http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/08/01/MNKK1EHAN8.DTL


Tragedy puts UC Berkeley house in spotlight



Had a friend that lived there and bailed within two weeks. That was one scary place to visit him.



Interesting user comment as well:


5:26 PM on August 1, 2010

I think I might be the first to mention that John was the one bringing all of these drugs into the house and selling them to other members. These drugs would not have been there if it weren't for him!

Did you know that, Ms. Bennett?

As for this quote: "She said she doesn't understand why students gave paramedics a detailed list of drugs he took, leading doctors to spend time trying to counteract effects of drugs he hadn't actually taken, she said"

He probably DID take those drugs, just long enough ago that they had left his system (this was over 24 hours after he started his binge, on the previous day which was st patty's day)

There certainly could be more attention paid to the place by the University, but then again with budget cuts how much is the University supposed to do directly? Sounds like they need to step on the cooperative a bit to enforce rules.

On the other hand, a person who behaves as this guy did is not in the state he is in because of Cloyne.

What a poorly written hatched job of an article. She blames the house for bad decisions the kid made and then halfway through throws in an anecdote about a panty raid in the 50's.

Cloyne was garbage when I was a student (Class of 04) - I stopped hanging out with quite a few friends because they moved in there and I wanted no part of that hell hole. What a dump. But the mom is beyond naive - anyone who lives there knows what they are getting into. Cloyne is not going to turn someone into a druggie like her son - he already was.

GMP is right. The person picks the coop for a reason and they each have distinct reputations. I lived in a different co-op but I was nervous to step foot in Cloyne without a crew of friends with me (I went to 2 parties there). Though I did laugh at the commenter who was assigned to Cloyne as an incoming frosh - that shouldn't be allowed to happen.

SonomaBear;355310 said:

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What a poorly written hatched job of an article. She blames the house for bad decisions the kid made and then halfway through throws in an anecdote about a panty raid in the 50's.

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Be carefull wen critisizing porely writtin stuff.

That place was okay a decade ago when I first joined the co-ops. I remember wishing I chose to live there instead of Casa Z. But the two houses went in opposite directions and Cloyne was well into its downward spiral by '02. After Chateau hit rock bottom it was Cloyne's chance to take the fall, I guess.

With that said, the co-ops don't "tolerate" drug use. If your house manager is lax and nobody rats then users, even dealers, can live there no problem. Nobody in my house ever cared if people did drugs, but I remember one pot dealer was kicked out right away when Central Office found out following an altercation.

There's a lot that goes on that will never see the light of day just because it stays within. This goes with any college student residence. But once the cops found out, and the Office found out, you were gone. Its the culture that allows it.

Have to disagree with you BBaer. I also lived in Casa Z (mid-1990s) and thought it was a blast. Great parties without the hardcore drug and criminal element of Cloyne. Cloyne was a dump in the mid 90s too.

How was Casa Z a decade ago?

dajo9;355355 said:

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Have to disagree with you BBaer. I also lived in Casa Z (mid-1990s) and thought it was a blast. Great parties without the hardcore drug and criminal element of Cloyne. Cloyne was a dump in the mid 90s too.

How was Casa Z a decade ago?

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When did you live in Casa Z?

I lived there spring 1997 (my 2nd semester freshman year), and the place was chock full of druggies and drug dealers. My next door neighbor sold heroin. The entire place smelled like pot.

dajo9;355319 said:

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GMP is right. The person picks the coop for a reason and they each have distinct reputations. I lived in a different co-op but I was nervous to step foot in Cloyne without a crew of friends with me (I went to 2 parties there). Though I did laugh at the commenter who was assigned to Cloyne as an incoming frosh - that shouldn't be allowed to happen.

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I disagree with Dajo and GMp. Cloyne was not a "hell hole" when I was at Cal (04) but maybe things have changed. Sure, it wasn't the cleanest place and I wouldn't choose to live there. However, its not like it was some crack house like some are making it out to be. I found most of the residents there to be hippies or pseudo-wannabe-hippies. So, for the most part, everyone was very amiable, happy-go lucky, etc. I definitely didn't feel like I had to take my "crew" to protect me whenever I was there. Sure there were some unsavory activities going on, but for the most part you had to seek those activities out, they didn't seek you out. I have very fond memories of spending the day playing basketball in their backyard, getting unlimited supplies of milk from their milk dispenser, making little english muffin pizzas in their toaster and sitting on their coach to watch the daily show. does such a place sound like a hell hole?

Barrington was already a legend at that time. It was a point that we never thought would be achievable no matter how little we took care of our house. I'm not claiming any coop in the last 20 years compares to how I heard Barrington described.

