when people who identify with a man who died on a cross and was reborn condemn men/women who identify with the opposite sex
Easter
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Last: 1 mo ago by dajo9
Oakbear said:
when people who identify with a man who died on a cross and was reborn condemn men/women who identify with the opposite sex
— Karli Bonne’ 🇺🇸 (@KarluskaP) March 31, 2024
Are you mad?
Today, on Trans Day of Visibility, we celebrate California's trans individuals and recognize their struggle for recognition and survival in the face of unconscionable hate.
— California Governor (@CAgovernor) March 31, 2024
Everyone deserves to be respected, connected, and protected. Our trans community deserves no less. pic.twitter.com/6HRMkX9MhB
What is Jennifer wearing? Any takers?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
Oakbear said:
when people who identify with a man who died on a cross and was reborn condemn men/women who identify with the opposite sex
Or when gender dysphoria literally becomes the new official religion.
White House celebration pic.twitter.com/nf2N7EDMqb
— Winnie Schola (@WinnieSchola) March 31, 2024
Are they not visible?
Cal88 said:Oakbear said:
when people who identify with a man who died on a cross and was reborn condemn men/women who identify with the opposite sex
Or when gender dysphoria literally becomes the new official religion.
Skin off your back how others dress or who they have sex with???
concordtom said:Cal88 said:Oakbear said:
when people who identify with a man who died on a cross and was reborn condemn men/women who identify with the opposite sex
Or when gender dysphoria literally becomes the new official religion.
Skin off your back how others dress or who they have sex with???
No skin off my back. Not a surprise this world is broken.
Just stupid politics and example of how Biden is begging to lose.
Even if you have nothing against eating pork or brunch, it would be insensitive to and alienating an important voting bloc for the White House to have a national pork day and celebrate with a pork feast on start of Yum Kippur or celebrate national brunch day on start of Ramadan. No one who is saved is not going to be saved because Easter happened to overlap with transgender day but bad look for Biden. Just example of low EQ folks also running Biden's campaign.
First, let me say that I agree with Big C that we have too many "days." Today isn't just April Fool's Day, it's also Take Down Tobacco National Day of Action, National IEP Writing Day, National One Cent Day and National Sourdough Bread Day.calbear93 said:
No skin off my back. Not a surprise this world is broken.
Just stupid politics and example of how Biden is begging to lose.
Even if you have nothing against eating pork or brunch, it would be insensitive to and alienating an important voting bloc for the White House to have a national pork day and celebrate with a pork feast on start of Yum Kippur or celebrate national brunch day on start of Ramadan. No one who is saved is not going to be saved because Easter happened to overlap with transgender day but bad look for Biden. Just example of low EQ folks also running Biden's campaign.
And not all days are created equal, some of these matter to a lot of people. TDOV was started in 2009 and has been recognized each year by the Biden administration. It's not a federal holiday and I suspect that no anti-trans Americans were harmed by the Biden administration's acknowledgment of this day.
As you know, Easter moves around from year to year. It would seem to me that your request, that this year the Biden administration not cut and paste their annual proclamation for TDOV, is both shortsighted and selfish. Easter wasn't negatively impacted in any way, shape or form by any recognition the administration gave to TDOV.
What's insensitive is demanding that a day that is recognized annually be ignored this one year because a roving holiday happened to coincide with it. I suspect that you won't be asking people not to celebrate April Fool's Day (or national Sourdough Bread Day) on April 1, 2029 which also happens to be Easter Sunday.
I will assume that you had a phenomenal easter with your family, friends and congregation yesterday and that had right wing grifter activists not created all of this faux outrage, you would have had no idea that TDOV existed, just like you did for the prior 14 years.
As I mentioned, it's unfortunate for Biden that this day overlapped with Easter. It clearly was not intentional on the part of the White House to have Easter overlap this year.Unit2Sucks said:First, let me say that I agree with Big C that we have too many "days." Today isn't just April Fool's Day, it's also Take Down Tobacco National Day of Action, National IEP Writing Day, National One Cent Day and National Sourdough Bread Day.calbear93 said:
No skin off my back. Not a surprise this world is broken.
Just stupid politics and example of how Biden is begging to lose.
Even if you have nothing against eating pork or brunch, it would be insensitive to and alienating an important voting bloc for the White House to have a national pork day and celebrate with a pork feast on start of Yum Kippur or celebrate national brunch day on start of Ramadan. No one who is saved is not going to be saved because Easter happened to overlap with transgender day but bad look for Biden. Just example of low EQ folks also running Biden's campaign.
And not all days are created equal, some of these matter to a lot of people. TDOV was started in 2009 and has been recognized each year by the Biden administration. It's not a federal holiday and I suspect that no anti-trans Americans were harmed by the Biden administration's acknowledgment of this day.
As you know, Easter moves around from year to year. It would seem to me that your request, that this year the Biden administration not cut and paste their annual proclamation for TDOV, is both shortsighted and selfish. Easter wasn't negatively impacted in any way, shape or form by any recognition the administration gave to TDOV.
What's insensitive is demanding that a day that is recognized annually be ignored this one year because a roving holiday happened to coincide with it. I suspect that you won't be asking people not to celebrate April Fool's Day (or national Sourdough Bread Day) on April 1, 2029 which also happens to be Easter Sunday.
I will assume that you had a phenomenal easter with your family, friends and congregation yesterday and that had right wing grifter activists not created all of this faux outrage, you would have had no idea that TDOV existed, just like you did for the prior 14 years.
However, this is just pure insensitivity and low EQ to speak out on this on Easter. I think if he just remained silent but instead wished people Happy Easter, there is no vote he would have lost to Trump. Just dumb. We see that all the time among dumb leaders at organizations and among politicians. People who are completely unaware of the sensitivities and then wonder why they are not liked by a group.
How does the White House so poorly manage the narrative on this? They fed this right into the narrative that Biden and the Democrats are hostile to Christians, Catholics, Mormons, and every other religion that treats Easter as a holy day.
I may not be Jewish, but I am sensitive to Jewish holidays. Same with Muslim holidays. Just basic recognition of the heightened sensitivities to religious views. Like you don't insult someone's wife, kids, or parents, you need to be sensitive to their religious beliefs even if you don't share it if you want their votes.
And the problem for Biden is that he will lose more votes not only from suburban white Christians, but also from members of the black community (with a significant population identified as Protestants) and Latinos (with a significant population identified as Catholics). Completely unnecessary foot fault. Makes me wonder what kind of geniuses he has running his campaign.
Just mind-bogglingly insensitive and oblivious when he has to win almost all of the purple states.
I am not sure I follow. Why is a proclamation buried on the white house website that matters to a group you aren't a part of insensitive?calbear93 said:As I mentioned, it's unfortunate for Biden that this day overlapped with Easter. It clearly was not intentional on the part of the White House to have Easter overlap this year.Unit2Sucks said:First, let me say that I agree with Big C that we have too many "days." Today isn't just April Fool's Day, it's also Take Down Tobacco National Day of Action, National IEP Writing Day, National One Cent Day and National Sourdough Bread Day.calbear93 said:
No skin off my back. Not a surprise this world is broken.
Just stupid politics and example of how Biden is begging to lose.
Even if you have nothing against eating pork or brunch, it would be insensitive to and alienating an important voting bloc for the White House to have a national pork day and celebrate with a pork feast on start of Yum Kippur or celebrate national brunch day on start of Ramadan. No one who is saved is not going to be saved because Easter happened to overlap with transgender day but bad look for Biden. Just example of low EQ folks also running Biden's campaign.
And not all days are created equal, some of these matter to a lot of people. TDOV was started in 2009 and has been recognized each year by the Biden administration. It's not a federal holiday and I suspect that no anti-trans Americans were harmed by the Biden administration's acknowledgment of this day.
As you know, Easter moves around from year to year. It would seem to me that your request, that this year the Biden administration not cut and paste their annual proclamation for TDOV, is both shortsighted and selfish. Easter wasn't negatively impacted in any way, shape or form by any recognition the administration gave to TDOV.
What's insensitive is demanding that a day that is recognized annually be ignored this one year because a roving holiday happened to coincide with it. I suspect that you won't be asking people not to celebrate April Fool's Day (or national Sourdough Bread Day) on April 1, 2029 which also happens to be Easter Sunday.
I will assume that you had a phenomenal easter with your family, friends and congregation yesterday and that had right wing grifter activists not created all of this faux outrage, you would have had no idea that TDOV existed, just like you did for the prior 14 years.
However, this is just pure insensitivity and low EQ to speak out on this on Easter. I think if he just remained silent but instead wished people Happy Easter, there is no vote he would have lost to Trump. Just dumb. We see that all the time among dumb leaders at organizations and among politicians. People who are completely unaware of the sensitivities and then wonder why they are not liked by a group.
How does the White House so poorly manage the narrative on this? They fed this right into the narrative that Biden and the Democrats are hostile to Christians, Catholics, Mormons, and every other religion that treats Easter as a holy day.
I may not be Jewish, but I am sensitive to Jewish holidays. Same with Muslim holidays. Just basic recognition of the heightened sensitivities to religious views. Like you don't insult someone's wife, kids, or parents, you need to be sensitive to their religious beliefs even if you don't share it if you want their votes.
And the problem for Biden is that he will lose more votes not only from suburban white Christians, but also from members of the black community (with a significant population identified as Protestants) and Latinos (with a significant population identified as Catholics). Completely unnecessary foot fault. Makes me wonder what kind of geniuses he has running his campaign.
Just mind-bogglingly insensitive and oblivious when he has to win almost all of the purple states.
Recognizing TDOV for 3 years (in the smallest way possible, with a proclamation) and then failing to do so because Easter happens to fall on the same day one year sends a terrible message to people who care about TDOV. Why do you think people who care about Easter would want to send that message?
I think the insensitivity is coming from the anti-trans bigots and that most Christian people are of the love thy neighbor mindset and not bothered at all. If not for the manufactured faux-outrage, you wouldn't care and would never have heard about it, let alone considered it insensitive. No one was offended when this 15-year old "day" was "recognized" by the Biden administration in the exact same way the prior 3 years.
The only hostility I'm seeing here is to people who are hostile to trans people.
OK, I think you are just refusing how this is harmful to Biden's campaign. If you want to say this doesn't hurt him (which is my point that this was a stupid way to alienate voters), then you and I will disagree. My guess is that this will only amplify the narrative that Biden is giving into the "woke" (I know you hate that term) platform and is hostile to religion. Maybe you are right and that this won't hurt his election.Unit2Sucks said:I am not sure I follow. Why is a proclamation buried on the white house website that matters to a group you aren't a part of insensitive?calbear93 said:As I mentioned, it's unfortunate for Biden that this day overlapped with Easter. It clearly was not intentional on the part of the White House to have Easter overlap this year.Unit2Sucks said:First, let me say that I agree with Big C that we have too many "days." Today isn't just April Fool's Day, it's also Take Down Tobacco National Day of Action, National IEP Writing Day, National One Cent Day and National Sourdough Bread Day.calbear93 said:
No skin off my back. Not a surprise this world is broken.
Just stupid politics and example of how Biden is begging to lose.
