A darker purpose for the police/military aggression?

5,573 Views | 64 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by blungld
blungld
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Watching things play out, and the degree to which the protest "control" is stoked by the enforcement strategies, the use of completely unnecessary violence, and the glee in inflicting power and personal animus of many the police/military efforts, it's hard not to speculate about a bigger picture this is serving.

Is all of this a dry run?

There is no peacekeeping here. There is no conversation taking place between the president and the American people. There is no progress or response to the people he has taken an oath to serve (rather than himself). This is NOT simply protecting shop windows. This is straight silencing of civil disobedience and punishing protest. So what is really going on?

Is the intention here to create more divide between enforcement and the citizens--to inflame and make sure each see the other as the enemy? To create true ill will between them, one armed, the other unarmed, so that when called upon again it already begins at a higher pitch and the two parties will be more focused on revenge and less focused on why they are in conflict or who is pitting them against one another? To get Americans used to fighting one another--for it to lose shock value between those administrating the beatings and those watching and reporting the beatings?

Is this a loyalty test to see who in enforcement is willing to turn against fellow Americans, who can be counted on to follow ANY order and who will turn on the president (weed them out now)? Is Trump trying to further stoke his base, get them itching to jump in with their guns and side with enforcement and show those Libs a real lesson, maybe start shooting at fellow Americans themselves and take matters into their own hands (no accountability to Trump, no orders, just Americans killing all on their own)?

Is this the next step in the white supremacy boards and conspiracy sites he makes cryptic nods to and that have grown in paranoia and fervor even though THEIR man is in charge--somehow the enemy is even more of a threat--and is he selling them that he is the savior, the coming of the white national Christian revolution and it needs to be bloody against this Deep State as is God's plan (you know, Jesus LOVES military and killing and dictators).

Is he checking how far he can push Republicans, what they will still tolerate and not speak against, and to what limits he can push the courts on the extent of presidential authority, and how well he can amass an un-identified, un-uniformed, un-traceable, un-recorded secret army (finally his own brownshirts and SS) to do the real brutish dirty work and trigger violence and force obedience? What can the likes of Barr and Miller and the rest do to keep him in power no matter what?

I think there is a very good chance that what we are watching is far darker and far more planned than we think.

I am afraid this will subside the next few weeks, underneath it will still boil, but Americans will get pulled back into concerns of the virus, the stress of daily lives, and the upcoming election without knowing we just saw the dress rehearsal for Trump's re-election strategy and what will be his attempt at the takeover by a military state into the authoritarian regime he has fantasized about and planned for since day one of his oath.

I believe that with the crimes he and his cohorts have already committed and the dirty deals they have struck he simply CAN NOT lose control of the government or he will lose everything. This is him surveying how difficult it will be to not leave office. And if I was as screwed up as him, I would have to be encouraged by the results thus far and how many are okay with the violence and will still stand with him or be silent NO MATTER WHAT.

If I were him, I would conclude that a takeover is worth a shot. I would see no reason to honor the election results, follow any law, or care one lick about anyone other than myself--which has always been his operating instructions any way. His base literally believes everything he says even when they are straight out lies that could not be easier to show as lies. He owns truth so why not just keep tossing tax breaks to the rich; hoisting patriotic (I hugged a flag!) and religious (I lifted a Bible!) symbols for the gullible loyalists; permitting guns and violence for the rednecks; deregulating and allowing the corrupt, old white boy network to prosper; giving Republicans whatever they want if they just shut up; and appeasing the foreign interests that pay his bills and help his business interests. Why not? The liberals are a bunch of p@ssies who couldn't even remove him from office with blatant illegal conduct, couldn't even get him under oath. F them.

So, we need things like the Mattis response and pushback by ANY Republican of conscience, corporate America, and the dogged determination of the protesters on the street (not the vandals) because I think we are standing up for something much more ominous than we know and sending a message that very may well save the Republic.
sp4149
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When this is all said and done, which will be after an election and possibly a coup remove the current Attorney General; we will likely find that some of those police tear gassing protesters were never really police.

