Cal to move a portion of stadium debt off athletic department's books
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Last: 8 yr ago by 71Bear
Reported here several times already, FWIW.
Thank you Okaydo.- despite being repuked for old news it was news to me that Christ doesn't want to eliminate sports. Good post
This seems like new info to me, but if it was already reported, can you point me to the thread so that I can follow? Thanks. In any case, this sounds like great news!UrsaMajor said:
Reported here several times already, FWIW.
Very good news!
They should move all the debt for the rebuild off the Athletic Department's books.
We can hope or dream, but it is likely just another shell game, trying to hide the debt long enough to get their own pensions before the dam breaks.
I remember discussing with a fellow UC alum (now a financially secure progressive socialist), the massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration. I said to her that any economic unit, whether it is a single person, a married couple, a self-employed businessman, a partnership, or a corporation, will fail if it continues year after year to spend a lot more money than it generates in income.
Her reply to me was, "Governments are different." I was stunned. In the face of facts, including the collapse of several communist and socialist governments, plus the impending failure of progressive-run Illinois and the failures of cities, like Detroit, Stockton, and San Bernardino, how could anyone believe such a fantasy?
Government includes UC Berkeley, which is a part of the California State Government educational system. The system has been run into the ground, especially over the last 50+ years of progressive leadership and its poor management, poor decisions, and self-serving greed. The State can no longer support a very low cost quality University, as the people who fund the state, the citizens, are being taxed to the limit. UC Berkeley now is forced to depend more and more on private contributions, landing research grants, higher and higher fees for students, including the implementation of tuition around 1970.
The University was founded to provide free education to the students of the State. Some students came from out of state, and they were charged a tuition from 1921 onwards. Those tuition fees also increased greatly over time. And since the University could charge higher fees of out of state and foreign students, they began to admit more and more of them, to the exclusion of many students who were citizens of the state, which subverted the original intent of establishing a public university in the first place. Another progressive program to admit undocumented applicants puts a little more pressure on citizen students, as there are now fewer and fewer slots available for them. There are only so many slots. My high school class of 300 sent 100 of us to Cal in 1959. I am still close to many of those classmates, and none of their children or grandchildren has been admitted to study at Cal.
The problem is that you can only get so much money out of taxpayers, and so much money out of students, and so much money from private contributions, before the bubble bursts. The University needs to reign in its well-intentioned but unaffordable management decisions and expenditures. The obvious start would be the salaries and pensions, but even the obvious low-hanging fruit will be painful to take away from those who expect it. But why should government employees get higher salaries and gold-plated pensions and benefits, when private industry workers do not get such largesse?
I remember discussing with a fellow UC alum (now a financially secure progressive socialist), the massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration. I said to her that any economic unit, whether it is a single person, a married couple, a self-employed businessman, a partnership, or a corporation, will fail if it continues year after year to spend a lot more money than it generates in income.
Her reply to me was, "Governments are different." I was stunned. In the face of facts, including the collapse of several communist and socialist governments, plus the impending failure of progressive-run Illinois and the failures of cities, like Detroit, Stockton, and San Bernardino, how could anyone believe such a fantasy?
Government includes UC Berkeley, which is a part of the California State Government educational system. The system has been run into the ground, especially over the last 50+ years of progressive leadership and its poor management, poor decisions, and self-serving greed. The State can no longer support a very low cost quality University, as the people who fund the state, the citizens, are being taxed to the limit. UC Berkeley now is forced to depend more and more on private contributions, landing research grants, higher and higher fees for students, including the implementation of tuition around 1970.
The University was founded to provide free education to the students of the State. Some students came from out of state, and they were charged a tuition from 1921 onwards. Those tuition fees also increased greatly over time. And since the University could charge higher fees of out of state and foreign students, they began to admit more and more of them, to the exclusion of many students who were citizens of the state, which subverted the original intent of establishing a public university in the first place. Another progressive program to admit undocumented applicants puts a little more pressure on citizen students, as there are now fewer and fewer slots available for them. There are only so many slots. My high school class of 300 sent 100 of us to Cal in 1959. I am still close to many of those classmates, and none of their children or grandchildren has been admitted to study at Cal.