Even if you have nothing against eating pork or brunch, it would be insensitive to and alienating an important voting bloc for the White House to have a national pork day and celebrate with a pork feast on start of Yum Kippur or celebrate national brunch day on start of Ramadan. No one who is saved is not going to be saved because Easter happened to overlap with transgender day but bad look for Biden. Just example of low EQ folks also running Biden's campaign.
And not all days are created equal, some of these matter to a lot of people. TDOV was started in 2009 and has been recognized each year by the Biden administration. It's not a federal holiday and I suspect that no anti-trans Americans were harmed by the Biden administration's acknowledgment of this day.
As you know, Easter moves around from year to year. It would seem to me that your request, that this year the Biden administration not cut and paste their annual proclamation for TDOV, is both shortsighted and selfish. Easter wasn't negatively impacted in any way, shape or form by any recognition the administration gave to TDOV.
What's insensitive is demanding that a day that is recognized annually be ignored this one year because a roving holiday happened to coincide with it. I suspect that you won't be asking people not to celebrate April Fool's Day (or national Sourdough Bread Day) on April 1, 2029 which also happens to be Easter Sunday.
I will assume that you had a phenomenal easter with your family, friends and congregation yesterday and that had right wing grifter activists not created all of this faux outrage, you would have had no idea that TDOV existed, just like you did for the prior 14 years.
However, this is just pure insensitivity and low EQ to speak out on this on Easter. I think if he just remained silent but instead wished people Happy Easter, there is no vote he would have lost to Trump. Just dumb. We see that all the time among dumb leaders at organizations and among politicians. People who are completely unaware of the sensitivities and then wonder why they are not liked by a group.
How does the White House so poorly manage the narrative on this? They fed this right into the narrative that Biden and the Democrats are hostile to Christians, Catholics, Mormons, and every other religion that treats Easter as a holy day.
I may not be Jewish, but I am sensitive to Jewish holidays. Same with Muslim holidays. Just basic recognition of the heightened sensitivities to religious views. Like you don't insult someone's wife, kids, or parents, you need to be sensitive to their religious beliefs even if you don't share it if you want their votes.
And the problem for Biden is that he will lose more votes not only from suburban white Christians, but also from members of the black community (with a significant population identified as Protestants) and Latinos (with a significant population identified as Catholics). Completely unnecessary foot fault. Makes me wonder what kind of geniuses he has running his campaign.
Just mind-bogglingly insensitive and oblivious when he has to win almost all of the purple states.
Recognizing TDOV for 3 years (in the smallest way possible, with a proclamation) and then failing to do so because Easter happens to fall on the same day one year sends a terrible message to people who care about TDOV. Why do you think people who care about Easter would want to send that message?
I think the insensitivity is coming from the anti-trans bigots and that most Christian people are of the love thy neighbor mindset and not bothered at all. If not for the manufactured faux-outrage, you wouldn't care and would never have heard about it, let alone considered it insensitive. No one was offended when this 15-year old "day" was "recognized" by the Biden administration in the exact same way the prior 3 years.
The only hostility I'm seeing here is to people who are hostile to trans people.
I think you are taking a narrow view here. Biden will always come under attack (as will all politicians). If he decided to stop issuing an annual proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for failing to recognize an important day for LGBTQ people.calbear93 said:OK, I think you are just refusing how this is harmful to Biden's campaign. If you want to say this doesn't hurt him (which is my point that this was a stupid way to alienate voters), then you and I will disagree. My guess is that this will only amplify the narrative that Biden is giving into the "woke" (I know you hate that term) platform and is hostile to religion. Maybe you are right and that this won't hurt his election.Unit2Sucks said:I am not sure I follow. Why is a proclamation buried on the white house website that matters to a group you aren't a part of insensitive?calbear93 said:As I mentioned, it's unfortunate for Biden that this day overlapped with Easter. It clearly was not intentional on the part of the White House to have Easter overlap this year.Unit2Sucks said:First, let me say that I agree with Big C that we have too many "days." Today isn't just April Fool's Day, it's also Take Down Tobacco National Day of Action, National IEP Writing Day, National One Cent Day and National Sourdough Bread Day.calbear93 said:
No skin off my back. Not a surprise this world is broken.
Just stupid politics and example of how Biden is begging to lose.
Even if you have nothing against eating pork or brunch, it would be insensitive to and alienating an important voting bloc for the White House to have a national pork day and celebrate with a pork feast on start of Yum Kippur or celebrate national brunch day on start of Ramadan. No one who is saved is not going to be saved because Easter happened to overlap with transgender day but bad look for Biden. Just example of low EQ folks also running Biden's campaign.
And not all days are created equal, some of these matter to a lot of people. TDOV was started in 2009 and has been recognized each year by the Biden administration. It's not a federal holiday and I suspect that no anti-trans Americans were harmed by the Biden administration's acknowledgment of this day.
As you know, Easter moves around from year to year. It would seem to me that your request, that this year the Biden administration not cut and paste their annual proclamation for TDOV, is both shortsighted and selfish. Easter wasn't negatively impacted in any way, shape or form by any recognition the administration gave to TDOV.
What's insensitive is demanding that a day that is recognized annually be ignored this one year because a roving holiday happened to coincide with it. I suspect that you won't be asking people not to celebrate April Fool's Day (or national Sourdough Bread Day) on April 1, 2029 which also happens to be Easter Sunday.
I will assume that you had a phenomenal easter with your family, friends and congregation yesterday and that had right wing grifter activists not created all of this faux outrage, you would have had no idea that TDOV existed, just like you did for the prior 14 years.
However, this is just pure insensitivity and low EQ to speak out on this on Easter. I think if he just remained silent but instead wished people Happy Easter, there is no vote he would have lost to Trump. Just dumb. We see that all the time among dumb leaders at organizations and among politicians. People who are completely unaware of the sensitivities and then wonder why they are not liked by a group.
How does the White House so poorly manage the narrative on this? They fed this right into the narrative that Biden and the Democrats are hostile to Christians, Catholics, Mormons, and every other religion that treats Easter as a holy day.
I may not be Jewish, but I am sensitive to Jewish holidays. Same with Muslim holidays. Just basic recognition of the heightened sensitivities to religious views. Like you don't insult someone's wife, kids, or parents, you need to be sensitive to their religious beliefs even if you don't share it if you want their votes.
And the problem for Biden is that he will lose more votes not only from suburban white Christians, but also from members of the black community (with a significant population identified as Protestants) and Latinos (with a significant population identified as Catholics). Completely unnecessary foot fault. Makes me wonder what kind of geniuses he has running his campaign.
Just mind-bogglingly insensitive and oblivious when he has to win almost all of the purple states.
Recognizing TDOV for 3 years (in the smallest way possible, with a proclamation) and then failing to do so because Easter happens to fall on the same day one year sends a terrible message to people who care about TDOV. Why do you think people who care about Easter would want to send that message?
I think the insensitivity is coming from the anti-trans bigots and that most Christian people are of the love thy neighbor mindset and not bothered at all. If not for the manufactured faux-outrage, you wouldn't care and would never have heard about it, let alone considered it insensitive. No one was offended when this 15-year old "day" was "recognized" by the Biden administration in the exact same way the prior 3 years.
The only hostility I'm seeing here is to people who are hostile to trans people.
What you seem to be saying, is that his issuing an annual proclamation about TDOV is somehow alienating people who celebrate Easter. Why is that? Do you feel like your interest are somehow at odds with recognizing a day that is important to other people?
You may very well be right that this is harmful to Biden's campaign. I'm not sure whether that makes this the wrong decision or not. I would prefer that our politicians do the right thing and that we elect politicians who do the right thing. Our country and voters seem to be entirely subject to manipulation by a variety of interested parties in a wide manner of ways. This is coming from all sides. Left and right wing grifters and extremists, foreign interests like Russia and China, and different political factions. The one thing that they all have in common is that they think they are better off with the US divided.
I am genuinely curious as to why you believe what you do. Is it because you are opposed to Biden's proclamation in and of itself or just don't like it coinciding with Easter? According to the administration, Biden's made almost 600 proclamations so far. Why do you think people were activated to blow this one out of proportion? I think if the starting point is "make everyone happy, including people constituents who are opposed to other constituents" then people need to understand that Biden is often put in the position of choosing the lesser of two evils. It's unclear to me that he would have gotten any "credit" for failing to proclaim TDOV this year and likely would have been under attack by people who care about it. Just like the no-win situation in Gaza, this was destined to be a loser for him.
Come this November, Biden will be campaigning on a strong economy, the return to stability in our executive branch and avoiding another disastrous Trump presdency. His opponent will be focused on a large number of meaningless random gripes, possibly including the sort of non-sense nothingburger controversy we are discussing here.
If you think this will matter in a few months, let alone November when people go to cast their vote, I will be quite surprised.
Biden will always come under attack. Doesn't mean he has to feed the narrative with fresh meat.Unit2Sucks said:I think you are taking a narrow view here. Biden will always come under attack (as will all politicians). If he decided to stop issuing an annual proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for failing to recognize an important day for LGBTQ people.calbear93 said:OK, I think you are just refusing how this is harmful to Biden's campaign. If you want to say this doesn't hurt him (which is my point that this was a stupid way to alienate voters), then you and I will disagree. My guess is that this will only amplify the narrative that Biden is giving into the "woke" (I know you hate that term) platform and is hostile to religion. Maybe you are right and that this won't hurt his election.Unit2Sucks said:I am not sure I follow. Why is a proclamation buried on the white house website that matters to a group you aren't a part of insensitive?calbear93 said:As I mentioned, it's unfortunate for Biden that this day overlapped with Easter. It clearly was not intentional on the part of the White House to have Easter overlap this year.Unit2Sucks said:First, let me say that I agree with Big C that we have too many "days." Today isn't just April Fool's Day, it's also Take Down Tobacco National Day of Action, National IEP Writing Day, National One Cent Day and National Sourdough Bread Day.calbear93 said:
No skin off my back. Not a surprise this world is broken.
Just stupid politics and example of how Biden is begging to lose.
Even if you have nothing against eating pork or brunch, it would be insensitive to and alienating an important voting bloc for the White House to have a national pork day and celebrate with a pork feast on start of Yum Kippur or celebrate national brunch day on start of Ramadan. No one who is saved is not going to be saved because Easter happened to overlap with transgender day but bad look for Biden. Just example of low EQ folks also running Biden's campaign.
And not all days are created equal, some of these matter to a lot of people. TDOV was started in 2009 and has been recognized each year by the Biden administration. It's not a federal holiday and I suspect that no anti-trans Americans were harmed by the Biden administration's acknowledgment of this day.
As you know, Easter moves around from year to year. It would seem to me that your request, that this year the Biden administration not cut and paste their annual proclamation for TDOV, is both shortsighted and selfish. Easter wasn't negatively impacted in any way, shape or form by any recognition the administration gave to TDOV.
What's insensitive is demanding that a day that is recognized annually be ignored this one year because a roving holiday happened to coincide with it. I suspect that you won't be asking people not to celebrate April Fool's Day (or national Sourdough Bread Day) on April 1, 2029 which also happens to be Easter Sunday.
I will assume that you had a phenomenal easter with your family, friends and congregation yesterday and that had right wing grifter activists not created all of this faux outrage, you would have had no idea that TDOV existed, just like you did for the prior 14 years.