In defiance of Congress, DOD contractors have been required to provide security forces when requested by the Contracting Officer. This had been the practice overseas, but after 9/11 this provision was added to domestic DOD contracts. Congress routinely prohibits outsourcing security forces in the annual appropriations bill, but the contracts are enacted and renewed during times of continuing resolutions; after the previous funding bill (and the prohibitions) had expired. Eric Prince and other security contractors (mercenary armies) have made billions filling this contractual need.

Much has been made about the Attorney General ordering the clearing of the street to allow Trump to have a photo op at St. John's across from the White House. Media coverage reported that the 'officers' clearing the street did not have badges or name tags to identify them or their police agency. Contract mercenaries cannot legally wear law enforcement badges and do not have to wear name tag IDs and aren't an 'official' police agency. These are not mall cops; the Bush Administration used Blackwater mercenaries armed with machine guns to control the victims of Hurricane Katrina seeking Federal aid. If Barr's mercenary army kills someone, rest assured his DOJ will not prosecute.

The death of Federal Security Guard David Underwood in Oakland was reported by the media as a killing of a police officer.
Security guards do not have police authority or the same training and qualifications requirements. While on duty contract guards must have line of sight supervision by a Federal law enforcement officer. In practice this is hard to achieve.
calbear93
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blungld said:

Watching things play out, and the degree to which the protest "control" is stoked by the enforcement strategies, the use of completely unnecessary violence, and the glee in inflicting power and personal animus of many the police/military efforts, it's hard not to speculate about a bigger picture this is serving.

Is all of this a dry run?

There is no peacekeeping here. There is no conversation taking place between the president and the American people. There is no progress or response to the people he has taken an oath to serve (rather than himself). This is NOT simply protecting shop windows. This is straight silencing of civil disobedience and punishing protest. So what is really going on?

Is the intention here to create more divide between enforcement and the citizens--to inflame and make sure each see the other as the enemy? To create true ill will between them, one armed, the other unarmed, so that when called upon again it already begins at a higher pitch and the two parties will be more focused on revenge and less focused on why they are in conflict or who is pitting them against one another? To get Americans used to fighting one another--for it to lose shock value between those administrating the beatings and those watching and reporting the beatings?

Is this a loyalty test to see who in enforcement is willing to turn against fellow Americans, who can be counted on to follow ANY order and who will turn on the president (weed them out now)? Is Trump trying to further stoke his base, get them itching to jump in with their guns and side with enforcement and show those Libs a real lesson, maybe start shooting at fellow Americans themselves and take matters into their own hands (no accountability to Trump, no orders, just Americans killing all on their own)?

Is this the next step in the white supremacy boards and conspiracy sites he makes cryptic nods to and that have grown in paranoia and fervor even though THEIR man is in charge--somehow the enemy is even more of a threat--and is he selling them that he is the savior, the coming of the white national Christian revolution and it needs to be bloody against this Deep State as is God's plan (you know, Jesus LOVES military and killing and dictators).

Is he checking how far he can push Republicans, what they will still tolerate and not speak against, and to what limits he can push the courts on the extent of presidential authority, and how well he can amass an un-identified, un-uniformed, un-traceable, un-recorded secret army (finally his own brownshirts and SS) to do the real brutish dirty work and trigger violence and force obedience? What can the likes of Barr and Miller and the rest do to keep him in power no matter what?

I think there is a very good chance that what we are watching is far darker and far more planned than we think.

I am afraid this will subside the next few weeks, underneath it will still boil, but Americans will get pulled back into concerns of the virus, the stress of daily lives, and the upcoming election without knowing we just saw the dress rehearsal for Trump's re-election strategy and what will be his attempt at the takeover by a military state into the authoritarian regime he has fantasized about and planned for since day one of his oath.

I believe that with the crimes he and his cohorts have already committed and the dirty deals they have struck he simply CAN NOT lose control of the government or he will lose everything. This is him surveying how difficult it will be to not leave office. And if I was as screwed up as him, I would have to be encouraged by the results thus far and how many are okay with the violence and will still stand with him or be silent NO MATTER WHAT.

