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Thread: OT: Trump/Russians/Robert Mueller

  1. #811
    True Blue Golden Bear bearister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unit2Sucks View Post
    So the blueprint for removing someone from the White House is pretty clear at this point. Just need to give them credit for Trump's victory and write enough articles about them. I nominate Miller as the next person to anoint since he seems to be the remaining ideologue and source of Trump's worst policies, positions and statements.
    Once Miller is fired, he can pursue his missed calling in life---being a full time Alt Right protest leader. His forehead area will present a perfect canvas for decoration by those utilizing Black Bloc demonstration tactics.
    Last edited by bearister; 08-20-2017 at 11:46 AM.

  2. #812
    Quote Originally Posted by Strykur View Post
    DBAP - look it up.
    You're wonderfully articulated DBAP response might more aptly apply to your own complete evasion of the questions I asked. DBAP and answer them clearly one by one. Go on record. So far not one Trump supporter has answered. I guess you'd rather be free to just keep rolling back your values to be able to justify whatever happens. Moral relativism built on stubbornness and anything you FEEL (not rationally mind you) are anti-Liberal. You have demonstrated no actual position other than "yeah but" and name calling.
    ~The Bear will not quilt. The Bear will not dye.~

  3. #813
    Golden Bear Strykur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blungld View Post
    You're wonderfully articulated DBAP response might more aptly apply to your own complete evasion of the questions I asked.
    Post again and be specific please, this thread is a mess.

  4. #814
    Quote Originally Posted by blungld View Post
    All the outspoken Trump supporters have been very aggressive and sure of themselves in their attacks on Clinton (why in the world is this their priority?) or their defense of Trump, but when I ask a direct question on these boards I get no answer. Let me try again:

    1) Do you still hold that there is "nothing" to the investigation of Trump, that it is an unjustified witch hunt? This in no way justifies an investigation? http://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/

    2) Do you still believe that he is doing a good job and that he is good man making the country great again?

    3) That he has drained the swamp rather than swamped it with ugly incompetence and moneyed interests?

    4) If he is found guilty of collusion, money laundering, espionage, tax evasion, perjury, and/or other crimes associated with a cover up or election fraud, will you call it a Liberal plot or will go on record now saying that if he is found guilty of these things then you were wrong and he is the dishonest, amoral un-American narcissist that we have been warning you about since the campaign? Will you ever look at how you make decisions, the bias you hold, and question your sources of information? Put it down here, is there anything wrong or illegal he can do...or is he always right and are your beliefs implacable?


    Months ago I said I thought he would resign or be impeached within the year, and you called me crazy and the result of the Liberal bubble, who lives in the bubble now? Who wants to bet money now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Strykur View Post
    Post again and be specific please, this thread is a mess.

  5. #815
    Golden Bear Strykur's Avatar
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    I have to do manual quotes here, let's see:

    1) Do you still hold that there is "nothing" to the investigation of Trump, that it is an unjustified witch hunt? This in no way justifies an investigation? http://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/
    The "Russia" "investigation" is the most absurd and bizarre media hoax of the 21st century, there is nothing to substantiate impeachment, there never will be, and Trump will remain in office until 2024. The worst case scenario of a Pence takeover would actually be exciting, for me anyway.

    2) Do you still believe that he is doing a good job and that he is good man making the country great again?
    I mentioned earlier why I am fine with him, but his victory was an amazing event that left the media and political elite in this country shattered, which to me is a fantastic double-whammy. Plus the Democratic Party has imploded. And like I also said, the setup he has in place heavily favors the right, which is great.

    3) That he has drained the swamp rather than swamped it with ugly incompetence and moneyed interests?
    I never really believed that Trump would "drain the swamp" per se, he has effectively kicked lobbyists out of the White House. The flipside is, DC is basically frozen. I did find the Bannon explanation that he wanted to dismantle the "administrative state" excellent, because I want the bureaucratic and welfare state in this country smashed. Paralyzing it is a good start.