However, this is just pure insensitivity and low EQ to speak out on this on Easter. I think if he just remained silent but instead wished people Happy Easter, there is no vote he would have lost to Trump. Just dumb. We see that all the time among dumb leaders at organizations and among politicians. People who are completely unaware of the sensitivities and then wonder why they are not liked by a group.
How does the White House so poorly manage the narrative on this? They fed this right into the narrative that Biden and the Democrats are hostile to Christians, Catholics, Mormons, and every other religion that treats Easter as a holy day.
I may not be Jewish, but I am sensitive to Jewish holidays. Same with Muslim holidays. Just basic recognition of the heightened sensitivities to religious views. Like you don't insult someone's wife, kids, or parents, you need to be sensitive to their religious beliefs even if you don't share it if you want their votes.
And the problem for Biden is that he will lose more votes not only from suburban white Christians, but also from members of the black community (with a significant population identified as Protestants) and Latinos (with a significant population identified as Catholics). Completely unnecessary foot fault. Makes me wonder what kind of geniuses he has running his campaign.
Just mind-bogglingly insensitive and oblivious when he has to win almost all of the purple states.
Recognizing TDOV for 3 years (in the smallest way possible, with a proclamation) and then failing to do so because Easter happens to fall on the same day one year sends a terrible message to people who care about TDOV. Why do you think people who care about Easter would want to send that message?
I think the insensitivity is coming from the anti-trans bigots and that most Christian people are of the love thy neighbor mindset and not bothered at all. If not for the manufactured faux-outrage, you wouldn't care and would never have heard about it, let alone considered it insensitive. No one was offended when this 15-year old "day" was "recognized" by the Biden administration in the exact same way the prior 3 years.
The only hostility I'm seeing here is to people who are hostile to trans people.
What you seem to be saying, is that his issuing an annual proclamation about TDOV is somehow alienating people who celebrate Easter. Why is that? Do you feel like your interest are somehow at odds with recognizing a day that is important to other people?
You may very well be right that this is harmful to Biden's campaign. I'm not sure whether that makes this the wrong decision or not. I would prefer that our politicians do the right thing and that we elect politicians who do the right thing. Our country and voters seem to be entirely subject to manipulation by a variety of interested parties in a wide manner of ways. This is coming from all sides. Left and right wing grifters and extremists, foreign interests like Russia and China, and different political factions. The one thing that they all have in common is that they think they are better off with the US divided.
I am genuinely curious as to why you believe what you do. Is it because you are opposed to Biden's proclamation in and of itself or just don't like it coinciding with Easter? According to the administration, Biden's made almost 600 proclamations so far. Why do you think people were activated to blow this one out of proportion? I think if the starting point is "make everyone happy, including people constituents who are opposed to other constituents" then people need to understand that Biden is often put in the position of choosing the lesser of two evils. It's unclear to me that he would have gotten any "credit" for failing to proclaim TDOV this year and likely would have been under attack by people who care about it. Just like the no-win situation in Gaza, this was destined to be a loser for him.
Come this November, Biden will be campaigning on a strong economy, the return to stability in our executive branch and avoiding another disastrous Trump presdency. His opponent will be focused on a large number of meaningless random gripes, possibly including the sort of non-sense nothingburger controversy we are discussing here.
If you think this will matter in a few months, let alone November when people go to cast their vote, I will be quite surprised.
Let's assume that there was a small group of pig farmers who wanted to make sure that pork was promoted. So they select a national pork celebration day. It just happened to fall on the same day as Yom Kippur in a specific year. If a Jewish president then celebrated national pork day on Yum Kippur during a very controversial and heavily contested election where a segment wants to portray him as someone who, while claiming to be Jewish, promotes positions that support Gaza, would that be smart move? Would it be smarter to just wait until after Yum Kippur instead of taking the position as to why the pig farmers should be ignored on their day just because of the Jewish population? Should he ask, "well why should the Jewish population be insulted that I promoted pork day on Yum Kippur? Did that ruin their own Yum Kippur? Are not pig farmers important members of America? Should I cater to the Jewish population and not celebrate pork?"
As I mentioned, it was no skin off my back. I don't consider him Christian, and I don't even think many Catholics consider him Catholic. It did not ruin my Easter. It also did not really help anyone, including LGBTQ (who will become more the target of far right without any additional protection or benefit for them as opposed to if Biden had belatedly recognized them today), other than Trump. It helped Trump and hurt Biden. If Biden is just an impractical true believer who will just do what he thinks is right no matter the consequences, then he probably doesn't have the right common sense to be president again. And his campaign team is stupid for helping Trump.
Why aren't you seeing the other side of this? If he decided this year not to issue the proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for it and there would be people saying he didn't need to cave to bigots.calbear93 said:Biden will always come under attack. Doesn't mean he has to feed the narrative with fresh meat.Unit2Sucks said:I think you are taking a narrow view here. Biden will always come under attack (as will all politicians). If he decided to stop issuing an annual proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for failing to recognize an important day for LGBTQ people.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:calbear93 said:
There is no way to make everyone happy and you seem to think that he pissed more people off with this tradeoff than he satisfied. I would argue that the only people mad about this are bigots. The rest are just pretending to care.
Almost everything the POTUS does is a tradeoff
Very few people will remember the TDOV/Easter outrage of the weekend in November except for people that weren't going to vote for Biden anyway.
Yes, it reminds me of the recent fake controversy where the GOP extracted a minor concession that US embassies couldn't fly pride flags for a few months.Eastern Oregon Bear said:
Very few people will remember the TDOV/Easter outrage of the weekend in November except for people that weren't going to vote for Biden anyway.
Biden either had to accept this relatively minor, and completely pointless anti-woke posturing by unserious conservatives, or he had to risk another GOP initiated government shutdown.
This caused unhinged leftists to pretend that Biden has abandoned progressives and would lose all of his LGBTQ support and therefore lose the election.
None of this stuff really matters but because the GOP has nothing of substance to run on, this is where they focus their energy. They don't want to deliver results for the American people, they just want to score meaningless bigoted victories, and hope that they can suppress progressive votes by saying that Biden isn't as progressive as he should be. The GOP is terrified because they know that if enough Americans vote, they can't possibly win.
Unit2Sucks said:
This caused unhinged leftists to pretend that Biden has abandoned progressives and would lose all of his LGBTQ support and therefore lose the election.
Isn't the Biden administration pandering to these unhinged leftists because the Biden administration is filled with unhinged leftists?
I'm glad my President doesn't cater to Christians who are bigots. There are a lot of them so it might hurt Biden's campaign. The growing number of non bigoted Americans will just have to win.
dajo9 said:
I'm glad my President doesn't cater to Christians who are bigots. There are a lot of them so it might hurt Biden's campaign. The growing number of non bigoted Americans will just have to win.
Is Joe Biden also a victim of bigotry?
Unit2Sucks said:Why aren't you seeing the other side of this? If he decided this year not to issue the proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for it and there would be people saying he didn't need to cave to bigots.calbear93 said:Biden will always come under attack. Doesn't mean he has to feed the narrative with fresh meat.Unit2Sucks said:I think you are taking a narrow view here. Biden will always come under attack (as will all politicians). If he decided to stop issuing an annual proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for failing to recognize an important day for LGBTQ people.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:calbear93 said:
There is no way to make everyone happy and you seem to think that he pissed more people off with this tradeoff than he satisfied. I would argue that the only people mad about this are bigots. The rest are just pretending to care.
Almost everything the POTUS does is a tradeoff
Will those people who would have criticized Biden for not speaking up on Easter ever vote for Trump? Or not vote for Biden and increase Trump's chances? Or live in battleground states in large percentage? If your view is that middle class or upper middle class suburbanites and Christian or Catholic minorities are bigots and you don't care about losing their votes, then you overestimate Biden's chances of winning. Not everyone who will view this negatively are bigots any more than people who shade Christians as bigots are themselves bigots.
I'm not the one calling Christians bigots. You are the one implying they won't vote for Biden because he recognized TDOV this year, just like he does every year. I'm not sure why you believe that he will lose votes for making a proclamation this year but that he wouldn't lose votes if he chose to do things differently this year. Perhaps you are clouded by your personal views on the nature of the two different eventts.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:Why aren't you seeing the other side of this? If he decided this year not to issue the proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for it and there would be people saying he didn't need to cave to bigots.calbear93 said:Biden will always come under attack. Doesn't mean he has to feed the narrative with fresh meat.Unit2Sucks said:
I think you are taking a narrow view here. Biden will always come under attack (as will all politicians). If he decided to stop issuing an annual proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for failing to recognize an important day for LGBTQ people.
There is no way to make everyone happy and you seem to think that he pissed more people off with this tradeoff than he satisfied. I would argue that the only people mad about this are bigots. The rest are just pretending to care.
Almost everything the POTUS does is a tradeoff
Will those people who would have criticized Biden for not speaking up on Easter ever vote for Trump? Or not vote for Biden and increase Trump's chances? Or live in battleground states in large percentage? If your view is that middle class or upper middle class suburbanites and Christian or Catholic minorities are bigots and you don't care about losing their votes, then you overestimate Biden's chances of winning. Not everyone who will view this negatively are bigots any more than people who shade Christians as bigots are themselves bigots.
You still haven't told us why you think it is that certain people who celebrate Easter will be offended by a different day randomly coinciding with Easter this year. If it's not bigotry, what is it that you think makes it so important that they won't for Biden?
My view is that this is a non-issue and that people who celebrate Easter should be pleased that the White House maintained its annual Easter day traditional celebration and that people who care about TDOV should be pleased that the White House maintained it's annual TDOV proclamation and recognition. If Biden cancelled the Easter tradition in favor of TDOV, I would understand why that would offend people. I don't understand why you can't see that the reverse is also true and that you are essentially demanding that the White House choose not to recognize an important day to his constituents in favor of an important day (with religious significance) to other of his constituents.
I think that if we replaced Easter with a non-religious holiday (say Earth Day), you might have a different reaction.
Unit2Sucks said:I'm not the one calling Christians bigots. You are the one implying they won't vote for Biden because he recognized TDOV this year, just like he does every year. I'm not sure why you believe that he will lose votes for making a proclamation this year but that he wouldn't lose votes if he chose to do things differently this year. Perhaps you are clouded by your personal views on the nature of the two different eventts.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:Why aren't you seeing the other side of this? If he decided this year not to issue the proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for it and there would be people saying he didn't need to cave to bigots.calbear93 said:Biden will always come under attack. Doesn't mean he has to feed the narrative with fresh meat.Unit2Sucks said:
I think you are taking a narrow view here. Biden will always come under attack (as will all politicians). If he decided to stop issuing an annual proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for failing to recognize an important day for LGBTQ people.
There is no way to make everyone happy and you seem to think that he pissed more people off with this tradeoff than he satisfied. I would argue that the only people mad about this are bigots. The rest are just pretending to care.
Almost everything the POTUS does is a tradeoff
Will those people who would have criticized Biden for not speaking up on Easter ever vote for Trump? Or not vote for Biden and increase Trump's chances? Or live in battleground states in large percentage? If your view is that middle class or upper middle class suburbanites and Christian or Catholic minorities are bigots and you don't care about losing their votes, then you overestimate Biden's chances of winning. Not everyone who will view this negatively are bigots any more than people who shade Christians as bigots are themselves bigots.