If I were him, I would conclude that a takeover is worth a shot. I would see no reason to honor the election results, follow any law, or care one lick about anyone other than myself--which has always been his operating instructions any way. His base literally believes everything he says even when they are straight out lies that could not be easier to show as lies. He owns truth so why not just keep tossing tax breaks to the rich; hoisting patriotic (I hugged a flag!) and religious (I lifted a Bible!) symbols for the gullible loyalists; permitting guns and violence for the rednecks; deregulating and allowing the corrupt, old white boy network to prosper; giving Republicans whatever they want if they just shut up; and appeasing the foreign interests that pay his bills and help his business interests. Why not? The liberals are a bunch of p@ssies who couldn't even remove him from office with blatant illegal conduct, couldn't even get him under oath. F them.

So, we need things like the Mattis response and pushback by ANY Republican of conscience, corporate America, and the dogged determination of the protesters on the street (not the vandals) because I think we are standing up for something much more ominous than we know and sending a message that very may well save the Republic.
May I recommend you step away from this board for couple of days. You are sounding a bit like someone hiding in a basement coming up with conspiracy theory. I doubt anyone else here will tell you that because of your political leanings, but if you do not believe me, please share what you wrote with your wife or your relatives. I apologize if that comes across as harsh but this is some Bizarro QAnon stuff.
Anarchistbear
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I have an idea. Why don't the Democrat Mayors who have funded, outfitted and supported these police for decades do something?
okaydo
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blungld
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Anarchistbear said:

I have an idea. Why don't the Democrat Mayors who have funded, outfitted and supported these police for decades do something?
Police unions.
blungld
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calbear93 said:

blungld said:

Watching things play out, and the degree to which the protest "control" is stoked by the enforcement strategies, the use of completely unnecessary violence, and the glee in inflicting power and personal animus of many the police/military efforts, it's hard not to speculate about a bigger picture this is serving.

Is all of this a dry run?

There is no peacekeeping here. There is no conversation taking place between the president and the American people. There is no progress or response to the people he has taken an oath to serve (rather than himself). This is NOT simply protecting shop windows. This is straight silencing of civil disobedience and punishing protest. So what is really going on?

Is the intention here to create more divide between enforcement and the citizens--to inflame and make sure each see the other as the enemy? To create true ill will between them, one armed, the other unarmed, so that when called upon again it already begins at a higher pitch and the two parties will be more focused on revenge and less focused on why they are in conflict or who is pitting them against one another? To get Americans used to fighting one another--for it to lose shock value between those administrating the beatings and those watching and reporting the beatings?

Is this a loyalty test to see who in enforcement is willing to turn against fellow Americans, who can be counted on to follow ANY order and who will turn on the president (weed them out now)? Is Trump trying to further stoke his base, get them itching to jump in with their guns and side with enforcement and show those Libs a real lesson, maybe start shooting at fellow Americans themselves and take matters into their own hands (no accountability to Trump, no orders, just Americans killing all on their own)?

Is this the next step in the white supremacy boards and conspiracy sites he makes cryptic nods to and that have grown in paranoia and fervor even though THEIR man is in charge--somehow the enemy is even more of a threat--and is he selling them that he is the savior, the coming of the white national Christian revolution and it needs to be bloody against this Deep State as is God's plan (you know, Jesus LOVES military and killing and dictators).

Is he checking how far he can push Republicans, what they will still tolerate and not speak against, and to what limits he can push the courts on the extent of presidential authority, and how well he can amass an un-identified, un-uniformed, un-traceable, un-recorded secret army (finally his own brownshirts and SS) to do the real brutish dirty work and trigger violence and force obedience? What can the likes of Barr and Miller and the rest do to keep him in power no matter what?

I think there is a very good chance that what we are watching is far darker and far more planned than we think.

I am afraid this will subside the next few weeks, underneath it will still boil, but Americans will get pulled back into concerns of the virus, the stress of daily lives, and the upcoming election without knowing we just saw the dress rehearsal for Trump's re-election strategy and what will be his attempt at the takeover by a military state into the authoritarian regime he has fantasized about and planned for since day one of his oath.

I believe that with the crimes he and his cohorts have already committed and the dirty deals they have struck he simply CAN NOT lose control of the government or he will lose everything. This is him surveying how difficult it will be to not leave office. And if I was as screwed up as him, I would have to be encouraged by the results thus far and how many are okay with the violence and will still stand with him or be silent NO MATTER WHAT.

