Not Very OT: Cal vs. Stanfurd (private) Endowment

4,709 Views | 26 Replies | Last: 14 yr ago by WildBear
MolecularBear007
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I discovered a somewhat disturbing fact today:

Berkeley's endowment: 3-4 billion
Stanford's endowment: 15-16 billion

Why do Cal alumni not give back? Why has the university really failed at securing our financial future?

I feel that the low cost of tuition has actually hurt Berkeley's fundraising opportunities. Older alumni just do not realize the value of donating back to the university.
Adrian The Cal Bear
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MolecularBear007;731986 said:

I discovered a somewhat disturbing fact today:

Berkeley's endowment: 3-4 billion
Stanford's endowment: 15-16 billion

Why do Cal alumni not give back? Why has the university really failed at securing our financial future?

I feel that the low cost of tuition has actually hurt Berkeley's fundraising opportunities. Older alumni just do not realize the value of donating back to the university.


Haha I just graduated and Cal has already been asking me to donate $$ to the school. That being said, I don't think the University is doing a great job in enticing alumnis to donate at all.

For starters - requiring alums to pay for access to the Career Center website is quite absurd. Unemployed Cal alums could use every little piece of assistance they can get in today's economy. I think it's unfair to charge alums in order to use such a basic (yet extremely helpful) service. Believe me, if I have the money, I would donate in a heartbeat. But Cal is not helping me at all find a job.

That being said, I think the individual Cal alumni associations are awesome. Shout out to the DC one as the people there were amazing. I don't know how much they donate to the school's endowment fund (if they do at all), but Alumni associations are a great benefit of being a Cal alum.

As for Furd's endowment fund, private schools are always going to have higher endowment funds. They depend on them a lot more than public schools do (although I feel that is slowly changing due to the budget crisis in California).
dimitrig
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MolecularBear007;731986 said:

I discovered a somewhat disturbing fact today:

Berkeley's endowment: 3-4 billion
Stanford's endowment: 15-16 billion

Why do Cal alumni not give back? Why has the university really failed at securing our financial future?

I feel that the low cost of tuition has actually hurt Berkeley's fundraising opportunities. Older alumni just do not realize the value of donating back to the university.



Cal's endowment is low because if it was high it would be subject to be raided by the State or else the State would reduce funding to compensate. Stanford has no such concerns.


Forget Stanford, why is University of Texas' endowment so large?
calumnus
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MolecularBear007;731986 said:

I discovered a somewhat disturbing fact today:

Berkeley's endowment: 3-4 billion
Stanford's endowment: 15-16 billion

Why do Cal alumni not give back? Why has the university really failed at securing our financial future?

I feel that the low cost of tuition has actually hurt Berkeley's fundraising opportunities. Older alumni just do not realize the value of donating back to the university.


It is not all alumni donations. Stanford has grown their endowment from things like building a golf course and major shopping center on campus land (and collecting $millions every year in rents and fees) and has done a better job of claiming royalties from commercialization of research done at the university. One thing they have been very good at: soliciting and accepted large amounts of appreciated stock (more important when capital gains taxes were higher) and they have been in on IPOs (Yahoo and Google, I believe).

Also, while both were started around the same time, Stanford began with a huge endowment from the estate of Leland Stanford (his original intent was that Stanford would not have to ever charge tuition) has been aggressively growing their endowment for over 120 years, all while charging high tuition instead of no tuition as Stanford intended, which, through the miracle of compounding and tax-exemption has lead to the huge endowment they have today.

Cal had strong support from the state until relatively recently, so many Cal alums decided other places had greater need for their donations. Even early on, many of the big donors (such as Phoebe Hearst) donated for specific building projects instead of just giving cash to the endowment (that happens at Stanford too, but my impression is to a much lesser extent).

$3 - 4 billion is still a lot of money. $4 billion at 5% produces $200 million a year in interest. That would be $10,000 per each of our 20,000 undergrads.
calumnus
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dimitrig;731998 said:

Cal's endowment is low because if it was high it would be subject to be raided by the State or else the State would reduce funding to compensate. Stanford has no such concerns.


Forget Stanford, why is University of Texas' endowment so large?