Isn't there's a poster on this board who lived in Barrington? Maybe they can weigh in...

dajo, from what I remember, Casa Z got really seedy just before the millennium, so maybe after Okaydo was there. Things were already changing for the better by the time I moved in, but there was still the house schizo, the vacated room full of cigarette butts and ash, and one dealer. There was a housing crunch around that time that brought a lot of "ordinary" students to the house, which helped clean it up a lot. The eccentric types who remained were pretty mellow, more or less like the normal kids but just with a few unique weekend hobbies...

They closed the place down around '06 or '07 for seismic renovation. I'm not sure if it's been reopened and have no idea who lives there now.

The great thing about Casa Z?

I lived in a triple by myself.

It was so nasty, disgusting, dirty that they were unable to fill all the rooms.

Im sorry as f'd up as I might sound, the kid had it coming. He was reckless and died doing something he knew was bad for him. I like how his mother set up a fund for him, just a way to get money out of your son's mistake.

I currently go to Berkeley and everyone knows Cloyne is not a drug-free place. Shoot, everywhere you go - there are going to be drugs.

Point is - if this kid is a saint like his mother makes him out to be, he wouldnt have done drugs in the first place. Bad parenting on her part. She's just trying to fault others for it.

Thanks for the info. It provides an interesting timeline of the coops. In the early 90s Casa Z threw some of the best parties in Berkeley. Close to 1,000people would pay $4 at the door to party. It is why I moved in there.

Security was hired, id's were checked and wrist bands distributed for access to the kegs. The proceeds from the party were used to throw in-house parties and other upgrades. One night we had steaks and wine / beer catered on the rooftop for residents +1 guest . The band Rancid played at one of our parties before they were famous for $50 and all the beer they could drink. I heard that Primus and Green Day played at Casa Z parties in earlier years. I lived there for the entire year of 1994 and I'm sorry it went downhill after I left. I'm not sure it ever had a wait list but every room was full including my triple.

Was Heidi's Room still "available" on a reservation basis in later years?

Chateau was a dump (and home of The Naked Guy). Because it was on the southside it had problems with the homeless that the northside coops didn't have.

Barrington became Cloyne. All the people moved there. Clearly some of you spent more time at Cloyne than me but I was told that many unsavory non-student types hung out there because of the drug scene and they didn't have much control over who was in and out. My few visits there didn't change that impression. In any case, that was a long time ago.

It's the off season, so I'm going to share my best Cloyne Court story.

It was 04 when a smart, quiet, but troubled Austrian by the name of Ludwig Boltzmann moved into Cloyne Court. The newly completed University housing on North Side was upscale in 1904, and was seen as proper housing for the famed physicist's semester in Berkeley. Ludwig however, soon soured on dry Berkeley, and was typically hard to find, unless you found your way to his favorite pub in North Oakland.

The following lines are from Reif's Volume 5 of the "Berkeley Physics Course":

"Boltzmann did pioneering work in statistical physics and contributed greatly to the development of the atomic theory of gases, which he put in its modern quantitative form. introduced the basic relation S = k ln (omega) connecting entropy with the number of accessible states. Botlzmann's work came under heavy attack by a whole school of thought which argued that physical theory should not deal with purely hypothetical concepts such as atoms. Discouraged, Boltzmann wrote in 1898, "I am conscious of being only an individual struggling weakly against the stream of time." Increasingly subject to poor health and depression, Boltzmann committed suicide in 1906. Shortly thereafter, physics took a major turn, and the work of Einstein, Millikan, and others began showing the correctness and utility of Boltzmann's approach."

I'll close with a few words that are more useful for most of us, in this modern world, "be careful out there guys". Within the last year I gave the eulogy for the 21 year old son of a good friend.

The police chief's hell hole comment perfectly sums up my recollection of Cloyne Ct and pretty much the coop system in general. I remember touring Casa Zimbabwe towards the end of my freshman year as I had not yet found post-dorm housing... it was just disgusting: grafitti fully covering all the walls, prison like rooms with concrete floors, drugs everywhere, and, worst of all, the 250 pound asian girl that encouraged me to move in because "we all have sex with each other here". Is that a threat?

My impression of the co-ops (as someone else mentioned earlier in this thread) is that they are for hippie wannabes and drug addicts and to be honest I'm shocked any former coop residents post on a football board. Most co-op residents I've met would be much more likely to dump $hit buckets on arborists whilst lighting up with Dumpster Muffin.