If I were him, I would conclude that a takeover is worth a shot. I would see no reason to honor the election results, follow any law, or care one lick about anyone other than myself--which has always been his operating instructions any way. His base literally believes everything he says even when they are straight out lies that could not be easier to show as lies. He owns truth so why not just keep tossing tax breaks to the rich; hoisting patriotic (I hugged a flag!) and religious (I lifted a Bible!) symbols for the gullible loyalists; permitting guns and violence for the rednecks; deregulating and allowing the corrupt, old white boy network to prosper; giving Republicans whatever they want if they just shut up; and appeasing the foreign interests that pay his bills and help his business interests. Why not? The liberals are a bunch of p@ssies who couldn't even remove him from office with blatant illegal conduct, couldn't even get him under oath. F them.

So, we need things like the Mattis response and pushback by ANY Republican of conscience, corporate America, and the dogged determination of the protesters on the street (not the vandals) because I think we are standing up for something much more ominous than we know and sending a message that very may well save the Republic.
May I recommend you step away from this board for couple of days. You are sounding a bit like someone hiding in a basement coming up with conspiracy theory. I doubt anyone else here will tell you that because of your political leanings, but if you do not believe me, please share what you wrote with your wife or your relatives. I apologize if that comes across as harsh but this is some Bizarro QAnon stuff.
Thanks for the concern.

I have in fact shared with family and friends. The "crazy" in writing this is thinking that posting it here will change anyone's mind and the waste of time it took to write it. I guess I find it cathartic and every once in a while these posts become op-eds that are posted in local papers. To be clear, I didn't say that THIS IS what is happening, I said that it is a real concern that it MIGHT be happening or attempted. But when in this president's term have worst case scenarios NOT played out to one degree or another? It seems only logical to anticipate his insanity rather than just react.

Nonetheless, I will take your advice and take the weekend off from the board. Take care.
Anarchistbear
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blungld said:

Anarchistbear said:

I have an idea. Why don't the Democrat Mayors who have funded, outfitted and supported these police for decades do something?
Police unions.


Total nonsense and and a lame partisan excuse because it implies they would do something if it weren't for these unions but there is no evidence of that. They are elected officials and responsible for staffing, budgeting and controlling the police. The fact is they will take the union's money and give them what they want because it's good for their careers and if their marginal citizens suffer, who cares?
calbear93
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blungld said:

calbear93 said:

blungld said:

Watching things play out, and the degree to which the protest "control" is stoked by the enforcement strategies, the use of completely unnecessary violence, and the glee in inflicting power and personal animus of many the police/military efforts, it's hard not to speculate about a bigger picture this is serving.

Is all of this a dry run?

There is no peacekeeping here. There is no conversation taking place between the president and the American people. There is no progress or response to the people he has taken an oath to serve (rather than himself). This is NOT simply protecting shop windows. This is straight silencing of civil disobedience and punishing protest. So what is really going on?

Is the intention here to create more divide between enforcement and the citizens--to inflame and make sure each see the other as the enemy? To create true ill will between them, one armed, the other unarmed, so that when called upon again it already begins at a higher pitch and the two parties will be more focused on revenge and less focused on why they are in conflict or who is pitting them against one another? To get Americans used to fighting one another--for it to lose shock value between those administrating the beatings and those watching and reporting the beatings?

Is this a loyalty test to see who in enforcement is willing to turn against fellow Americans, who can be counted on to follow ANY order and who will turn on the president (weed them out now)? Is Trump trying to further stoke his base, get them itching to jump in with their guns and side with enforcement and show those Libs a real lesson, maybe start shooting at fellow Americans themselves and take matters into their own hands (no accountability to Trump, no orders, just Americans killing all on their own)?

Is this the next step in the white supremacy boards and conspiracy sites he makes cryptic nods to and that have grown in paranoia and fervor even though THEIR man is in charge--somehow the enemy is even more of a threat--and is he selling them that he is the savior, the coming of the white national Christian revolution and it needs to be bloody against this Deep State as is God's plan (you know, Jesus LOVES military and killing and dictators).

Is he checking how far he can push Republicans, what they will still tolerate and not speak against, and to what limits he can push the courts on the extent of presidential authority, and how well he can amass an un-identified, un-uniformed, un-traceable, un-recorded secret army (finally his own brownshirts and SS) to do the real brutish dirty work and trigger violence and force obedience? What can the likes of Barr and Miller and the rest do to keep him in power no matter what?