2.1 million acres of West Texas taken by the state legislature and donated to the university endowment in 1883 intended for "grazing leases" but where oil was later discovered and has been in major production since the 1920's. By 1925, oil from the endowment lands was producing $4 million (in 1925 dollars, 1925 oil prices) annually and increasing $2,000 per day (again 1925 dollars)....
Quote:

In 1883, the year UT was opened, an endowment was established by the state of Texas that donated 2.1 million acres in West Texas to help UT. Not much was expected of the desolate land besides to perhaps develop it for real estate. In the 1920's curious men acquired drilling permits from UT, hoping to strike it rich. There were in fact huge oil discoveries. Oil from the Permian Basin has generously provided for the UT system. The PUF continues to receive royalties from oil and gas production in West Texas while the AUF, Available University Fund, continues to receive all surface lease income. Surface lease usually entails "grazing and easements for power lines and pipelines."1


Really, the question shouldn't be, "why is the UT endowment so big?," the question should be "why isn't it bigger?"
SoCalBear323
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Cal's Endowment is around $4.5 Billion. That's good for around 20th in the nation.

$2.1B Managed by the UC Regents
$2.4B Managed by the Berkeley Endowment Management Company (raised since 2008 with the help of Chancellor Birgeneau)

They are getting much better at asking for money, the pamphlets they send out are quite good. I gave money thinking that would make them stop coming but it seems like that just made them come more frequently. :bear:
liverflukes
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I wouldn't worry about furd too much. Harvard is the real enemy here:

and this is old... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/23/harvards-endowment-grows-_n_977500.html

BOSTON Harvard University said on Thursday that its largest-in-the-nation endowment earned a profit of $4.4 billion in fiscal 2011, growing to a robust $32 billion.

It marks the second year in a row of strong growth for an endowment that fell by $11 billion to $26 billion during the fiscal year that ended June 2009. The endowment grew to $27.6 billion in the 2010 fiscal year.

Harvard Management Company President and CEO Jane Mendillo said active management of investments to meet the primary objectives of growth, liquidity and risk management secured growth in the latest year.

The endowment has earned an average annual return of 12.9 percent over the past 20 years.

Harvard's endowment helps to fund the school's educational and research programs, including student financial aid for more than 60 percent of undergraduate students receiving scholarships totaling more than $160 million this year.
Out Of The Past
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MolecularBear007;731986 said:

I discovered a somewhat disturbing fact today:

Berkeley's endowment: 3-4 billion
Stanford's endowment: 15-16 billion

Why do Cal alumni not give back? Why has the university really failed at securing our financial future?

I feel that the low cost of tuition has actually hurt Berkeley's fundraising opportunities. Older alumni just do not realize the value of donating back to the university.


When I contacted the Wheeler Society some years ago, the society administrator I spoke with told me Cal was late in the game in starting an endowment, in contrast to Stanford the Ivy schools. The Ivy endowments got major boosts in the 70's and have been cooking along ever since. They have been substantially helped by alumni contributions in the form of wills and trusts. I don't recall receiving information from Cal about the endowment and the existence of gifting to Cal programs until the mid 90's.

I am guessing that Cal was late in the game because they believed the state would provide enough funding without significant outside contribution. I believe Cal's endowment is privately chartered and controlled by independent administrators for Cal, and not subject to raiding by the state. UCLA has started one also, it is somewhat smaller than Cal's. I often wonder if the existence of the endowments is seen by some in the legislature as a reason to reduce funding to the University. In truth, Cal is not a public university, it is a university that receives some degree of public support. About ten percent in Cal's case.
brobrobro
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I will go with Adm has not done even an OK job working Alumni. I have a masters from Syracuse and a BArch from Cal, I was a regular Cal donor for many years and when I moved Cal lost me, every time. I Have never been a donor to Syracuse and they have never lost me.

Seems to me to be an attitude, still operating as if 80% of funding came from the State, no longer the case.
HaasBear04
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I thought the gap was bigger than that. $4 billion isn't bad. I expect Stanford's will mushroom once more of their silicon valley sugar daddies start contemplating their mortality.
WCC-TheBearingPoint
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MolecularBear007;731986 said:

I discovered a somewhat disturbing fact today:

Berkeley's endowment: 3-4 billion
Stanford's endowment: 15-16 billion

Why do Cal alumni not give back? Why has the university really failed at securing our financial future?

I feel that the low cost of tuition has actually hurt Berkeley's fundraising opportunities. Older alumni just do not realize the value of donating back to the university.



Cal alumni do not give back because they have, understandably, viewed Cal forever as a public institution with sufficient means for funding. That, as we know, is not the case. Cal alumni will, should they decide it is not in their interest to donate early and often to their alma mater, be in for a rude awakening when further cuts to programs and athletics are necessary due to poor intake of alumni and other sponsor donations.

