So often the "conservative" voices on these threads fail to take actual positions (just like their leaders I suppose). They are either "just asking questions" or "owning Libs" or just being plain contrarian but rarely state clearly and with accountability, here's what I think...and NEVER "I stand corrected."

In the interest of proving me wrong will you go on record with simple clear decisive answers to these questions?

1) Do you accept the results of the trials and jury verdicts? Meaning, you won't crow about "innocence" and I told you so (blah blah blah) if Trump is found not guilty or hung jury etc if you would have also said the jury was rigged etc if he is found guilty. State now, do you accept the jury verdict as true and final?

2) If Biden is re-elected and the country continues to improve economically (lower unemployment, higher GNP, reduced income inequality, etc); repairs its leadership in the world and with its allies; bolsters its infrastructure; and shows all the signs of better run administration with less internal drama and self-interest (I don't mean manufactured outrage/wedge issues by the right and false reporting by rightwing media, I mean in reality); and if by any reasonable standard the country is doing well, will you admit that Biden was a good president and that Democrat presidents are not disastrous to the country?

3) Will you ever hold Republican officials to the same standard you hold Democrats? Meaning, does the Republican always have your vote just because they are Republican, or does actual behavior and policy rather than loyalty and rhetoric actually matter to you?

4) Does it alarm you in any way that is people like MTG, Jordan, Gaetz, Comer, and Tuberville (I could go on) who speak for and represent you? That's your team. Those are the quality of people that you show loyalty to? You may dislike some of the Dems, but where are the ignorant brutish cruel people like that? Does this make you pause for even a second that maybe team Trump isn't the good guys?


I know these questions are leading, but I ask because I would vote Republican tomorrow if there were a smart politician with great ideas and policy, and I would want to jail every Democrat who participated in Jan 6th or had done half the things the Trump administration did. So why is that the GOP is such a party of us vs them?

Is there something about being conservative that also leans you to authoritarianism and tribalism and party before country loyalty? I have my biases, but my principles guide my loyalty completely, not the other way around. And I vote against my interest and in the interest of others all the time. The only voting against self-interest by Republicans I see is unknowingly and I rarely rarely rarely see them turn on the magic letter R.

There are so many high profile Republicans who intensely dislike Trump and think he should never be in the Oval Office again, and yet they may still vote for him. I just don't get it. What is that level of conditioning (or hatred/fear of others)? Biden has clearly been a much better president even if you have normal disagreement with some policy--and yet false equivalencies take root and irrational vilification supersedes objectivity so that the enduring cult of R can be justified. Why do you keep playing?

1) No
2) Counterfactual. He (or I should say, his handlers, because everyone knows all he does is read cue cards) is already destroying the country with the help of RINOs.
3) Yes
4) Not in the least. Could we do better? Perhaps. But Jordan vs. Schiff? MTG vs. AOC? Is this even a serious question?

Congrats, your side is winning and will continue to win. Such is the nature of corrupt, disintegrating empires.
Enjoy the chaos. Own it.

blungld said:

---

So often the "conservative" voices on these threads fail to take actual positions (just like their leaders I suppose). They are either "just asking questions" or "owning Libs" or just being plain contrarian but rarely state clearly and with accountability, here's what I think...and NEVER "I stand corrected."

In the interest of proving me wrong will you go on record with simple clear decisive answers to these questions?

1) Do you accept the results of the trials and jury verdicts? Meaning, you won't crow about "innocence" and I told you so (blah blah blah) if Trump is found not guilty or hung jury etc if you would have also said the jury was rigged etc if he is found guilty. State now, do you accept the jury verdict as true and final?

*Yes, would you accept that he is not guilty if he was found not guilty?

2) If Biden is re-elected and the country continues to improve economically (lower unemployment, higher GNP, reduced income inequality, etc); repairs its leadership in the world and with its allies; bolsters its infrastructure; and shows all the signs of better run administration with less internal drama and self-interest (I don't mean manufactured outrage/wedge issues by the right and false reporting by rightwing media, I mean in reality); and if by any reasonable standard the country is doing well, will you admit that Biden was a good president and that Democrat presidents are not disastrous to the country?

*Democratic presidents are not in themselves disastrous to the country. If Biden is reelected and does well, he will likely be a good president. I would still have strong negative opinions over the way he is handling covid and international affairs. I also don't believe the economy is doing well although we seem to be doing better than a lot of Western countries.

3) Will you ever hold Republican officials to the same standard you hold Democrats? Meaning, does the Republican always have your vote just because they are Republican, or does actual behavior and policy rather than loyalty and rhetoric actually matter to you?

