NoMask4Me is killing us and it is 100% on Trump.

1,362 Views | 45 Replies | Last: 6 days ago by Matthew Patel
Big C
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So many people refusing to wear masks is killing thousands of us, literally, and it is 100% on Donald Trump.

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. For the "individual liberties" crowd? That would've been easy to handle: "The government isn't requiring you to wear masks. But we don't REQUIRE you to stand for the National Anthem or the Pledge of Allegiance, but you do it because you love and respect our country. This is the same thing. You don't wear a mask to protect yourself; you do it to protect your fellow Americans. The science has proven the value in this. Okay, we flubbed it at first, but hey, everybody makes mistakes. Now let's get it right. So wear a mask as an act of patriotism. I will be doing it because I love America... and I expect you will do the same." Done.

That idiot lady at the city council meeting in Florida that we've all seen on the Internet, she didn't come up with this stuff on her own. She got it from Trump, who passed it down through the conspiracy nuts and probably through her ignorant pastor. God? Give me a break: God helps those who help themselves. Our Creator gave us brains for a reason. When mankind developed "science", God smiled down on us, proudly. He sent us the coronavirus (He is omnipotent, remember.) because he was seeing hints that we were no longer using the brains he blessed us with and wanted to test us. (Full disclosure, I am an agnostic, but that is the way that lady and her ilk could/should be thinking. Sorry if this part offended anybody.)

When a President willfully and knowingly pursues a course of action that costs thousands of lives, with no reason for it other than his stubbornness and political gain, is that not a crime? If not, then somebody explain to my why not, because to me, it looks like a crime against humanity.

End of rant. Lock him up.
Unit2Sucks
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You have to wonder why killing thousands of Americans could be in Trump's perceived political interests. Maybe enough people will finally figure out that if he can't even figure out what is in his own personal interests, he really is the moron everyone else (including all of his former associates once they are no longer beholden to him) says.

Too bad for all of us that Trump was too dumb to realize all he had to do to sail to victory is to say COVID was an enemy that we all had to rally together against and that if we did our best, wore masks, and listened to public health experts, we would save millions of lives.

Instead he shoots himself in the face a few days a week and is down 10+ points to a guy who has gone into hiding because he knows Trump can't help himself.
BearForce2
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Be like me.
blungld
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Big C said:

...somebody explain to my why not, because to me, it looks like a crime against humanity.
Looks like it to me too.

And for reasons that are beyond me, his supporters just mesh everything he does together and excuses it as Trumpism and something to be defended against the Libs instead of any consequence for his criminality and ineptitude.

They like his "policies" as if this vague cop out covers the bases of the destruction of the office and nation. What are these great "policies"? Looking the other way? Stonewalling any investigation and packing the administration and courts with co-conspirators? Great policies. The man barely has a handle on any of the forces at work in the country or world--there is no carefully thought through positions. He is not enacting "policy, " he is simply rewarding donors and loyalists and letting them dictate what he does while he golfs, watches TV, rants at press and rally, and lines his pocket. There is no think tank and bouncing around amazing ideas that emerge on the basis of merit after pages of research and well-considered positions. He sits on a toilet and tweets and just follows his substantial gut on what the most malleable low-information voters want to hear. Spectacular governance.

It's funny that the GOP hates (oh, I am sorry they don't hate America) the government whenever a Democrat is in charge, but LOVE it under what will go down as the worst president in history. They have fantastic taste in governments.

And still, after being lied to for four years, they believe the emotions that come out of his mouth (because the words are undecipherable) more than any actual actions. He can say I am protecting health care the same day he files actions to destroy health care, and they believe him. it's a scary study in blind loyalty and Cognitive Dissonance.

But again, they don't hate America they just want to destroy it. Like the wife-beater who says he loves his spouse, all the GOP really knows is how to control, not how to love.
BearForce2
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blungld said:


But again, they don't hate America they just want to destroy it. Like the wife-beater who says he loves his spouse, all the GOP really knows is how to control, not how to love.


You want the GOP or the wife beater to love you?
blungld
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BearForce2 said:

blungld said:


But again, they don't hate America they just want to destroy it. Like the wife-beater who says he loves his spouse, all the GOP really knows is how to control, not how to love.


You want the GOP or the wife beater to love you?

I want you to love me.
BearForce2
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blungld said:

BearForce2 said:

blungld said:


But again, they don't hate America they just want to destroy it. Like the wife-beater who says he loves his spouse, all the GOP really knows is how to control, not how to love.


You want the GOP or the wife beater to love you?

I want you to love me.
Please ask God
blungld
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BearForce2 said:

blungld said:

I want you to love me.
Please ask God

Garou
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blungld said:

Big C said:

...somebody explain to my why not, because to me, it looks like a crime against humanity.
Looks like it to me too.

And for reasons that are beyond me, his supporters just mesh everything he does together and excuses it as Trumpism and something to be defended against the Libs instead of any consequence for his criminality and ineptitude.

They like his "policies" as if this vague cop out covers the bases of the destruction of the office and nation. What are these great "policies"? Looking the other way? Stonewalling any investigation and packing the administration and courts with co-conspirators? Great policies. The man barely has a handle on any of the forces at work in the country or world--there is no carefully thought through positions. He is not enacting "policy, " he is simply rewarding donors and loyalists and letting them dictate what he does while he golfs, watches TV, rants at press and rally, and lines his pocket. There is no think tank and bouncing around amazing ideas that emerge on the basis of merit after pages of research and well-considered positions. He sits on a toilet and tweets and just follows his substantial gut on what the most malleable low-information voters want to hear. Spectacular governance.

It's funny that the GOP hates (oh, I am sorry they don't hate America) the government whenever a Democrat is in charge, but LOVE it under what will go down as the worst president in history. They have fantastic taste in governments.

And still, after being lied to for four years, they believe the emotions that come out of his mouth (because the words are undecipherable) more than any actual actions. He can say I am protecting health care the same day he files actions to destroy health care, and they believe him. it's a scary study in blind loyalty and Cognitive Dissonance.

But again, they don't hate America they just want to destroy it. Like the wife-beater who says he loves his spouse, all the GOP really knows is how to control, not how to love.
I guess this isn't you talking down to people again.
blungld
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Garou said:

blungld said:

Big C said:

...somebody explain to my why not, because to me, it looks like a crime against humanity.
Looks like it to me too.

