BYU has moved back to USA Rugby D-1.https://rugby.byu.edu/schedule

Also:

"At the 2016 Varsity Cup annual general meeting, participating universities voted unanimously, with one abstention, to strip BYU of its 2015 title for using an ineligible player in the 2015 Varsity Cup postseason." http://www.rugbytoday.com/college/varsity-cup-shuffle-byu-stripped-title

Wow

Does this mean that Cal is now the champion? I believe we played them in the final game. Do you think we were the abstention?

IMO, collegiate rugby has two strikes against it for gaining more general support:

1. The laws (n.b. not "rules") of the game are not generally understood by the U.S. public (hell, even inveterate rugby fans like me don't understand all of them).

2. The organization of collegiate teams is equally chaotic- from 1980 to about 2010 there was one league (run by USA Rugby) that was broken up into a variety of local "conferences" - Cal was one of 7 teams in the northern California Rugby Union (Stanford, UC Davis, St. Mary's, Sac State, Chico & Univ. Nevada Reno were the other 6 I believe). The NCAA was NOT involved. Then in 2010 rugby split into 2 championship tracks - the best teams were in Division 1A (called the College Premier Division) with the others in Division 1AA. A couple of years later the top 8 teams formed the Varsity Cup competition. Cal & BYU were among them, and these two teams have won all the championships between them.
Cal is now in the PAC Rugby Conference, which is ALMOST congruent with the PAC12, but I don't think ALL PAC12 schools field rugby teams - at least we don't play them all.

And this is just for the 15s version. There is also the 7's version (this is the sport that will be in the Olympics), and I have no idea how that is organized, but there are lot more schools with 7's teams than 15's.

And then there is Womens's rugby, which, I think, IS an NCAA sport.

And by the way, rugby is a winter and spring sport in California and the south, but a fall sport in the northeast US.

Confused yet?

Chabbear;842807784 said:

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BYU has moved back to USA Rugby D-1.https://rugby.byu.edu/schedule

Also:

"At the 2016 Varsity Cup annual general meeting, participating universities voted unanimously, with one abstention, to strip BYU of its 2015 title for using an ineligible player in the 2015 Varsity Cup postseason." http://www.rugbytoday.com/college/varsity-cup-shuffle-byu-stripped-title

Wow

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For us rugby no-nothings:

1. What is the difference between D-1 and Varsity Cup?

2. Is UBC in the NCAA or is that a non-NCAA, exhibition game?

3. What are the factors that lead to UBC and Cal being so successful in rugby? I can guess why BYU is so successful...

4. Finally, do we give scholarships for rugby?

chalcidbear;842807804 said:

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IMO, collegiate rugby has two strikes against it for gaining more general support:

1. The laws (n.b. not "rules") of the game are not generally understood by the U.S. public (hell, even inveterate rugby fans like me don't understand all of them).

2. The organization of collegiate teams is equally chaotic- from 1980 to about 2010 there was one league (run by USA Rugby) that was broken up into a variety of local "conferences" - Cal was one of 7 teams in the northern California Rugby Union (Stanford, UC Davis, St. Mary's, Sac State, Chico & Univ. Nevada Reno were the other 6 I believe). The NCAA was NOT involved. Then in 2010 rugby split into 2 championship tracks - the best teams were in Division 1A (called the College Premier Division) with the others in Division 1AA. A couple of years later the top 8 teams formed the Varsity Cup competition. Cal & BYU were among them, and these two teams have won all the championships between them.
Cal is now in the PAC Rugby Conference, which is ALMOST congruent with the PAC12, but I don't think ALL PAC12 schools field rugby teams - at least we don't play them all.

And this is just for the 15s version. There is also the 7's version (this is the sport that will be in the Olympics), and I have no idea how that is organized, but there are lot more schools with 7's teams than 15's.

And then there is Womens's rugby, which, I think, IS an NCAA sport.

And by the way, rugby is a winter and spring sport in California and the south, but a fall sport in the northeast US.

Confused yet?



And that is just for the 15s. I'm not sure if the 7's teams follow the same organization or not. And then there is women's rugby,

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Helpful, thanks! Feel free to take a crack at my other questions...

FuzzyWuzzy;842807807 said:

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For us rugby no-nothings:

1. What is the difference between D-1 and Varsity Cup?: D-1 sponsored by USA Rugby (not NCAA) while the Varsity Cup is a group of 14 schools who left D-1 to host their own championship. Cal is among the varsity cup colleges

2. Is UBC in the NCAA or is that a non-NCAA, exhibition game? UBC= University of British Columbia and they play in a British Columbia based league. We play them due to decades of history.

3. What are the factors that lead to UBC and Cal being so successful in rugby? I can guess why BYU is so successful... Lots of answers to this question but I would say great leadership for over 100 years and the amazing support of the Cal rugby donors

4. Finally, do we give scholarships for rugby?

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: No, Cal does not offer scholarships. A few colleges do and a few other colleges have varsity teams like Cal

Does anyone have a copy of the entire championship game from last year? I saw few clips but would love to see the whole match against BYU.