    4) If he is found guilty of collusion, money laundering, espionage, tax evasion, perjury, and/or other crimes associated with a cover up or election fraud, will you call it a Liberal plot or will go on record now saying that if he is found guilty of these things then you were wrong and he is the dishonest, amoral un-American narcissist that we have been warning you about since the campaign? Will you ever look at how you make decisions, the bias you hold, and question your sources of information? Put it down here, is there anything wrong or illegal he can do...or is he always right and are your beliefs implacable?

    Months ago I said I thought he would resign or be impeached within the year, and you called me crazy and the result of the Liberal bubble, who lives in the bubble now? Who wants to bet money now?
    None of this is happening. If it actually does, (and Pence is POTUS!), then I might reflect on it a bit, but like I said, the right have taken over, so I am happy.

    By the way, being an amoral narcissist is not illegal. In fact, that makes Trump the perfect model for a politician - they are all fucking scum to begin with, so having Trump as POTUS is not that troubling to me.

  6. #816
    True Blue Golden Bear bearister's Avatar
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    "The "Russia" "investigation" is the most absurd and bizarre media hoax of the 21st century, there is nothing to substantiate impeachment.."
    Response:

    http://billmoyers.com/story/trump-russia-timeline/


    "Trump will remain in office until 2024. "

    I would be willing to bet a decent sum of money that will not be the case. Chances are he will not finish out his first term or if he does, not be reelected. But even if he were the most beloved POTUS of all time, the fact that he is old, 60+ pounds over weight, eats poorly, does not sleep enough, does not exercise, appears to have a substance abuse problem based on physical appearance and the content of his early morning hour tweets(despite his denials, which are meaningless), and his progressively deteriorating mental state, the odds greatly favor him either being deceased or physically and/or mentally incapacitated within the next 4 years, or in any event well before 2024.
    Last edited by bearister; 08-20-2017 at 03:52 PM.

  7. #817
    Quote Originally Posted by Strykur View Post
    The "Russia" "investigation" is the most absurd and bizarre media hoax of the 21st century, there is nothing to substantiate impeachment, there never will be, and Trump will remain in office until 2024.
    I just want to point out that Clinton was impeached for an event that occurred more than 4 years after Ken Starr began his investigation. To say that there will never be grounds to substantiate an impeachment is Trump-level bluster and complete disregard of reality. You really thing Trump can keep his nose clean for 4 more years (of course assuming there is nothing to impeach on already which none of us can know not having access to the evidence being gathered)?

  8. #818
    True Blue Golden Bear bearister's Avatar
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    Last edited by bearister; 08-20-2017 at 06:38 PM.

  9. #819
    True Blue Golden Bear bearister's Avatar
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    Pat Buchanan, Trump's biggest supporter:

    "Like Presidents Obama and Bush, he does not intend to preside over a U.S. defeat in its longest war. Nor do his generals. Yet how can we defeat the Taliban with 13,000 troops when we failed to do so with the 100,000 Obama sent?"

    Ho Chi Minh:

    "You can kill ten of our men for every one we kill of yours. But even at those odds, you will lose and we will win."
    Last edited by bearister; Yesterday at 09:08 PM.

  10. #820
    Afghanistan was lost the moment GWB turned his focus on Iraq and in doing so, turned the world against our GWOT efforts. Everything since then is just delaying the inevitable pullout and defeat of our local Afghani allies. It will eventually happen under a Democratic President and the GOP will accuse him/her of losing Afghanistan.

  11. #821
    True Blue Golden Bear bearister's Avatar
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    Afghanistan was never lost because it never could have been won and it has always been so:

    When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
    An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
    Go, go, go like a soldier,
    Go, go, go like a soldier,
    Go, go, go like a soldier,
    So-oldier of the Queen
    -Rudyard Kipling

    Let trump send Ivanka and Don, Jr. to fight (He probably has already enlisted Eric and Tiff).
    Last edited by bearister; Today at 06:24 AM.