And for reasons that are beyond me, his supporters just mesh everything he does together and excuses it as Trumpism and something to be defended against the Libs instead of any consequence for his criminality and ineptitude.

They like his "policies" as if this vague cop out covers the bases of the destruction of the office and nation. What are these great "policies"? Looking the other way? Stonewalling any investigation and packing the administration and courts with co-conspirators? Great policies. The man barely has a handle on any of the forces at work in the country or world--there is no carefully thought through positions. He is not enacting "policy, " he is simply rewarding donors and loyalists and letting them dictate what he does while he golfs, watches TV, rants at press and rally, and lines his pocket. There is no think tank and bouncing around amazing ideas that emerge on the basis of merit after pages of research and well-considered positions. He sits on a toilet and tweets and just follows his substantial gut on what the most malleable low-information voters want to hear. Spectacular governance.

It's funny that the GOP hates (oh, I am sorry they don't hate America) the government whenever a Democrat is in charge, but LOVE it under what will go down as the worst president in history. They have fantastic taste in governments.

And still, after being lied to for four years, they believe the emotions that come out of his mouth (because the words are undecipherable) more than any actual actions. He can say I am protecting health care the same day he files actions to destroy health care, and they believe him. it's a scary study in blind loyalty and Cognitive Dissonance.

But again, they don't hate America they just want to destroy it. Like the wife-beater who says he loves his spouse, all the GOP really knows is how to control, not how to love.
I guess this isn't you talking down to people again.
I didn't claim that I do or do not talk down to people. So why don't you just state your opinion that you think I talk down to people? Instead, like so many on this board, you put your opinion in sarcasm and made up a claim that you tried to put in my mouth.

It seems that your approach and many on the right is to avoid stating an affirmative position (I don't know how many times my questions go unanswered when I ask what exactly is your position), instead you act like it is a position to simply be snarky or criticize someone else's position. Just attacking and "mocking" liberals is not actually standing for anything.

Do my rants get preachy? Probably. Do my frustrations and fears add urgency to what I write? Yes. Do I think that I am often arguing against really simplistic propaganda instead of an earnest, logically held position? All the time.

But perhaps you thinking that my posts are talking down, suggests that you are looking up at them? Perhaps that would give you an insight that you are being defensive and some part of you knows that I am at least partially right and that I stand on the high ground and all you have is the ability to try and pull me (and by me I mean those who are fighting against what is happening under Trump) down to your base, tribal level? No thanks. Maybe your concern should be less who is talking down to you, and more why aren't I standing shoulder to shoulder with them.
calbear93
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Big C said:

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. .

How do you feel about politicians and healthcare professionals who promoted large crowd protests in the midst of a pandemic? Did that not make it political?

No doubt that Trump was way over his head and still remains completely unable to address anything beyond tweeting. However, it seems like we screwed this up at every level and every single opportunity.

We all made this political because we think primarily along political lines. ABOUT EVERYTHING. And then each side blames the other side for making it political.

I hope you see why your post is also wrapping this around politics.
Big C
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calbear93 said:

Big C said:

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. .

How do you feel about politicians and healthcare professionals who promoted large crowd protests in the midst of a pandemic? Did that not make it political?

No doubt that Trump was way over his head and still remains completely unable to address anything beyond tweeting. However, it seems like we screwed this up at every level and every single opportunity.

We all made this political because we think primarily along political lines. ABOUT EVERYTHING. And then each side blames the other side for making it political.

I hope you see why your post is also wrapping this around politics.

apples and oranges

No, I don't see how my post was also wrapping this around politics. Most everything in a society or an organization has a political element, but something as fundamental (we know now) as wearing masks in a pandemic didn't need to be like this.

I will say that participating in this forum has taught me about new terms that I didn't know as little as a year ago. In this case, "whataboutism". We may need to agree to disagree about this particular issue.
calbear93
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Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. .

How do you feel about politicians and healthcare professionals who promoted large crowd protests in the midst of a pandemic? Did that not make it political?

No doubt that Trump was way over his head and still remains completely unable to address anything beyond tweeting. However, it seems like we screwed this up at every level and every single opportunity.

We all made this political because we think primarily along political lines. ABOUT EVERYTHING. And then each side blames the other side for making it political.

I hope you see why your post is also wrapping this around politics.

apples and oranges

No, I don't see how my post was also wrapping this around politics. Most everything in a society or an organization has a political element, but something as fundamental (we know now) as wearing masks in a pandemic didn't need to be like this.

I will say that participating in this forum has taught me about new terms that I didn't know as little as a year ago. In this case, "whataboutism". We may need to agree to disagree about this particular issue.
It is not whataboutism. It is missing the point that even something like a pandemic will become political because we are no longer able to think about anything in a non-political sense. For example, while there was massive failure at every level, reading this board and your post would make it seem like it is a non-political viewpoint to blame only the White House and Republican governors for the failure to contain this. No mention other than from Republicans and Yogi about how Cuomo's and De Blasio's failures or the overly burdensome restrictions from the Democratc/Republican states that shut everything down without rhyme or reason leading to many to react illogically (e.g., wear the ****ing masks, you idiots) as a reaction added to this problem Or the healthcare professionals or liberal leaders who promoted people to go out there an protest in large groups - do you think that hurts their effectiveness in now promoting people to wear masks? Did they add to this problem?. Think about what you pointed out in your post regarding failures to contain this. Who did you blame, and how was that not misleading as a result of omissions of those who many lean your way politically?
Matthew Patel
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blungld said:

Garou said:

blungld said:

Big C said:

...somebody explain to my why not, because to me, it looks like a crime against humanity.
Looks like it to me too.

And for reasons that are beyond me, his supporters just mesh everything he does together and excuses it as Trumpism and something to be defended against the Libs instead of any consequence for his criminality and ineptitude.

They like his "policies" as if this vague cop out covers the bases of the destruction of the office and nation. What are these great "policies"? Looking the other way? Stonewalling any investigation and packing the administration and courts with co-conspirators? Great policies. The man barely has a handle on any of the forces at work in the country or world--there is no carefully thought through positions. He is not enacting "policy, " he is simply rewarding donors and loyalists and letting them dictate what he does while he golfs, watches TV, rants at press and rally, and lines his pocket. There is no think tank and bouncing around amazing ideas that emerge on the basis of merit after pages of research and well-considered positions. He sits on a toilet and tweets and just follows his substantial gut on what the most malleable low-information voters want to hear. Spectacular governance.