The problem is that you can only get so much money out of taxpayers, and so much money out of students, and so much money from private contributions, before the bubble bursts. The University needs to reign in its well-intentioned but unaffordable management decisions and expenditures. The obvious start would be the salaries and pensions, but even the obvious low-hanging fruit will be painful to take away from those who expect it. But why should government employees get higher salaries and gold-plated pensions and benefits, when private industry workers do not get such largesse?
Hmmm....perhaps we should have left the stadium as it was and just used it until it was condemned.
Outstanding post SF. The problem with progressives is that they truly believe people can never be taxed too much. There's always another cause to spend money on and oppressed people to give freebies to. And regarding admission to Cal, if you're a caucasian, legal California resident and come from a middle class or upper middle class family, your chances of getting into Cal are not good in spite of your grades, test scores, and activities in high school.SFCityBear said:
We can hope or dream, but it is likely just another shell game, trying to hide the debt long enough to get their own pensions before the dam breaks.
I remember discussing with a fellow UC alum (now a financially secure progressive socialist), the massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration. I said to her that any economic unit, whether it is a single person, a married couple, a self-employed businessman, a partnership, or a corporation, will fail if it continues year after year to spend a lot more money than it generates in income.
Her reply to me was, "Governments are different." I was stunned. In the face of facts, including the collapse of several communist and socialist governments, plus the impending failure of progressive-run Illinois and the failures of cities, like Detroit, Stockton, and San Bernardino, how could anyone believe such a fantasy?
Government includes UC Berkeley, which is a part of the California State Government educational system. The system has been run into the ground, especially over the last 50+ years of progressive leadership and its poor management, poor decisions, and self-serving greed. The State can no longer support a very low cost quality University, as the people who fund the state, the citizens, are being taxed to the limit. UC Berkeley now is forced to depend more and more on private contributions, landing research grants, higher and higher fees for students, including the implementation of tuition around 1970.
The University was founded to provide free education to the students of the State. Some students came from out of state, and they were charged a tuition from 1921 onwards. Those tuition fees also increased greatly over time. And since the University could charge higher fees of out of state and foreign students, they began to admit more and more of them, to the exclusion of many students who were citizens of the state, which subverted the original intent of establishing a public university in the first place. Another progressive program to admit undocumented applicants puts a little more pressure on citizen students, as there are now fewer and fewer slots available for them. There are only so many slots. My high school class of 300 sent 100 of us to Cal in 1959. I am still close to many of those classmates, and none of their children or grandchildren has been admitted to study at Cal.
The problem is that you can only get so much money out of taxpayers, and so much money out of students, and so much money from private contributions, before the bubble bursts. The University needs to reign in its well-intentioned but unaffordable management decisions and expenditures. The obvious start would be the salaries and pensions, but even the obvious low-hanging fruit will be painful to take away from those who expect it. But why should government employees get higher salaries and gold-plated pensions and benefits, when private industry workers do not get such largesse?
Actually, Cal has very few "underrepresented minorities." If you're bemoaning the number of Asians at Cal, I guess that's your prerogative; however, the number of African American, Hispanic, and Native American students is way less than their percentage in the population.Golden One said:Outstanding post SF. The problem with progressives is that they truly believe people can never be taxed too much. There's always another cause to spend money on and oppressed people to give freebies to. And regarding admission to Cal, if you're a caucasian, legal California resident and come from a middle class or upper middle class family, your chances of getting into Cal are not good in spite of your grades, test scores, and activities in high school.SFCityBear said:
We can hope or dream, but it is likely just another shell game, trying to hide the debt long enough to get their own pensions before the dam breaks.
I remember discussing with a fellow UC alum (now a financially secure progressive socialist), the massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration. I said to her that any economic unit, whether it is a single person, a married couple, a self-employed businessman, a partnership, or a corporation, will fail if it continues year after year to spend a lot more money than it generates in income.
