He NEEDS to go. All he does is talk and is so SLOW to dissect issues. Same stuff every game
Ron Rivera
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86 Replies |
Last: 8 hrs ago by pleasant valley bear
I don't know if it is RR's fault or the fault of our donors/boosters. Possibly (probably?) both.
Either way, we should have put guardrails on Tosh when we hired him.
I can imagine a scenario where Ron is just bros with Tosh and didn't want to hold him accountable for the way he left. Maybe he thought he would be back in the NFL by now and wouldn't have to deal with any of this stuff.
But I can also imagine an alternative scenario where the donors were just happy Tosh smiled in their direction, talked about the power of unit, and just rah-rah'd themselves to sleep while Tosh was given free range and not required to apologize for the past, do some penance, and to submit to a more experienced hand in order to build his staff.
It could be one, the other, or both.
Either way, we should have put guardrails on Tosh when we hired him.
I can imagine a scenario where Ron is just bros with Tosh and didn't want to hold him accountable for the way he left. Maybe he thought he would be back in the NFL by now and wouldn't have to deal with any of this stuff.
But I can also imagine an alternative scenario where the donors were just happy Tosh smiled in their direction, talked about the power of unit, and just rah-rah'd themselves to sleep while Tosh was given free range and not required to apologize for the past, do some penance, and to submit to a more experienced hand in order to build his staff.
It could be one, the other, or both.
Ron and Tosh are Cal Bears.
We should trust them.
By the way, don't spoil the game. I'm planning to watch later tonight.
We should trust them.
By the way, don't spoil the game. I'm planning to watch later tonight.
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
$82 million.
Poof!
Poof!
GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/136257/replies/2736509
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/136085/replies/2732003
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/131395/replies/2603103
At least change the topic, dude. Or just bump your own spastic thoughts.
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/136085/replies/2732003
https://bearinsider.com/forums/2/topics/131395/replies/2603103
At least change the topic, dude. Or just bump your own spastic thoughts.
CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
DonnieMcCleskey said:Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
What are the characteristics we are looking for in a GM? It doesn't necessarily overlap with being a coach. It involves fund raising and hiring and firing coaches, or recommending such actions, and greasing wheels within the university to make things happen for the success of the program, including NIL stuff. Administrative talent will be important, but whether he was a mediocre coach in the NFL doesn't mean much to me.
On the fund raising, he is a beloved former player, who went on to great success with the Chicago Bears. For the Golden Bears he tackled Texas A&M running back Jimmie Hawkins in the end zone for a game-winning safety with 57 seconds remaining, sealing a dramatic 1917 victory for Cal in their September 3, 1983, season opener in College Station.
I don't mean this as an endorsement of Rivera for what he has done or not done as GM. But as more of an explanation for why people would think he is appropriate for the position, notwithstanding his coaching history. He picked Tosh and now has to wear that. We'll see how this goes.
Cal Not Weak said:
Based on results thus far, RR's administrative/coaching history has done us precisely zero favors. Geoff MacArthur or Tony Gonzalez could have done at least as strong of a job as RR.
Pawlawski, Aaron Rodgers (if he apologizes about his false claims about our academics), Tedford, Cal Strong, Tony Franklin, or Jack Clark might be good replacements for RR's role.
But Leigh Steinberg would be my #1 pick for GM. My backup plan would be Steve Bartkowski.
Leigh Steinberg is 78 years old.
“My tastes are simple; I am easily satisfied with the best.” - Winston Churchill
82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
We are in BIG trouble!
bearvalley1 said:
Bonehead Bowl
Thanks for that link! Ron should have that appended to his LinkedIn!
DonnieMcCleskey said:Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
I just turned 55 "recently"!
The thinking on RR's NFL coaching is that he coached for two moribund franchises that were hard to win at. And didn't he get to the Super Bowl once and wasn't he NFL CoY twice (or something like that)?
And the talk about him when he was an NFL Head Coach was mostly positive. Far more likely to see his name on a list of Top Ten NFL coaches than Bottom Ten.
That is my recollection and my assessment of why he has been highly regarded. Is that accurate? I'm not nearly "inside" enough to know how he is doing as our GM, except to say that everything seemed to be moving forward until we started actually playing games this season. Seems like about 80% of this has been caused by the OC selection. Should Ron have stepped in and put the kibosh on it? Well, I guess so, in retrospect, but the HC usually gets to pick his Assistants.