You still haven't told us why you think it is that certain people who celebrate Easter will be offended by a different day randomly coinciding with Easter this year. If it's not bigotry, what is it that you think makes it so important that they won't for Biden?
My view is that this is a non-issue and that people who celebrate Easter should be pleased that the White House maintained its annual Easter day traditional celebration and that people who care about TDOV should be pleased that the White House maintained it's annual TDOV proclamation and recognition. If Biden cancelled the Easter tradition in favor of TDOV, I would understand why that would offend people. I don't understand why you can't see that the reverse is also true and that you are essentially demanding that the White House choose not to recognize an important day to his constituents in favor of an important day (with religious significance) to other of his constituents.
I think that if we replaced Easter with a non-religious holiday (say Earth Day), you might have a different reaction.
You are still talking past what I wrote. And I explained why it may be insensitive. I even gave a whole analogy on Yum Kippur and pig farmers. You just aren't reading it because you want to make a separate point, which is fine. If you want to clarify that Christian think transgenderism is a sin, yes. Just like greed or anything else that is broken. But you already know that so not the big concession you think it is.
I will just boil it down to one simple comment. This act, whether justifiable or not, hurt him because he is not getting any new votes over this but can potentially lose votes. All this did was help Trump.
I keep telling you why it hurts Biden, you ignore my explanation, and then ask again why. Because voting is often about who you like and who you trust to represent your views and make your life better. And not everyone has the same sensibilities that you do. What vote was he going to lose by not saying anything?
Now, he fed into the narrative, whether fair or not, that he gives into the "woke" special interest and is hostile to religion. You can rationalize why it shouldn't be but some in the battleground states who are tired of Trump may pause voting for Biden thinking Biden doesn't represent them either. Will they listen to detailed rationale from you why they shouldn't feel that way? No. They may already be thinking that the far left has his ear, and the rhetoric on the far right on this may reinforce it even if they don't like Trump either.
So, just based on simple math, Biden was already more likely to lose than win. He needs to win the central votes in battleground states,-and Trump and far right will (as they have been) play this up as example of Biden being "woke". Doesn't matter what you believe. Your vote isn't critical. You are not voting for Trump ever and you live in CA. People he needs to win over are independents in Michigan, Wisconsin, etc who are not completely sold on Biden like you are. They may not dismiss this like you are.
That simple point is what I have been repeating over and over and you keep talking past that point.
calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:I'm not the one calling Christians bigots. You are the one implying they won't vote for Biden because he recognized TDOV this year, just like he does every year. I'm not sure why you believe that he will lose votes for making a proclamation this year but that he wouldn't lose votes if he chose to do things differently this year. Perhaps you are clouded by your personal views on the nature of the two different eventts.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:Why aren't you seeing the other side of this? If he decided this year not to issue the proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for it and there would be people saying he didn't need to cave to bigots.calbear93 said:Biden will always come under attack. Doesn't mean he has to feed the narrative with fresh meat.Unit2Sucks said:
I think you are taking a narrow view here. Biden will always come under attack (as will all politicians). If he decided to stop issuing an annual proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for failing to recognize an important day for LGBTQ people.
There is no way to make everyone happy and you seem to think that he pissed more people off with this tradeoff than he satisfied. I would argue that the only people mad about this are bigots. The rest are just pretending to care.
Almost everything the POTUS does is a tradeoff
Will those people who would have criticized Biden for not speaking up on Easter ever vote for Trump? Or not vote for Biden and increase Trump's chances? Or live in battleground states in large percentage? If your view is that middle class or upper middle class suburbanites and Christian or Catholic minorities are bigots and you don't care about losing their votes, then you overestimate Biden's chances of winning. Not everyone who will view this negatively are bigots any more than people who shade Christians as bigots are themselves bigots.
You still haven't told us why you think it is that certain people who celebrate Easter will be offended by a different day randomly coinciding with Easter this year. If it's not bigotry, what is it that you think makes it so important that they won't for Biden?
My view is that this is a non-issue and that people who celebrate Easter should be pleased that the White House maintained its annual Easter day traditional celebration and that people who care about TDOV should be pleased that the White House maintained it's annual TDOV proclamation and recognition. If Biden cancelled the Easter tradition in favor of TDOV, I would understand why that would offend people. I don't understand why you can't see that the reverse is also true and that you are essentially demanding that the White House choose not to recognize an important day to his constituents in favor of an important day (with religious significance) to other of his constituents.
I think that if we replaced Easter with a non-religious holiday (say Earth Day), you might have a different reaction.
You are still talking past what I wrote. And I explained why it may be insensitive. I even gave a whole analogy on Yum Kippur and pig farmers. You just aren't reading it because you want to make a separate point, which is fine. If you want to clarify that Christian think transgenderism is a sin, yes. Just like greed or anything else that is broken. But you already know that so not the big concession you think it is.
I will just boil it down to one simple comment. This act, whether justifiable or not, hurt him because he is not getting any new votes over this but can potentially lose votes. All this did was help Trump.
I keep telling you why it hurts Biden, you ignore my explanation, and then ask again why. Because voting is often about who you like and who you trust to represent your views and make your life better. And not everyone has the same sensibilities that you do. What vote was he going to lose by not saying anything?
Now, he fed into the narrative, whether fair or not, that he gives into the "woke" special interest and is hostile to religion. You can rationalize why it shouldn't be but some in the battleground states who are tired of Trump may pause voting for Biden thinking Biden doesn't represent them either. Will they listen to detailed rationale from you why they shouldn't feel that way? No. They may already be thinking that the far left has his ear, and the rhetoric on the far right on this may reinforce it even if they don't like Trump either.
So, just based on simple math, Biden was already more likely to lose than win. He needs to win the central votes in battleground states,-and Trump and far right will (as they have been) play this up as example of Biden being "woke". Doesn't matter what you believe. Your vote isn't critical. You are not voting for Trump ever and you live in CA. People he needs to win over are independents in Michigan, Wisconsin, etc who are not completely sold on Biden like you are. They may not dismiss this like you are.
That simple point is what I have been repeating over and over and you keep talking past that point.
We can agree to disagree on this one. I think Biden has a significant incumbency advantage and this sort of faux outrage nonsense is a desperate attempt by that failing MAGA movement to convince good people like you to make a bad decision. I don't think anyone will be talking about this in 2 weeks let alone 6 months.
Trump will literally be on trial and you think undecided voters are going to shift to him because Biden's administration made one of his 600+ proclamations on a day that happened to coincide with Easter?
Your point is very clear and obvious. You don't gain votes by pandering to the hard core base while alienating people in the middle who in reality are the only swing voters. This applies to both parties - lots of examples of republicans/Trump doing the same stupid thing. Trump probably lost the 2020 election because he did things like this.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:I'm not the one calling Christians bigots. You are the one implying they won't vote for Biden because he recognized TDOV this year, just like he does every year. I'm not sure why you believe that he will lose votes for making a proclamation this year but that he wouldn't lose votes if he chose to do things differently this year. Perhaps you are clouded by your personal views on the nature of the two different eventts.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:Why aren't you seeing the other side of this? If he decided this year not to issue the proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for it and there would be people saying he didn't need to cave to bigots.calbear93 said:Biden will always come under attack. Doesn't mean he has to feed the narrative with fresh meat.Unit2Sucks said:
I think you are taking a narrow view here. Biden will always come under attack (as will all politicians). If he decided to stop issuing an annual proclamation for TDOV, he would be attacked for failing to recognize an important day for LGBTQ people.
There is no way to make everyone happy and you seem to think that he pissed more people off with this tradeoff than he satisfied. I would argue that the only people mad about this are bigots. The rest are just pretending to care.
Almost everything the POTUS does is a tradeoff
Will those people who would have criticized Biden for not speaking up on Easter ever vote for Trump? Or not vote for Biden and increase Trump's chances? Or live in battleground states in large percentage? If your view is that middle class or upper middle class suburbanites and Christian or Catholic minorities are bigots and you don't care about losing their votes, then you overestimate Biden's chances of winning. Not everyone who will view this negatively are bigots any more than people who shade Christians as bigots are themselves bigots.
You still haven't told us why you think it is that certain people who celebrate Easter will be offended by a different day randomly coinciding with Easter this year. If it's not bigotry, what is it that you think makes it so important that they won't for Biden?
My view is that this is a non-issue and that people who celebrate Easter should be pleased that the White House maintained its annual Easter day traditional celebration and that people who care about TDOV should be pleased that the White House maintained it's annual TDOV proclamation and recognition. If Biden cancelled the Easter tradition in favor of TDOV, I would understand why that would offend people. I don't understand why you can't see that the reverse is also true and that you are essentially demanding that the White House choose not to recognize an important day to his constituents in favor of an important day (with religious significance) to other of his constituents.
I think that if we replaced Easter with a non-religious holiday (say Earth Day), you might have a different reaction.
You are still talking past what I wrote. And I explained why it may be insensitive. I even gave a whole analogy on Yum Kippur and pig farmers. You just aren't reading it because you want to make a separate point, which is fine. If you want to clarify that Christian think transgenderism is a sin, yes. Just like greed or anything else that is broken. But you already know that so not the big concession you think it is.
I will just boil it down to one simple comment. This act, whether justifiable or not, hurt him because he is not getting any new votes over this but can potentially lose votes. All this did was help Trump.
I keep telling you why it hurts Biden, you ignore my explanation, and then ask again why. Because voting is often about who you like and who you trust to represent your views and make your life better. And not everyone has the same sensibilities that you do. What vote was he going to lose by not saying anything?
Now, he fed into the narrative, whether fair or not, that he gives into the "woke" special interest and is hostile to religion. You can rationalize why it shouldn't be but some in the battleground states who are tired of Trump may pause voting for Biden thinking Biden doesn't represent them either. Will they listen to detailed rationale from you why they shouldn't feel that way? No. They may already be thinking that the far left has his ear, and the rhetoric on the far right on this may reinforce it even if they don't like Trump either.
So, just based on simple math, Biden was already more likely to lose than win. He needs to win the central votes in battleground states,-and Trump and far right will (as they have been) play this up as example of Biden being "woke". Doesn't matter what you believe. Your vote isn't critical. You are not voting for Trump ever and you live in CA. People he needs to win over are independents in Michigan, Wisconsin, etc who are not completely sold on Biden like you are. They may not dismiss this like you are.
That simple point is what I have been repeating over and over and you keep talking past that point.
The political problem with the TDOV proclamation is that it directly reinforces the negative traits (or perhaps "narrative") that cause many voters to be turned off by Biden. Maybe it was the principled thing to do, but it was politically unwise. The fact that the far lefties loved it is literally irrelevant and seems to prevent them from acknowledging it was, at a minimum, not helpful politically speaking.
It seems to me Biden could/should have issued the TDOV announcement a day early (maybe even have an event at the white house, etc.) and then let Easter be Easter.
