Is that considered theft?

"Guard tower two to Coach Tedford...we've spotted
a Cal tightwad fan trying to get a peek at your football practice...
but don't worry sir....we'll take care of him!"

burritos;735457 said:

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Is that considered theft?

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only if you keep your eyes open.

but watch out, that 1st step is tricky

A more serious answer: I'd guess it's considered trespassing.

Football teams have imposed a mandate that all watchers must pay. These people refuse to observe that mandate and the Supreme Court will soon decide on their legitimacy

FiatSlug;735508 said:

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A more serious answer: I'd guess it's considered trespassing.

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Even if they are Cal students?

burritos;735518 said:

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Even if they are Cal students?

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Being a Cal student does not entitle someone to go anywhere they want on campus. Are Cal students free to enter their teacher's offices? The sports locker rooms? Haas Pavilion? The administration offices? No.

grandmastapoop;735536 said:

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Being a Cal student does not entitle someone to go anywhere they want on campus. Are Cal students free to enter their teacher's offices? The sports locker rooms? Haas Pavilion? The administration offices? No.

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A dirt patch is off limits? This is Berkeley after all. And I'm just asking.

Could be. Has it been posted NO TRESPASSING?

I'm sure that campus admin has the legal power to post NO TRESPASSING on its property, should there be a determination that this is in the University's best interests.

Hey, there are brass plaques at certain spots on campus that have language to the effect that the right to pass is subject to the approval of the Regents.

GB54;735510 said:

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Football teams have imposed a mandate that all watchers must pay. These people refuse to observe that mandate and the Supreme Court will soon decide on their legitimacy

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SCOTUS is hearing testimony on this issue from Oski right now. I heard we have no chance since Justices Kennedy and Breyer are both Furds.

Seriously, trespassing or no, it's gotten so much publicity as being a fun, good thing, unless the authorities come up with a clear announcement, violations will never be enforced. With no enforcement, it's only technically trespassing -- just like tens of thousands of Berkeley pedestrians technically violate the law by jaywalking.

Are you serious? That is one of the great college football traditions sitting on tightwad. My family has been going to Cal games since the 30s even some of my late fathers friends sat up there. We have always had tickets single game or season for generations but tightwad was always rocking.

Boot;735599 said:

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Are you serious? That is one of the great college football traditions sitting on tightwad. My family has been going to Cal games since the 30s even some of my late fathers friends sat up there. We have always had tickets single game or season for generations but tightwad was always rocking.

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I personally don't think it's theft.

I like to catch a game a year up there. Its fun and the beer keeps flowing. I wouldn't bring kids up there though, wouldn't want them exposed to the aroma.

how much of the actual playing field can you see from there?

muddlehead1;735650 said:

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how much of the actual playing field can you see from there?

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Depends where you are up there, but if you get a good seat (in the middle of the clearing), you see the whole field. A few of the regulars up there weed-whack and get it cleaned up before the season starts. Its self policed, and the regulars do a pretty good job of cleaning up after the games etc.

burritos;735606 said:

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I personally don't think it's theft.

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Quote:

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Now it so happened in the days of old Edo, as Tokyo was once called, that the storytellers told marvelous tales of the wit and wisdom of His Honorable Honor, Ooka Tadasuke.

This famous judge never refused to hear a complaint, even if it seemed strange or unreasonable. People sometimes came to his court with the most unusual cases, but Ooka always agreed to listen. And the strangest case of all was the famous Case of the Stolen Smell.

It all began when a poor student rented a room over a tempura shop - a shop where fried food could be bought. The student was a most likeable young man, but the shopkeeper was a miser who suspected everyone of trying to get the better of him. One day he heard the student talking with one of his friends.

"It is sad to be so poor that one can only afford to eat plain rice," the friend complained.

"Oh," said the student, "I have found a very satisfactory answer to the problem. I eat my rice each day while the shopkeeper downstairs fries his fish. The smell comes up, and my humble rice seems to have much more flavor. It is really the smell, you know, that makes things taste so good."

The shopkeeper was furious. To think that someone was enjoying the smell of his fish for nothing! "Thief!" he shouted, "I demand that you pay me for the smells you have stolen."

"A smell is a smell," the young man replied. "Anyone can smell what he wants to. I will pay you nothing!"

Scarlet with rage, the shopkeeper rushed to Ooka's court and charged the student with theft. Of course, everyone laughed at him, for how could anyone steal a smell? Ooka would surely send the man about his business. But to everyone's astonishment, the judge agreed to hear the case.

"Every man is entitled to his hour in court," he explained. "If this man feels strongly enough about his smell to make a complaint, it is only right that I, as city magistrate, should hear the case." He frowned at the amused spectators.

Gravely, Ooka sat on the dais and heard the evidence. Then he delivered his verdict.

"The student is obviously guilty," he said severely. "Taking another person's property is theft, and I cannot see that a smell is different from any other property."

The shopkeeper was delighted, but the student was horrified. He was very poor, and he owed the shopkeeper for three month's smelling. He would surely be thrown into prison.

"How much money have you?," Ooka asked him.

"Only five mon, Honorable Honor," the boy replied. "I need that to pay my rent, or I will be thrown out into the street."

"Let me see the money," said the judge.

The young man held out his hand. Ooka nodded and told him to drop the coins from one hand to the other.