*I have always argued individual issues as opposed to taking a hard line Republican stance. That is one of the reasons why Mr Sucks and AngryIneedaNappyBear call me a contrarian.

4) Does it alarm you in any way that is people like MTG, Jordan, Gaetz, Comer, and Tuberville (I could go on) who speak for and represent you? That's your team. Those are the quality of people that you show loyalty to? You may dislike some of the Dems, but where are the ignorant brutish cruel people like that? Does this make you pause for even a second that maybe team Trump isn't the good guys?

*There are wackos in both parties.

I know these questions are leading, but I ask because I would vote Republican tomorrow if there were a smart politician with great ideas and policy, and I would want to jail every Democrat who participated in Jan 6th or had done half the things the Trump administration did. So why is that the GOP is such a party of us vs them?

*You can say the same thing about the Democrats. Also, not everyone involved in Jan 6 should be jailed. Especially in light of the fact that informants were there as agitators, I wouldn't arrest those peacefully protesting. I sure wouldn't Trump up charges based on an irrelevant financial law.

Is there something about being conservative that also leans you to authoritarianism and tribalism and party before country loyalty? I have my biases, but my principles guide my loyalty completely, not the other way around. And I vote against my interest and in the interest of others all the time. The only voting against self-interest by Republicans I see is unknowingly and I rarely rarely rarely see them turn on the magic letter R.

*Nope, your party is regulating with executive orders and administrative actions. You just don't see the authoritarianism because you believe it is for the greater good, just like the censorship of and unwarranted spying on the governments' enemies.

There are so many high profile Republicans who intensely dislike Trump and think he should never be in the Oval Office again, and yet they may still vote for him. I just don't get it. What is that level of conditioning (or hatred/fear of others)? Biden has clearly been a much better president even if you have normal disagreement with some policy--and yet false equivalencies take root and irrational vilification supersedes objectivity so that the enduring cult of R can be justified. Why do you keep playing?

* Trump is not a good president and shouldn't be reelected although his revolt against left wing social extremism is refreshing. The left wants to normalize grotesque behavior. The right takes advantage of such, magnifies it with their own biased journalism, and brings out the crazies. It is gross all around.

---

Answers above. It is interesting how you pose these questions to all Republicans here but then write as though you are only asking such of loyal unquestioning trumpists. The world isn't black and white, and you appear guilty of some of the things you are accusing Republicans of.

The danger here is that the "Democratic" Party has based its overall campaign strategy on "Trump BAD," rather than using their control of WH, Senate, & House (until 2022) to bring substantial improvement to the lives of American Workers & Voters.

The polarization of U.S. politics is so pervasive that many liberal/moderate independents and Democrats are just fine with ANYTHING the Biden administration & Democrats do -- genocide, bombing consulates, starting WW3 -- as long as they oppose & condemn Trump.

blungld said:

---

4) Does it alarm you in any way that is people like MTG, Jordan, Gaetz, Comer, and Tuberville (I could go on) who speak for and represent you?

---

I wish more people in Congress supported this position of Marjorie Taylor-Greene

If you want to fund the endless foreign wars, you should have to go fight them.

That’s why I’m introducing an amendment that would require any Member of Congress who votes for the multibillion $ Ukraine supplemental to enlist in Ukraine’s military.

More: https://t.co/kTtrCUcglS

— Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene🇺🇸 (@RepMTG) April 18, 2024

cbbass1 said:

---

The danger here is that the "Democratic" Party has based its overall campaign strategy on "Trump BAD," rather than using their control of WH, Senate, & House (until 2022) to bring substantial improvement to the lives of American Workers & Voters.

The polarization of U.S. politics is so pervasive that many liberal/moderate independents and Democrats are just fine with ANYTHING the Biden administration & Democrats do -- genocide, bombing consulates, starting WW3 -- as long as they oppose & condemn Trump.

---

Biden's Infrastructure Act, Inflation Reduction Act, and Chips Act have done great things for Americans

dajo9 said:

---

cbbass1 said:

---

The danger here is that the "Democratic" Party has based its overall campaign strategy on "Trump BAD," rather than using their control of WH, Senate, & House (until 2022) to bring substantial improvement to the lives of American Workers & Voters.

The polarization of U.S. politics is so pervasive that many liberal/moderate independents and Democrats are just fine with ANYTHING the Biden administration & Democrats do -- genocide, bombing consulates, starting WW3 -- as long as they oppose & condemn Trump.