Just to be clear, he did issue the TDOV announcement a day early (on March 30th), so you will need to change your narrative to say two days earlier or whatever. On Sunday his focus was entirely on Easter and he said religious-y stuff that was far more genuine than any similar comments Trump has ever made: "reminds us of the power of hope and the promise of Christ's Resurrection. As we gather with loved ones, we remember Jesus' sacrifice. We pray for one another and cherish the blessing of the dawn of new possibilities." You will note that he did not conflate or introduce TDOV in any of his comments about Easter because there is no relation between the two events.BearGoggles said:
It seems to me Biden could/should have issued the TDOV announcement a day early (maybe even have an event at the white house, etc.) and then let Easter be Easter.
This is such a silly fake outrage. No one really cares. It will not have any individual impact on the election. The guy running against Biden is an actual extremist who has said he wants to be a dictator on day one and whose team is preparing to implement a radical agenda and you are pretending like Biden issuing a meaningless proclamation is an issue.
I concede that it's possible that America makes a disastrous choice in November and re-elects Trump, and that if it happens the constant stream of fake outrage may contribute to overwhelming swing voters with this sort of propaganda, but you can't honestly pretend like anyone actually cares about this stuff.
And just to pile on, almost every public statement that a politician makes is pandering. Why is Biden making comments about Jesus' resurrection not just pandering to Christians? There is no official government business having anything to do with Jesus dying for people's sins or being resurrected. He's not allowed to advance Christianity or Catholicism as a state religion or otherwise violate the first amendment, so he has to make similar pronouncements on other religious holy days. In the past year, he has made public pronouncements about passover, diwali, ramadan and other non-Christian religions. Were those pandering as well? Or is it only pandering when he makes comments about non-religious moments that some people care about?
In a few days you guys will have a new fake outrage event which Christopher Rufo and other right wing extremists will use to activate the conservative movement and which no one will really care about but will be weaponized against Biden. Sure, people like you will say, Trump is facing 80+ felony charges and is a horrible person, but Biden didn't use his hand single while making a left hand turn on his bicycle. This is what you guys have to do in order to avoid acknowledging that Biden's presidency has taken us away from the chaos of Trump and toward peace and prosperity. You all know that Trump would bring us right back to chaos but you continue to do everything you can to ensure that he's elected even while claiming not to support him.
If he did release it the day before, then I agree this seems over blown. But it was also politically stupid.Unit2Sucks said:Just to be clear, he did issue the TDOV announcement a day early (on March 30th), so you will need to change your narrative to say two days earlier or whatever. On Sunday his focus was entirely on Easter and he said religious-y stuff that was far more genuine than any similar comments Trump has ever made: "reminds us of the power of hope and the promise of Christ's Resurrection. As we gather with loved ones, we remember Jesus' sacrifice. We pray for one another and cherish the blessing of the dawn of new possibilities." You will note that he did not conflate or introduce TDOV in any of his comments about Easter because there is no relation between the two events.BearGoggles said:
It seems to me Biden could/should have issued the TDOV announcement a day early (maybe even have an event at the white house, etc.) and then let Easter be Easter.
This is such a silly fake outrage. No one really cares. It will not have any individual impact on the election. The guy running against Biden is an actual extremist who has said he wants to be a dictator on day one and whose team is preparing to implement a radical agenda and you are pretending like Biden issuing a meaningless proclamation is an issue.
I concede that it's possible that America makes a disastrous choice in November and re-elects Trump, and that if it happens the constant stream of fake outrage may contribute to overwhelming swing voters with this sort of propaganda, but you can't honestly pretend like anyone actually cares about this stuff.
And just to pile on, almost every public statement that a politician makes is pandering. Why is Biden making comments about Jesus' resurrection not just pandering to Christians? There is no official government business having anything to do with Jesus dying for people's sins or being resurrected. He's not allowed to advance Christianity or Catholicism as a state religion or otherwise violate the first amendment, so he has to make similar pronouncements on other religious holy days. In the past year, he has made public pronouncements about passover, diwali, ramadan and other non-Christian religions. Were those pandering as well? Or is it only pandering when he makes comments about non-religious moments that some people care about?
In a few days you guys will have a new fake outrage event which Christopher Rufo and other right wing extremists will use to activate the conservative movement and which no one will really care about but will be weaponized against Biden. Sure, people like you will say, Trump is facing 80+ felony charges and is a horrible person, but Biden didn't use his hand single while making a left hand turn on his bicycle. This is what you guys have to do in order to avoid acknowledging that Biden's presidency has taken us away from the chaos of Trump and toward peace and prosperity. You all know that Trump would bring us right back to chaos but you continue to do everything you can to ensure that he's elected even while claiming not to support him.
It is remarkable that you simply assume that because you 'don't care about this stuff" others do not. The political and social demands of the Trans movement are very much a political hot button whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Celebrating Easter, Passover, Ramadan, etc. is not controversial. Biden, who professes to be Catholic, is not pandering by celebrating his own faith.
And, as usual, you continue to make specious allegations about me. Its absurd to say I do "everything" to ensure he's elected when I've done nothing - didn't vote for him, haven't given him a dollar, etc. I've repeatedly said he's a horrible person and his behavior is not in any way presidential. Your definition of "everything" is certainly unusual.
In terms of chaos, it is pick your poison. Biden and his administration have created their own chaos, albeit in very different ways than Trump. Multiple wars, inflation, border/immigration mayhem, aggressive tactics from China and Russia, and many foreign policy missteps all fall on Biden. Biden also has his own set of moral failings, notably his families grifting.
Barring a last minute change, the election choices are awful. People with TDS have no ability to see that and/or acknowledge that people on both sides are voting for WHAT THEY PERCEIVE as the least bad candidate.
I think you are smart enough that the bolded section is unfair and unworthy of you. We are talking about EQ and sensitivity, which the left seems to be very aware of emphasizing except when it comes to one specific religion.Unit2Sucks said:Just to be clear, he did issue the TDOV announcement a day early (on March 30th), so you will need to change your narrative to say two days earlier or whatever. On Sunday his focus was entirely on Easter and he said religious-y stuff that was far more genuine than any similar comments Trump has ever made: "reminds us of the power of hope and the promise of Christ's Resurrection. As we gather with loved ones, we remember Jesus' sacrifice. We pray for one another and cherish the blessing of the dawn of new possibilities." You will note that he did not conflate or introduce TDOV in any of his comments about Easter because there is no relation between the two events.BearGoggles said:
It seems to me Biden could/should have issued the TDOV announcement a day early (maybe even have an event at the white house, etc.) and then let Easter be Easter.
This is such a silly fake outrage. No one really cares. It will not have any individual impact on the election. The guy running against Biden is an actual extremist who has said he wants to be a dictator on day one and whose team is preparing to implement a radical agenda and you are pretending like Biden issuing a meaningless proclamation is an issue.
I concede that it's possible that America makes a disastrous choice in November and re-elects Trump, and that if it happens the constant stream of fake outrage may contribute to overwhelming swing voters with this sort of propaganda, but you can't honestly pretend like anyone actually cares about this stuff.
And just to pile on, almost every public statement that a politician makes is pandering. Why is Biden making comments about Jesus' resurrection not just pandering to Christians? There is no official government business having anything to do with Jesus dying for people's sins or being resurrected. He's not allowed to advance Christianity or Catholicism as a state religion or otherwise violate the first amendment, so he has to make similar pronouncements on other religious holy days. In the past year, he has made public pronouncements about passover, diwali, ramadan and other non-Christian religions. Were those pandering as well? Or is it only pandering when he makes comments about non-religious moments that some people care about?
In a few days you guys will have a new fake outrage event which Christopher Rufo and other right wing extremists will use to activate the conservative movement and which no one will really care about but will be weaponized against Biden. Sure, people like you will say, Trump is facing 80+ felony charges and is a horrible person, but Biden didn't use his hand single while making a left hand turn on his bicycle. This is what you guys have to do in order to avoid acknowledging that Biden's presidency has taken us away from the chaos of Trump and toward peace and prosperity. You all know that Trump would bring us right back to chaos but you continue to do everything you can to ensure that he's elected even while claiming not to support him.
It's like someone who likes watermelon. Maybe have sufficient EQ and sensitivity not to promote that on the start of Black History month? Doesn't mean that's pandering. I think a president represents all, so I am glad he made public announcements about passover, diwali, etc. I am extremely in favor of religious respect and freedom, including those for non-Christians. I hope I have made myself clear (sometimes people want to assume what is convenient and ignore what has actually been written) that I am against establishing any official religion. I believe that even if I think it's stupidity to remove things like "So Help Me God" or "In God we Trust" since no one really takes those things as actual religious promotion just like someone using 2024 to signify the current year is not promoting Christianity even though 2024 means A.D., or year in our Lord Jesus Christ.
If I were hoping for Trump to win, I would be chuckling instead of shaking my head at the stupidity of this foot fault when Biden needs so much to go right. Biden is losing votes to Trump even among young minority males. When you look at the electoral map, there is very little cushion for Biden. He needs to play this well with the independents and young minority males most of whom are religious. https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/politics/minority-voters-biden-trump-analysis/index.html
I think there is part of you who thinks Trump is so horrible that you are not willing to deal with the tough truth that Trump probably has better odds than Biden right now. I know there is nothing you can do that will really change that. It's really up to Biden and his campaign (who struggles with getting his message across - for example, despite the relatively positive economy, people still think Trump is better for the economy). Biden's campaign needs to up their game. I say this hoping Trump does not win.
You gave one piece of constructive feedback indicating that if he made his proclamation on a different day and "let Easter be Easter" it would have been better. For what it's worth, he actually issued the proclamation 2 days earlier this year (on Friday). That just gave the anti-LGBTQ GOP extremists more time to generate faux outrage.BearGoggles said:If he did release it the day before, then I agree this seems over blown. But it was also politically stupid.Unit2Sucks said:Just to be clear, he did issue the TDOV announcement a day early (on March 30th), so you will need to change your narrative to say two days earlier or whatever. On Sunday his focus was entirely on Easter and he said religious-y stuff that was far more genuine than any similar comments Trump has ever made: "reminds us of the power of hope and the promise of Christ's Resurrection. As we gather with loved ones, we remember Jesus' sacrifice. We pray for one another and cherish the blessing of the dawn of new possibilities." You will note that he did not conflate or introduce TDOV in any of his comments about Easter because there is no relation between the two events.BearGoggles said:
It seems to me Biden could/should have issued the TDOV announcement a day early (maybe even have an event at the white house, etc.) and then let Easter be Easter.
This is such a silly fake outrage. No one really cares. It will not have any individual impact on the election. The guy running against Biden is an actual extremist who has said he wants to be a dictator on day one and whose team is preparing to implement a radical agenda and you are pretending like Biden issuing a meaningless proclamation is an issue.
I concede that it's possible that America makes a disastrous choice in November and re-elects Trump, and that if it happens the constant stream of fake outrage may contribute to overwhelming swing voters with this sort of propaganda, but you can't honestly pretend like anyone actually cares about this stuff.
And just to pile on, almost every public statement that a politician makes is pandering. Why is Biden making comments about Jesus' resurrection not just pandering to Christians? There is no official government business having anything to do with Jesus dying for people's sins or being resurrected. He's not allowed to advance Christianity or Catholicism as a state religion or otherwise violate the first amendment, so he has to make similar pronouncements on other religious holy days. In the past year, he has made public pronouncements about passover, diwali, ramadan and other non-Christian religions. Were those pandering as well? Or is it only pandering when he makes comments about non-religious moments that some people care about?