Big C said:DonnieMcCleskey said:Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
I just turned 55 "recently"!
The thinking on RR's NFL coaching is that he coached for two moribund franchises that were hard to win at. And didn't he get to the Super Bowl once and wasn't he NFL CoY twice (or something like that)?
And the talk about him when he was an NFL Head Coach was mostly positive. Far more likely to see his name on a list of Top Ten NFL coaches than Bottom Ten.
That is my recollection and my assessment of why he has been highly regarded. Is that accurate? I'm not nearly "inside" enough to know how he is doing as our GM, except to say that everything seemed to be moving forward until we started actually playing games this season. Seems like about 80% of this has been caused by the OC selection. Should Ron have stepped in and put the kibosh on it? Well, I guess so, in retrospect, but the HC usually gets to pick his Assistants.
There are thousands of football coaches in the US. Good HS coaches get hired to FCS. Good FCS coaches get hired to G6. Good G6 coaches get hired to P4. Good P4 coaches at lower programs get hired to elite P4 ptograms. Coaches at elite programs jump to the NFL.
Coaching in the NFL is the highest level of the football coaching profession. Top NFL coaches make $15-20 million per year. Rivera was good enough to be hired repeatedly, He got a team to the Super Bowl. People that denigrate that by saying "he had Cam Newton" ignore that it takes a lot more than a good QB to get to the Super Bowl. Aaron Rodgers only played in one. Lamar Jackson is a two-time MVP but has never player in a Super Bowl.
People saying Rivera's record as an NFL coach somehow means he wouldn't be a good head coach at Cal is like saying an "average" NBA starter wouldnt be great and would only be an average basketball player at Cal. As a longtime NFL head coach Rivera is one of the elite coaches in the business. Rivera as our HC would have brought a lot of credibility to our program.
I do think Rivera was miscast as our GM. He is a football coach not a GM. Zero current NFL GMs are former coaches. Zero. It is a different job requiring a different skillset. His only experience in college was as a player 40+ years ago. Especially at Cal in 2025 where we need to be cutting edge, with out of the box thinking. So my vote for GM might be one of the many Cal grads in NFL management or someone like Sebastabear who is smart, creative and has demonstrated that over and over (and might take a lower salary allowing more $$$ for NIL).
I am still a Ron Rivera fan. Hopefully Ron helps fix this this year and then gets an NFL HC job.
calumnus said:Big C said:DonnieMcCleskey said:Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
I just turned 55 "recently"!
The thinking on RR's NFL coaching is that he coached for two moribund franchises that were hard to win at. And didn't he get to the Super Bowl once and wasn't he NFL CoY twice (or something like that)?
And the talk about him when he was an NFL Head Coach was mostly positive. Far more likely to see his name on a list of Top Ten NFL coaches than Bottom Ten.
That is my recollection and my assessment of why he has been highly regarded. Is that accurate? I'm not nearly "inside" enough to know how he is doing as our GM, except to say that everything seemed to be moving forward until we started actually playing games this season. Seems like about 80% of this has been caused by the OC selection. Should Ron have stepped in and put the kibosh on it? Well, I guess so, in retrospect, but the HC usually gets to pick his Assistants.
Coaching in the NFL is the highest level of the football coaching profession.
People saying Rivera's record as an NFL coach somehow means he wouldn't be a good head coach at Cal is like saying an "average" NBA starter wouldnt be great and would only be an average basketball player at Cal.
That's absolutely not true. Coaching is a boys club and nepotism is rampant. Hue Jackson, Adam Gase, Nathaniel Hackett are all examples of HC coaches that had no business being where they were at. Gase's career was carried by Peyton, much like Rivera by Cam
Every single one of us who is focused on the success of Cal Football and athletics has a role to play. I am not about to sit on the sideline and Monday morning quarterback the decisions of people who have put more of their blood, sweat, tears and resources on the line than I have. I supported the hire of Tosh. I haven't given up on him.
Ron, Chancelor Lyons and the influential donors have made meaningful infrastructure changes that are in line with long term success. They have as much time and patience from me as a casual fan as they will need to right the ship.