Cal is a private university. It will be a private university for the foreseeable future. If we enjoyed cheap tuition prior to 2000, so be it, but it's a different world for young alum and new students. They need New and Old Blues to fork over cash. Lots of it. Or find comfort in the continuing downward spiral of the institution and its rankings (and the value of each degree it has conferred to alumni over the past few decades).

To be a respected institution of higher learning, the institution's leadership needs access to reliable sources of capital over a long period of time. Our endowment should be competitive with schools we compete against for students. We know who those schools are, we know what their endowments look like, we know what work is ahead of us.

Dust off the checkbook (or PayPal password), it's time for the University's alum to 'pay their fair share' for the wealth and prestige enjoyed due to their Cal degree. Times are a'changing. It's now time to pony up.
Oski87
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I think there is a much greater awareness of Cal's plight with the very public gutting of higher education funding and educational funding in general in the state, as well as much more outreach by Cal. It would be nice to get the endowment up to much higher standards.

My though was to float a bond of 50 billion to endow the university, and tell the State that they did not have to give Cal any more money - just pay off the bond - however long they wanted. 100 years sounds good. That would reduce the cost to the state in the short run and give Cal a huge endowment that could be used to offset the wildly fluctuating tuition. Or something like that.
Bear8
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Anyone know how much of the endowment Cal is allowed (or required) to spend per annum? And, what must it spend it on?

Harvard sits there with 32B, which must give their administrators great comfort. But it doesn't require even 1B to do R&D or provide labs or other research to students and faculty. That endowment challenges the budgets of some countries.
bencgilmore
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HaasBear04;732307 said:

I thought the gap was bigger than that. $4 billion isn't bad. I expect Stanford's will mushroom once more of their silicon valley sugar daddies start contemplating their mortality.


This. I seem to recall it being in the 1-2billion range the last time I saw #'s (probably 5 years ago? - obviously my recollection is a bit off if its 4-4.5 billion now).

I agree Cal's only done an average job finding effective ways for me to donate. They did have the program a few years ago where they'd triple any donation you made, clearly unsustainable long-term but a good way to 'prime the pump' as it were. Would be nice if they'd put on a once a year event in SF and LA where regardless of how much you donated you could hear some big Cal alums/backers speak, meet people and have a few cocktails. Sure, you'd have some people who'd donate $5 and attend but you'd have plenty that donate much more too, and having a solid 'rah rah Cal' event can only help.

Okay, mainly I just want some drinks. Who am I kidding?
pingpong2
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I think there's a litany of reasons why our endowment numbers are behind Stanfurd and even U$C.

1) We do a terrible job of grooming future donors. When I was at Cal, I didn't feel like the administration and support staff cared about the success of their students. A large chunk of that might come from being at a school with so many students, but from my experience having worked on-campus, it felt like a large chunk of the employees (not all, mind you, as there are excellent ones too) are just going through the motions and looking at a cushy pension, not because they actually care about the students.

2) Since in-state students cannot be charged tuition (that's why they're called student fees), it feels like the school nickle and dimes you when you look at the breakdown of what you're paying for. At Furd and U$C, you get everything neatly encapsulated (or hidden) in the tuition, so it feels like they're giving you a bunch of free perks (i.e. you can get a new ID card ever semester for free at U$C, whereas Cal charges you something like $30 for each new card). There's also random fees like the compulsory class-pass fee that's exposed in the breakdown, whereas it's basically built into the tuition elsewhere.

3) The media coverage of protests on campus has painted students as self-entitled brats. For instance, the trashing of University House, setting fires on Sproul, pulling fire alarms during exams, preventing students from going to class, etc. makes it less likely that alumni will be willing to donate, IMO. Even though I know that the majority of students are sane, the vocal minority still bug the hell out of me.

4) Back to point 1, the calls asking for donations just rub me the wrong way. For instance, I graduated with a degree in CS from L&S, not COE. I never got any benefits from COE that COE students got. However, lo and behold after I graduate, COE comes after me with phone calls and letters asking me to donate to them. Many of my friends who also graduated L&S CS have gotten the same calls and share a similar sentiment. Ironically, I have never gotten any calls or emails from L&S asking me for donations...