It's funny that the GOP hates (oh, I am sorry they don't hate America) the government whenever a Democrat is in charge, but LOVE it under what will go down as the worst president in history. They have fantastic taste in governments.

And still, after being lied to for four years, they believe the emotions that come out of his mouth (because the words are undecipherable) more than any actual actions. He can say I am protecting health care the same day he files actions to destroy health care, and they believe him. it's a scary study in blind loyalty and Cognitive Dissonance.

But again, they don't hate America they just want to destroy it. Like the wife-beater who says he loves his spouse, all the GOP really knows is how to control, not how to love.
I guess this isn't you talking down to people again.
I didn't claim that I do or do not talk down to people. So why don't you just state your opinion that you think I talk down to people?
I did. You said it just weren't so.

https://bearinsider.com/forums/6/topics/95702/replies/1768002
Unit2Sucks
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calbear93 said:

Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. .

How do you feel about politicians and healthcare professionals who promoted large crowd protests in the midst of a pandemic? Did that not make it political?

No doubt that Trump was way over his head and still remains completely unable to address anything beyond tweeting. However, it seems like we screwed this up at every level and every single opportunity.

We all made this political because we think primarily along political lines. ABOUT EVERYTHING. And then each side blames the other side for making it political.

I hope you see why your post is also wrapping this around politics.

apples and oranges

No, I don't see how my post was also wrapping this around politics. Most everything in a society or an organization has a political element, but something as fundamental (we know now) as wearing masks in a pandemic didn't need to be like this.

I will say that participating in this forum has taught me about new terms that I didn't know as little as a year ago. In this case, "whataboutism". We may need to agree to disagree about this particular issue.
It is not whataboutism. It is missing the point that even something like a pandemic will become political because we are no longer able to think about anything in a non-political sense. For example, while there was massive failure at every level, reading this board and your post would make it seem like it is a non-political viewpoint to blame only the White House and Republican governors for the failure to contain this. No mention other than from Republicans and Yogi about how Cuomo's and De Blasio's failures or the overly burdensome restrictions from the Democratc/Republican states that shut everything down without rhyme or reason leading to many to react illogically (e.g., wear the ****ing masks, you idiots) as a reaction added to this problem Or the healthcare professionals or liberal leaders who promoted people to go out there an protest in large groups - do you think that hurts their effectiveness in now promoting people to wear masks? Did they add to this problem?. Think about what you pointed out in your post regarding failures to contain this. Who did you blame, and how was that not misleading as a result of omissions of those who many lean your way politically?



I keep seeing this claim that no one criticized DeBlasio and Cuomo but that's not supported by the facts. There were certainly some defenders of Cuomo (like NYCGB) but I don't know if anyone defended DeB and there were quite a few of us who went after both of them. After a terrible start, Cuomo at least took action and stood up and talked intelligibly about the crisis every day for a few months and used his voice to encourage his constituents to do the right thing.

As for the pandemic spread impacts of the protests, I mentioned at one point that it was a problem and was criticized by at least one conservative poster for my concern. I don't understand why public health experts went out of their way to say the long term public health benefits of the protests would outweigh the short term risks given that the risks were much more certain and quantifiable. We haven't quite seen the resulting spread the way we have in states that have let their guard down generally, but I assume we will.

I have no trouble acknowledging places that have done well and those that have done poorly, regardless of the political party of their leadership. I even credit DeSantis for not letting COVID patients return to nursing homes, if for nothing else he has done.

When it comes down to it, the problem is not just that Democrats or Republicans differ in their views on how to combat the virus, it's the fact that we have a relatively weak civic culture and cannot rely on people to follow public health best practices unless they are given the force of law. This is obviously regional, as some do better than others, but when you look across the country it's quite clear that you can't count on enough Americans to do the right thing for our society unless it happens to be in their perceived short term interests. I would love to be proved wrong but the signs aren't encouraging so far.
calbear93
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Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. .

How do you feel about politicians and healthcare professionals who promoted large crowd protests in the midst of a pandemic? Did that not make it political?

No doubt that Trump was way over his head and still remains completely unable to address anything beyond tweeting. However, it seems like we screwed this up at every level and every single opportunity.

We all made this political because we think primarily along political lines. ABOUT EVERYTHING. And then each side blames the other side for making it political.

I hope you see why your post is also wrapping this around politics.

apples and oranges

No, I don't see how my post was also wrapping this around politics. Most everything in a society or an organization has a political element, but something as fundamental (we know now) as wearing masks in a pandemic didn't need to be like this.

I will say that participating in this forum has taught me about new terms that I didn't know as little as a year ago. In this case, "whataboutism". We may need to agree to disagree about this particular issue.
It is not whataboutism. It is missing the point that even something like a pandemic will become political because we are no longer able to think about anything in a non-political sense. For example, while there was massive failure at every level, reading this board and your post would make it seem like it is a non-political viewpoint to blame only the White House and Republican governors for the failure to contain this. No mention other than from Republicans and Yogi about how Cuomo's and De Blasio's failures or the overly burdensome restrictions from the Democratc/Republican states that shut everything down without rhyme or reason leading to many to react illogically (e.g., wear the ****ing masks, you idiots) as a reaction added to this problem Or the healthcare professionals or liberal leaders who promoted people to go out there an protest in large groups - do you think that hurts their effectiveness in now promoting people to wear masks? Did they add to this problem?. Think about what you pointed out in your post regarding failures to contain this. Who did you blame, and how was that not misleading as a result of omissions of those who many lean your way politically?



I keep seeing this claim that no one criticized DeBlasio and Cuomo but that's not supported by the facts. There were certainly some defenders of Cuomo (like NYCGB) but I don't know if anyone defended DeB and there were quite a few of us who went after both of them. After a terrible start, Cuomo at least took action and stood up and talked intelligibly about the crisis every day for a few months and used his voice to encourage his constituents to do the right thing.

As for the pandemic spread impacts of the protests, I mentioned at one point that it was a problem and was criticized by at least one conservative poster for my concern. I don't understand why public health experts went out of their way to say the long term public health benefits of the protests would outweigh the short term risks given that the risks were much more certain and quantifiable. We haven't quite seen the resulting spread the way we have in states that have let their guard down generally, but I assume we will.