---

Biden's Infrastructure Act, Inflation Reduction Act, and Chips Act have done great things for Americans

---

I'll give you the Inflation Reduction Act as a plus. But that's about it.

The Build Back Better started out great -- increase the Corporate Earnings Tax to pay for infrastructure maintenance, improvements, and expansion. But by the time Shadow-President Joe Manchin got done with the deal, Manchin and the GOP got exactly what they wanted: Instead of the $$ coming from corporate taxes, the Federal Government would just transfer ownership of public infrastructure to private corporations, and then give them $$ for the improvements!

The Chips Act: What an unmitigated disaster!

Yes, it's in our interests to produce semiconductors in the U.S., and yes, it takes a boatload of capital to build production facilities. But if Intel & Taiwan Semi & other semiconductor companies are wildly profitable, to the point of buying back their own shares, why don't they invest their own $$$?? And for the Federal Government's gargantuan investment, how much equity do the Federal Government and U.S. Taxpayers get in return for their investment? Apparently, ZERO.

In 1981, Ronald Reagan said in his inauguration speech that "Government IS the problem."

Later, Grover Norquist shared his widely-held desire to keep the U.S. Federal Government "small enough to drown it in the bathtub."

After decades of lowering wages & salaries, shifting the tax burden from corporations to individuals, monopolizing and price-gouging, American Workers have finally reached the point where they can't afford much beyond rent, food, and necessities.

In other words, our Consumer Economy is toast. The sale of mass-produced products is no longer a reliable source of revenue for large corporations.

So -- to whom do they turn for revenue? The Big, Bad U.S. Government. Yes, the very one that they used to hate.

"Defense," surveillance, government contracts, police militarization, regime change wars, genocide, corporate welfare -- Uncle Sam is writing checks like crazy, and corporations can't get enough. $60 Billion for a lost war in Ukraine? With no oversight or Inspector General? No problem. $26 Billion for Israel's genocide and attack on Iran to kick off WW3? Why not?? ANYTHING for Dear Leader Netanyahu.

But just try to spend Federal money on Public Education, or a Child Tax Credit (which Dems somehow couldn't renew), and you'll get the usual refrain:

• "You must be a Socialist. Or a Communist."
• "THE DEFICIT!!!!!"
• "How are ya gonna pay for that?"
• "Get outta here. We can't afford it."

No wonder that they want us to keep sniping at each other over Trump this, Biden that. Weapons of Mass Distraction.

Samsung committed to invest billions in a new plant in Arizona IIRC. They became so frustrated with red tape requirements of the chips act, particularly related to DEI hiring, that they froze the project and announced a new plant in Japan (SK?).

Everything these clowns touch makes things less efficient, more difficult, more costly. All roads lead to inflation.

Factory construction spending booms under Biden
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/04/biden-factory-spending-manufacturing-chips

Zippergate said:

---

Samsung committed to invest billions in a new plant in Arizona IIRC. They became so frustrated with red tape requirements of the chips act, particularly related to DEI hiring, that they froze the project and announced a new plant in Japan (SK?).

Everything these clowns touch makes things less efficient, more difficult, more costly. All roads lead to inflation.

---

Just to be clear -- I'm not a big fan of DEI; bigger fan of New Deal policies like unions, tariffs, and investing in Public Education and Public Infrastructure, etc.

Imagine if you will that Trump had his white house coordinate with the 4 most red states' Attorney Generals and DA's to manufacture crimes that either have never been tried before, statute of limitations ran out or created out of thin air. These AG's ran their elections with the core focus of "Getting Biden". Every city they are being tried in is 95% Republican. These AGs and DA's delayed taking these cases to trial until the year of the next election. Before the trials start the judges assigned are deep red republicans who decide to put gag orders on Biden. Every expert the defense puts forth is not allowed and all punishments will be record setting. When the verdicts find Biden guilty, will you accept the result?

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Imagine if you will that Trump had his white house coordinate with the 4 most red states' Attorney Generals and DA's to manufacture crimes that either have never been tried before, statute of limitations ran out or created out of thin air. These AG's ran their elections with the core focus of "Getting Biden". Every city they are being tried in is 95% Republican. These AGs and DA's delayed taking these cases to trial until the year of the next election. Before the trials start the judges assigned are deep red republicans who decide to put gag orders on Biden. Every expert the defense puts forth is not allowed and all punishments will be record setting. When the verdicts find Biden guilty, will you accept the result?

---

The reason that those crimes hadn't been tried before is that no one has tried to steal a U.S. Presidential Election that way before.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Yes, there are politics in the prosecutions. It's unavoidable. But they clearly aren't purely political prosecutions.