I think there is a very good chance that what we are watching is far darker and far more planned than we think.

I am afraid this will subside the next few weeks, underneath it will still boil, but Americans will get pulled back into concerns of the virus, the stress of daily lives, and the upcoming election without knowing we just saw the dress rehearsal for Trump's re-election strategy and what will be his attempt at the takeover by a military state into the authoritarian regime he has fantasized about and planned for since day one of his oath.

I believe that with the crimes he and his cohorts have already committed and the dirty deals they have struck he simply CAN NOT lose control of the government or he will lose everything. This is him surveying how difficult it will be to not leave office. And if I was as screwed up as him, I would have to be encouraged by the results thus far and how many are okay with the violence and will still stand with him or be silent NO MATTER WHAT.

If I were him, I would conclude that a takeover is worth a shot. I would see no reason to honor the election results, follow any law, or care one lick about anyone other than myself--which has always been his operating instructions any way. His base literally believes everything he says even when they are straight out lies that could not be easier to show as lies. He owns truth so why not just keep tossing tax breaks to the rich; hoisting patriotic (I hugged a flag!) and religious (I lifted a Bible!) symbols for the gullible loyalists; permitting guns and violence for the rednecks; deregulating and allowing the corrupt, old white boy network to prosper; giving Republicans whatever they want if they just shut up; and appeasing the foreign interests that pay his bills and help his business interests. Why not? The liberals are a bunch of p@ssies who couldn't even remove him from office with blatant illegal conduct, couldn't even get him under oath. F them.

So, we need things like the Mattis response and pushback by ANY Republican of conscience, corporate America, and the dogged determination of the protesters on the street (not the vandals) because I think we are standing up for something much more ominous than we know and sending a message that very may well save the Republic.
May I recommend you step away from this board for couple of days. You are sounding a bit like someone hiding in a basement coming up with conspiracy theory. I doubt anyone else here will tell you that because of your political leanings, but if you do not believe me, please share what you wrote with your wife or your relatives. I apologize if that comes across as harsh but this is some Bizarro QAnon stuff.
Thanks for the concern.

I have in fact shared with family and friends. The "crazy" in writing this is thinking that posting it here will change anyone's mind and the waste of time it took to write it. I guess I find it cathartic and every once in a while these posts become op-eds that are posted in local papers. To be clear, I didn't say that THIS IS what is happening, I said that it is a real concern that it MIGHT be happening or attempted. But when in this president's term have worst case scenarios NOT played out to one degree or another? It seems only logical to anticipate his insanity rather than just react.

Nonetheless, I will take your advice and take the weekend off from the board. Take care.


How about your prior claim that the Republicans are welcoming a rebirth of the Third Reich?

I get disagreeing with policy and thinking Trump is a narcissist but trust me on this. If you want people to rethink based on your posting, tone down the crazy and hyperbole. And posting something crazy and then qualifying it by saying you are not saying it is happening but just something within realm of possibility is not really saying anything. This is kind of like the Clinton and pizza store stupidity. We have enough bad facts with Trump that we don't need to think about insane conspiracies.
sycasey
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1. If Trump hoped to gain a political advantage out of this "law and order" posturing, it's not working for him. Polls uniformly show voters disapproving of his response to the protests, by wide margins.

2. I have always kept in the back of my mind that Trump might try to stage an authoritarian military takeover in an act of desperation, but the responses from military commanders this week makes me think that won't work either. The police might be all-in on keeping Trump in charge, but the military is not. Here's where I also think some of Trump's prior actions (like his handling of COVID infections on Navy vessels) did not help him at all.

3. The Trump Administration thus far has not given me any sense that they actually plan things very far in advance.

So, you know, stay vigilant, but I don't consider this a likely possibility at the moment.
bearister
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I was seriously concerned about tRump flexing some dictator muscles to derail the Election...UNTIL...respected military men started turning on him. When my arch Conservative buddy that was a combat Marine in Vietnam turned on tRump I saw light at the end of the tunnel. Now it's tRump that is going to have to watch his own back if he pulls any fascist moves. He will be like the bully grabbed by the ear and thrown into the street.