I have no trouble acknowledging places that have done well and those that have done poorly, regardless of the political party of their leadership. I even credit DeSantis for not letting COVID patients return to nursing homes, if for nothing else he has done.

When it comes down to it, the problem is not just that Democrats or Republicans differ in their views on how to combat the virus, it's the fact that we have a relatively weak civic culture and cannot rely on people to follow public health best practices unless they are given the force of law. This is obviously regional, as some do better than others, but when you look across the country it's quite clear that you can't count on enough Americans to do the right thing for our society unless it happens to be in their perceived short term interests. I would love to be proved wrong but the signs aren't encouraging so far.


Agree completely.
Matthew Patel
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Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. .

How do you feel about politicians and healthcare professionals who promoted large crowd protests in the midst of a pandemic? Did that not make it political?

No doubt that Trump was way over his head and still remains completely unable to address anything beyond tweeting. However, it seems like we screwed this up at every level and every single opportunity.

We all made this political because we think primarily along political lines. ABOUT EVERYTHING. And then each side blames the other side for making it political.

I hope you see why your post is also wrapping this around politics.

apples and oranges

No, I don't see how my post was also wrapping this around politics. Most everything in a society or an organization has a political element, but something as fundamental (we know now) as wearing masks in a pandemic didn't need to be like this.

I will say that participating in this forum has taught me about new terms that I didn't know as little as a year ago. In this case, "whataboutism". We may need to agree to disagree about this particular issue.
It is not whataboutism. It is missing the point that even something like a pandemic will become political because we are no longer able to think about anything in a non-political sense. For example, while there was massive failure at every level, reading this board and your post would make it seem like it is a non-political viewpoint to blame only the White House and Republican governors for the failure to contain this. No mention other than from Republicans and Yogi about how Cuomo's and De Blasio's failures or the overly burdensome restrictions from the Democratc/Republican states that shut everything down without rhyme or reason leading to many to react illogically (e.g., wear the ****ing masks, you idiots) as a reaction added to this problem Or the healthcare professionals or liberal leaders who promoted people to go out there an protest in large groups - do you think that hurts their effectiveness in now promoting people to wear masks? Did they add to this problem?. Think about what you pointed out in your post regarding failures to contain this. Who did you blame, and how was that not misleading as a result of omissions of those who many lean your way politically?



I keep seeing this claim that no one criticized DeBlasio and Cuomo but that's not supported by the facts. There were certainly some defenders of Cuomo (like NYCGB) but I don't know if anyone defended DeB and there were quite a few of us who went after both of them. After a terrible start, Cuomo at least took action and stood up and talked intelligibly about the crisis every day for a few months and used his voice to encourage his constituents to do the right thing.
And is still looking to slash Medicaid in his state to this very day.

Quote:

As for the pandemic spread impacts of the protests, I mentioned at one point that it was a problem and was criticized by at least one conservative poster for my concern. I don't understand why public health experts went out of their way to say the long term public health benefits of the protests would outweigh the short term risks given that the risks were much more certain and quantifiable.
Well, there is the part where black people are much more likely to survive an encounter with the virus than they are to survive an encounter with the police.
Big C
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calbear93 said:

Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. .

How do you feel about politicians and healthcare professionals who promoted large crowd protests in the midst of a pandemic? Did that not make it political?

No doubt that Trump was way over his head and still remains completely unable to address anything beyond tweeting. However, it seems like we screwed this up at every level and every single opportunity.

We all made this political because we think primarily along political lines. ABOUT EVERYTHING. And then each side blames the other side for making it political.

I hope you see why your post is also wrapping this around politics.

apples and oranges

No, I don't see how my post was also wrapping this around politics. Most everything in a society or an organization has a political element, but something as fundamental (we know now) as wearing masks in a pandemic didn't need to be like this.

I will say that participating in this forum has taught me about new terms that I didn't know as little as a year ago. In this case, "whataboutism". We may need to agree to disagree about this particular issue.
It is not whataboutism. It is missing the point that even something like a pandemic will become political because we are no longer able to think about anything in a non-political sense. For example, while there was massive failure at every level, reading this board and your post would make it seem like it is a non-political viewpoint to blame only the White House and Republican governors for the failure to contain this. No mention other than from Republicans and Yogi about how Cuomo's and De Blasio's failures or the overly burdensome restrictions from the Democratc/Republican states that shut everything down without rhyme or reason leading to many to react illogically (e.g., wear the ****ing masks, you idiots) as a reaction added to this problem Or the healthcare professionals or liberal leaders who promoted people to go out there an protest in large groups - do you think that hurts their effectiveness in now promoting people to wear masks? Did they add to this problem?. Think about what you pointed out in your post regarding failures to contain this. Who did you blame, and how was that not misleading as a result of omissions of those who many lean your way politically?


For the general poor handling of COVID-19 in the US, there is blame to be handed out all over. I believe the masks issue on its own will cost thousands of lives and can be traced 100% to Trump, which is why I started this thread.
calbear93
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Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. .

How do you feel about politicians and healthcare professionals who promoted large crowd protests in the midst of a pandemic? Did that not make it political?

No doubt that Trump was way over his head and still remains completely unable to address anything beyond tweeting. However, it seems like we screwed this up at every level and every single opportunity.

We all made this political because we think primarily along political lines. ABOUT EVERYTHING. And then each side blames the other side for making it political.

I hope you see why your post is also wrapping this around politics.

apples and oranges

No, I don't see how my post was also wrapping this around politics. Most everything in a society or an organization has a political element, but something as fundamental (we know now) as wearing masks in a pandemic didn't need to be like this.

I will say that participating in this forum has taught me about new terms that I didn't know as little as a year ago. In this case, "whataboutism". We may need to agree to disagree about this particular issue.
It is not whataboutism. It is missing the point that even something like a pandemic will become political because we are no longer able to think about anything in a non-political sense. For example, while there was massive failure at every level, reading this board and your post would make it seem like it is a non-political viewpoint to blame only the White House and Republican governors for the failure to contain this. No mention other than from Republicans and Yogi about how Cuomo's and De Blasio's failures or the overly burdensome restrictions from the Democratc/Republican states that shut everything down without rhyme or reason leading to many to react illogically (e.g., wear the ****ing masks, you idiots) as a reaction added to this problem Or the healthcare professionals or liberal leaders who promoted people to go out there an protest in large groups - do you think that hurts their effectiveness in now promoting people to wear masks? Did they add to this problem?. Think about what you pointed out in your post regarding failures to contain this. Who did you blame, and how was that not misleading as a result of omissions of those who many lean your way politically?