The documents case: If Trump had simply returned the documents, he'd be done with it. Instead, he tried to keep a bunch of classified docs, even after the first raid. That's just dumb.

The case that I think is most important is the most serious -- the actual conspiracy to use fake elector certificates to try to win the Electoral College vote. That is a clear attempt to steal an election.

That said, the Dems are chicken-xxxt for not prosecuting Trump IMMEDIATELY for the fake-elector attempted steal of the election. So I agree with you on the timing.

One of the most damaging cases for Trump, though, was his E Jean Carrol (?) civil trial. The man (Trump) was simply unable to shut his yap. He kept running his mouth & racking up $millions that he'd have to pay in settlements. That was embarrassing. That's when many of his followers must've had that sinking feeling like they're following a con man who's unable to do a damn thing for them.

But nothing that Dems say will lead them to that realization. They have to get there themselves.

Zippergate said:

---

1) No
2) Counterfactual. He (or I should say, his handlers, because everyone knows all he does is read cue cards) is already destroying the country with the help of RINOs.
3) Yes
4) Not in the least. Could we do better? Perhaps. But Jordan vs. Schiff? MTG vs. AOC? Is this even a serious question?

Congrats, your side is winning and will continue to win. Such is the nature of corrupt, disintegrating empires.
Enjoy the chaos. Own it.

---

Thanks for answering but man are you truly serious. Is this just a shtick? Do you swear this is your really honest opinion?

1) So you won't accept jury verdict. That means if found innocent you won't believe that either, right?

2) He is "destroying" the country? Literally destroying it? Can you tell me how the country is literally being destroyed? It seems to me we are still pretty clearly a country and the only threat to it is MAGA folks talking about Civil War. I can't even begin to understand how you think the country is worse now than under Trump, let alone on the verge of destruction. Is this just melodrama? Repeating Trump phrases? Please explain how the US is on the verge of not existing because of Biden.

3) Can you give me an example in the last few years of holding a Rep to the same standard of criticism you reserve for Dems?

4) This is the most shocking of your 4 answers. How in the world do you think MTG is an improvement over AOC? And not only an improvement in your eyes but a clear one? I understand that from a policy position you may disagree with AOC, but she is a smart, well intentioned, earnest person who attempts to do the right thing. MTG is not intelligent, wholly corrupt, cruel, petty, uninformed, and mindlessly partisan. She is unquestionably a huge problem for our country. And you pick her over AOC? This is not my partisanship speaking. One clearly demonstrates psychological issues, the other you just disagree with. I completely fail to understand how you don't see this.


Overall, it is truly astounding when the anti-democratic authoritarian forces transform into a populist cult, and then think they are saving the country when their ascension to power is the only thing that threatens the democracy. Are you not able to look at history and see this pattern repeat over and over again...and unable to connect the dots that it is MAGA and people who express opinions like yours that are the destruction. You save nothing. You elevate nothing. You protect nothing. You champion no enduring values or ethics. Your movement is one of revenge, bitterness, control, self-interest. This is as plain as your language, propaganda, and your political and media leadership. It is both bizarre that you don't see it, and sad that you aren't able to admit it and course correct.

You really think the movie of our times, the histories written about it, will depict the MAGA movement and Trump as the group who came to power to save what is best about democracy and America. If you do, then your indoctrination is complete.

There is no point in responding to your points. We will never agree on agree on (dare I say?) anything, even on points of fact. I only responded to your questions to remind you that there are highly-educated people out there, many more than you can imagine, who vehemently disagree with you. I know that's hard for you to comprehend because the influencers who feed you talking points tell you differently but it's the truth. A society can only deny reality for so long before the chickens come home to roost.

If you think normalcy, morality, and democracy is on the side you take, then you are symptom of the time, a case study. Yes, we have nothing in common and I am glad about that. You are a lost cause and I wish that wasn't true.

Can you at least write in no more than 2-3 sentences how America is on the verge of nonexistence due to Biden?