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Anarchistbear
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Any self-respecting dictator would have used the Covid crisis to declare martial law. Trump sucks at fascism just like everything else.
going4roses
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Hiding in the basement w/ trumpy
LMK5
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blungld said:

Anarchistbear said:

I have an idea. Why don't the Democrat Mayors who have funded, outfitted and supported these police for decades do something?
Police unions.
Now the unions are bad? When did the 180 degree shift occur? Oh forget it I know the answer.
The truth lies somewhere between CNN and Fox.
calbear93
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going4roses said:

Hiding in the basement w/ trumpy
What? Honestly, does that make sense even to you?
sycasey
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LMK5 said:

blungld said:

Anarchistbear said:

I have an idea. Why don't the Democrat Mayors who have funded, outfitted and supported these police for decades do something?
Police unions.
Now the unions are bad? When did the 180 degree shift occur? Oh forget it I know the answer.
How do you know this is a shift? Did you know blungld's position on police unions before now?
going4roses
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Anarchistbear
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In poll 54% of Americans say burning down the Minneapolis police station was justified which puts it comfortably ahead of Biden and Trump

https://www.newsweek.com/54-americans-think-burning-down-minneapolis-police-precinct-was-justified-after-george-floyds-1508452?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true
calbear93
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Anarchistbear said:

In poll 54% of Americans say burning down the Minneapolis police station was justified which puts it comfortably ahead of Biden and Trump

https://www.newsweek.com/54-americans-think-burning-down-minneapolis-police-precinct-was-justified-after-george-floyds-1508452?amp=1&__twitter_impression=true
What they failed to mention was that it was a survey of 807 Antifa members, which the pollsters concluded was a reasonable accurate sampling of the population as a whole (yes, I am joking).

Another clear sign that we need protection from the tyranny of the majority (again mostly joking).

I think it is a very intense situation in the US and do not believe that poll, even if accurate reflects where we will be when cooler minds settle in. And I wonder how many of those people feel strongly enough that they would have thrown a Molotov cocktail at the station.
going4roses
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do you have any original thoughts of your own?

do you lack the capability/capacity to critically think for yourself?

okaydo
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See: It's hard to punish/get rid of the bad apples.


LMK5
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sycasey said:

LMK5 said:

blungld said:

Anarchistbear said:

I have an idea. Why don't the Democrat Mayors who have funded, outfitted and supported these police for decades do something?
Police unions.
Now the unions are bad? When did the 180 degree shift occur? Oh forget it I know the answer.
How do you know this is a shift? Did you know blungld's position on police unions before now?
I don't know about him in particular, but the regressive folks on here--another words, 95% of the members--are clearly pro-union unless I'm going crazy.
The truth lies somewhere between CNN and Fox.
Big C
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blungld said:

Watching things play out, and the degree to which the protest "control" is stoked by the enforcement strategies, the use of completely unnecessary violence, and the glee in inflicting power and personal animus of many the police/military efforts, it's hard not to speculate about a bigger picture this is serving.

Is all of this a dry run?

There is no peacekeeping here. There is no conversation taking place between the president and the American people. There is no progress or response to the people he has taken an oath to serve (rather than himself). This is NOT simply protecting shop windows. This is straight silencing of civil disobedience and punishing protest. So what is really going on?

Is the intention here to create more divide between enforcement and the citizens--to inflame and make sure each see the other as the enemy? To create true ill will between them, one armed, the other unarmed, so that when called upon again it already begins at a higher pitch and the two parties will be more focused on revenge and less focused on why they are in conflict or who is pitting them against one another? To get Americans used to fighting one another--for it to lose shock value between those administrating the beatings and those watching and reporting the beatings?

Is this a loyalty test to see who in enforcement is willing to turn against fellow Americans, who can be counted on to follow ANY order and who will turn on the president (weed them out now)? Is Trump trying to further stoke his base, get them itching to jump in with their guns and side with enforcement and show those Libs a real lesson, maybe start shooting at fellow Americans themselves and take matters into their own hands (no accountability to Trump, no orders, just Americans killing all on their own)?

