CalGrad95;842795663 said:
Do we even have the personnel to make that happen?
BearChemist;842795673 said:
Did also mention will recruit more OLB type so eventually might switch to 3-4. Not sure it will happen immediately though.
Right now, clearly not. I think we have the guys for the front 3 in Looney, Saffle, and Westerfield... but little depth. As far as linebackers though, there is downs and Tongilava? We need a lot more LB type athletes to switch into a 3-4 base. I bet he goes with a 4-3/4-2-5 look at least this first year and then recruits for athletic LBers to fit the 3-4 moving forward.CalGrad95;842795663 said:
During his press conference JW said his familiarity was with the 3-4 defense, and that he would coach to that.Do we even have the personnel to make that happen?
BearChemist;842795673 said:
Did also mention will recruit more OLB type so eventually might switch to 3-4. Not sure it will happen immediately though.
briloker;842795683 said:
Right now, clearly not. I think we have the guys for the front 3 in Looney, Saffle, and Westerfield... but little depth. As far as linebackers though, there is downs and Tongilava? We need a lot more LB type athletes to switch into a 3-4 base. I bet he goes with a 4-3/4-2-5 look at least this first year and then recruits for athletic LBers to fit the 3-4 moving forward.
KoreAmBear;842795700 said:
Our 2-deep for linebackers last year (due to injuries, transfers and lack of recruiting) was pathetically skimpy. It was a big reason why our D was so poor. It will take some time to rebuild that LB corps. But that's Justin's specialty.
Yea, didn't mean to leave anyone off, figured there might be some guys without much PT or that redshirted/transfer in that help with the depth too, but just stating the obvious, we don't have 3-4 ILB and 4-5 OLB to run the 3-4 currently on the roster. You can add some bodies in the next couple weeks and maybe throw some guys together, but there would likely be guys playing that weren't ready at that position, especially when you get a couple injuries throughout the season.dajo9;842795713 said:
Don't forget Kunaszyk. To my eye he had the only MLB body on the team. Probably due to his not having been on the team for very long.
briloker;842795683 said:
Right now, clearly not. I think we have the guys for the front 3 in Looney, Saffle, and Westerfield... but little depth. As far as linebackers though, there is downs and Tongilava? We need a lot more LB type athletes to switch into a 3-4 base. I bet he goes with a 4-3/4-2-5 look at least this first year and then recruits for athletic LBers to fit the 3-4 moving forward.
jamonit;842795751 said:
Saffle, Weaver, Westerfield, Howard, etc are all OLB in a 3-4. Looney and out our small DTs are 3-4 DEs. Looney is actually the perfect 3-4 DE
AlbertaBear;842795788 said:
Agreed. We don't have anyone close to NT body type. Perhaps someone like Malik McMorris is in for a position change.
MinotStateBeav;842795794 said:
Just so we get the names right on a 3-4 lol..
............TE...OT....G...C..G......OT......
...OLB/DE.....DT........NT.......DT......OLB/DE....
..........................OLB......OLB..........................
Might be good to try a 4-3 over/under type scheme as a transition if we don't have the bodies for the 3-4 for a year, but I trust Wilcox..he knows a helluva lot more about the defensive side of the ball than I do lol. Regardless..we're likely to see mostly nickel this year anyway as most of the conference runs some kind of spread.
Quote:
UW fans who attend the final practice of the spring at noon Saturday won't learn much about Wilcox's tendencies.
Like Aranda, however, Wilcox is not married to using one front. He prefers multiple fronts and schemes depending on the strength of his personnel and the tendencies and strengths of the opposition.
"You talk about scheme, which is important," he said. "But there's a lot of ways to do it. There's a 4-3, a 4-2-5, a 3-4 and a 3-3-5 and it all works.
"It is just what is best for your players, what fits the program and learning the personnel. Everybody is a little different. You don't treat them all the same. You have to know what certain guys need."
For example: Aranda used a 2-4-5 as his base for much of the first half of last season because of the type of offenses UW faced.
"And a lot of that sometimes is semantics," Wilcox said. "Because the outside linebackers line up as defensive ends in a nickel defense. We'll do some of that. Some people call it a 2-4-5 and some people call it a 4-2-5.
"There are certain (times) you might have all your best rushers on the field and there might not be any big guys. Might be all linebackers."
FuzzyWuzzy;842795813 said:
These days most call your "DT" a "DE." It's what Cam Jordan and Tyson Alualu played when they were here, and they are prototypes in terms of size, 270-290 lbs. What you call DE/OLB is usually referred to as OLB these days. Your terminology sounds like the old Oklahoma 52, which is basically a 3-4.
And your third row, I think you meant ILB, obviously.
briloker;842795823 said:
Correct, this is a 5-2 defense and was common 20+ years ago. The 3-4 has the DE replaced with an OLB, who will play upright (usually, even if they move up on the line) and usually more off the ball unless his side is covered by a TE. It puts the same number of guys (5 - DE, NT, DE, ILB, ILB) in position inside the tackles to stop the run as a 5-2 (5 - DT, NT, DT, ILB, ILB), but adds the versatility to hide blitz packages better and cover guys in the passing game that was hard to do with the 5-2 and a dedicated pass-rushing DE on the outside.
briloker;842795823 said:
Ex-player Chris McCain makes for an excellent OLB in the 3-4 defense, as to who would be ideal in size/athleticism for that position, and I agree that a 275-290 lb DE with athleticism (fast hands, good movement in his hips to get around guys..) and a 290-350 lb NT with strength to require double teams is ideal in the 3-4. Maybe we don't have those guys on the current roster, with one or two exceptions, but we could probably get by with the guys we have in the DE/NT positions until we can recruit for the system.
FuzzyWuzzy;842795871 said:
I think there is even less difference than you do. In the old 5-2, the "DE" actually stood up, a two-point stance. The weak side DE lined up outside the OT, was usually uncovered, and usually dropped into coverage on pass plays - his typical assignment would be curl to flat. Does that sounds like a weak side 3-4 OLB to you? Yeah, me too. The strong side DE usually played in a two-point stance as well, head up on the TE (the TE side was usually the strong side of the formation). He often rushed the passer because he had a strong safety behind him to play the curl to flat coverage. Does that sound like a 3-4 strong side OLB? Me too.
My theory is that it became sexier and more fashionable to call those two edge players "OLB" rather than "DE" and then to call the defense a 3-4 instead of a 5-2. Who wants to be a down "lineman" when you can be a "linebacker"? Similarly, the two ogres who played DT in the 5-2 got upgraded to the sexier "DE" in the 3-4. Same defense, different position names.
FuzzyWuzzy;842795871 said:
I think there is even less difference than you do. In the old 5-2, the "DE" actually stood up, a two-point stance. The weak side DE lined up outside the OT, was usually uncovered, and usually dropped into coverage on pass plays - his typical assignment would be curl to flat. Does that sounds like a weak side 3-4 OLB to you? Yeah, me too. The strong side DE usually played in a two-point stance as well, head up on the TE (the TE side was usually the strong side of the formation). He often rushed the passer because he had a strong safety behind him to play the curl to flat coverage. Does that sound like a 3-4 strong side OLB? Me too.
My theory is that it became sexier and more fashionable to call those two edge players "OLB" rather than "DE" and then to call the defense a 3-4 instead of a 5-2. Who wants to be a down "lineman" when you can be a "linebacker"? Similarly, the two ogres who played DT in the 5-2 got upgraded to the sexier "DE" in the 3-4. Same defense, different position names.