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil... (Isaiah 5:20)

But it's much broader than morality, it's a pervasive pattern of denying reality.
A vote for Joe Biden is a vote for Joe Biden. He is capable of leading us now and into the future.
The Inflation Reduction Act will reduce inflation.
Climate change is a crisis. (see Steve Koonin and Alex Epstein)
American oil causes polar ice to melt, drought, forest fires and bomb cyclones, but solar panels made using Chinese coal stops this.
Trans women are real women.
Mutilating children is health care.
Sexualizing small children is education but math can racist if it doesn't produce the results we want.
"pandemic of the unvaccinated"/"safe and effective"
We have a monopoly on "science."
The fiscal path is sustainable.
MMT if not in name at least in practice means we can have every program we desire.
Homelessness is a housing problem.
Jan 6 was an insurrection.
Saint George Floyd was murdered.
"Mostly peaceful protests"
White supremacy is the "most lethal threat" but Antifa is just an idea.
Stoking racial hate (DEI) is virtue itself with no consequences.
Justice is exercised apolitically both by DA's and judges.
Creating endless foreign enemies in endless foreign wars is beneficial with no consequences.
We are always the white hats and our perspective (as expressed by the CIA, NSA etc) is unimpeachable.
Weaponizing the US dollar will not have consequences.
There is no such thing as moral hazard.
Shoplifters just want to feed their families and criminals don't respond to incentives.
Censorship promotes democracy, as long as it's our people doing the censorship.
My rabidly partisan news source, which literally gets its talking points verbatim from one political party, is unbiased.
Voter ID requirements are voter suppression.
Jeffrey Epstein killed himself.
You can import an unlimited number of unskilled, uneducated people of any cultural background and they will have a positive impact on the economy and society.
Cui bono does not apply to politicians or government bureaucracies.

These are just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Feel free to rail against Trump and the Republicans if it fulfills your urge to respond. Like I said, we're not going to agree on anything and that's okay. Until my thoughts are criminalized.

Your thoughts will never be criminalized, you whiney little baby. But they will always be far out of the mainstream, entirely unfounded, and potentially dangerous. Republican gonna Republican. Righteous Righty Christian gonna holier than though.

blungld said:

---

Zippergate said:

---

1) No
2) Counterfactual. He (or I should say, his handlers, because everyone knows all he does is read cue cards) is already destroying the country with the help of RINOs.
3) Yes
4) Not in the least. Could we do better? Perhaps. But Jordan vs. Schiff? MTG vs. AOC? Is this even a serious question?

Congrats, your side is winning and will continue to win. Such is the nature of corrupt, disintegrating empires.
Enjoy the chaos. Own it.

---

Thanks for answering but man are you truly serious. Is this just a shtick? Do you swear this is your really honest opinion?

1) So you won't accept jury verdict. That means if found innocent you won't believe that either, right?

2) He is "destroying" the country? Literally destroying it? Can you tell me how the country is literally being destroyed? It seems to me we are still pretty clearly a country and the only threat to it is MAGA folks talking about Civil War. I can't even begin to understand how you think the country is worse now than under Trump, let alone on the verge of destruction. Is this just melodrama? Repeating Trump phrases? Please explain how the US is on the verge of not existing because of Biden.

3) Can you give me an example in the last few years of holding a Rep to the same standard of criticism you reserve for Dems?

4) This is the most shocking of your 4 answers. How in the world do you think MTG is an improvement over AOC? And not only an improvement in your eyes but a clear one? I understand that from a policy position you may disagree with AOC, but she is a smart, well intentioned, earnest person who attempts to do the right thing. MTG is not intelligent, wholly corrupt, cruel, petty, uninformed, and mindlessly partisan. She is unquestionably a huge problem for our country. And you pick her over AOC? This is not my partisanship speaking. One clearly demonstrates psychological issues, the other you just disagree with. I completely fail to understand how you don't see this.


Overall, it is truly astounding when the anti-democratic authoritarian forces transform into a populist cult, and then think they are saving the country when their ascension to power is the only thing that threatens the democracy. Are you not able to look at history and see this pattern repeat over and over again...and unable to connect the dots that it is MAGA and people who express opinions like yours that are the destruction. You save nothing. You elevate nothing. You protect nothing. You champion no enduring values or ethics. Your movement is one of revenge, bitterness, control, self-interest. This is as plain as your language, propaganda, and your political and media leadership. It is both bizarre that you don't see it, and sad that you aren't able to admit it and course correct.

You really think the movie of our times, the histories written about it, will depict the MAGA movement and Trump as the group who came to power to save what is best about democracy and America. If you do, then your indoctrination is complete.

---

Regarding #4, I still haven't quite figured out why those people hate Adam Schiff so much, but it might have something to do with him being really sensible and articulate, which can be super-frustrating!

Big C said:

---

blungld said:

---

Zippergate said:

---

1) No
2) Counterfactual. He (or I should say, his handlers, because everyone knows all he does is read cue cards) is already destroying the country with the help of RINOs.
3) Yes
4) Not in the least. Could we do better? Perhaps. But Jordan vs. Schiff? MTG vs. AOC? Is this even a serious question?