5) Of course, the elephant in the room is that Stanfurd students may end up becoming more financially successful than Cal students on average. Now, that could be because they tend to come from wealthier families to begin with, but regardless of the reason it does appear that Stanfurd alums tend to have more disposable income, or at least more heavy hitters who can toss around hundreds of millions in donations at a time.

6) There's a feeling that the school tends to waste your money, given how much bureaucracy and red tape there is. For instance, when buildings go up on campus, they take in extremely long time to get put up. I don't know about Stanfurd, but at U$C the buildings are completed much much quicker. It could be that it legitimately takes longer to do construction at Berkeley, but the overall feel is still that we are more wasteful with the money they have, since you have to pay a retention fee for the construction company even if they can't work on the site.

7) Having worked on-campus, I may be biased, but there's a huge use-it-or-lose-it mentality when it comes to spending. Often times, departments or organizations would spend money on things they don't need rather than have it be reabsorbed into the University's general fund. From an organizational perspective, there really wasn't a whole lot of community between different departments; everything was pretty much it's own isolated little business unit with very little cross-departmental interaction or communication. I don't know if the same issue plagues Stanfurd, but this is something that really bums me out, especially when we're already in a budget crunch.

8) Operational Excellence was a joke. While I understand it's an investment, spending $3 million during a budget crunch doesn't send the best message to students and alums. A good friend of mine worked on the project at Bain and would constantly joke about how ridiculously easy it was to find areas to cut costs and consolidate resources. He mentioned that the school could have probably turned the project into something Haas could work on instead of paying Bain $3 million.

All that being said, I still donate, but the above are reasons why I can see others may not be so willing.

Edited to add:
I just remember another thing. Getting into the necessary classes (forget classes I wanted to take) was a huge PITA for me, either because classes would be full, or they just wouldn't fit in my schedule because there would be only one 400 student lecture rather than four 100 student lectures. Sadly, this kind of stuff is undoubtedly due to funding, and the problem just snowballs, as more students become jaded by not being able to take the classes they want or need and wind up leaving Cal with a soured relationship.
SoCalBear323
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"I think there's a litany of reasons why our endowment numbers are behind Stanfurd and even U$C."

Our endowment is not smaller than USC's. USC does have less students, so they have more money per student but our overall endowment is more than theirs, and their reported endowment is taking into account Keck School of Medicine.
dimitrig
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SadbutTrue999;732417 said:

This. I seem to recall it being in the 1-2billion range the last time I saw #'s (probably 5 years ago? - obviously my recollection is a bit off if its 4-4.5 billion now).

I agree Cal's only done an average job finding effective ways for me to donate. They did have the program a few years ago where they'd triple any donation you made, clearly unsustainable long-term but a good way to 'prime the pump' as it were. Would be nice if they'd put on a once a year event in SF and LA where regardless of how much you donated you could hear some big Cal alums/backers speak, meet people and have a few cocktails. Sure, you'd have some people who'd donate $5 and attend but you'd have plenty that donate much more too, and having a solid 'rah rah Cal' event can only help.

Okay, mainly I just want some drinks. Who am I kidding?


Not if you donate $5, but at some level - say, $300.

I want to hear about the research being done. I want to see the plans for the new stadium (and be allowed to preview it at a grand opening). I want a quarterly newsletter. I want discounts on Cal apparel. I want to hear Wozniak (or other famous alums) talk about how their experience at Cal and how it helped their careers or personal development. Yes, cocktails, finger foods, and a jazz band twice a year might help. Do *something* to make it worth my while.


I have a friend who went to Stanford and Stanford offers these really neat travel programs where one can go to exotic locales and hear professors lecture about them. Yale does the same thing. If Cal has something like that (they probably do) I never heard about it.


I graduate with a Mathematics degree and the Department used to send out a newsletter periodically. I enjoyed reading it. Then, due to cuts, it stopped appearing. Out of sight, out of mind.
pingpong2
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SoCalBear323;732528 said:

"I think there's a litany of reasons why our endowment numbers are behind Stanfurd and even U$C."

Our endowment is not smaller than USC's. USC does have less students, so they have more money per student but our overall endowment is more than theirs, and their reported endowment is taking into account Keck School of Medicine.


Doesn't ours include Haas and Boalt? I'm sure if we had a med school it would be included too...

In any case the numbers I saw was $3.5B for them and $3.15B for us. That's really sad given that we are a world-renowned research institution.
bencgilmore
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dimitrig;732530 said:

Not if you donate $5, but at some level - say, $300.