Ron, Chancelor Lyons and the influential donors have made meaningful infrastructure changes that are in line with long term success. They have as much time and patience from me as a casual fan as they will need to right the ship.
DoubtfulBear said:calumnus said:Big C said:DonnieMcCleskey said:Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
I just turned 55 "recently"!
The thinking on RR's NFL coaching is that he coached for two moribund franchises that were hard to win at. And didn't he get to the Super Bowl once and wasn't he NFL CoY twice (or something like that)?
And the talk about him when he was an NFL Head Coach was mostly positive. Far more likely to see his name on a list of Top Ten NFL coaches than Bottom Ten.
That is my recollection and my assessment of why he has been highly regarded. Is that accurate? I'm not nearly "inside" enough to know how he is doing as our GM, except to say that everything seemed to be moving forward until we started actually playing games this season. Seems like about 80% of this has been caused by the OC selection. Should Ron have stepped in and put the kibosh on it? Well, I guess so, in retrospect, but the HC usually gets to pick his Assistants.
Coaching in the NFL is the highest level of the football coaching profession.
People saying Rivera's record as an NFL coach somehow means he wouldn't be a good head coach at Cal is like saying an "average" NBA starter wouldnt be great and would only be an average basketball player at Cal.
That's absolutely not true. Coaching is a boys club and nepotism is rampant. Hue Jackson, Adam Gase, Nathaniel Hackett are all examples of HC coaches that had no business being where they were at. Gase's career was carried by Peyton, much like Rivera by Cam
In the NFL, the offensive and defensive quality control coaches are entry level jobs in coaching. They are coveted. There are only a few of them.
My opinion of Ron Rivera changed when he became Washington head coach, he hired as his offensive quality control coach his defensive coordinator's son and as his defensive quality control coach his nephew Bug.
As Avinash points out, Rivera hired an inexperienced nepo baby to call plays at Washington. (Rivera worked for Norv Turner, Scott's dad.)
calumnus said:Big C said:DonnieMcCleskey said:Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
I just turned 55 "recently"!
The thinking on RR's NFL coaching is that he coached for two moribund franchises that were hard to win at. And didn't he get to the Super Bowl once and wasn't he NFL CoY twice (or something like that)?
And the talk about him when he was an NFL Head Coach was mostly positive. Far more likely to see his name on a list of Top Ten NFL coaches than Bottom Ten.
That is my recollection and my assessment of why he has been highly regarded. Is that accurate? I'm not nearly "inside" enough to know how he is doing as our GM, except to say that everything seemed to be moving forward until we started actually playing games this season. Seems like about 80% of this has been caused by the OC selection. Should Ron have stepped in and put the kibosh on it? Well, I guess so, in retrospect, but the HC usually gets to pick his Assistants.
There are thousands of football coaches in the US. Good HS coaches get hired to FCS. Good FCS coaches get hired to G6. Good G6 coaches get hired to P4. Good P4 coaches at lower programs get hired to elite P4 ptograms. Coaches at elite programs jump to the NFL.
Coaching in the NFL is the highest level of the football coaching profession. Top NFL coaches make $15-20 million per year. Rivera was good enough to be hired repeatedly, He got a team to the Super Bowl. People that denigrate that by saying "he had Cam Newton" ignore that it takes a lot more than a good QB to get to the Super Bowl. Aaron Rodgers only played in one. Lamar Jackson is a two-time MVP but has never player in a Super Bowl.
People saying Rivera's record as an NFL coach somehow means he wouldn't be a good head coach at Cal is like saying an "average" NBA starter wouldnt be great and would only be an average basketball player at Cal. As a longtime NFL head coach Rivera is one of the elite coaches in the business. Rivera as our HC would have brought a lot of credibility to our program.
I do think Rivera was miscast as our GM. He is a football coach not a GM. Zero current NFL GMs are former coaches. Zero. It is a different job requiring a different skillset. His only experience in college was as a player 40+ years ago. Especially at Cal in 2025 where we need to be cutting edge, with out of the box thinking. So my vote for GM might be one of the many Cal grads in NFL management or someone like Sebastabear who is smart, creative and has demonstrated that over and over (and might take a lower salary allowing more $$$ for NIL).