The judge listened to the pleasant clink of the money and said to the shopkeeper, "You have now been paid. If you have any other complaints in the future, please bring them to the court. It is our wish that all injustices be punished and all virtue rewarded.

"But most Honorable Honor," the shopkeeper protested, "I did not get the money! The thief dropped it from one hand to the other. See! I have nothing." He held up his empty hands to show the judge.

Ooka stared at him gravely. "It is the court's judgement that the punishment should fit the crime. I have decided that the price of the smell of food shall be the sound of money. Justice has prevailed as usual in my court."

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I Love Tightwad

Judge Ooka was wise, indeed.

i'm a fan. i like seeing all y'all up on the hillside. a nice touch. and the cannon - a bonus.

calumnus;735734 said:

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I Love Tightwad

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Fun story @calumnus. I wonder if Mooch told that story to the Cal players.

:woohoo:bluecarrot::bravo:rollinglaugh::newnana::beer::p:cheer:

http://www.cp.berkeley.edu/LRDP/UCB-Segmented_pdfs/Hill_area-Other_properties.pdf

Stated Appropriate Uses:

Field ( as in CMS field) Station (as in KGO 810) for Behavioral Research (what does Tedford do now).

Recreation (as in climbing a damn steep hill carrying beer, sandwiches and a lounge chair)

Nope, not stealing or trespassing.....in fact, encouraged.

CHEERS!!
GO BEARS!!!!

Bears2thDoc;735932 said:

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http://www.cp.berkeley.edu/LRDP/UCB-Segmented_pdfs/Hill_area-Other_properties.pdf

Stated Appropriate Uses:

Field ( as in CMS field) Station (as in KGO 810) for Behavioral Research (what does Tedford do now).

Recreation (as in climbing a damn steep hill carrying beer, sandwiches and a lounge chair)

Nope, not stealing or trespassing.....in fact, encouraged.

CHEERS!!
GO BEARS!!!!

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If it were considered a crime, like stealing intellectual property, it would be enforced against the PHA folks who after all have built permanent structures to that end...

When you talk of Cal football, tightwad hill is part of the lore, just like:

the view
the cannon
the marching band
card stunts--and ignoring the admonition not to throw the cards
the old visitors locker room

I years to come we will tell our children and grand children about the tree sitters and the brave men and women who brought them down, and the year at candlestick. We may even reference the lawsuit brought by the frineds of tightwad hill to reserve their "rights."

sp4149;736016 said:

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If it were considered a crime, like stealing intellectual property, it would be enforced against the PHA folks who after all have built permanent structures to that end...

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Other than the enforcement issue, how is it any different from stealing intellectual property.

burritos;736046 said:

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Other than the enforcement issue, how is it any different from stealing intellectual property.

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I would think that watching from Tightwad Hill is more akin to listening to a concert from outside the fence, or watching the Giants through the right field hole. Without enforcement to limit trespass, the University would be viewed as permitting the viewing from Tightwad Hill.

FiatSlug;735569 said:

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Could be. Has it been posted NO TRESPASSING?

I'm sure that campus admin has the legal power to post NO TRESPASSING on its property, should there be a determination that this is in the University's best interests.

Hey, there are brass plaques at certain spots on campus that have language to the effect that the right to pass is subject to the approval of the Regents.

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Installed in the spring of '64, IIRC.

Signed, not MarioSavioLives

I watched part of a game from the top row of Husky Stadium. The view from Tightwad Hill is better.

CalBearJim;736864 said:

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I watched part of a game from the top row of Husky Stadium. The view from Tightwad Hill is better.

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And better than about 50% of the seats at the Coliseum (100% of the ones assigned to Cal and other visitors).

FiatSlug;735853 said:

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Judge Ooka was wise, indeed.

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I really appreciated Calumnus' story of Judge Ooka. It's too bad that the politicized judges on the Supreme Court are not as wise or compassionate. They would be much more respected by all of us.

When I was a child, my father told me another of Judge Ooka's cases:

Ooka Echizen no Kami Tadasuke was a famous judge in old Japan, who was known for his wisdom and compassion. One day he was approached by a young sobbing woman and told of her sad plight. She had had a son out of wedlock and was too poor to provide for her child. So she gave her baby son to a wealthy woman in the same town while hoping that her child would be better provided for. Two years later she married and was now able to give her son the care and support that he needed. But when she asked the wealthy woman for her son back, her request was turned down.

Both women came before the judge with their claims for the boy. After calmly listening to the arguments of both, he said that the only way to settle this dispute was to give the boy to the woman who loved him the most. He ordered both women to grab one of the boy's hands and pull until one of them emerged victorious in the tug-of-war.

Both women began tugging despite the obvious discomfort and pain of the child. Suddenly the natural mother, unwilling to cause more pain to the child, let go of his hand, and the boy went tumbling over to the adoptive mother's side. As the adoptive mother celebrated her hard-fought victory, Judge Ooka intervened and proclaimed that the natural mother instead would be given custody of the boy because she clearly had the boy's welfare and happiness as her priority.

I don't know if you agree with the verdict. It seems that both sides would have a valid case in today's courts. But I have never forgotten the lessons to be learned in Judge Ooka's common-sense and humanitarian way of dealing with everyday disputes.

burritos;736046 said:

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Other than the enforcement issue, how is it any different from stealing intellectual property.

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As for copyright, it is not fixed in any tangible manner of expression that can be perceived recollected or reproduced.

it is therefore not infringement.