Her reply to me was, "Governments are different." I was stunned. In the face of facts, including the collapse of several communist and socialist governments, plus the impending failure of progressive-run Illinois and the failures of cities, like Detroit, Stockton, and San Bernardino, how could anyone believe such a fantasy?
Government includes UC Berkeley, which is a part of the California State Government educational system. The system has been run into the ground, especially over the last 50+ years of progressive leadership and its poor management, poor decisions, and self-serving greed. The State can no longer support a very low cost quality University, as the people who fund the state, the citizens, are being taxed to the limit. UC Berkeley now is forced to depend more and more on private contributions, landing research grants, higher and higher fees for students, including the implementation of tuition around 1970.
The University was founded to provide free education to the students of the State. Some students came from out of state, and they were charged a tuition from 1921 onwards. Those tuition fees also increased greatly over time. And since the University could charge higher fees of out of state and foreign students, they began to admit more and more of them, to the exclusion of many students who were citizens of the state, which subverted the original intent of establishing a public university in the first place. Another progressive program to admit undocumented applicants puts a little more pressure on citizen students, as there are now fewer and fewer slots available for them. There are only so many slots. My high school class of 300 sent 100 of us to Cal in 1959. I am still close to many of those classmates, and none of their children or grandchildren has been admitted to study at Cal.
The problem is that you can only get so much money out of taxpayers, and so much money out of students, and so much money from private contributions, before the bubble bursts. The University needs to reign in its well-intentioned but unaffordable management decisions and expenditures. The obvious start would be the salaries and pensions, but even the obvious low-hanging fruit will be painful to take away from those who expect it. But why should government employees get higher salaries and gold-plated pensions and benefits, when private industry workers do not get such largesse?
Thank god this post became political.
Anyone else see some irony in a post by "Golden One"?
My impression -- and I could be absolutely wrong -- is that UC Berkeley could fill 5 freshman classes with students who have 4.5 GPAs, great test scores and loads of extracurricular activities.
On another note, people are against "affirmative action" (or special preferences) until they are for it.
University of Texas at Austin is about 20% Asian and 45% white. But I can imagine if those numbers were reversed*, white people in Texas would be outraged that so many Asians got in based on merit and that they don't have a "legacy" at the school.
(*UC Berkeley is about 35% Asian and 27% white.)
On another note, people are against "affirmative action" (or special preferences) until they are for it.
University of Texas at Austin is about 20% Asian and 45% white. But I can imagine if those numbers were reversed*, white people in Texas would be outraged that so many Asians got in based on merit and that they don't have a "legacy" at the school.
(*UC Berkeley is about 35% Asian and 27% white.)
I'm not at all bemoaning the number of Asians at Cal. And the percentage of African American, Hispanic, and Native Americans in the population has nothing necessarily to do with the numbers of those groups enrolled at Cal. The relevant metric is the percentage of those ethnicities who have the qualifications to get into Cal compared to the percentage of them actually enrolled.UrsaMajor said:Actually, Cal has very few "underrepresented minorities." If you're bemoaning the number of Asians at Cal, I guess that's your prerogative; however, the number of African American, Hispanic, and Native American students is way less than their percentage in the population.Golden One said:Outstanding post SF. The problem with progressives is that they truly believe people can never be taxed too much. There's always another cause to spend money on and oppressed people to give freebies to. And regarding admission to Cal, if you're a caucasian, legal California resident and come from a middle class or upper middle class family, your chances of getting into Cal are not good in spite of your grades, test scores, and activities in high school.SFCityBear said:
We can hope or dream, but it is likely just another shell game, trying to hide the debt long enough to get their own pensions before the dam breaks.
I remember discussing with a fellow UC alum (now a financially secure progressive socialist), the massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration. I said to her that any economic unit, whether it is a single person, a married couple, a self-employed businessman, a partnership, or a corporation, will fail if it continues year after year to spend a lot more money than it generates in income.