  12. #822
    Quote Originally Posted by bearister View Post
    Afghanistan was never lost because it never could have been won and it has always been so:

    When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
    An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
    Go, go, go like a soldier,
    Go, go, go like a soldier,
    Go, go, go like a soldier,
    So-oldier of the Queen
    -Rudyard Kipling

    Let trump send Ivanka and Don, Jr. to fight (He probably has already enlisted Eric and Tiff).
    I disagree. After 9/11 we rolled up the Taliban pretty quickly and if we had been able to stay focused and catch bin Laden at Tora Bora, we could have done some brief nation building (some quick highways and schools) and left an ally in power, while we still had some moral authority in the eyes of the world, and declared victory and been out by 2004. That was our only chance at success. Of course, that would have precluded the invasion of Iraq which is what the GWB team really wanted all along so that didn't happen.

  13. #823
    True Blue Golden Bear bearister's Avatar
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  14. #824
    Quote Originally Posted by dajo9 View Post
    I disagree. After 9/11 we rolled up the Taliban pretty quickly and if we had been able to stay focused and catch bin Laden at Tora Bora, we could have done some brief nation building (some quick highways and schools) and left an ally in power, while we still had some moral authority in the eyes of the world, and declared victory and been out by 2004. That was our only chance at success. Of course, that would have precluded the invasion of Iraq which is what the GWB team really wanted all along so that didn't happen.
    I couldn't disagree more. We need to stop with the nation building as if there is no cultural difference that would bar our vision of good governance in certain countries or that democracy would work so well in other countries (that was a great experiment in Middle East, wasn't it - the Arab Spring was such a ringing success, with Syria, Libya, and even Egypt before the military coup being what we envisioned - that was one of the worst screw ups during the Obama administration, with Hillary leading the charge in support of Arab Spring). There was no path to success in Iraq, Syria, Libya or Afghanistan. What, we didn't learn anything from Soviet Union's foray into Afghanistan and our meddling there that enabled, trained and equipped bin Laden? Yes, we needed to bomb the heck out of Taliban as deterrence after 9/11 and their sheltering of Bin Laden - similar to what the first Bush did with Iraq - and then get out. The problem with GWB's Iraq war was that he thought there was something to finish what his father started (the reason for the Desert Storm was fully accomplished) and thought that we had some magic fairy dust that would turn Middle East into America with some bombs and money. We need to do surgical strikes and secret operations when necessary for deterrence and national security and use diplomacy to exert pressure for human rights without using hammer to constantly enforce our way of life in countries that don't want it.

  15. #825
    Quote Originally Posted by calbear93 View Post
    I couldn't disagree more. We need to stop with the nation building as if there is no cultural difference that would bar our vision of good governance in certain countries or that democracy would work so well in other countries (that was a great experiment in Middle East, wasn't it - the Arab Spring was such a ringing success, with Syria, Libya, and even Egypt before the military coup being what we envisioned - that was one of the worst screw ups during the Obama administration, with Hillary leading the charge in support of Arab Spring). There was no path to success in Iraq, Syria, Libya or Afghanistan. What, we didn't learn anything from Soviet Union's foray into Afghanistan and our meddling there that enabled, trained and equipped bin Laden? Yes, we needed to bomb the heck out of Taliban as deterrence after 9/11 and their sheltering of Bin Laden - similar to what the first Bush did with Iraq - and then get out. The problem with GWB's Iraq war was that he thought there was something to finish what his father started (the reason for the Desert Storm was fully accomplished) and thought that we had some magic fairy dust that would turn Middle East into America with some bombs and money. We need to do surgical strikes and secret operations when necessary for deterrence and national security and use diplomacy to exert pressure for human rights without using hammer to constantly enforce our way of life in countries that don't want it.
    I really think you are overstating my advocacy of nation building.

    After 9/11 it was absolutely necessary to go into Afghanistan and take down the Taliban and al Qaeda. Nobody believed this could sufficiently be done solely with airpower. So the question is, what do you do in Afghanistan when you are already there and have already blown up the current government. I'm saying you build some roads, schools, hospitals, try to install an ally and get out. That was the only chance at a good ending there, and even then I fully admit there's no guarantee of a good ending. This is completely different from going into countries with the intent of nation building (the biggest examples being Bush Sr in Panama and Somalia and Bush Jr in Iraq).

    The best example of what I am talking about is the Marshall Plan after World War II. When you've blown up a country it's a nice gesture to kick off the rebuilding effort.

    In regards to Syria, Libya, and Egypt I think you are off base but I see no point in getting into it further right now.



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