopefully swing voters there will vote either FOR Joe Biden, or AGAINST the incumbent.

With Abrams, I'm concerned about her thin resume. Biden's running mate needs to look like she's ready to step in, just in case.

Biden needs 3 states: Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania. All 3 have sizeable minority communities (Harris, Abrams) and they all have young people who lean very left (Warren). I think they all help him. Anybody but a Tim Kaine remake should serve Biden well.

I'd be happy with any of them but my dream scenario would be:
President Biden
Vice President Warren
Attorney General Harris
Ambassador to Russia Hillary Clinton

Cal Strong! said:

---

United States is currently giving too much weak preference towards individual freedoms. In time of crises, countries need to prioritize collective responsibility. America did this strongly in the world wars. The north did so during Civil War. But today Americans too weak and narcissistic to embrace collective responsibility. Americans need to do more squats and care for their neighbors more . . . and read less weak nonsense online.

Look at difference between a few US states with strong individualistic cultures, and two foreign countries -- one right wing and the other left wing -- that embrace collective responsibility:


Individualism:

California - 39 million people, 3,334 covid deaths.

Michigan - 10 million people, 5,017 covid deaths.

Massachusetts - 7 million people, 5,938 covid deaths.

Collective Responsibility:

Australia - 25 million people, 100 covid deaths.

New Zealand - 5 million people, 21 covid deaths.

---

Australia an NZ are southern hemisphere countries, this might have been the main factor shielding them from the kind of high numbers culturally similar countries like Canada or Ireland have had. That and stronger quarantine policies and tighter control over their borders.


Australian flu cases recent history

The US actually fared significantly better than western Europe, with roughly half as many deaths per capita. I think this has less to do with Trump's heroics or incompetence than the nature of the biological terrain in N. America, pandemics don't like suburban lifestyles or sun-drenched southern cities as much as northern crowded urban metropoles like NYC or Detroit.

There are some strong regional discrepancies within each country, and a lot of that is due to random aspects of the epidemic, as opposed to the alleged virtuous nature or therelack of.of the people and governors of these regions. For example in Italy Napoli, a dense, dirty and corrupt large city skated, while Milan, the cleanest, most disciplined and most advanced region in Italy got pummeled.

Sometimes local administration and policies did matter, for example in France patients from the Marseille region had casualty rates 5 times lower than those in Paris and 8 times lower than in Alsace-Lorraine due to the systematic early onset hydroxychloroquine treatment applied at the main regional hospital in Marseille, but in general one feature of pandemics is that the areas of early regional and national outbreaks tend to get hit the hardest.

Cal88 said:

---

Cal Strong! said:

---

United States is currently giving too much weak preference towards individual freedoms. In time of crises, countries need to prioritize collective responsibility. America did this strongly in the world wars. The north did so during Civil War. But today Americans too weak and narcissistic to embrace collective responsibility. Americans need to do more squats and care for their neighbors more . . . and read less weak nonsense online.

Look at difference between a few US states with strong individualistic cultures, and two foreign countries -- one right wing and the other left wing -- that embrace collective responsibility:


Individualism:

California - 39 million people, 3,334 covid deaths.

Michigan - 10 million people, 5,017 covid deaths.

Massachusetts - 7 million people, 5,938 covid deaths.

Collective Responsibility:

Australia - 25 million people, 100 covid deaths.

New Zealand - 5 million people, 21 covid deaths.

---

Australia an NZ are southern hemisphere countries, this might have been the main factor shielding them from the kind of high numbers culturally similar countries like Canada or Ireland have had. That and stronger quarantine policies and tighter control over their borders.


Australian flu cases recent history

The US actually fared significantly better than western Europe, with roughly half as many deaths per capita. I think this has less to do with Trump's heroics or incompetence than the nature of the biological terrain in N. America, pandemics don't like suburban lifestyles or sun-drenched southern cities as much as northern crowded urban metropoles like NYC or Detroit.

There are some strong regional discrepancies within each country, and a lot of that is due to random aspects of the epidemic, as opposed to the alleged virtuous nature or therelack of.of the people and governors of these regions. For example in Italy Napoli, a dense, dirty and corrupt large city skated, while Milan, the cleanest, most disciplined and most advanced region in Italy got pummeled.

Sometimes local administration and policies did matter, for example in France patients from the Marseille region had casualty rates 5 times lower than those in Paris and 8 times lower than in Alsace-Lorraine due to the systematic early onset hydroxychloroquine treatment applied at the main regional hospital in Marseille, but in general one feature of pandemics is that the areas of early regional and national outbreaks tend to get hit the hardest.

---

How about Hong Kong? 1034 cases, 4 deaths and 7,000,000 people. No lock downs.

kelly09 said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

Cal Strong! said:

---

United States is currently giving too much weak preference towards individual freedoms. In time of crises, countries need to prioritize collective responsibility. America did this strongly in the world wars. The north did so during Civil War. But today Americans too weak and narcissistic to embrace collective responsibility. Americans need to do more squats and care for their neighbors more . . . and read less weak nonsense online.

Look at difference between a few US states with strong individualistic cultures, and two foreign countries -- one right wing and the other left wing -- that embrace collective responsibility:


Individualism:

California - 39 million people, 3,334 covid deaths.