For the general poor handling of COVID-19 in the US, there is blame to be handed out all over. I believe the masks issue on its own will cost thousands of lives and can be traced 100% to Trump, which is why I started this thread.


Yes, Trump is a huge part of the spread of misinformation relating to mask. But people in large numbers are not injecting themselves with disinfectant despite Trump. I think something as simple as masks are becoming political because healthcare professionals misled the public about masks in the beginning, credibility issues of those now promoting masks, and stupid misconception of what it means to be free. I wear a mask and social distance because wishful thinking is not going to make the pandemic go away and we cannot afford to shut down the economy.
Matthew Patel
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Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. .

How do you feel about politicians and healthcare professionals who promoted large crowd protests in the midst of a pandemic? Did that not make it political?

No doubt that Trump was way over his head and still remains completely unable to address anything beyond tweeting. However, it seems like we screwed this up at every level and every single opportunity.

We all made this political because we think primarily along political lines. ABOUT EVERYTHING. And then each side blames the other side for making it political.

I hope you see why your post is also wrapping this around politics.

apples and oranges

No, I don't see how my post was also wrapping this around politics. Most everything in a society or an organization has a political element, but something as fundamental (we know now) as wearing masks in a pandemic didn't need to be like this.

I will say that participating in this forum has taught me about new terms that I didn't know as little as a year ago. In this case, "whataboutism". We may need to agree to disagree about this particular issue.
It is not whataboutism. It is missing the point that even something like a pandemic will become political because we are no longer able to think about anything in a non-political sense. For example, while there was massive failure at every level, reading this board and your post would make it seem like it is a non-political viewpoint to blame only the White House and Republican governors for the failure to contain this. No mention other than from Republicans and Yogi about how Cuomo's and De Blasio's failures or the overly burdensome restrictions from the Democratc/Republican states that shut everything down without rhyme or reason leading to many to react illogically (e.g., wear the ****ing masks, you idiots) as a reaction added to this problem Or the healthcare professionals or liberal leaders who promoted people to go out there an protest in large groups - do you think that hurts their effectiveness in now promoting people to wear masks? Did they add to this problem?. Think about what you pointed out in your post regarding failures to contain this. Who did you blame, and how was that not misleading as a result of omissions of those who many lean your way politically?
For the general poor handling of COVID-19 in the US, there is blame to be handed out all over. I believe the masks issue on its own will cost thousands of lives and can be traced 100% to Trump, which is why I started this thread.
It isn't 100% about Trump, no matter how much you wish it was. If you think Mario Cuomo is blameless in his own state, you are in denial. If you think Gavin Newsom hasn't made a lot of missteps lately, you're in denial. If you don't think your Congress and Senate let you down, you're in denial.
Unit2Sucks
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calbear93 said:

Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. .

How do you feel about politicians and healthcare professionals who promoted large crowd protests in the midst of a pandemic? Did that not make it political?

No doubt that Trump was way over his head and still remains completely unable to address anything beyond tweeting. However, it seems like we screwed this up at every level and every single opportunity.

We all made this political because we think primarily along political lines. ABOUT EVERYTHING. And then each side blames the other side for making it political.

I hope you see why your post is also wrapping this around politics.

apples and oranges

No, I don't see how my post was also wrapping this around politics. Most everything in a society or an organization has a political element, but something as fundamental (we know now) as wearing masks in a pandemic didn't need to be like this.

I will say that participating in this forum has taught me about new terms that I didn't know as little as a year ago. In this case, "whataboutism". We may need to agree to disagree about this particular issue.
It is not whataboutism. It is missing the point that even something like a pandemic will become political because we are no longer able to think about anything in a non-political sense. For example, while there was massive failure at every level, reading this board and your post would make it seem like it is a non-political viewpoint to blame only the White House and Republican governors for the failure to contain this. No mention other than from Republicans and Yogi about how Cuomo's and De Blasio's failures or the overly burdensome restrictions from the Democratc/Republican states that shut everything down without rhyme or reason leading to many to react illogically (e.g., wear the ****ing masks, you idiots) as a reaction added to this problem Or the healthcare professionals or liberal leaders who promoted people to go out there an protest in large groups - do you think that hurts their effectiveness in now promoting people to wear masks? Did they add to this problem?. Think about what you pointed out in your post regarding failures to contain this. Who did you blame, and how was that not misleading as a result of omissions of those who many lean your way politically?


For the general poor handling of COVID-19 in the US, there is blame to be handed out all over. I believe the masks issue on its own will cost thousands of lives and can be traced 100% to Trump, which is why I started this thread.


Yes, Trump is a huge part of the spread of misinformation relating to mask. But people in large numbers are not injecting themselves with disinfectant despite Trump. I think something as simple as masks are becoming political because healthcare professionals misled the public about masks in the beginning, credibility issues of those now promoting masks, and stupid misconception of what it means to be free. I wear a mask and social distance because wishful thinking is not going to make the pandemic go away and we cannot afford to shut down the economy.
I agree that we cannot afford to "shut down the economy" but I would put it differently: we cannot avoid extending and prolonging damage to the economy while the pandemic is a significant threat to our population. The only tools we really have available are reduced mobility, social distancing and wearing masks. Wearing masks are the least burdensome to our economy but still present a meaningful inconvenience and disincentive to participation in our economy. So long as masks are advised, retail traffic will be reduced and the economy will suffer to some extent.

I've been banging this drum for a while so I won't belabor the point any more than this: I hope it's become apparent that pretending like COVID doesn't exist isn't going to fix the economy and that "reopening" the economy won't do it either. We need to meaningfully reduce the risk of COVID before the economy will return to any semblance of normal.
calbear93
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Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. .

How do you feel about politicians and healthcare professionals who promoted large crowd protests in the midst of a pandemic? Did that not make it political?

No doubt that Trump was way over his head and still remains completely unable to address anything beyond tweeting. However, it seems like we screwed this up at every level and every single opportunity.

We all made this political because we think primarily along political lines. ABOUT EVERYTHING. And then each side blames the other side for making it political.