Her reply to me was, "Governments are different." I was stunned. In the face of facts, including the collapse of several communist and socialist governments, plus the impending failure of progressive-run Illinois and the failures of cities, like Detroit, Stockton, and San Bernardino, how could anyone believe such a fantasy?
Government includes UC Berkeley, which is a part of the California State Government educational system. The system has been run into the ground, especially over the last 50+ years of progressive leadership and its poor management, poor decisions, and self-serving greed. The State can no longer support a very low cost quality University, as the people who fund the state, the citizens, are being taxed to the limit. UC Berkeley now is forced to depend more and more on private contributions, landing research grants, higher and higher fees for students, including the implementation of tuition around 1970.
The University was founded to provide free education to the students of the State. Some students came from out of state, and they were charged a tuition from 1921 onwards. Those tuition fees also increased greatly over time. And since the University could charge higher fees of out of state and foreign students, they began to admit more and more of them, to the exclusion of many students who were citizens of the state, which subverted the original intent of establishing a public university in the first place. Another progressive program to admit undocumented applicants puts a little more pressure on citizen students, as there are now fewer and fewer slots available for them. There are only so many slots. My high school class of 300 sent 100 of us to Cal in 1959. I am still close to many of those classmates, and none of their children or grandchildren has been admitted to study at Cal.
The problem is that you can only get so much money out of taxpayers, and so much money out of students, and so much money from private contributions, before the bubble bursts. The University needs to reign in its well-intentioned but unaffordable management decisions and expenditures. The obvious start would be the salaries and pensions, but even the obvious low-hanging fruit will be painful to take away from those who expect it. But why should government employees get higher salaries and gold-plated pensions and benefits, when private industry workers do not get such largesse?
No. Not at all.bearchamp said:
Anyone else see some irony in a post by "Golden One"?
I disagree. Only the portion associated with the retrofit should be moved. It was the piece the Regents authorized. Nobody compelled the AD to build a lavish athletic center. Therefore, the AD should pay for it.Golden One said:
They should move all the debt for the rebuild off the Athletic Department's books.
Do you believe that African Americans and Hispanics are inferior?
Typical Librull, always lookin for a handout or a bailout.Golden One said:
They should move all the debt for the rebuild off the Athletic Department's books.
Cities cant print money. Greece could not print money. California cant print money. The federal deficit can be reduced by increasing inflation.SFCityBear said:
We can hope or dream, but it is likely just another shell game, trying to hide the debt long enough to get their own pensions before the dam breaks.
I remember discussing with a fellow UC alum (now a financially secure progressive socialist), the massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration. I said to her that any economic unit, whether it is a single person, a married couple, a self-employed businessman, a partnership, or a corporation, will fail if it continues year after year to spend a lot more money than it generates in income.
Her reply to me was, "Governments are different." I was stunned. In the face of facts, including the collapse of several communist and socialist governments, plus the impending failure of progressive-run Illinois and the failures of cities, like Detroit, Stockton, and San Bernardino, how could anyone believe such a fantasy?
Government includes UC Berkeley, which is a part of the California State Government educational system. The system has been run into the ground, especially over the last 50+ years of progressive leadership and its poor management, poor decisions, and self-serving greed. The State can no longer support a very low cost quality University, as the people who fund the state, the citizens, are being taxed to the limit. UC Berkeley now is forced to depend more and more on private contributions, landing research grants, higher and higher fees for students, including the implementation of tuition around 1970.
The University was founded to provide free education to the students of the State. Some students came from out of state, and they were charged a tuition from 1921 onwards. Those tuition fees also increased greatly over time. And since the University could charge higher fees of out of state and foreign students, they began to admit more and more of them, to the exclusion of many students who were citizens of the state, which subverted the original intent of establishing a public university in the first place. Another progressive program to admit undocumented applicants puts a little more pressure on citizen students, as there are now fewer and fewer slots available for them. There are only so many slots. My high school class of 300 sent 100 of us to Cal in 1959. I am still close to many of those classmates, and none of their children or grandchildren has been admitted to study at Cal.