Michigan - 10 million people, 5,017 covid deaths.

Massachusetts - 7 million people, 5,938 covid deaths.

Collective Responsibility:

Australia - 25 million people, 100 covid deaths.

New Zealand - 5 million people, 21 covid deaths.

---

Australia an NZ are southern hemisphere countries, this might have been the main factor shielding them from the kind of high numbers culturally similar countries like Canada or Ireland have had. That and stronger quarantine policies and tighter control over their borders.


Australian flu cases recent history

The US actually fared significantly better than western Europe, with roughly half as many deaths per capita. I think this has less to do with Trump's heroics or incompetence than the nature of the biological terrain in N. America, pandemics don't like suburban lifestyles or sun-drenched southern cities as much as northern crowded urban metropoles like NYC or Detroit.

There are some strong regional discrepancies within each country, and a lot of that is due to random aspects of the epidemic, as opposed to the alleged virtuous nature or therelack of.of the people and governors of these regions. For example in Italy Napoli, a dense, dirty and corrupt large city skated, while Milan, the cleanest, most disciplined and most advanced region in Italy got pummeled.

Sometimes local administration and policies did matter, for example in France patients from the Marseille region had casualty rates 5 times lower than those in Paris and 8 times lower than in Alsace-Lorraine due to the systematic early onset hydroxychloroquine treatment applied at the main regional hospital in Marseille, but in general one feature of pandemics is that the areas of early regional and national outbreaks tend to get hit the hardest.

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How about Hong Kong? 1034 cases, 4 deaths and 7,000,000 people. No lock downs.

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And lots of masks. But in the U.S.? Hells to the no. (At least outside of L.A.)

Asian populations as a culture have discipline and follow the rules, unlike our weak sauce culture. People are asked to stay home for two months and you would think they were serving a dime at Pelican Bay.
My mom told me as 10 year old that life is much easier when you are disciplined but damn near impossible if you are not. It is basically the Fall of the Roman Empire. We are weak as sh@it.

Required reading when my son was in the basketball program at DLS. Frank Allocco handed it out:

A Nation of Wimps | Psychology Today


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/200411/nation-wimps
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/200411/nation-wimps%3famp

dajo9 said:

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Go!Bears said:

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dajo9 said:

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Y
Besides, if either candidate drops out after the convention, the replacement would be the VP. Anything else would be viewed as absurd - which is the world of partisan Trump propaganda which you are spewing.

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Not quite right... From 538.com https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-happens-if-a-presidential-nominee-can-no-longer-run-for-office/

"If something were to happen to the presumptive nominee before the convention, the parties have a plan they'd proceed as normal and use the convention to pick the nominee. And if something happened after the convention but before the election, there's a plan for that, too national party committees would step in. After the election, though, things get murkier, as it's uncertain how the result would work out in the Electoral College."

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And the idea the Committee would pick anybody other than the VP pick is absurd

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Based on what? There is no precedent and the VP nominee would have been selected by someone who no longer figures in the decision. The outcome depends on so many unknown variables that thinking any choice is a given is actually absurd.

dajo9 said:

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Joe Biden will be the Democrats candidate as chosen by Democratic voters. I don't know who he'll pick as VP but I suspect Warren, Harris, or Abrams.

The most likely option 6 months ago was Biden / Harris and that is probably the case today.

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It won't be #1 or #3. It'll be #2.

OdontoBear66 said:

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dajo9 said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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Cuomo substituted in for Biden when Jill pronounces him unfit to serve in Sept or Oct.

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Where do you guys come up with this stuff? It's just pro-Trump propaganda that Biden is unfit for health reasons and will need a late replacement and yet you claim to dislike Trump. Why spew his propaganda?

Besides, if either candidate drops out after the convention, the replacement would be the VP. Anything else would be viewed as absurd - which is the world of partisan Trump propaganda which you are spewing.

Also, your comments on Whitmer sound partisan and unconvincing.

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You can be a pretty locked in Repub without liking Trump or his antics, but finding any alternative on the horizon pretty unacceptable. The comment on Biden's pull out is my opinion alone as are my feelings for Whitmer's actions. I just cannot imagine Biden being the candidate with the many minutes of speaking gaffes that will be used. Then again, I feel the Bernie people cannot be screwed again as they were in 2016, so some delicate balance must be served. I watch the media darlings and they are Cuomo with a dark horse of Michelle as VP as you suggest. I just do not think (opinion, not suggesting as fact at all) that the Dems will stick with Joe. Something has got to give. Joe would have been OK back in the day, but that day has passed.

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Ironically, Biden's "many minutes of speaking gaffes" are surpassed by only one man--
and easily surpassed at that--one Donald J. Trump. For every one of Joe's gaffes
Donnie T has him beat by a factor of at least 10. This ought to be some election!

dajo9 said:

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Joe Biden will be the Democrats candidate as chosen by Democratic voters. I don't know who he'll pick as VP but I suspect Warren, Harris, or Abrams.

The most likely option 6 months ago was Biden / Harris and that is probably the case today.

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How much drinking does one have to do prior to pulling the lever for any of those combos?