I hope you see why your post is also wrapping this around politics.

apples and oranges

No, I don't see how my post was also wrapping this around politics. Most everything in a society or an organization has a political element, but something as fundamental (we know now) as wearing masks in a pandemic didn't need to be like this.

I will say that participating in this forum has taught me about new terms that I didn't know as little as a year ago. In this case, "whataboutism". We may need to agree to disagree about this particular issue.
It is not whataboutism. It is missing the point that even something like a pandemic will become political because we are no longer able to think about anything in a non-political sense. For example, while there was massive failure at every level, reading this board and your post would make it seem like it is a non-political viewpoint to blame only the White House and Republican governors for the failure to contain this. No mention other than from Republicans and Yogi about how Cuomo's and De Blasio's failures or the overly burdensome restrictions from the Democratc/Republican states that shut everything down without rhyme or reason leading to many to react illogically (e.g., wear the ****ing masks, you idiots) as a reaction added to this problem Or the healthcare professionals or liberal leaders who promoted people to go out there an protest in large groups - do you think that hurts their effectiveness in now promoting people to wear masks? Did they add to this problem?. Think about what you pointed out in your post regarding failures to contain this. Who did you blame, and how was that not misleading as a result of omissions of those who many lean your way politically?


For the general poor handling of COVID-19 in the US, there is blame to be handed out all over. I believe the masks issue on its own will cost thousands of lives and can be traced 100% to Trump, which is why I started this thread.


Yes, Trump is a huge part of the spread of misinformation relating to mask. But people in large numbers are not injecting themselves with disinfectant despite Trump. I think something as simple as masks are becoming political because healthcare professionals misled the public about masks in the beginning, credibility issues of those now promoting masks, and stupid misconception of what it means to be free. I wear a mask and social distance because wishful thinking is not going to make the pandemic go away and we cannot afford to shut down the economy.
I agree that we cannot afford to "shut down the economy" but I would put it differently: we cannot avoid extending and prolonging damage to the economy while the pandemic is a significant threat to our population. The only tools we really have available are reduced mobility, social distancing and wearing masks. Wearing masks are the least burdensome to our economy but still present a meaningful inconvenience and disincentive to participation in our economy. So long as masks are advised, retail traffic will be reduced and the economy will suffer to some extent.

I've been banging this drum for a while so I won't belabor the point any more than this: I hope it's become apparent that pretending like COVID doesn't exist isn't going to fix the economy and that "reopening" the economy won't do it either. We need to meaningfully reduce the risk of COVID before the economy will return to any semblance of normal.


Agree.
Matthew Patel
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Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:


Yes, Trump is a huge part of the spread of misinformation relating to mask. But people in large numbers are not injecting themselves with disinfectant despite Trump. I think something as simple as masks are becoming political because healthcare professionals misled the public about masks in the beginning, credibility issues of those now promoting masks, and stupid misconception of what it means to be free. I wear a mask and social distance because wishful thinking is not going to make the pandemic go away and we cannot afford to shut down the economy.
I agree that we cannot afford to "shut down the economy" but I would put it differently: we cannot avoid extending and prolonging damage to the economy while the pandemic is a significant threat to our population. The only tools we really have available are reduced mobility, social distancing and wearing masks. Wearing masks are the least burdensome to our economy but still present a meaningful inconvenience and disincentive to participation in our economy. So long as masks are advised, retail traffic will be reduced and the economy will suffer to some extent.

I've been banging this drum for a while so I won't belabor the point any more than this: I hope it's become apparent that pretending like COVID doesn't exist isn't going to fix the economy and that "reopening" the economy won't do it either. We need to meaningfully reduce the risk of COVID before the economy will return to any semblance of normal.
We have. It's called wearing masks, social distancing, and washing your hands. Which is why doctor's offices are now open.

If doctor's offices can be open (which by the way is where the sick people are) and you can go there without getting what they have, I think you can risk going back to your white collar jobs.
AunBear89
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Actually, doctor's offices don't want you anywhere near them if there is even a possibility you have Covid 19. So, that is NOT where the sick people are. I have a possible sprained foot. I called the doctor today to schedule an appointment. Before they would even open the appointment calendar, I got a list of questions about any Covid symptoms I might have. If I had answered yes to any of them, I would have gotten an appointment with the Crown Clinic, rather than with my doctor to look at my foot.

Corona is out there. It is highly contagious. At this rate, everyone is going to get it eventually. So even with the most optimistic (deluded) mortality rates, millions will get sick and hundreds of thousands will die.

But let's put faith in our fellow humans to do the right things - they've been doing such a great job so far.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." -- Benjamin Disraeli, popularized by Mark Twain
sycasey
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Unit2Sucks said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

calbear93 said:

Big C said:

Okay, in February, wearing masks seemed a little weird. Then, in March, we wanted the health care people to have them.

But by April, we KNEW the deal and it never needed to become political, except for Trump never wants to admit he made a mistake. .

How do you feel about politicians and healthcare professionals who promoted large crowd protests in the midst of a pandemic? Did that not make it political?

No doubt that Trump was way over his head and still remains completely unable to address anything beyond tweeting. However, it seems like we screwed this up at every level and every single opportunity.

We all made this political because we think primarily along political lines. ABOUT EVERYTHING. And then each side blames the other side for making it political.

I hope you see why your post is also wrapping this around politics.

apples and oranges

No, I don't see how my post was also wrapping this around politics. Most everything in a society or an organization has a political element, but something as fundamental (we know now) as wearing masks in a pandemic didn't need to be like this.

I will say that participating in this forum has taught me about new terms that I didn't know as little as a year ago. In this case, "whataboutism". We may need to agree to disagree about this particular issue.
It is not whataboutism. It is missing the point that even something like a pandemic will become political because we are no longer able to think about anything in a non-political sense. For example, while there was massive failure at every level, reading this board and your post would make it seem like it is a non-political viewpoint to blame only the White House and Republican governors for the failure to contain this. No mention other than from Republicans and Yogi about how Cuomo's and De Blasio's failures or the overly burdensome restrictions from the Democratc/Republican states that shut everything down without rhyme or reason leading to many to react illogically (e.g., wear the ****ing masks, you idiots) as a reaction added to this problem Or the healthcare professionals or liberal leaders who promoted people to go out there an protest in large groups - do you think that hurts their effectiveness in now promoting people to wear masks? Did they add to this problem?. Think about what you pointed out in your post regarding failures to contain this. Who did you blame, and how was that not misleading as a result of omissions of those who many lean your way politically?