I've had season tickets to the Bears since my 1977 Freshman year and I lived for 4 years at Cloyne Court. Although it sounds dirtier now, the drug aspect doesn't seem to have changed much. When I lived there a wide variety of drugs (and alcohol) was available to anyone who wanted them. As social manager one quarter I was responsible for the Thursday afternoon happy (two) hour bar in the basement. There was 25 cent Acme Beer available in the beer machine downstairs, the candy vending machines in the commons area were stocked with condoms and joints (I belive the condoms cost a dime and the joints 50 cents), and for a couple of years in the early 80's their were fairly regular nitrous oxide House parties as a result of another social manager who developed a friendship with a rogue delivery driver for a welding company.

Many of the friends who I still attend Cal football games with today also lived there with me. We were (young) adults, and most of us were reasonably responsible, most of the time, and made the right decisions. In a group college living situation of 150 people, you can't avoid a certain percentage of loosers and bad seeds. I understand that the building has deteriorated since those days, but the culture doesn't sound that different. If you read the Chronicle story and accompanying comments, you will see that the young man who suffered the drug related incident had been in juvenile hall, filled in high school standardized tests by filling in bubbles to say "tests suck", was kicked out of the dorms for incidents of vandalism, and may have been a major drug dealer as well as a user. Don't blame Cloyne Court or coops in general; this kid was an accident that was going to happen. I feel sorry for his family, but I still think they are also somehow responsible for his actions; don't just blame the easy targets even though that seems to sell newspapers. The Chronicle in general has seemed to be in a "Bash U.C. Berkeley" mode for a couple of years now.

I think the question here is how much guidance/supervision/restrictions should be put on college students, particularly those under twenty-one.

When I was at Cal, I was treated like an adult, i.e. my parents were suddenly TOTALLY out of the picture and I was left to fend for myself. That was probably a good thing, although, as I look back on it, I was probably more of a teenager than an adult.

So that's the side I come down on: Here kid, you're at Cal now, make your own decisions and you'll be better for the process.

On the other hand, recent studies have tended to show that the human brain does not reach maturity in terms of due caution/risk-taking/decision-making until the EARLY-TO-MID-TWENTIES.

So maybe the intellectual elite that come to Cal these days need to be saved from themselves, to some extent, until their maturity begins to approach their academic prowess. Maybe when my kids get into college, I will have totally changed my POV on this issue.

And then some. I have been there in very recent years (2007-2008; the place closed down in Fall 2008 to Spring 2009 for renovation and seismic retrofitting, and reopened in Fall 2009). Right up until the closure of the house, the place was a downtrodden, drug-riddled, kick-ass place to be at. When the house closed, the dining room tiling was coming off, and right near the dining room entrance, a growing mud pit emerged because of the missing floor tiling - and nobody cared. Managers were busy growing pot in their closets (they would layer foil and put lamps inside of a closet dresser, and put plants in there to sell product to rest of the house). In my first semester there, we turned the house basement into a speakeasy every other weekend, but we stopped doing that because we realized it would be really stupid if the USCA (now the BSC) office heard we were selling alcohol without a license. In the spring of 2009 we threw a huge outdoor rave that violated every noise ordinance known to man, and our social scene was shut down for 6 months; apparently the social manager for that event also embezzled most of the social funds (a couple thousand dollars I think) for a cocaine binge that some of the house members took advantage of. I have seen people at parties really ****ed up on ecstasy, acid was a hot drug, and to top it off there is a local convenience store a block away that sells beers and 40s without checking IDs; once in a blue moon the manager of the store would show up to house parties and recieve enthusiastic responses. No matter what, there was always something to elevate your mind with. At its peak, the house would go through 150+ condoms a week (the health manager would put a bag in front of her door for house consumption, which would be raided at a frightening pace). My room situation the first year was nuts; one of my roommates would leave lines of coke on his desk, and several times I would wake up during the day and find him having sex with another house member; after awhile I didn't even care that he would be screwing somebody right in front of me, I found it hilarious. Ah...

And let's establish something about Caza Zimbabwe - that house is full of wannabes who wish they were Clones. In the 2000s, the Cloyne and CZ coops have been at each other's throats over who has the best parties, drugs, and who can pull off the best pranks (one time some Clones were able to make out of CZ with one of their pool tables). Everything that CZ has, Cloyne does bigger, badder, dirtier and better. F*** CZ. Be jealous ya losers.

SonomaBear;355310 said:

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What a poorly written hatched job of an article. She blames the house for bad decisions the kid made and then halfway through throws in an anecdote about a panty raid in the 50's.