I am still a Ron Rivera fan. Hopefully Ron helps fix this this year and then gets an NFL HC job.
I always think about this guy. He was a lowly guy on bad Stanford teams. What made him so special that he would get a coveted entry level position on an NFL team? Oh, yeah, his dad was offensive coordinator.
Thanks to Aaron Rodgers, he was able to reach the zenith: head coach for a season, before going back to being offensive coordinator.
(The current head coach of the Bengals wouldn't be where he is if he didn't marry the daughter of an NFL head coach.)
okaydo said:calumnus said:Big C said:DonnieMcCleskey said:Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
I just turned 55 "recently"!
The thinking on RR's NFL coaching is that he coached for two moribund franchises that were hard to win at. And didn't he get to the Super Bowl once and wasn't he NFL CoY twice (or something like that)?
And the talk about him when he was an NFL Head Coach was mostly positive. Far more likely to see his name on a list of Top Ten NFL coaches than Bottom Ten.
That is my recollection and my assessment of why he has been highly regarded. Is that accurate? I'm not nearly "inside" enough to know how he is doing as our GM, except to say that everything seemed to be moving forward until we started actually playing games this season. Seems like about 80% of this has been caused by the OC selection. Should Ron have stepped in and put the kibosh on it? Well, I guess so, in retrospect, but the HC usually gets to pick his Assistants.
There are thousands of football coaches in the US. Good HS coaches get hired to FCS. Good FCS coaches get hired to G6. Good G6 coaches get hired to P4. Good P4 coaches at lower programs get hired to elite P4 ptograms. Coaches at elite programs jump to the NFL.
Coaching in the NFL is the highest level of the football coaching profession. Top NFL coaches make $15-20 million per year. Rivera was good enough to be hired repeatedly, He got a team to the Super Bowl. People that denigrate that by saying "he had Cam Newton" ignore that it takes a lot more than a good QB to get to the Super Bowl. Aaron Rodgers only played in one. Lamar Jackson is a two-time MVP but has never player in a Super Bowl.
People saying Rivera's record as an NFL coach somehow means he wouldn't be a good head coach at Cal is like saying an "average" NBA starter wouldnt be great and would only be an average basketball player at Cal. As a longtime NFL head coach Rivera is one of the elite coaches in the business. Rivera as our HC would have brought a lot of credibility to our program.
I do think Rivera was miscast as our GM. He is a football coach not a GM. Zero current NFL GMs are former coaches. Zero. It is a different job requiring a different skillset. His only experience in college was as a player 40+ years ago. Especially at Cal in 2025 where we need to be cutting edge, with out of the box thinking. So my vote for GM might be one of the many Cal grads in NFL management or someone like Sebastabear who is smart, creative and has demonstrated that over and over (and might take a lower salary allowing more $$$ for NIL).
I am still a Ron Rivera fan. Hopefully Ron helps fix this this year and then gets an NFL HC job.
(The current head coach of the Bengals wouldn't be where he is if he didn't marry the daughter of an NFL head coach.)
Uh yeah, and:
Quote:
In 2021, Taylor led the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en route to an appearance in Super Bowl LVI. Taylor followed this up with 12 wins and a trip to the AFC Championship Game in 2022. During his time with the Bengals, Taylor has won five postseason games, matching the franchise total prior to his hiring as head coach.
DoubtfulBear said:calumnus said:Big C said:DonnieMcCleskey said:Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
I just turned 55 "recently"!
The thinking on RR's NFL coaching is that he coached for two moribund franchises that were hard to win at. And didn't he get to the Super Bowl once and wasn't he NFL CoY twice (or something like that)?
And the talk about him when he was an NFL Head Coach was mostly positive. Far more likely to see his name on a list of Top Ten NFL coaches than Bottom Ten.
That is my recollection and my assessment of why he has been highly regarded. Is that accurate? I'm not nearly "inside" enough to know how he is doing as our GM, except to say that everything seemed to be moving forward until we started actually playing games this season. Seems like about 80% of this has been caused by the OC selection. Should Ron have stepped in and put the kibosh on it? Well, I guess so, in retrospect, but the HC usually gets to pick his Assistants.