I keep seeing this claim that no one criticized DeBlasio and Cuomo but that's not supported by the facts. There were certainly some defenders of Cuomo (like NYCGB) but I don't know if anyone defended DeB and there were quite a few of us who went after both of them. After a terrible start, Cuomo at least took action and stood up and talked intelligibly about the crisis every day for a few months and used his voice to encourage his constituents to do the right thing.

As for the pandemic spread impacts of the protests, I mentioned at one point that it was a problem and was criticized by at least one conservative poster for my concern. I don't understand why public health experts went out of their way to say the long term public health benefits of the protests would outweigh the short term risks given that the risks were much more certain and quantifiable. We haven't quite seen the resulting spread the way we have in states that have let their guard down generally, but I assume we will.

I have no trouble acknowledging places that have done well and those that have done poorly, regardless of the political party of their leadership. I even credit DeSantis for not letting COVID patients return to nursing homes, if for nothing else he has done.

When it comes down to it, the problem is not just that Democrats or Republicans differ in their views on how to combat the virus, it's the fact that we have a relatively weak civic culture and cannot rely on people to follow public health best practices unless they are given the force of law. This is obviously regional, as some do better than others, but when you look across the country it's quite clear that you can't count on enough Americans to do the right thing for our society unless it happens to be in their perceived short term interests. I would love to be proved wrong but the signs aren't encouraging so far.
Totally agreed: plenty of liberals here criticized DeBlasio and Cuomo for being slow to recognize the rising problem in New York City. Cuomo drew some praise for his handling of the situation after COVID had already exploded in his state, but still there was general agreement that he started poorly. It's simply not true that Democratic politicians draw no criticism from liberals here.

Secondly, I don't think public-health guidelines necessarily NEED the force of law to be effective . . . but the messaging from the top down has to be consistent at all levels of government, and it simply isn't. What is really needed here is a large-scale marketing campaign from the feds to the states to municipal governments, getting people to wear masks indoors and maintain social distancing (think something along the lines of the Depression/WW2 era public campaigns). Obviously this message has been inconsistent at various levels, sometimes from both Democrats and Republicans . . . though in my view, Republicans have been much less likely to take this thing seriously.

Finally, though he's not responsible for everything, Trump is the President, and his messaging has been awful. If he was out there every day, talking about wearing masks and generally amplifying the advice of his health experts, the message would have gotten through. If Democratic leaders delivered the same message on COVID then we'd have a large majority of the population voluntarily maintaining safety measures (and I think Democrats probably do go along with it, though some would probably argue we should be doing more). Instead Trump has allowed the conspiracy theories to run rampant and has made Republican leaders afraid to cross him. That's only exacerbated the partisan split, but of course . . . that's Trump's way. He doesn't have another game plan.
Matthew Patel
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AunBear89 said:

Actually, doctor's offices don't want you anywhere near them if there is even a possibility you have Covid 19.
How can you be sure? Maybe those people are asymptomatic. You don't know.
Matthew Patel
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AunBear89 said:

Actually, doctor's offices don't want you anywhere near them if there is even a possibility you have Covid 19. So, that is NOT where the sick people are. I have a possible sprained foot. I called the doctor today to schedule an appointment. Before they would even open the appointment calendar, I got a list of questions about any Covid symptoms I might have. If I had answered yes to any of them, I would have gotten an appointment with the Crown Clinic, rather than with my doctor to look at my foot.

Corona is out there. It is highly contagious. At this rate, everyone is going to get it eventually. So even with the most optimistic (deluded) mortality rates, millions will get sick and hundreds of thousands will die.

But let's put faith in our fellow humans to do the right things - they've been doing such a great job so far.


Like I said, anyone that wants to social distance from that guy is perfectly capable of doing so. And him getting sick doesn't concern me. He's taking his own chances.

But even so, there's a 95% chance he won't die even by not being careful, so he's likely to end up not getting sick. Much to your dismay.
Matthew Patel
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sycasey said:

Unit2Sucks said:


I keep seeing this claim that no one criticized DeBlasio and Cuomo but that's not supported by the facts. There were certainly some defenders of Cuomo (like NYCGB) but I don't know if anyone defended DeB and there were quite a few of us who went after both of them. After a terrible start, Cuomo at least took action and stood up and talked intelligibly about the crisis every day for a few months and used his voice to encourage his constituents to do the right thing.

He was using his voice to build support for him as a candidate for president, either in 2020 to replace Biden (or did you forget all the calls from the citizenry for that?) or in 2024. When you're trying to cut Medicaid in your state during a pandemic and you force sick COVID-19 patients into nursing homes with other non COVID-19 patients and a bunch of those non COVID-19 patients die, you're worse that a bad governor. You're a murderer.

But that is something that liberals do not want to confront.

Quote:

Quote:

Finally, though he's not responsible for everything, Trump is the President, and his messaging has been awful. If he was out there every day, talking about wearing masks and generally amplifying the advice of his health experts, the message would have gotten through. If Democratic leaders delivered the same message on COVID then we'd have a large majority of the population voluntarily maintaining safety measures (and I think Democrats probably do go along with it, though some would probably argue we should be doing more). Instead Trump has allowed the conspiracy theories to run rampant and has made Republican leaders afraid to cross him. That's only exacerbated the partisan split, but of course . . . that's Trump's way. He doesn't have another game plan.

Trump is the most responsible, but he's not 100% responsible. He's been horrible during the pandemic, but he was horrible before so that's hardly a surprise. But by letting your Congress and Senate off the hook and making it 100% Trump's fault, you're being flat out disingenuous.
sycasey
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Matthew Patel said:

Trump is the most responsible, but he's not 100% responsible. He's been horrible during the pandemic, but he was horrible before so that's hardly a surprise. But by letting your Congress and Senate off the hook and making it 100% Trump's fault, you're being flat out disingenuous.
Hey, good job cutting out the part of my post where I acknowledged that some Democratic leaders have been inconsistent too. Talk about disingenuous.
Matthew Patel
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sycasey said:

Matthew Patel said:

Trump is the most responsible, but he's not 100% responsible. He's been horrible during the pandemic, but he was horrible before so that's hardly a surprise. But by letting your Congress and Senate off the hook and making it 100% Trump's fault, you're being flat out disingenuous.
Hey, good job cutting out the part of my post where I acknowledged that some Democratic leaders have been inconsistent too. Talk about disingenuous.
It was cut out because I wasn't responding to those points. But since you apparently need some level of affirmation here:


Quote:

Totally agreed: plenty of liberals here criticized DeBlasio and Cuomo for being slow to recognize the rising problem in New York City. Cuomo drew some praise for his handling of the situation after COVID had already exploded in his state, but still there was general agreement that he started poorly. It's simply not true that Democratic politicians draw no criticism from liberals here.