Is this the next step in the white supremacy boards and conspiracy sites he makes cryptic nods to and that have grown in paranoia and fervor even though THEIR man is in charge--somehow the enemy is even more of a threat--and is he selling them that he is the savior, the coming of the white national Christian revolution and it needs to be bloody against this Deep State as is God's plan (you know, Jesus LOVES military and killing and dictators).

Is he checking how far he can push Republicans, what they will still tolerate and not speak against, and to what limits he can push the courts on the extent of presidential authority, and how well he can amass an un-identified, un-uniformed, un-traceable, un-recorded secret army (finally his own brownshirts and SS) to do the real brutish dirty work and trigger violence and force obedience? What can the likes of Barr and Miller and the rest do to keep him in power no matter what?

I think there is a very good chance that what we are watching is far darker and far more planned than we think.

I am afraid this will subside the next few weeks, underneath it will still boil, but Americans will get pulled back into concerns of the virus, the stress of daily lives, and the upcoming election without knowing we just saw the dress rehearsal for Trump's re-election strategy and what will be his attempt at the takeover by a military state into the authoritarian regime he has fantasized about and planned for since day one of his oath.

I believe that with the crimes he and his cohorts have already committed and the dirty deals they have struck he simply CAN NOT lose control of the government or he will lose everything. This is him surveying how difficult it will be to not leave office. And if I was as screwed up as him, I would have to be encouraged by the results thus far and how many are okay with the violence and will still stand with him or be silent NO MATTER WHAT.

If I were him, I would conclude that a takeover is worth a shot. I would see no reason to honor the election results, follow any law, or care one lick about anyone other than myself--which has always been his operating instructions any way. His base literally believes everything he says even when they are straight out lies that could not be easier to show as lies. He owns truth so why not just keep tossing tax breaks to the rich; hoisting patriotic (I hugged a flag!) and religious (I lifted a Bible!) symbols for the gullible loyalists; permitting guns and violence for the rednecks; deregulating and allowing the corrupt, old white boy network to prosper; giving Republicans whatever they want if they just shut up; and appeasing the foreign interests that pay his bills and help his business interests. Why not? The liberals are a bunch of p@ssies who couldn't even remove him from office with blatant illegal conduct, couldn't even get him under oath. F them.

So, we need things like the Mattis response and pushback by ANY Republican of conscience, corporate America, and the dogged determination of the protesters on the street (not the vandals) because I think we are standing up for something much more ominous than we know and sending a message that very may well save the Republic.

This is not my take at all. Trump seems 100% reactive and not the least bit an elaborate planner. Furthermore, his closest allies seem more about amassing billions rather than engineering a right-wing military coup... and what you are suggesting seems bad for business.
calbear93
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LMK5 said:

sycasey said:

LMK5 said:

blungld said:

Anarchistbear said:

I have an idea. Why don't the Democrat Mayors who have funded, outfitted and supported these police for decades do something?
Police unions.
Now the unions are bad? When did the 180 degree shift occur? Oh forget it I know the answer.
How do you know this is a shift? Did you know blungld's position on police unions before now?
I don't know about him in particular, but the regressive folks on here--another words, 95% of the members--are clearly pro-union unless I'm going crazy.
Completely understandable why you are confused. It went from you asking why Democrats who are generally for unions have failed to fix the police department when they have been in charge to somehow you saying this is the position of blungld. Typical sleight of hand.
calbear93
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going4roses said:

do you have any original thoughts of your own?

do you lack the capability/capacity to critically think for yourself?


You have to be joking. Maybe I can post some Youtube posts that inflame racial divide to show original thought. Clearly you are a critical thinker and communicator. I do admire your OH SO ORIGINAL thoughts on this board.

And glad you stated "capability/capacity" because that optionality was so critical to your original thought expressed in your post.

You are awesome!
okaydo
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Anarchistbear said:

blungld said:

Anarchistbear said:

I have an idea. Why don't the Democrat Mayors who have funded, outfitted and supported these police for decades do something?
Police unions.


Total nonsense and and a lame partisan excuse because it implies they would do something if it weren't for these unions but there is no evidence of that. They are elected officials and responsible for staffing, budgeting and controlling the police. The fact is they will take the union's money and give them what they want because it's good for their careers and if their marginal citizens suffer, who cares?