There are some full game videos of Cal vs BYU Varsity Cup Championship games on YouTube. Unfortunately, most aren't labeled with the year, so you'll have to start watching and figure out if it's the right one.

MoragaBear;842807841 said:

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Well, Cal was already the champion. You must be thinking about 2015.

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That's exactly what I meant. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Champion for 2015.

Chabbear;842807784 said:

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BYU has moved back to USA Rugby D-1.https://rugby.byu.edu/schedule

Also:

"At the 2016 Varsity Cup annual general meeting, participating universities voted unanimously, with one abstention, to strip BYU of its 2015 title for using an ineligible player in the 2015 Varsity Cup postseason." http://www.rugbytoday.com/college/varsity-cup-shuffle-byu-stripped-title

Wow

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I guess California politicians don't care that BYU doesn't allow LGBT students (let the fun begin)?

wifeisafurd;842807882 said:

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I guess California politicians don't care that BYU doesn't allow LGBT students (let the fun begin)?

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I mean they already got shunned from the Pac-12 for that (among other "cultural" differences).

wifeisafurd;842807882 said:

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I guess California politicians don't care that BYU doesn't allow LGBT students (let the fun begin)?

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What does that have to do with this?

You mean after all the posts about not playing NC and Ole Miss (two schools that actually have non-bias rules in place) there is no objection from hypocritical posters and politicians that Cal regularly plays a school that actually bans LGBT conduct?

wifeisafurd;842807920 said:

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You mean after all the posts about not playing NC and Ole Miss (two schools that actually have non-bias rules in place) there is no objection from hypocritical posters and politicians that Cal regularly plays a school that actually bans LGBT conduct?

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No, the question was what does that have to do with this, a rugby thread? Must every post have to be about political grandstanding?

socaliganbear;842807922 said:

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No, the question was what does that have to do with this, a rugby thread? Must every post have to be about political grandstanding?

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Agreed. Your right. I was just trying to needle the holier than though crowd. Unnecessary.

wifeisafurd;842807942 said:

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Agreed. Your right. I was just trying to needle the holier than though crowd. Unnecessary.

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Also, they do have LGBT students at BYU. LGBT students are admitted and attend, though the honor code prohibits certain homosexual behaviors (as well as heterosexual). Not saying I agree with the honor code, just pointing out a nuance.

I will be at the UBC game this weekend and will try to obtain some sort of a sane answer to the organizational questions. Not sure I can, but I'll try. The Varsity Cup has corporate sponsorship and from what I understand, is a well run competition that has gotten national televisions exposure from NBC. If true that BYU is leaving the competition, I am not at all sure how this plays out, given that BYU and Cal are the premier teams in U.S. Collegiate rugby, though representation in D1 is very good thanks in great measure to St. Mary's, Life University and some other lesser known but competitive schools. To be honest, I gave up trying to understand the organizational situation long ago. USA Rugby just seems to have been a mess, from what I can see. Heck, one of my old teams in Seattle (Old Puget Sound, now Seattle Saracens) plays predominately Canadian competition. I have no idea what organization they're under. None of this is good for a great sport that is gaining in popularity here in the states, and is really gaining popularity among college athletes.

Anyway, I'll try to get something concrete to contribute, if 1) I can get good answers and 2) if I can UNDERSTAND the answers

BearGoggles;842807965 said:

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Also, they do have LGBT students at BYU. LGBT students are admitted and attend, though the honor code prohibits certain homosexual behaviors (as well as heterosexual). Not saying I agree with the honor code, just pointing out a nuance.

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Your comments are technically accurate, and in fact the BYU honor code expressly says "gay people" are welcome. But separate is not equal.

The honor code says no homosexual conduct. So for example, that means no sex if your a married gay, which is obviously different for straight married couples. BYU received (like other church based schools) an exception from Title 9 form out Obama administration and the NCAA so there is no protection from rape or sexual assault against someone LGBT. The code also excludes all same gender affection or attraction, so no kissing (your asked to leave campus if your a straight couple if you want to kiss, your expelled if you gay) or touching, which is not the same for straight students (straight couples can hold hands for example). It also means no dating, also something heterosexual couples can do. In fact, there is no discussion allowed about dating or relationships (guys that have had there girlfriends continually ask about their relationships may wish this policy was extended to the straight population). Professors and students openly make jokes about the LGBT and face no sanctions due to the Title 9 exclusion. Gay students are constantly asked why they don't give up their spot for a straight student (BYU apparently is not that easy to get into and has cheap tuition). There is no LGBT organization permitted on campus. None of this would happen at the U. of North Carolina.

Then there is the joke about what sex act BYU coeds don't consider sex (just look at the label of Provo Girl Pilsner) and see how that choice is not open to to gay students.