Secondly, I don't think public-health guidelines necessarily NEED the force of law to be effective . . . but the messaging from the top down has to be consistent at all levels of government, and it simply isn't. What is really needed here is a large-scale marketing campaign from the feds to the states to municipal governments, getting people to wear masks indoors and maintain social distancing (think something along the lines of the Depression/WW2 era public campaigns). Obviously this message has been inconsistent at various levels, sometimes from both Democrats and Republicans . . . though in my view, Republicans have been much less likely to take this thing seriously.
What do you think about Cuomo trying to cut Medicaid funding in his state during a pandemic?

Agreed that there is no federal coordination on the messaging and Trump bears the brunt of responsibility for that issue. But just like sheriffs are refusing to enforce mask mandates, I don't doubt that some of these governors would resist enforcing federal measures for public health for varying reasons, but the biggest one being that angry citizens tend to not re-elect their governors.
sycasey
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Matthew Patel said:

It was cut out because I wasn't responding to those points. But since you apparently need some level of affirmation here:
I don't need affirmation, but I also don't need people misrepresenting my arguments. You said I was being disingenuous in claiming this was 100% Trump's fault, but I very specifically did NOT claim that.

Matthew Patel said:

What do you think about Cuomo trying to cut Medicaid funding in his state during a pandemic?
I don't know much about it and don't live in New York, so I have no strong opinion.

Looks like he thinks the rules attached to the feds' Medicaid funding are too onerous and would destroy his own state budget?

https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2020/03/27/cuomo-threatens-to-reject-67b-in-federal-aid-in-favor-of-medicaid-redesign-1269446

Not sure I buy Cuomo's argument here, but again, I don't know enough to be sure.

Matthew Patel said:

Agreed that there is no federal coordination on the messaging and Trump bears the brunt of responsibility for that issue. But just like sheriffs are refusing to enforce mask mandates, I don't doubt that some of these governors would resist enforcing federal measures for public health for varying reasons, but the biggest one being that angry citizens tend to not re-elect their governors.
Maybe. But again, if the President (and yes, Congressional leaders) are giving them cover then I don't think the public anger is there. Besides, I'm not even talking about enforcement. I'm talking about marketing. If you do it well, you make people want to wear masks voluntarily, and the ones who don't are small enough in number as to not make a big difference.
Matthew Patel
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sycasey said:

Matthew Patel said:

It was cut out because I wasn't responding to those points. But since you apparently need some level of affirmation here:
I don't need affirmation, but I also don't need people misrepresenting my arguments. You said I was being disingenuous in claiming this was 100% Trump's fault, but I very specifically did NOT claim that.

Matthew Patel said:

What do you think about Cuomo trying to cut Medicaid funding in his state during a pandemic?
I don't know much about it and don't live in New York, so I have no strong opinion.

Looks like he thinks the rules attached to the feds' Medicaid funding are too onerous and would destroy his own state budget?

https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2020/03/27/cuomo-threatens-to-reject-67b-in-federal-aid-in-favor-of-medicaid-redesign-1269446

Not sure I buy Cuomo's argument here, but again, I don't know enough to be sure.

Matthew Patel said:

Agreed that there is no federal coordination on the messaging and Trump bears the brunt of responsibility for that issue. But just like sheriffs are refusing to enforce mask mandates, I don't doubt that some of these governors would resist enforcing federal measures for public health for varying reasons, but the biggest one being that angry citizens tend to not re-elect their governors.
Maybe. But again, if the President (and yes, Congressional leaders) are giving them cover then I don't think the public anger is there. Besides, I'm not even talking about enforcement. I'm talking about marketing. If you do it well, you make people want to wear masks voluntarily, and the ones who don't are small enough in number as to not make a big difference.
But you DO need affirmation. I'm not responding to your words there. I'm responding to the person who wrote them. The subject of the thread is that Trump is 100% responsible. Am I not allowed to discuss the topic of the thread just because you need some affirmation that something you wrote wasn't 100% wrong? Must I blue star your response?

As for "not buying Cuomo's argument", good God man. Take a position on something for once. Stop hiding behind "I don't know" and search for the truth.

https://gothamist.com/news/cuomo-silent-taxing-ultrawealthy-while-pushing-billions-cuts-localities

As for your last point, since you simply can't stand me deleting anything that you write and not respond to it, the public was angry with their government before COVID-19. The public is now furious with their government. Not Trump. Not Republicans. Everybody. The public polling reflects it.

Would people wear masks voluntarily? Some would. But so many of our citizens believe in conspiracy theories and unsourced opinion based news that I have zero doubt that the same people who refuse to wear masks now would be refusing to wear them regardless. They'd just create some other justification for it. My concern is not that they refuse to wear masks because it's unenforceable. My concern is that we are letting those people determine our public policy.

It is irrefutably true that businesses and workplaces have 100% control over the safety of their workplace. If people choose not to frequent those places because they're being irresponsible with their worker's safety, the business will suffer the consequences. And if worker and consumer public health is so important to people, then fight for the rights of the people who have been working in masks throughout this whole pandemic. Otherwise, I'm not impressed by the depth of people's concern for public safety.

There is not a place in my community where I walk into and wearing a mask in not required. And my county has had very few COVID-19 deaths as a result. And preventing illness is not, nor should it ever have been the goal of a stay-in-place order. We're trying to prevent death, not illness.
Bobodeluxe
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"... will soon be down to three or four."

D tRump

February 29, 2020
bearister
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Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Matthew Patel
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bearister said:


How can I possibly trust an agency's website to give me accurate health information on the state of the coronavirus when they haven't updated this part of their page in a month?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/disposition-in-home-patients.html

Isn't this rather crucial information for us to have?
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