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Disagree. It was no hatchet job. I hope my son who is at Cal never gets that disaster.

AirOski;355523 said:

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Disagree. It was no hatchet job. I hope my son who is at Cal never gets that disaster.

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Cloyne is one of the more wonderful places to enjoy your college years in Berkeley.

Strykur;355524 said:

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Cloyne is one of the more wonderful places to enjoy your college years in Berkeley.

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That's just like ... your opinion ... man.

:chainsaw

Strykur;355522 said:

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And let's establish something about Caza Zimbabwe - that house is full of wannabes who wish they were Clones. In the 2000s, the Cloyne and CZ coops have been at each other's throats over who has the best parties, drugs, and who can pull off the best pranks (one time some Clones were able to make out of CZ with one of their pool tables). Everything that CZ has, Cloyne does bigger, badder, dirtier and better. F*** CZ. Be jealous ya losers.

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They look pretty cool to me.

things haven't changed at all then in the past 15 years

Strykur;355522 said:

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And let's establish something about Caza Zimbabwe - that house is full of wannabes who wish they were Clones. In the 2000s, the Cloyne and CZ coops have been at each other's throats over who has the best parties, drugs, and who can pull off the best pranks (one time some Clones were able to make out of CZ with one of their pool tables). Everything that CZ has, Cloyne does bigger, badder, dirtier and better. F*** CZ. Be jealous ya losers.

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Dream on... this was exactly the direction CZ people imagined things were headed down at Cloyne. What has you all confused is the notion that we were jealous... :rollinglaugh:

Things have changed - CZ was not like Cloyne 15 years ago. Sounds like it has moved in that direction though.

2ndQtrBear;355485 said:

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The police chief's hell hole comment perfectly sums up my recollection of Cloyne Ct and pretty much the coop system in general. I remember touring Casa Zimbabwe towards the end of my freshman year as I had not yet found post-dorm housing... it was just disgusting: grafitti fully covering all the walls, prison like rooms with concrete floors, drugs everywhere, and, worst of all, the 250 pound asian girl that encouraged me to move in because "we all have sex with each other here". Is that a threat?

My impression of the co-ops (as someone else mentioned earlier in this thread) is that they are for hippie wannabes and drug addicts and to be honest I'm shocked any former coop residents post on a football board. Most co-op residents I've met would be much more likely to dump $hit buckets on arborists whilst lighting up with Dumpster Muffin.

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Classic.

Every co-op I ever wandered in to reminded me of Buffalo Bill's basement in Silence of the Lambs- frightening filth and complete depravity. They were also crawling with a strangely elitist mixture of punks and Dumpster Muffins.

To be fair, most of the fraternities were pretty much the same, except they wore different outfits.

2ndQtrBear;355485 said:

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The police chief's hell hole comment perfectly sums up my recollection of Cloyne Ct and pretty much the coop system in general. I remember touring Casa Zimbabwe towards the end of my freshman year as I had not yet found post-dorm housing... it was just disgusting: grafitti fully covering all the walls, prison like rooms with concrete floors, drugs everywhere, and, worst of all, the 250 pound asian girl that encouraged me to move in because "we all have sex with each other here". Is that a threat?

My impression of the co-ops (as someone else mentioned earlier in this thread) is that they are for hippie wannabes and drug addicts and to be honest I'm shocked any former coop residents post on a football board. Most co-op residents I've met would be much more likely to dump $hit buckets on arborists whilst lighting up with Dumpster Muffin.

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Well done.

I lived in Casa Z during my 1st semester (Fall '95). It was definitely an eye-opening experience. During my time, there was an acid-in-the-milk-dispenser scare and someone killed themselves by jumping out of the window to the alley below. I preferred sleeping on the ground at a friend's in Unit 2. I moved out in the spring to the band house and it felt like heaven. Scary thought...

Quote:

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My impression of the co-ops (as someone else mentioned earlier in this thread) is that they are for hippie wannabes and drug addicts and to be honest I'm shocked any former coop residents post on a football board. Most co-op residents I've met would be much more likely to dump $hit buckets on arborists whilst lighting up with Dumpster Muffin.

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2QB, your prejudice is showing. You might want to check that.

Signed, Davis House alum, poster on this site since July '04 (yeah that is before the latest affilliation), and avid Cal football follower since '96.