In a few days you guys will have a new fake outrage event which Christopher Rufo and other right wing extremists will use to activate the conservative movement and which no one will really care about but will be weaponized against Biden. Sure, people like you will say, Trump is facing 80+ felony charges and is a horrible person, but Biden didn't use his hand single while making a left hand turn on his bicycle. This is what you guys have to do in order to avoid acknowledging that Biden's presidency has taken us away from the chaos of Trump and toward peace and prosperity. You all know that Trump would bring us right back to chaos but you continue to do everything you can to ensure that he's elected even while claiming not to support him.
It is remarkable that you simply assume that because you 'don't care about this stuff" others do not. The political and social demands of the Trans movement are very much a political hot button whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Celebrating Easter, Passover, Ramadan, etc. is not controversial. Biden, who professes to be Catholic, is not pandering by celebrating his own faith.
And, as usual, you continue to make specious allegations about me. Its absurd to say I do "everything" to ensure he's elected when I've done nothing - didn't vote for him, haven't given him a dollar, etc. I've repeatedly said he's a horrible person and his behavior is not in any way presidential. Your definition of "everything" is certainly unusual.
In terms of chaos, it is pick your poison. Biden and his administration have created their own chaos, albeit in very different ways than Trump. Multiple wars, inflation, border/immigration mayhem, aggressive tactics from China and Russia, and many foreign policy missteps all fall on Biden. Biden also has his own set of moral failings, notably his families grifting.
Barring a last minute change, the election choices are awful. People with TDS have no ability to see that and/or acknowledge that people on both sides are voting for WHAT THEY PERCEIVE as the least bad candidate.
Then you said "I agree this seems over blown" "If he did" the thing you wanted. There is no "if" here. He made a proclamation two days before Easter. He didn't intermingle his quite religious Easter message with any other message. How hard is it for you to just admit that this is actually overblown, as you surmised it would be if things turned out to be as you said they might be?
calbear93 said:
I think you are smart enough that the bolded section is unfair and unworthy of you. We are talking about EQ and sensitivity, which the left seems to be very aware of emphasizing except when it comes to one specific religion.
It's like someone who likes watermelon. Maybe have sufficient EQ and sensitivity not to promote that on the start of Black History month? Doesn't mean that's pandering. I think a president represents all, so I am glad he made public announcements about passover, diwali, etc. I am extremely in favor of religious respect and freedom, including those for non-Christians. I hope I have made myself clear (sometimes people want to assume what is convenient and ignore what has actually been written) that I am against establishing any official religion. I believe that even if I think it's stupidity to remove things like "So Help Me God" or "In God we Trust" since no one really takes those things as actual religious promotion just like someone using 2024 to signify the current year is not promoting Christianity even though 2024 means A.D., or year in our Lord Jesus Christ.
If I were hoping for Trump to win, I would be chuckling instead of shaking my head at the stupidity of this foot fault when Biden needs so much to go right. Biden is losing votes to Trump even among young minority males. When you look at the electoral map, there is very little cushion for Biden. He needs to play this well with the independents and young minority males most of whom are religious. https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/politics/minority-voters-biden-trump-analysis/index.html
I think there is part of you who thinks Trump is so horrible that you are not willing to deal with the tough truth that Trump probably has better odds than Biden right now. I know there is nothing you can do that will really change that. It's really up to Biden and his campaign (who struggles with getting his message across - for example, despite the relatively positive economy, people still think Trump is better for the economy). Biden's campaign needs to up their game. I say this hoping Trump does not win.
I personally don't have any issues with the fact that Biden (or any President) has to preside over a diverse nation with a lot of separate and even sometimes conflicting interests. I don't like when Presidents tell one group X and another group Y when X and Y are incompatible. Telling old people we will never touch social security while telling rich people we will gut entitlements is a great example.
Where you lose me is when you conflate TDOV with the celebration of Easter from some sort of values-based principal. If people who celebrate Easter have a problem with TDOV, that's a them problem and Biden shouldn't do the wrong thing in order to satisfy prejudiced people. A lot of people have a problem with Christianity but I'm not advocating that Biden alienate or abandon Christians to make them happy. For what it's worth, I don't think most Christians have a problem with the LGBTQ community so I don't think there is any conflict between recognizing both, just like I don't think there would be a problem if 2 religions have holidays that overlap (which is very often the case).
As for the "tough truth" that Trump has better odds, we just have to agree to disagree. I believe that despite being massively unpopular, Trump would have won in 2020 if not for the pandemic. The Biden presidency is likely to be in a very good place this fall - he freed us from our forever war in Afghanistan and the our economy is expected to be humming along. As I have said time and time again, peace and prosperity is what the American people want and it's likely to exist this fall when voters go to the polls. If that's the case, then absent some sort of black swan event, Biden will win. Just like Trump would have had the pandemic not happened (or had he not been a complete moron in his handling of it). Obviously there is a lot of time for a black swan event and the GOP is doing everything it can to precipitate one - including, for example, in preventing congress from passing any border security packages. Given how bad Trump's fundamentals are, the fact that he's having trouble fundraising, is facing 80+ felony charges, etc. etc., it's going to take a lot more than baseless corruption allegations to be that black swan.
I don't see Ukraine as being a barrier to Biden's re-election and given where the parties are on Gaza, hard to imagine that really being a position of strength for Trump. If the US were to be embroiled in an ugly foreign war with significant loss of American troops, that could be such an event. Given how long those things can take and the fact that we would probably start any such conflict by kicking ass, as we have historically, that's extremely unlikely to occur. It usually takes years, not weeks or months, before Americans get tired of wars.
I'm not a betting man, but I suspect that the incumbency advantage would make Biden the favorite even if he's polling slightly behind Trump right now, particularly as Biden has only just begun campaigning while Trump has been in full-on campaign mode for ... (checks notes) ... 9 years. I checked the "actual" betting markets and they look like they are designed to generate action. Anyone who is putting money on Michelle Obama or Gavin Newsom to win in 2024 is a moron.
Unit2Sucks said:You gave one piece of constructive feedback indicating that if he made his proclamation on a different day and "let Easter be Easter" it would have been better. For what it's worth, he actually issued the proclamation 2 days earlier this year (on Friday). That just gave the anti-LGBTQ GOP extremists more time to generate faux outrage.BearGoggles said:If he did release it the day before, then I agree this seems over blown. But it was also politically stupid.Unit2Sucks said:Just to be clear, he did issue the TDOV announcement a day early (on March 30th), so you will need to change your narrative to say two days earlier or whatever. On Sunday his focus was entirely on Easter and he said religious-y stuff that was far more genuine than any similar comments Trump has ever made: "reminds us of the power of hope and the promise of Christ's Resurrection. As we gather with loved ones, we remember Jesus' sacrifice. We pray for one another and cherish the blessing of the dawn of new possibilities." You will note that he did not conflate or introduce TDOV in any of his comments about Easter because there is no relation between the two events.BearGoggles said:
It seems to me Biden could/should have issued the TDOV announcement a day early (maybe even have an event at the white house, etc.) and then let Easter be Easter.
This is such a silly fake outrage. No one really cares. It will not have any individual impact on the election. The guy running against Biden is an actual extremist who has said he wants to be a dictator on day one and whose team is preparing to implement a radical agenda and you are pretending like Biden issuing a meaningless proclamation is an issue.
I concede that it's possible that America makes a disastrous choice in November and re-elects Trump, and that if it happens the constant stream of fake outrage may contribute to overwhelming swing voters with this sort of propaganda, but you can't honestly pretend like anyone actually cares about this stuff.
And just to pile on, almost every public statement that a politician makes is pandering. Why is Biden making comments about Jesus' resurrection not just pandering to Christians? There is no official government business having anything to do with Jesus dying for people's sins or being resurrected. He's not allowed to advance Christianity or Catholicism as a state religion or otherwise violate the first amendment, so he has to make similar pronouncements on other religious holy days. In the past year, he has made public pronouncements about passover, diwali, ramadan and other non-Christian religions. Were those pandering as well? Or is it only pandering when he makes comments about non-religious moments that some people care about?
In a few days you guys will have a new fake outrage event which Christopher Rufo and other right wing extremists will use to activate the conservative movement and which no one will really care about but will be weaponized against Biden. Sure, people like you will say, Trump is facing 80+ felony charges and is a horrible person, but Biden didn't use his hand single while making a left hand turn on his bicycle. This is what you guys have to do in order to avoid acknowledging that Biden's presidency has taken us away from the chaos of Trump and toward peace and prosperity. You all know that Trump would bring us right back to chaos but you continue to do everything you can to ensure that he's elected even while claiming not to support him.
It is remarkable that you simply assume that because you 'don't care about this stuff" others do not. The political and social demands of the Trans movement are very much a political hot button whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Celebrating Easter, Passover, Ramadan, etc. is not controversial. Biden, who professes to be Catholic, is not pandering by celebrating his own faith.
And, as usual, you continue to make specious allegations about me. Its absurd to say I do "everything" to ensure he's elected when I've done nothing - didn't vote for him, haven't given him a dollar, etc. I've repeatedly said he's a horrible person and his behavior is not in any way presidential. Your definition of "everything" is certainly unusual.
In terms of chaos, it is pick your poison. Biden and his administration have created their own chaos, albeit in very different ways than Trump. Multiple wars, inflation, border/immigration mayhem, aggressive tactics from China and Russia, and many foreign policy missteps all fall on Biden. Biden also has his own set of moral failings, notably his families grifting.
Barring a last minute change, the election choices are awful. People with TDS have no ability to see that and/or acknowledge that people on both sides are voting for WHAT THEY PERCEIVE as the least bad candidate.
Then you said "I agree this seems over blown" "If he did" the thing you wanted. There is no "if" here. He made a proclamation two days before Easter. He didn't intermingle his quite religious Easter message with any other message. How hard is it for you to just admit that this is actually overblown, as you surmised it would be if things turned out to be as you said they might be?calbear93 said:
I think you are smart enough that the bolded section is unfair and unworthy of you. We are talking about EQ and sensitivity, which the left seems to be very aware of emphasizing except when it comes to one specific religion.
It's like someone who likes watermelon. Maybe have sufficient EQ and sensitivity not to promote that on the start of Black History month? Doesn't mean that's pandering. I think a president represents all, so I am glad he made public announcements about passover, diwali, etc. I am extremely in favor of religious respect and freedom, including those for non-Christians. I hope I have made myself clear (sometimes people want to assume what is convenient and ignore what has actually been written) that I am against establishing any official religion. I believe that even if I think it's stupidity to remove things like "So Help Me God" or "In God we Trust" since no one really takes those things as actual religious promotion just like someone using 2024 to signify the current year is not promoting Christianity even though 2024 means A.D., or year in our Lord Jesus Christ.