Congrats, your side is winning and will continue to win. Such is the nature of corrupt, disintegrating empires.
Enjoy the chaos. Own it.

---

Thanks for answering but man are you truly serious. Is this just a shtick? Do you swear this is your really honest opinion?

1) So you won't accept jury verdict. That means if found innocent you won't believe that either, right?

2) He is "destroying" the country? Literally destroying it? Can you tell me how the country is literally being destroyed? It seems to me we are still pretty clearly a country and the only threat to it is MAGA folks talking about Civil War. I can't even begin to understand how you think the country is worse now than under Trump, let alone on the verge of destruction. Is this just melodrama? Repeating Trump phrases? Please explain how the US is on the verge of not existing because of Biden.

3) Can you give me an example in the last few years of holding a Rep to the same standard of criticism you reserve for Dems?

4) This is the most shocking of your 4 answers. How in the world do you think MTG is an improvement over AOC? And not only an improvement in your eyes but a clear one? I understand that from a policy position you may disagree with AOC, but she is a smart, well intentioned, earnest person who attempts to do the right thing. MTG is not intelligent, wholly corrupt, cruel, petty, uninformed, and mindlessly partisan. She is unquestionably a huge problem for our country. And you pick her over AOC? This is not my partisanship speaking. One clearly demonstrates psychological issues, the other you just disagree with. I completely fail to understand how you don't see this.


Overall, it is truly astounding when the anti-democratic authoritarian forces transform into a populist cult, and then think they are saving the country when their ascension to power is the only thing that threatens the democracy. Are you not able to look at history and see this pattern repeat over and over again...and unable to connect the dots that it is MAGA and people who express opinions like yours that are the destruction. You save nothing. You elevate nothing. You protect nothing. You champion no enduring values or ethics. Your movement is one of revenge, bitterness, control, self-interest. This is as plain as your language, propaganda, and your political and media leadership. It is both bizarre that you don't see it, and sad that you aren't able to admit it and course correct.

You really think the movie of our times, the histories written about it, will depict the MAGA movement and Trump as the group who came to power to save what is best about democracy and America. If you do, then your indoctrination is complete.

---

Regarding #4, I still haven't quite figured out why those people hate Adam Schiff so much, but it might have something to do with him being really sensible and articulate, which can be super-frustrating!

---

AOC also. She is awesome. They hate Schiff because he went after Traitor Trump for all the evidence of Russian collusion. AOC is also sensible and articulate. Maybe it has to do with her being a woman and poc.

I swear you are parody account.

dajo9 said:

---

Big C said:

---

blungld said:

---

Zippergate said:

---

1) No
2) Counterfactual. He (or I should say, his handlers, because everyone knows all he does is read cue cards) is already destroying the country with the help of RINOs.
3) Yes
4) Not in the least. Could we do better? Perhaps. But Jordan vs. Schiff? MTG vs. AOC? Is this even a serious question?

Congrats, your side is winning and will continue to win. Such is the nature of corrupt, disintegrating empires.
Enjoy the chaos. Own it.

---

Thanks for answering but man are you truly serious. Is this just a shtick? Do you swear this is your really honest opinion?

1) So you won't accept jury verdict. That means if found innocent you won't believe that either, right?

2) He is "destroying" the country? Literally destroying it? Can you tell me how the country is literally being destroyed? It seems to me we are still pretty clearly a country and the only threat to it is MAGA folks talking about Civil War. I can't even begin to understand how you think the country is worse now than under Trump, let alone on the verge of destruction. Is this just melodrama? Repeating Trump phrases? Please explain how the US is on the verge of not existing because of Biden.

3) Can you give me an example in the last few years of holding a Rep to the same standard of criticism you reserve for Dems?

4) This is the most shocking of your 4 answers. How in the world do you think MTG is an improvement over AOC? And not only an improvement in your eyes but a clear one? I understand that from a policy position you may disagree with AOC, but she is a smart, well intentioned, earnest person who attempts to do the right thing. MTG is not intelligent, wholly corrupt, cruel, petty, uninformed, and mindlessly partisan. She is unquestionably a huge problem for our country. And you pick her over AOC? This is not my partisanship speaking. One clearly demonstrates psychological issues, the other you just disagree with. I completely fail to understand how you don't see this.