Also for the other poster, I just happen to be too lazy to make another post, but who goes to Cal, joins a frat, and differentiates themselves from those in the co-ops?! Are you proud of the fact that you succumbed to peer pressure, subjected yourself to hazing just for the right to suck on bongs and kegs every day of the week? Tell me, how does that make you any different than the stereotypical co-op resident? I dont get it. Maybe your frat was cleaner, but frats in general are dirty and they smell like stale beer. Sorry but there's a little "hippy" backlash for you. ;-)

*sigh* I'm beginning to feel that this board has changed and somehow I am now reading the wrong board everyday. I must say I feel less compelled to post with each passing day =(. Heck if it weren't for the prop 8 post, I'd feel like I was on an SEC board! *@%$^!

BombEater98;355813 said:

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I lived in Casa Z during my 1st semester (Fall '95). It was definitely an eye-opening experience. During my time, there was an acid-in-the-milk-dispenser scare and someone killed themselves by jumping out of the window to the alley below. I preferred sleeping on the ground at a friend's in Unit 2. I moved out in the spring to the band house and it felt like heaven. Scary thought...

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I [U]left[/U] the dorms for Casa Z.

I spent my first semester at Unit 3 Norton Hall, lived on the all-male 2nd floor, received a load of (homophobic) abuse because we were all guys and took the elevator to the 2nd floor, had a roommate who was up all night and slept all day, making my life jarring.

So the next semester (spring 97) I moved to Casa Z, which, as I mentioned above, was filthy but I lived in a triple by myself. So that was awesome! (Although I lived every day of the semester with the fear that the next person to move into the house would be my roommate.)

BancroftSteps;355867 said:

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2QB, your prejudice is showing. You might want to check that.

Signed, Davis House alum, poster on this site since July '04 (yeah that is before the latest affilliation), and avid Cal football follower since '96.

Also for the other poster, I just happen to be too lazy to make another post, but who goes to Cal, joins a frat, and differentiates themselves from those in the co-ops?! Are you proud of the fact that you succumbed to peer pressure, subjected yourself to hazing just for the right to suck on bongs and kegs every day of the week? Tell me, how does that make you any different than the stereotypical co-op resident? I dont get it. Maybe your frat was cleaner, but frats in general are dirty and they smell like stale beer. Sorry but there's a little "hippy" backlash for you. ;-)

*sigh* I'm beginning to feel that this board has changed and somehow I am now reading the wrong board everyday. I must say I feel less compelled to post with each passing day =(. Heck if it weren't for the prop 8 post, I'd feel like I was on an SEC board! *@%$^!

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I checked my prejudice- the coops are still for filthy hippie drug addicts. At least the frats use gentlemen's drugs, like coke. Sorry the board has changed. In these dark times I encourage you to take comfort in the memories of last week's 200 post Phish concert thread. No one can ever take that away from you.

LOL! In good taste, 2QD, well done!

Ironically, the drug that you mentioned was the demise of the co-opper of topic.

Funny you mentioned Phish, but I just entered a local homebrew contest with a beer I named Ripple in Still Water. Truthfully, that paints me as more of a hippy than I actually am. The wife is the big Dead fan. ;-)

Indeed, most of the damning evidence about the co-ops here is anecdotal. One counter example and the "prejudice" would seem to be exposed. But on the other hand, why should I be so worked up about it? All we need now is an article posted about a frat pledge who nearly died form BAC of .30 after while being forced to drink gin and soy sauce through a straw and balance would return to the universe. But you know, the fall is just around the corner ;-)

LafayetteBear;355544 said:

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I'm glad I was a member of, and lived in, a fraternity. I knew some folks who lived in the coops when I was in school, and most (not all) of them had some personal hygiene and drug issues.

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Yep. This article demonstrates the university's hypocrisy regarding fraternities. The university has taken no action to shut down Cloyne, yet they often launch investigations into fraternities for trifling things, like playing loud music or something.

BancroftSteps;355872 said:

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LOL! In good taste, 2QD, well done!

Ironically, the drug that you mentioned was the demise of the co-opper of topic.

Funny you mentioned Phish, but I just entered a local homebrew contest with a beer I named Ripple in Still Water. Truthfully, that paints me as more of a hippy than I actually am. The wife is the big Dead fan. ;-)

Indeed, most of the damning evidence about the co-ops here is anecdotal. One counter example and the "prejudice" would seem to be exposed. But on the other hand, why should I be so worked up about it? All we need now is an article posted about a frat pledge who nearly died form BAC of .30 after while being forced to drink gin and soy sauce through a straw and balance would return to the universe. But you know, the fall is just around the corner ;-)

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I would like to let it be known that I hate(d) fraternities as much, if not more than, I hate(d) the co-ops. Frats are terrible, but Co-ops are frats for kids who thought they were too cool for frats...and showers. And yes, the houses were equally disgusting.