Coaching in the NFL is the highest level of the football coaching profession.
People saying Rivera's record as an NFL coach somehow means he wouldn't be a good head coach at Cal is like saying an "average" NBA starter wouldnt be great and would only be an average basketball player at Cal.
That's absolutely not true. Coaching is a boys club and nepotism is rampant. Hue Jackson, Adam Gase, Nathaniel Hackett are all examples of HC coaches that had no business being where they were at. Gase's career was carried by Peyton, much like Rivera by Cam
You ciite guys who were given a shot at being a head coach and were fired after a year and are back to being coordinators to discredit a guy who was an NFL head coach for 13 years? Including getting to the Super Bowl?
Again, that is like comparing a QB who bombed out after a single year in the NFL to a QB who had a 13 year career as a starter and took his team to the Super Bowl. It is wildly not the same.
calumnus said:DoubtfulBear said:calumnus said:Big C said:DonnieMcCleskey said:Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
I just turned 55 "recently"!
The thinking on RR's NFL coaching is that he coached for two moribund franchises that were hard to win at. And didn't he get to the Super Bowl once and wasn't he NFL CoY twice (or something like that)?
And the talk about him when he was an NFL Head Coach was mostly positive. Far more likely to see his name on a list of Top Ten NFL coaches than Bottom Ten.
That is my recollection and my assessment of why he has been highly regarded. Is that accurate? I'm not nearly "inside" enough to know how he is doing as our GM, except to say that everything seemed to be moving forward until we started actually playing games this season. Seems like about 80% of this has been caused by the OC selection. Should Ron have stepped in and put the kibosh on it? Well, I guess so, in retrospect, but the HC usually gets to pick his Assistants.
Coaching in the NFL is the highest level of the football coaching profession.
People saying Rivera's record as an NFL coach somehow means he wouldn't be a good head coach at Cal is like saying an "average" NBA starter wouldnt be great and would only be an average basketball player at Cal.
That's absolutely not true. Coaching is a boys club and nepotism is rampant. Hue Jackson, Adam Gase, Nathaniel Hackett are all examples of HC coaches that had no business being where they were at. Gase's career was carried by Peyton, much like Rivera by Cam
You ciite guys who were given a shot at being a head coach and were fired after a year and are back to being coordinators to discredit a guy who was an NFL head coach for 13 years? Including getting to the Super Bowl?
Again, that is like comparing a QB who bombed out after a single year in the NFL to a QB who had a 13 year career as a starter and took his team to the Super Bowl. It is wildly not the same.
My point is that football coaching isn't some utopian meritocracy where only the most talented are able to secure a coveted spot as an NFL HC. The nepotism runs deep and you shouldn't expect someone to be great just because they got there.
Strykur said:okaydo said:calumnus said:Big C said:DonnieMcCleskey said:Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
I just turned 55 "recently"!
The thinking on RR's NFL coaching is that he coached for two moribund franchises that were hard to win at. And didn't he get to the Super Bowl once and wasn't he NFL CoY twice (or something like that)?
And the talk about him when he was an NFL Head Coach was mostly positive. Far more likely to see his name on a list of Top Ten NFL coaches than Bottom Ten.
That is my recollection and my assessment of why he has been highly regarded. Is that accurate? I'm not nearly "inside" enough to know how he is doing as our GM, except to say that everything seemed to be moving forward until we started actually playing games this season. Seems like about 80% of this has been caused by the OC selection. Should Ron have stepped in and put the kibosh on it? Well, I guess so, in retrospect, but the HC usually gets to pick his Assistants.
There are thousands of football coaches in the US. Good HS coaches get hired to FCS. Good FCS coaches get hired to G6. Good G6 coaches get hired to P4. Good P4 coaches at lower programs get hired to elite P4 ptograms. Coaches at elite programs jump to the NFL.
Coaching in the NFL is the highest level of the football coaching profession. Top NFL coaches make $15-20 million per year. Rivera was good enough to be hired repeatedly, He got a team to the Super Bowl. People that denigrate that by saying "he had Cam Newton" ignore that it takes a lot more than a good QB to get to the Super Bowl. Aaron Rodgers only played in one. Lamar Jackson is a two-time MVP but has never player in a Super Bowl.