If I were hoping for Trump to win, I would be chuckling instead of shaking my head at the stupidity of this foot fault when Biden needs so much to go right. Biden is losing votes to Trump even among young minority males. When you look at the electoral map, there is very little cushion for Biden. He needs to play this well with the independents and young minority males most of whom are religious. https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/politics/minority-voters-biden-trump-analysis/index.html
I think there is part of you who thinks Trump is so horrible that you are not willing to deal with the tough truth that Trump probably has better odds than Biden right now. I know there is nothing you can do that will really change that. It's really up to Biden and his campaign (who struggles with getting his message across - for example, despite the relatively positive economy, people still think Trump is better for the economy). Biden's campaign needs to up their game. I say this hoping Trump does not win.
I personally don't have any issues with the fact that Biden (or any President) has to preside over a diverse nation with a lot of separate and even sometimes conflicting interests. I don't like when Presidents tell one group X and another group Y when X and Y are incompatible. Telling old people we will never touch social security while telling rich people we will gut entitlements is a great example.
Where you lose me is when you conflate TDOV with the celebration of Easter from some sort of values-based principal. If people who celebrate Easter have a problem with TDOV, that's a them problem and Biden shouldn't do the wrong thing in order to satisfy prejudiced people. A lot of people have a problem with Christianity but I'm not advocating that Biden alienate or abandon Christians to make them happy. For what it's worth, I don't think most Christians have a problem with the LGBTQ community so I don't think there is any conflict between recognizing both, just like I don't think there would be a problem if 2 religions have holidays that overlap (which is very often the case).
As for the "tough truth" that Trump has better odds, we just have to agree to disagree. I believe that despite being massively unpopular, Trump would have won in 2020 if not for the pandemic. The Biden presidency is likely to be in a very good place this fall - he freed us from our forever war in Afghanistan and the our economy is expected to be humming along. As I have said time and time again, peace and prosperity is what the American people want and it's likely to exist this fall when voters go to the polls. If that's the case, then absent some sort of black swan event, Biden will win. Just like Trump would have had the pandemic not happened (or had he not been a complete moron in his handling of it). Obviously there is a lot of time for a black swan event and the GOP is doing everything it can to precipitate one - including, for example, in preventing congress from passing any border security packages. Given how bad Trump's fundamentals are, the fact that he's having trouble fundraising, is facing 80+ felony charges, etc. etc., it's going to take a lot more than baseless corruption allegations to be that black swan.
I don't see Ukraine as being a barrier to Biden's re-election and given where the parties are on Gaza, hard to imagine that really being a position of strength for Trump. If the US were to be embroiled in an ugly foreign war with significant loss of American troops, that could be such an event. Given how long those things can take and the fact that we would probably start any such conflict by kicking ass, as we have historically, that's extremely unlikely to occur. It usually takes years, not weeks or months, before Americans get tired of wars.
I'm not a betting man, but I suspect that the incumbency advantage would make Biden the favorite even if he's polling slightly behind Trump right now, particularly as Biden has only just begun campaigning while Trump has been in full-on campaign mode for ... (checks notes) ... 9 years. I checked the "actual" betting markets and they look like they are designed to generate action. Anyone who is putting money on Michelle Obama or Gavin Newsom to win in 2024 is a moron.
Fair enough. At the end of the day, you and I want the same result for the election, even if we disagree on the strength of Biden.
Also, when referring to the odds, I was not referring to the betting market. I was thinking more the electoral college map, which states were leaning left or right, and current poll among those who will sway in the battleground states. Florida turning completely red and Michigan leaning red makes it extremely tough for Biden. Really only a handful of states up for grabs with Trump basically winning if he wins Georgia, Michigan, Nevada and North Carolina even if Biden wins all of the toss up and slightly left states like Virginia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona.
Yes, and I agree the EC map remains beneficial for Republicans. I don't think Michigan is leaning red, despite all of the noise being made recently with the protest vote in the primaries. Recent polls show Whitmer being more popular than Trump, the democratic senate candidate having a decent lead and a horse race between Biden and Trump.calbear93 said:Unit2Sucks said:You gave one piece of constructive feedback indicating that if he made his proclamation on a different day and "let Easter be Easter" it would have been better. For what it's worth, he actually issued the proclamation 2 days earlier this year (on Friday). That just gave the anti-LGBTQ GOP extremists more time to generate faux outrage.BearGoggles said:If he did release it the day before, then I agree this seems over blown. But it was also politically stupid.Unit2Sucks said:Just to be clear, he did issue the TDOV announcement a day early (on March 30th), so you will need to change your narrative to say two days earlier or whatever. On Sunday his focus was entirely on Easter and he said religious-y stuff that was far more genuine than any similar comments Trump has ever made: "reminds us of the power of hope and the promise of Christ's Resurrection. As we gather with loved ones, we remember Jesus' sacrifice. We pray for one another and cherish the blessing of the dawn of new possibilities." You will note that he did not conflate or introduce TDOV in any of his comments about Easter because there is no relation between the two events.BearGoggles said:
It seems to me Biden could/should have issued the TDOV announcement a day early (maybe even have an event at the white house, etc.) and then let Easter be Easter.
This is such a silly fake outrage. No one really cares. It will not have any individual impact on the election. The guy running against Biden is an actual extremist who has said he wants to be a dictator on day one and whose team is preparing to implement a radical agenda and you are pretending like Biden issuing a meaningless proclamation is an issue.
I concede that it's possible that America makes a disastrous choice in November and re-elects Trump, and that if it happens the constant stream of fake outrage may contribute to overwhelming swing voters with this sort of propaganda, but you can't honestly pretend like anyone actually cares about this stuff.
And just to pile on, almost every public statement that a politician makes is pandering. Why is Biden making comments about Jesus' resurrection not just pandering to Christians? There is no official government business having anything to do with Jesus dying for people's sins or being resurrected. He's not allowed to advance Christianity or Catholicism as a state religion or otherwise violate the first amendment, so he has to make similar pronouncements on other religious holy days. In the past year, he has made public pronouncements about passover, diwali, ramadan and other non-Christian religions. Were those pandering as well? Or is it only pandering when he makes comments about non-religious moments that some people care about?
In a few days you guys will have a new fake outrage event which Christopher Rufo and other right wing extremists will use to activate the conservative movement and which no one will really care about but will be weaponized against Biden. Sure, people like you will say, Trump is facing 80+ felony charges and is a horrible person, but Biden didn't use his hand single while making a left hand turn on his bicycle. This is what you guys have to do in order to avoid acknowledging that Biden's presidency has taken us away from the chaos of Trump and toward peace and prosperity. You all know that Trump would bring us right back to chaos but you continue to do everything you can to ensure that he's elected even while claiming not to support him.
It is remarkable that you simply assume that because you 'don't care about this stuff" others do not. The political and social demands of the Trans movement are very much a political hot button whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Celebrating Easter, Passover, Ramadan, etc. is not controversial. Biden, who professes to be Catholic, is not pandering by celebrating his own faith.
And, as usual, you continue to make specious allegations about me. Its absurd to say I do "everything" to ensure he's elected when I've done nothing - didn't vote for him, haven't given him a dollar, etc. I've repeatedly said he's a horrible person and his behavior is not in any way presidential. Your definition of "everything" is certainly unusual.
In terms of chaos, it is pick your poison. Biden and his administration have created their own chaos, albeit in very different ways than Trump. Multiple wars, inflation, border/immigration mayhem, aggressive tactics from China and Russia, and many foreign policy missteps all fall on Biden. Biden also has his own set of moral failings, notably his families grifting.
Barring a last minute change, the election choices are awful. People with TDS have no ability to see that and/or acknowledge that people on both sides are voting for WHAT THEY PERCEIVE as the least bad candidate.
Then you said "I agree this seems over blown" "If he did" the thing you wanted. There is no "if" here. He made a proclamation two days before Easter. He didn't intermingle his quite religious Easter message with any other message. How hard is it for you to just admit that this is actually overblown, as you surmised it would be if things turned out to be as you said they might be?calbear93 said:
I think you are smart enough that the bolded section is unfair and unworthy of you. We are talking about EQ and sensitivity, which the left seems to be very aware of emphasizing except when it comes to one specific religion.
It's like someone who likes watermelon. Maybe have sufficient EQ and sensitivity not to promote that on the start of Black History month? Doesn't mean that's pandering. I think a president represents all, so I am glad he made public announcements about passover, diwali, etc. I am extremely in favor of religious respect and freedom, including those for non-Christians. I hope I have made myself clear (sometimes people want to assume what is convenient and ignore what has actually been written) that I am against establishing any official religion. I believe that even if I think it's stupidity to remove things like "So Help Me God" or "In God we Trust" since no one really takes those things as actual religious promotion just like someone using 2024 to signify the current year is not promoting Christianity even though 2024 means A.D., or year in our Lord Jesus Christ.
If I were hoping for Trump to win, I would be chuckling instead of shaking my head at the stupidity of this foot fault when Biden needs so much to go right. Biden is losing votes to Trump even among young minority males. When you look at the electoral map, there is very little cushion for Biden. He needs to play this well with the independents and young minority males most of whom are religious. https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/27/politics/minority-voters-biden-trump-analysis/index.html
I think there is part of you who thinks Trump is so horrible that you are not willing to deal with the tough truth that Trump probably has better odds than Biden right now. I know there is nothing you can do that will really change that. It's really up to Biden and his campaign (who struggles with getting his message across - for example, despite the relatively positive economy, people still think Trump is better for the economy). Biden's campaign needs to up their game. I say this hoping Trump does not win.
I personally don't have any issues with the fact that Biden (or any President) has to preside over a diverse nation with a lot of separate and even sometimes conflicting interests. I don't like when Presidents tell one group X and another group Y when X and Y are incompatible. Telling old people we will never touch social security while telling rich people we will gut entitlements is a great example.
Where you lose me is when you conflate TDOV with the celebration of Easter from some sort of values-based principal. If people who celebrate Easter have a problem with TDOV, that's a them problem and Biden shouldn't do the wrong thing in order to satisfy prejudiced people. A lot of people have a problem with Christianity but I'm not advocating that Biden alienate or abandon Christians to make them happy. For what it's worth, I don't think most Christians have a problem with the LGBTQ community so I don't think there is any conflict between recognizing both, just like I don't think there would be a problem if 2 religions have holidays that overlap (which is very often the case).
As for the "tough truth" that Trump has better odds, we just have to agree to disagree. I believe that despite being massively unpopular, Trump would have won in 2020 if not for the pandemic. The Biden presidency is likely to be in a very good place this fall - he freed us from our forever war in Afghanistan and the our economy is expected to be humming along. As I have said time and time again, peace and prosperity is what the American people want and it's likely to exist this fall when voters go to the polls. If that's the case, then absent some sort of black swan event, Biden will win. Just like Trump would have had the pandemic not happened (or had he not been a complete moron in his handling of it). Obviously there is a lot of time for a black swan event and the GOP is doing everything it can to precipitate one - including, for example, in preventing congress from passing any border security packages. Given how bad Trump's fundamentals are, the fact that he's having trouble fundraising, is facing 80+ felony charges, etc. etc., it's going to take a lot more than baseless corruption allegations to be that black swan.
I don't see Ukraine as being a barrier to Biden's re-election and given where the parties are on Gaza, hard to imagine that really being a position of strength for Trump. If the US were to be embroiled in an ugly foreign war with significant loss of American troops, that could be such an event. Given how long those things can take and the fact that we would probably start any such conflict by kicking ass, as we have historically, that's extremely unlikely to occur. It usually takes years, not weeks or months, before Americans get tired of wars.