Unit2Sucks
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blungld the level of cooperation/planning/communication/strategy you are hinting at here is so far beyond possible that I don't know how you could even propose it.

There are certainly elements of this in different places, but there is no central coordination. Trump exhorted Governors to use be brutal in their efforts to put down protests - that's the extent of it. I don't think he was that influential because governors don't really care what he says most of the time.

What's probably going on here is a mixture of genuine fear from officers, lack of training, lack of capability and a lot of the stuff LunchTime mentioned in his recent post.

There is roughly zero chance that this is Trump or anyone else big braining this stuff.
Anarchistbear
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Okay do. That's a trivial twitter pissing match

Who is responsible the use of tear gas, rubber bullets? Who is responsible for the rules of engagement? Who is responsible for what equipment is deployed? Who is responsible for use of choke holds, etc. Who is responsible for whether battle gear is worn? You may answer the police but the idea that these are solely police decisions that can't be challenged or changed by public officials or the public because of police unions is nonsense.

Just wait.
sycasey
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LMK5 said:

sycasey said:

LMK5 said:

blungld said:

Anarchistbear said:

I have an idea. Why don't the Democrat Mayors who have funded, outfitted and supported these police for decades do something?
Police unions.
Now the unions are bad? When did the 180 degree shift occur? Oh forget it I know the answer.
How do you know this is a shift? Did you know blungld's position on police unions before now?
I don't know about him in particular, but the regressive folks on here--another words, 95% of the members--are clearly pro-union unless I'm going crazy.
1. I'm not sure if you have actually been paying attention to people's views here.

2. Even if a person is generally "pro union" (they support workers' rights to organize), that does not automatically extend to support for everything every union does. I don't think anyone ever said unions were perfect. I'm generally in favor of more worker unions, but during the last BART strike I argued against the union because I didn't think they had presented a strong enough argument for why such a massive disruption to the region's transportation was necessary.
calbear93
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okaydo said:

See: It's hard to punish/get rid of the bad apples.



Why is this resignation bad? If they don't want to clean up their own house, I say "Bye Felicia".
sycasey
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calbear93 said:

okaydo said:

See: It's hard to punish/get rid of the bad apples.



Why is this resignation bad? If they don't want to clean up their own house, I say "Bye Felicia".
I agree with that. Good riddance.

I think what this also shows is that the problems go well beyond "a few bad apples." There are a lot of apples who seemed to like having the bad ones around.
Anarchistbear
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"Minneapolis officials announced an agreement to immediately ban the use of chokeholds and strangleholds on Friday

Officials also announced a duty for officers to intervene and report any use of unauthorized force, according to an agreement between city and state officials."

See, it's not that hard.
AunBear89
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Anarchistbear said:

"Minneapolis officials announced an agreement to immediately ban the use of chokeholds and strangleholds on Friday

Officials also announced a duty for officers to intervene and report any use of unauthorized force, according to an agreement between city and state officials."

See, it's not that hard.


Oh, well, everything's fixed! Nothing to see here. Move along...

Are you REALLY that naive?
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- (maybe) Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
Anarchistbear
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AunBear89 said:

Anarchistbear said:

"Minneapolis officials announced an agreement to immediately ban the use of chokeholds and strangleholds on Friday

Officials also announced a duty for officers to intervene and report any use of unauthorized force, according to an agreement between city and state officials."

See, it's not that hard.


Oh, well, everything's fixed! Nothing to see here. Move along...

Are you REALLY that naive?


No.. we still need a few more murders before the Democrats take action but it's a start.
sycasey
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For many, many years, American voters of both stripes wanted "tough on crime" policies. This is somewhat understandable, given how much crime rates had soared in the 70s and 80s. People who came of age in those years wanted more policing. This also gave police unions and departments heavy political power they could wield over mayors, governors, and legislatures, resulting in the current situation where police officers are basically unaccountable for their actions.

Crime rates are way down now, but we still have a police force that is armed to the teeth and trained to be afraid of everyone, as though Americans were still living in crime-infested hellholes. Such resources are probably not justified anymore, but to give government the political will to change things they had to see public opinion turn solidly against the police. Amazingly, that seems to be happening now . . . the cops just couldn't stop assaulting people while on camera.
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