People saying Rivera's record as an NFL coach somehow means he wouldn't be a good head coach at Cal is like saying an "average" NBA starter wouldnt be great and would only be an average basketball player at Cal. As a longtime NFL head coach Rivera is one of the elite coaches in the business. Rivera as our HC would have brought a lot of credibility to our program.
I do think Rivera was miscast as our GM. He is a football coach not a GM. Zero current NFL GMs are former coaches. Zero. It is a different job requiring a different skillset. His only experience in college was as a player 40+ years ago. Especially at Cal in 2025 where we need to be cutting edge, with out of the box thinking. So my vote for GM might be one of the many Cal grads in NFL management or someone like Sebastabear who is smart, creative and has demonstrated that over and over (and might take a lower salary allowing more $$$ for NIL).
I am still a Ron Rivera fan. Hopefully Ron helps fix this this year and then gets an NFL HC job.
(The current head coach of the Bengals wouldn't be where he is if he didn't marry the daughter of an NFL head coach.)
Uh yeah, and:Quote:
In 2021, Taylor led the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en route to an appearance in Super Bowl LVI. Taylor followed this up with 12 wins and a trip to the AFC Championship Game in 2022. During his time with the Bengals, Taylor has won five postseason games, matching the franchise total prior to his hiring as head coach.
Yes, and he still wouldn't be where he is if it weren't for his father-in-law (and also Jared Goff).
But not everybody could marry the daughter of an NFL coach.
evanluck said:
Every single one of us who is focused on the success of Cal Football and athletics has a role to play. I am not about to sit on the sideline and Monday morning quarterback the decisions of people who have put more of their blood, sweat, tears and resources on the line than I have. I supported the hire of Tosh. I haven't given up on him.
Ron, Chancelor Lyons and the influential donors have made meaningful infrastructure changes that are in line with long term success. They have as much time and patience from me as a casual fan as they will need to right the ship.
The upcoming "realignment" would like to have a word with you.
Trust the process.
DiabloWags said:evanluck said:
Every single one of us who is focused on the success of Cal Football and athletics has a role to play. I am not about to sit on the sideline and Monday morning quarterback the decisions of people who have put more of their blood, sweat, tears and resources on the line than I have. I supported the hire of Tosh. I haven't given up on him.
Ron, Chancelor Lyons and the influential donors have made meaningful infrastructure changes that are in line with long term success. They have as much time and patience from me as a casual fan as they will need to right the ship.
The upcoming "realignment" would like to have a word with you.
^^ this. We were repeatedly told there was urgency because of the upcoming realignment. Perhaps the effort to date could be fairly characterized as a Noble Failure, in which a high-level, passionate effort fell short. I don't think anyone should ever downplay the importance of the "casual fan." I've attended most Cal football home games since my freshman year in 1976, so this is my 50th season as a casual fan. Coaches' and players' high salaries are possible in no small part thanks to "casual fans" who watch games in person and on TV. It's hard to understand the approach Cal leadership took to address this urgency, especially when UCLA, Kentucky, and Oklahoma State turned their programs around instantly by hiring proven head coaches rather than gambling on someone with questionable qualifications based on dubious logic.
okaydo said:DoubtfulBear said:calumnus said:Big C said:DonnieMcCleskey said:Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
I just turned 55 "recently"!
The thinking on RR's NFL coaching is that he coached for two moribund franchises that were hard to win at. And didn't he get to the Super Bowl once and wasn't he NFL CoY twice (or something like that)?
And the talk about him when he was an NFL Head Coach was mostly positive. Far more likely to see his name on a list of Top Ten NFL coaches than Bottom Ten.
That is my recollection and my assessment of why he has been highly regarded. Is that accurate? I'm not nearly "inside" enough to know how he is doing as our GM, except to say that everything seemed to be moving forward until we started actually playing games this season. Seems like about 80% of this has been caused by the OC selection. Should Ron have stepped in and put the kibosh on it? Well, I guess so, in retrospect, but the HC usually gets to pick his Assistants.
Coaching in the NFL is the highest level of the football coaching profession.
People saying Rivera's record as an NFL coach somehow means he wouldn't be a good head coach at Cal is like saying an "average" NBA starter wouldnt be great and would only be an average basketball player at Cal.