I'm not a betting man, but I suspect that the incumbency advantage would make Biden the favorite even if he's polling slightly behind Trump right now, particularly as Biden has only just begun campaigning while Trump has been in full-on campaign mode for ... (checks notes) ... 9 years. I checked the "actual" betting markets and they look like they are designed to generate action. Anyone who is putting money on Michelle Obama or Gavin Newsom to win in 2024 is a moron.
Fair enough. At the end of the day, you and I want the same result for the election, even if we disagree on the strength of Biden.
Also, when referring to the odds, I was not referring to the betting market. I was thinking more the electoral college map, which states were leaning left or right, and current poll among those who will sway in the battleground states. Florida turning completely red and Michigan leaning red makes it extremely tough for Biden. Really only a handful of states up for grabs with Trump basically winning if he wins Georgia, Michigan, Nevada and North Carolina even if Biden wins all of the toss up and slightly left states like Virginia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona.
We are still very early in this cycle. Biden is just starting to campaign and has a massive financial advantage, which he is likely to maintain or increase given that Trump's legal fees exceed his campaign spend.
If things look grim going into the dog days of summer, I will start to be concerned for our future. But on the bright side, I will personally benefit from the only legislative accomplishment Trump is likely to have in a second term, another tax cut for the wealthy.
Unit2Sucks said:
If things look grim going into the dog days of summer, I will start to be concerned for our future. But on the bright side, I will personally benefit from the only legislative accomplishment Trump is likely to have in a second term, another tax cut for the wealthy.
You mean an "extension" of the TCJA.
"Cults don't end well. They really don't."
I said "if" because, as is your habit, you provided no link substantiating your claim that the complained about conflation of TDOV and Easter was based on events occurring before Easter. I've learned not to take your claims at face value.Unit2Sucks said:You gave one piece of constructive feedback indicating that if he made his proclamation on a different day and "let Easter be Easter" it would have been better. For what it's worth, he actually issued the proclamation 2 days earlier this year (on Friday). That just gave the anti-LGBTQ GOP extremists more time to generate faux outrage.BearGoggles said:If he did release it the day before, then I agree this seems over blown. But it was also politically stupid.Unit2Sucks said:Just to be clear, he did issue the TDOV announcement a day early (on March 30th), so you will need to change your narrative to say two days earlier or whatever. On Sunday his focus was entirely on Easter and he said religious-y stuff that was far more genuine than any similar comments Trump has ever made: "reminds us of the power of hope and the promise of Christ's Resurrection. As we gather with loved ones, we remember Jesus' sacrifice. We pray for one another and cherish the blessing of the dawn of new possibilities." You will note that he did not conflate or introduce TDOV in any of his comments about Easter because there is no relation between the two events.BearGoggles said:
It seems to me Biden could/should have issued the TDOV announcement a day early (maybe even have an event at the white house, etc.) and then let Easter be Easter.
This is such a silly fake outrage. No one really cares. It will not have any individual impact on the election. The guy running against Biden is an actual extremist who has said he wants to be a dictator on day one and whose team is preparing to implement a radical agenda and you are pretending like Biden issuing a meaningless proclamation is an issue.
I concede that it's possible that America makes a disastrous choice in November and re-elects Trump, and that if it happens the constant stream of fake outrage may contribute to overwhelming swing voters with this sort of propaganda, but you can't honestly pretend like anyone actually cares about this stuff.
And just to pile on, almost every public statement that a politician makes is pandering. Why is Biden making comments about Jesus' resurrection not just pandering to Christians? There is no official government business having anything to do with Jesus dying for people's sins or being resurrected. He's not allowed to advance Christianity or Catholicism as a state religion or otherwise violate the first amendment, so he has to make similar pronouncements on other religious holy days. In the past year, he has made public pronouncements about passover, diwali, ramadan and other non-Christian religions. Were those pandering as well? Or is it only pandering when he makes comments about non-religious moments that some people care about?
In a few days you guys will have a new fake outrage event which Christopher Rufo and other right wing extremists will use to activate the conservative movement and which no one will really care about but will be weaponized against Biden. Sure, people like you will say, Trump is facing 80+ felony charges and is a horrible person, but Biden didn't use his hand single while making a left hand turn on his bicycle. This is what you guys have to do in order to avoid acknowledging that Biden's presidency has taken us away from the chaos of Trump and toward peace and prosperity. You all know that Trump would bring us right back to chaos but you continue to do everything you can to ensure that he's elected even while claiming not to support him.
It is remarkable that you simply assume that because you 'don't care about this stuff" others do not. The political and social demands of the Trans movement are very much a political hot button whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Celebrating Easter, Passover, Ramadan, etc. is not controversial. Biden, who professes to be Catholic, is not pandering by celebrating his own faith.
And, as usual, you continue to make specious allegations about me. Its absurd to say I do "everything" to ensure he's elected when I've done nothing - didn't vote for him, haven't given him a dollar, etc. I've repeatedly said he's a horrible person and his behavior is not in any way presidential. Your definition of "everything" is certainly unusual.
In terms of chaos, it is pick your poison. Biden and his administration have created their own chaos, albeit in very different ways than Trump. Multiple wars, inflation, border/immigration mayhem, aggressive tactics from China and Russia, and many foreign policy missteps all fall on Biden. Biden also has his own set of moral failings, notably his families grifting.
Barring a last minute change, the election choices are awful. People with TDS have no ability to see that and/or acknowledge that people on both sides are voting for WHAT THEY PERCEIVE as the least bad candidate.
Then you said "I agree this seems over blown" "If he did" the thing you wanted. There is no "if" here. He made a proclamation two days before Easter. He didn't intermingle his quite religious Easter message with any other message. How hard is it for you to just admit that this is actually overblown, as you surmised it would be if things turned out to be as you said they might be?
And sure enough, my suspicions were correct. You're just incapable of debating in good faith by admitting any fact not aligned with your politics. The truth is Biden tweeted on EASTER about TDOV (or someone did from his account). So, in fact, he did not let Easter be Easter. And contrary to your claim, on Easter Sunday, his focus was not "entirely on Easter" (your words). That is just objectively false.
Politically idiotic move by Biden.
Today, on Transgender Day of Visibility, I have a simple message to all trans Americans:
— President Biden (@POTUS) March 31, 2024
I see you.
You are made in the image of God, and you're worthy of respect and dignity. pic.twitter.com/ihvsJrXEyd
BearGoggles said:I said "if" because, as is your habit, you provided no link substantiating your claim that the complained about conflation of TDOV and Easter was based on events occurring before Easter. I've learned not to take your claims at face value.Unit2Sucks said:You gave one piece of constructive feedback indicating that if he made his proclamation on a different day and "let Easter be Easter" it would have been better. For what it's worth, he actually issued the proclamation 2 days earlier this year (on Friday). That just gave the anti-LGBTQ GOP extremists more time to generate faux outrage.BearGoggles said:If he did release it the day before, then I agree this seems over blown. But it was also politically stupid.Unit2Sucks said:Just to be clear, he did issue the TDOV announcement a day early (on March 30th), so you will need to change your narrative to say two days earlier or whatever. On Sunday his focus was entirely on Easter and he said religious-y stuff that was far more genuine than any similar comments Trump has ever made: "reminds us of the power of hope and the promise of Christ's Resurrection. As we gather with loved ones, we remember Jesus' sacrifice. We pray for one another and cherish the blessing of the dawn of new possibilities." You will note that he did not conflate or introduce TDOV in any of his comments about Easter because there is no relation between the two events.BearGoggles said:
It seems to me Biden could/should have issued the TDOV announcement a day early (maybe even have an event at the white house, etc.) and then let Easter be Easter.
This is such a silly fake outrage. No one really cares. It will not have any individual impact on the election. The guy running against Biden is an actual extremist who has said he wants to be a dictator on day one and whose team is preparing to implement a radical agenda and you are pretending like Biden issuing a meaningless proclamation is an issue.
I concede that it's possible that America makes a disastrous choice in November and re-elects Trump, and that if it happens the constant stream of fake outrage may contribute to overwhelming swing voters with this sort of propaganda, but you can't honestly pretend like anyone actually cares about this stuff.
And just to pile on, almost every public statement that a politician makes is pandering. Why is Biden making comments about Jesus' resurrection not just pandering to Christians? There is no official government business having anything to do with Jesus dying for people's sins or being resurrected. He's not allowed to advance Christianity or Catholicism as a state religion or otherwise violate the first amendment, so he has to make similar pronouncements on other religious holy days. In the past year, he has made public pronouncements about passover, diwali, ramadan and other non-Christian religions. Were those pandering as well? Or is it only pandering when he makes comments about non-religious moments that some people care about?
In a few days you guys will have a new fake outrage event which Christopher Rufo and other right wing extremists will use to activate the conservative movement and which no one will really care about but will be weaponized against Biden. Sure, people like you will say, Trump is facing 80+ felony charges and is a horrible person, but Biden didn't use his hand single while making a left hand turn on his bicycle. This is what you guys have to do in order to avoid acknowledging that Biden's presidency has taken us away from the chaos of Trump and toward peace and prosperity. You all know that Trump would bring us right back to chaos but you continue to do everything you can to ensure that he's elected even while claiming not to support him.
It is remarkable that you simply assume that because you 'don't care about this stuff" others do not. The political and social demands of the Trans movement are very much a political hot button whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Celebrating Easter, Passover, Ramadan, etc. is not controversial. Biden, who professes to be Catholic, is not pandering by celebrating his own faith.
And, as usual, you continue to make specious allegations about me. Its absurd to say I do "everything" to ensure he's elected when I've done nothing - didn't vote for him, haven't given him a dollar, etc. I've repeatedly said he's a horrible person and his behavior is not in any way presidential. Your definition of "everything" is certainly unusual.
In terms of chaos, it is pick your poison. Biden and his administration have created their own chaos, albeit in very different ways than Trump. Multiple wars, inflation, border/immigration mayhem, aggressive tactics from China and Russia, and many foreign policy missteps all fall on Biden. Biden also has his own set of moral failings, notably his families grifting.
Barring a last minute change, the election choices are awful. People with TDS have no ability to see that and/or acknowledge that people on both sides are voting for WHAT THEY PERCEIVE as the least bad candidate.
Then you said "I agree this seems over blown" "If he did" the thing you wanted. There is no "if" here. He made a proclamation two days before Easter. He didn't intermingle his quite religious Easter message with any other message. How hard is it for you to just admit that this is actually overblown, as you surmised it would be if things turned out to be as you said they might be?
And sure enough, my suspicions were correct. You're just incapable of debating in good faith by admitting any fact not aligned with your politics. The truth is Biden tweeted on EASTER about TDOV (or someone did from his account). So, in fact, he did not let Easter be Easter. And contrary to your claim, on Easter Sunday, his focus was not "entirely on Easter" (your words). That is just objectively false.
Politically idiotic move by Biden.Today, on Transgender Day of Visibility, I have a simple message to all trans Americans:
— President Biden (@POTUS) March 31, 2024
I see you.
You are made in the image of God, and you're worthy of respect and dignity. pic.twitter.com/ihvsJrXEyd
I'm sorry that happened to you
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