Overall, it is truly astounding when the anti-democratic authoritarian forces transform into a populist cult, and then think they are saving the country when their ascension to power is the only thing that threatens the democracy. Are you not able to look at history and see this pattern repeat over and over again...and unable to connect the dots that it is MAGA and people who express opinions like yours that are the destruction. You save nothing. You elevate nothing. You protect nothing. You champion no enduring values or ethics. Your movement is one of revenge, bitterness, control, self-interest. This is as plain as your language, propaganda, and your political and media leadership. It is both bizarre that you don't see it, and sad that you aren't able to admit it and course correct.

You really think the movie of our times, the histories written about it, will depict the MAGA movement and Trump as the group who came to power to save what is best about democracy and America. If you do, then your indoctrination is complete.

---

Regarding #4, I still haven't quite figured out why those people hate Adam Schiff so much, but it might have something to do with him being really sensible and articulate, which can be super-frustrating!

---

AOC also. She is awesome. They hate Schiff because he went after Traitor Trump for all the evidence of Russian collusion. AOC is also sensible and articulate. Maybe it has to do with her being a woman and poc.

---

AOC and Schiff suck for different reasons. AOC sucks because she is a fake who sold out every single principle that she claimed to hold that got her elected in the first place. Schiff sucks because he's a liar, he's a vassal for the intelligence community, and he leaks like crazy to the media, which is why they were all so certain Russiagate was real and then were left looking like jackasses (just like you were) when Mueller had nothing. They all believed Schiff was feeding them real info when he had zero proof.

Never stops being funny how much all you Biden voters bought into Russiagate.

Zippergate said:

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I swear you are parody account.

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Very substantive. What do you not like about AOC?

Palestinian Chicken said:

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dajo9 said:

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Big C said:

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blungld said:

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Zippergate said:

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1) No
2) Counterfactual. He (or I should say, his handlers, because everyone knows all he does is read cue cards) is already destroying the country with the help of RINOs.
3) Yes
4) Not in the least. Could we do better? Perhaps. But Jordan vs. Schiff? MTG vs. AOC? Is this even a serious question?

Congrats, your side is winning and will continue to win. Such is the nature of corrupt, disintegrating empires.
Enjoy the chaos. Own it.

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Thanks for answering but man are you truly serious. Is this just a shtick? Do you swear this is your really honest opinion?

1) So you won't accept jury verdict. That means if found innocent you won't believe that either, right?

2) He is "destroying" the country? Literally destroying it? Can you tell me how the country is literally being destroyed? It seems to me we are still pretty clearly a country and the only threat to it is MAGA folks talking about Civil War. I can't even begin to understand how you think the country is worse now than under Trump, let alone on the verge of destruction. Is this just melodrama? Repeating Trump phrases? Please explain how the US is on the verge of not existing because of Biden.

3) Can you give me an example in the last few years of holding a Rep to the same standard of criticism you reserve for Dems?

4) This is the most shocking of your 4 answers. How in the world do you think MTG is an improvement over AOC? And not only an improvement in your eyes but a clear one? I understand that from a policy position you may disagree with AOC, but she is a smart, well intentioned, earnest person who attempts to do the right thing. MTG is not intelligent, wholly corrupt, cruel, petty, uninformed, and mindlessly partisan. She is unquestionably a huge problem for our country. And you pick her over AOC? This is not my partisanship speaking. One clearly demonstrates psychological issues, the other you just disagree with. I completely fail to understand how you don't see this.


Overall, it is truly astounding when the anti-democratic authoritarian forces transform into a populist cult, and then think they are saving the country when their ascension to power is the only thing that threatens the democracy. Are you not able to look at history and see this pattern repeat over and over again...and unable to connect the dots that it is MAGA and people who express opinions like yours that are the destruction. You save nothing. You elevate nothing. You protect nothing. You champion no enduring values or ethics. Your movement is one of revenge, bitterness, control, self-interest. This is as plain as your language, propaganda, and your political and media leadership. It is both bizarre that you don't see it, and sad that you aren't able to admit it and course correct.

You really think the movie of our times, the histories written about it, will depict the MAGA movement and Trump as the group who came to power to save what is best about democracy and America. If you do, then your indoctrination is complete.

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Regarding #4, I still haven't quite figured out why those people hate Adam Schiff so much, but it might have something to do with him being really sensible and articulate, which can be super-frustrating!

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AOC also. She is awesome. They hate Schiff because he went after Traitor Trump for all the evidence of Russian collusion. AOC is also sensible and articulate. Maybe it has to do with her being a woman and poc.

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AOC and Schiff suck for different reasons. AOC sucks because she is a fake who sold out every single principle that she claimed to hold that got her elected in the first place. Schiff sucks because he's a liar, he's a vassal for the intelligence community, and he leaks like crazy to the media, which is why they were all so certain Russiagate was real and then were left looking like jackasses (just like you were) when Mueller had nothing. They all believed Schiff was feeding them real info when he had zero proof.