That's absolutely not true. Coaching is a boys club and nepotism is rampant. Hue Jackson, Adam Gase, Nathaniel Hackett are all examples of HC coaches that had no business being where they were at. Gase's career was carried by Peyton, much like Rivera by Cam
In the NFL, the offensive and defensive quality control coaches are entry level jobs in coaching. They are coveted. There are only a few of them.
My opinion of Ron Rivera changed when he became Washington head coach, he hired as his offensive quality control coach his defensive coordinator's son and as his defensive quality control coach his nephew Bug.
As Avinash points out, Rivera hired an inexperienced nepo baby to call plays at Washington. (Rivera worked for Norv Turner, Scott's dad.)
This is an absolute BS comparison and wrong (other than the part about begin Norv's kid). For starters, Turner had called plays at the high school, college and NFL level and had been an OC at the NFL level before Ron hired him at Washington.
Summerville didn't play football, had 2 seasons as a GA, 2 season as an assistant coach, 1 year as an analyst, and 2 seasons as assistant to an assistant coach. He also was a recruiting coordinator while as an assistant coach, which probably caught Tosh's eye.
Turner actually played college football as a QB, then a GA, then an OC for 2 years at well known high school, then an offensive assistant for a couple season under Ron, then an NFL assistant coach for a couple years, then an NFL offensive QC for 2 years, then an NFL assistant coach for 4 years, then an offensive assistant to Harbaugh at Michigan where he called plays, he then returned to work for Rivera at Carolina, where he was the QB coach and when Rivera was fired, he became the OC, and he also called plays. Rivera then brought him Washington to be the OC there. He then got fired with Ron and later was the passing game coordinator at the Raiders and Jets though he got fired by the Jets with other coaches before this season.
Wha the f-ing world makes the lightweight resume of Summerville and Turner's resume even look remotely similar? One thing is for sure, no one is going to give Summerville a coordinator type position on the P4 college level, no less the NFL.
Avanish should do some due diligence before he repeats BS that some moron on the internet spouts.
calumnus said:DoubtfulBear said:calumnus said:Big C said:DonnieMcCleskey said:Rushinbear said:82gradDLSdad said:CalBarn said:GoCal80 said:
I hope that the big donors, Rivera and the Chancellor will take ownership of their mistake in hiring Tosh and change course asap. It is very hard to understand how such an accomplished group could have been so badly fooled into thinking Tosh has what it takes to be a good head coach. However, a whole bunch of successful people believed in Elizabeth Holmes and thought she was going to revolutionize biomedicine with her blood testing platform, so even successful people can be fooled by a velvet-lipped con artist.
For all the hype and rah-rah cheerleading from Tosh
this preseason, this season has been a huge disappointment.
He shows little ability to run a successful college program.
Boring offense, lackluster defense. Not the X's and O's guy we need here at Cal.
I certainly didn't expect x's and o's from Tosh. But I did expect him to recruit a couple of speedy players and coach an improved level of fitness, power and enthusiasm into the team. I haven't seen any of that. You can't just recruit a winner. You have to bring something else. Geez, he certainly ain't recruit good assistants. I honestly don't see at this point what he brings. And Rivera.... We are in trouble.
What did RR bring? Experience in coaching and managing middlin' pro teams. where's the excellence? did it show up anywhere off the field?
I'm hoping that RR put up big resistance to the Somer hire, at least. If lost that fight, it should have been with the caveat that Tosh give him his resignation letter, unsigned, and RR would give his to Lyons to offset.
On this point, could someone over 55 years old maybe explain to the rest of us the fascination with Rivera?
I understand that he loves Cal and did a great job fundraising over the past year. He seems to be very well respected within the old-school football circles
For myself and maybe others who are slightly younger, my memories of Rivera are of a mediocre to poor NFL coach. The game looked like it had passed him by when he was let go in Carolina and eventually Washington, but to hear some Old Blues talk about Rivera you would think he was Andy Reid or Sean McVay.
In 13 seasons as an NFL coach he only had 3 winning seasons, all with Cam Newton as his QB. If we want to find a coach who Cam Newton carried to their only coaching success I'm sure Gene Chizik is available for a lot less money.