The problem is that you can only get so much money out of taxpayers, and so much money out of students, and so much money from private contributions, before the bubble bursts. The University needs to reign in its well-intentioned but unaffordable management decisions and expenditures. The obvious start would be the salaries and pensions, but even the obvious low-hanging fruit will be painful to take away from those who expect it. But why should government employees get higher salaries and gold-plated pensions and benefits, when private industry workers do not get such largesse?
Federal debt IS different.
That is not to say you cant screw that up like Zimbabwe, Argentina etc. You can. But the fact that they screwed it up so badly is evidence that it is different.
It is really a shame this thread went political.
I had not seen this before on BI so it was welcome news to me.
Rather than characterize it as a shell game and blame liberals, I am happy to see a Chancellor taking concrete steps which seem to reverse the overarching approach to ICA at Cal. That is a great thing. On top of that, IA gets tangible financial relief, which is also a great thing. You don't have to be conservative, liberal or independent to see this.
I had not seen this before on BI so it was welcome news to me.
Rather than characterize it as a shell game and blame liberals, I am happy to see a Chancellor taking concrete steps which seem to reverse the overarching approach to ICA at Cal. That is a great thing. On top of that, IA gets tangible financial relief, which is also a great thing. You don't have to be conservative, liberal or independent to see this.
Maybe not so outstanding...Golden One said:Outstanding post SF. The problem with progressives is that they truly believe people can never be taxed too much. There's always another cause to spend money on and oppressed people to give freebies to. And regarding admission to Cal, if you're a caucasian, legal California resident and come from a middle class or upper middle class family, your chances of getting into Cal are not good in spite of your grades, test scores, and activities in high school.SFCityBear said:
We can hope or dream, but it is likely just another shell game, trying to hide the debt long enough to get their own pensions before the dam breaks.
I remember discussing with a fellow UC alum (now a financially secure progressive socialist), the massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration. I said to her that any economic unit, whether it is a single person, a married couple, a self-employed businessman, a partnership, or a corporation, will fail if it continues year after year to spend a lot more money than it generates in income.
Her reply to me was, "Governments are different." I was stunned. In the face of facts, including the collapse of several communist and socialist governments, plus the impending failure of progressive-run Illinois and the failures of cities, like Detroit, Stockton, and San Bernardino, how could anyone believe such a fantasy?
Government includes UC Berkeley, which is a part of the California State Government educational system. The system has been run into the ground, especially over the last 50+ years of progressive leadership and its poor management, poor decisions, and self-serving greed. The State can no longer support a very low cost quality University, as the people who fund the state, the citizens, are being taxed to the limit. UC Berkeley now is forced to depend more and more on private contributions, landing research grants, higher and higher fees for students, including the implementation of tuition around 1970.
The University was founded to provide free education to the students of the State. Some students came from out of state, and they were charged a tuition from 1921 onwards. Those tuition fees also increased greatly over time. And since the University could charge higher fees of out of state and foreign students, they began to admit more and more of them, to the exclusion of many students who were citizens of the state, which subverted the original intent of establishing a public university in the first place. Another progressive program to admit undocumented applicants puts a little more pressure on citizen students, as there are now fewer and fewer slots available for them. There are only so many slots. My high school class of 300 sent 100 of us to Cal in 1959. I am still close to many of those classmates, and none of their children or grandchildren has been admitted to study at Cal.
The problem is that you can only get so much money out of taxpayers, and so much money out of students, and so much money from private contributions, before the bubble bursts. The University needs to reign in its well-intentioned but unaffordable management decisions and expenditures. The obvious start would be the salaries and pensions, but even the obvious low-hanging fruit will be painful to take away from those who expect it. But why should government employees get higher salaries and gold-plated pensions and benefits, when private industry workers do not get such largesse?
"... massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration..."