Never stops being funny how much all you Biden voters bought into Russiagate.

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Who out there do you actually like and what chance do they have to be elected to anything? I admire idealism, but politics and democratic government are about compromise.

Regarding Russiagate, how do you explain the pee tape?

Zippergate said:

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I swear you are parody account.

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Close, but no cigar: I am the parody account around here.

blungld said:

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So often the "conservative" voices on these threads fail to take actual positions (just like their leaders I suppose). They are either "just asking questions" or "owning Libs" or just being plain contrarian but rarely state clearly and with accountability, here's what I think...and NEVER "I stand corrected."

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The libs have nothing to run on in 2024 except....killing babies?

Big C said:

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Regarding #4, I still haven't quite figured out why those people hate Adam Schiff so much, but it might have something to do with him being really sensible and articulate, which can be super-frustrating!

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Big C, this is so disappointing. There's a part of me that can understand why liberal females, bearister, and concordtom would hate Trump. You don't know why people hate Adam Schiff?

Your list is what radicalization looks like. Reframe the other's position, misstate and bend the meaning of words so that it is easy to think of the opposition as a threat and that you are on the side of right. I could go through your list and point out how nearly all of them are a completely erroneous framing of an issue. But let's just take two that were side by side:

"Trans woman are real women" - This is a complete statement of fact. There are in fact trans women meaning they factually exist, and yes they are women. Instead of educating yourself about the difference between sex and gender and that this is 100% accepted and proven by the WHO and all credible medical associations and doctors, you want to hide your bigotry through the sophistry of dumb slogans. Do you have no ability to understand nuance and complicated issues and non-binary reality? You are the dinosaur who 50 years ago believed blacks were inferior, and then that gay people were inferior, and now here you go with not opening your mind and heart to trans people. No matter what your position at the policy level is on trans rights, that is completely independent of not understanding the science and the distinction of sex and gender...and most importantly that they are real people who are suffering and often suicidal who need compassion and validation and understanding and not "I don't understand it so I make fun of it and pretend its not real."

Same goes for mutilating children. Here agin frame the issue with loaded words to make yourself sound right and compassionate rather than ignorant. NO ONE believes in mutilating children. But guess what some children along with their parents and doctors undertake a long process of careful decision making that may not have been a part of your life and experience, but is a real and important to them and not frivolous and abusive. Do you say the same thing about religious circumcision and bris?

One by one your list is: let me write a position in totally colored biased language that shows me as a person who is radicalized and reductive and completely uninterested in learning or being informed or evolving my knowledge base. It's just completely dishonest. Try Steel Manning and you might learn something. I personally would never want to be one of those people in photos berating the black kids as they go to school with desegregation, but your list shows you to be not only comfortable with being that presence in society, but proud of it. Does no one in your life hold a mirror up to you?

Trans people deserve to by treated with kindness and dignity, but that does not mean we should give in to their every whim, every delusion, and turn society upside down to accommodate them. That is neither good for them nor society. As for "trans" kids, you've been fed nothing but propaganda and have obviously never been exposed to anything critical of how juvenile "trans care" is actually practiced. Do a little research on Lupron for starters.

I find it highly ironic that you accuse me of being a pro-segregationist bigot. Here in 2024, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that the only segregation today is advocated and practiced by progressive bigots.

I will not respond to the rest of your screed. It's all projection and presumption devoid of original thought or nuance. Are you using woke AI?

I didn't say we should "give in to" every trans whim. It's telling that you see trying to protect them from persecution and cruel policies that target them as giving in to their every whim. But my point was not about policy. I said we might disagree on policy. I said that if you believe that trans women are not women then you are engaged in bigotry, are anti-science, and do not understand the difference between sex and gender. It's the sentence you use and how you frame other's positions that I took exception to.

How many trans people do you have in your life? What is your real world experience dealing with trans issues and actual living breathing people, or is your only experience memes and op-eds and "ha ha ha Liberals think a man can be a woman" straw men?

I suspect you are like so many conservatives who until their child is in an interracial relationship, or gay, or trans, or a member of whichever group that has been historically othered by conservatives, perfectly comfortable with inequality and see any effort to treat them humanely as "giving in" or taking something from you...until it directly effects you. How about you try and get ahead of the curve and conjure a little empathy and understanding BEFORE it enters your life directly or your tribe accepts another "loss" in the ongoing evolution of social justice? You know, like decent people do.