I just don't understand how anyone can feel even the slightest bit optimistic that Ron Rivera is somehow the person to get us out of this mess.
I just turned 55 "recently"!
The thinking on RR's NFL coaching is that he coached for two moribund franchises that were hard to win at. And didn't he get to the Super Bowl once and wasn't he NFL CoY twice (or something like that)?
And the talk about him when he was an NFL Head Coach was mostly positive. Far more likely to see his name on a list of Top Ten NFL coaches than Bottom Ten.
That is my recollection and my assessment of why he has been highly regarded. Is that accurate? I'm not nearly "inside" enough to know how he is doing as our GM, except to say that everything seemed to be moving forward until we started actually playing games this season. Seems like about 80% of this has been caused by the OC selection. Should Ron have stepped in and put the kibosh on it? Well, I guess so, in retrospect, but the HC usually gets to pick his Assistants.
Coaching in the NFL is the highest level of the football coaching profession.
People saying Rivera's record as an NFL coach somehow means he wouldn't be a good head coach at Cal is like saying an "average" NBA starter wouldnt be great and would only be an average basketball player at Cal.
That's absolutely not true. Coaching is a boys club and nepotism is rampant. Hue Jackson, Adam Gase, Nathaniel Hackett are all examples of HC coaches that had no business being where they were at. Gase's career was carried by Peyton, much like Rivera by Cam
You ciite guys who were given a shot at being a head coach and were fired after a year and are back to being coordinators to discredit a guy who was an NFL head coach for 13 years? Including getting to the Super Bowl?
Again, that is like comparing a QB who bombed out after a single year in the NFL to a QB who had a 13 year career as a starter and took his team to the Super Bowl. It is wildly not the same.
You forgot to mention Monty Kiffen's son.
BigDaddy said:Cal Not Weak said:
Based on results thus far, RR's administrative/coaching history has done us precisely zero favors. Geoff MacArthur or Tony Gonzalez could have done at least as strong of a job as RR.
Pawlawski, Aaron Rodgers (if he apologizes about his false claims about our academics), Tedford, Cal Strong, Tony Franklin, or Jack Clark might be good replacements for RR's role.
But Leigh Steinberg would be my #1 pick for GM. My backup plan would be Steve Bartkowski.
Leigh Steinberg is 78 years old.
That is younger than our last two presidents. Being the GM of a college football team for a super agent is a lot easier than running a country for a reality tv host or a guy with a stutter. This isn't brain surgery. We just need someone who knows what we are doing. Tosh is young and vibrant enough. An old guy at GM would be fine - so long as they understand salary cap, revenue, contracts, etc. as well as Leigh Steinberg.
So are you proposing that because of the urgency of impending realignment that we replace our GM who has worked to make key infrastructure changes that every single previous football coach at Cal has cited as limiting to success because the coach he hired that nearly everyone universally supported has struggled in his first seven games?
People here obviously don't know Steinberg
He's a dirtbag!
GoCal80 said:DiabloWags said:evanluck said:
Every single one of us who is focused on the success of Cal Football and athletics has a role to play. I am not about to sit on the sideline and Monday morning quarterback the decisions of people who have put more of their blood, sweat, tears and resources on the line than I have. I supported the hire of Tosh. I haven't given up on him.
Ron, Chancelor Lyons and the influential donors have made meaningful infrastructure changes that are in line with long term success. They have as much time and patience from me as a casual fan as they will need to right the ship.
The upcoming "realignment" would like to have a word with you.
^^ this. We were repeatedly told there was urgency because of the upcoming realignment. Perhaps the effort to date could be fairly characterized as a Noble Failure, in which a high-level, passionate effort fell short. I don't think anyone should ever downplay the importance of the "casual fan." I've attended most Cal football home games since my freshman year in 1976, so this is my 50th season as a casual fan. Coaches' and players' high salaries are possible in no small part thanks to "casual fans" who watch games in person and on TV. It's hard to understand the approach Cal leadership took to address this urgency, especially when UCLA, Kentucky, and Oklahoma State turned their programs around instantly by hiring proven head coaches rather than gambling on someone with questionable qualifications based on dubious logic.
Kentucky hired Will Stein the OC from Oregon. He has not been a HC previously.
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