I want to hear about the research being done. I want to see the plans for the new stadium (and be allowed to preview it at a grand opening). I want a quarterly newsletter. I want discounts on Cal apparel. I want to hear Wozniak (or other famous alums) talk about how their experience at Cal and how it helped their careers or personal development. Yes, cocktails, finger foods, and a jazz band twice a year might help. Do *something* to make it worth my while.

I graduate with a Mathematics degree and the Department used to send out a newsletter periodically. I enjoyed reading it. Then, due to cuts, it stopped appearing. Out of sight, out of mind.


I think an entry-level event with a reasonable minimum donation - a lot less than $300 but closer to $20, where you get to hear some Cal athletics figures, some Nobel prize people, some sort of job networking and general outreach & support, etc (and cheap drinks) would do a very good job of getting younger alums involved. The type of alums that can't afford $300 now, may be struggling to find a job and may be slightly annoyed at the university's effort to support them thus far... the same alums that will be making the big donations in 5, 10, 25 years.

Basically all I hear from Cal these days is the occasional COE letter asking for money. As others have said before, I didn't feel I got a whole ton of career services from them - when I was unemployed last year all I got out of the career department was a 'how to write a resume' guide. This is one of the areas where private schools bury Cal.
SoCalBear323
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pingpong2;732533 said:

Doesn't ours include Haas and Boalt? I'm sure if we had a med school it would be included too...

In any case the numbers I saw was $3.5B for them and $3.15B for us. That's really sad given that we are a world-renowned research institution.


We're at 4.5 Billion.
pingpong2
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SoCalBear323;732541 said:

We're at 4.5 Billion.


If that's true, it means that we should probably be updating our figures:

http://www.berkeleyendowment.org/about.html
bencgilmore
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pingpong2;732533 said:

Doesn't ours include Haas and Boalt? I'm sure if we had a med school it would be included too...

In any case the numbers I saw was $3.5B for them and $3.15B for us. That's really sad given that we are a world-renowned research institution.


Of course if we had one it'd count, he's saying that med schools get a lot of investment (wouldn't be surprised if it was more than business or law schools in general, particularly for schools with huge hospital systems like USC).

What is UCLAs?
pingpong2
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sadbuttrue999;732547 said:

of course if we had one it'd count, he's saying that med schools get a lot of investment (wouldn't be surprised if it was more than business or law schools in general, particularly for schools with huge hospital systems like usc).

What is uclas?


$2.64b
SoCalBear323
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pingpong2;732545 said:

If that's true, it means that we should probably be updating our figures:

http://www.berkeleyendowment.org/about.html


Yeah, you're looking at figures almost a year old.

Berkeley Endowment Management Company has $2.4 billion (Up from $1.05 billion) according to this recent article:

http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2012/03/13/chancellor-birgeneau-announces-he-will-step-down-at-years-end/

Assuming the money managed by the UC Regents stayed at $2.1B (it probably grew) that puts the endowment at around 4.5 Billion.

Where would we be without Chancellor Birgeneau? With a $2 billion dollar endowment and losing professors to the Ivies left and right.
bencgilmore
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pingpong2;732550 said:

$2.64b


Interesting. Doing pretty well on that front.. UCLA has to have a larger alumni base at this point AND has a huge medical school.
ColoradoBear
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SadbutTrue999;732563 said:

UCLA has to have a larger alumni base at this point AND has a huge medical school.


Cal has around 445k living alumni and UCLA has 385k living alumni.

https://wiki.ucop.edu/display/UC101/Alumni
bencgilmore
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ColoradoBear1;732568 said:

Cal has around 445k living alumni and UCLA has 385k living alumni.

https://wiki.ucop.edu/display/UC101/Alumni


How long has UCLA been bigger than Cal? I was under the impression it'd been 50 years or so. I guess we still have a decent number of 20s/30s grads still kicking where UCLA was just getting going at that time.
WildBear
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I think the type of students they let in is a big difference. My wife's boss is the daughter of one of the higher ups at at a larger corporation/hedge fund type place. The sister of said boss went to Stanford Law many years ago. She liked the expirence so much that she ended up donating $100M. You gotta think when people whose family is THAT rich apply, they look at the long term future, not just the next few years.

I remember many years ago, maybe 1998? that the daughter is Larry Sonsini, one of the founders of probably the best tech firm in the world, got into Cal with good, but not great SAT scores. Daily Cal published them and caused a huge issue. Wouldn't be the worst thing to allow a few legacies in like that.
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