So, raise your hand if, in 2009, you were in favor of letting the banking industry and the auto industry fail.
Meanwhile, five years before Obama became President, George W Bush was fighting a costly, unnecessary war and cutting taxes. Recent American history tends to disprove the "Republicans as fiscally responsible deficit hawks" theory. Let's not try and rewrite it.
What is your argument here? That qualified applicants are being denied? Of course they are. So what? Plenty of people who are Cal qualified will always be denied. White students still make up 2nd largest demo on campus. Which makes sense since we're a school full of mostly Californians and in CA white high school students are the 2nd highest achieving demo.Golden One said:I'm not at all bemoaning the number of Asians at Cal. And the percentage of African American, Hispanic, and Native Americans in the population has nothing necessarily to do with the numbers of those groups enrolled at Cal. The relevant metric is the percentage of those ethnicities who have the qualifications to get into Cal compared to the percentage of them actually enrolled.UrsaMajor said:Actually, Cal has very few "underrepresented minorities." If you're bemoaning the number of Asians at Cal, I guess that's your prerogative; however, the number of African American, Hispanic, and Native American students is way less than their percentage in the population.Golden One said:Outstanding post SF. The problem with progressives is that they truly believe people can never be taxed too much. There's always another cause to spend money on and oppressed people to give freebies to. And regarding admission to Cal, if you're a caucasian, legal California resident and come from a middle class or upper middle class family, your chances of getting into Cal are not good in spite of your grades, test scores, and activities in high school.SFCityBear said:
We can hope or dream, but it is likely just another shell game, trying to hide the debt long enough to get their own pensions before the dam breaks.
I remember discussing with a fellow UC alum (now a financially secure progressive socialist), the massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration. I said to her that any economic unit, whether it is a single person, a married couple, a self-employed businessman, a partnership, or a corporation, will fail if it continues year after year to spend a lot more money than it generates in income.
Her reply to me was, "Governments are different." I was stunned. In the face of facts, including the collapse of several communist and socialist governments, plus the impending failure of progressive-run Illinois and the failures of cities, like Detroit, Stockton, and San Bernardino, how could anyone believe such a fantasy?
Government includes UC Berkeley, which is a part of the California State Government educational system. The system has been run into the ground, especially over the last 50+ years of progressive leadership and its poor management, poor decisions, and self-serving greed. The State can no longer support a very low cost quality University, as the people who fund the state, the citizens, are being taxed to the limit. UC Berkeley now is forced to depend more and more on private contributions, landing research grants, higher and higher fees for students, including the implementation of tuition around 1970.
The University was founded to provide free education to the students of the State. Some students came from out of state, and they were charged a tuition from 1921 onwards. Those tuition fees also increased greatly over time. And since the University could charge higher fees of out of state and foreign students, they began to admit more and more of them, to the exclusion of many students who were citizens of the state, which subverted the original intent of establishing a public university in the first place. Another progressive program to admit undocumented applicants puts a little more pressure on citizen students, as there are now fewer and fewer slots available for them. There are only so many slots. My high school class of 300 sent 100 of us to Cal in 1959. I am still close to many of those classmates, and none of their children or grandchildren has been admitted to study at Cal.
The problem is that you can only get so much money out of taxpayers, and so much money out of students, and so much money from private contributions, before the bubble bursts. The University needs to reign in its well-intentioned but unaffordable management decisions and expenditures. The obvious start would be the salaries and pensions, but even the obvious low-hanging fruit will be painful to take away from those who expect it. But why should government employees get higher salaries and gold-plated pensions and benefits, when private industry workers do not get such largesse?
tequila4kapp said:
It is really a shame this thread went political.
I had not seen this before on BI so it was welcome news to me.
Rather than characterize it as a shell game and blame liberals, I am happy to see a Chancellor taking concrete steps which seem to reverse the overarching approach to ICA at Cal. That is a great thing. On top of that, IA gets tangible financial relief, which is also a great thing. You don't have to be conservative, liberal or independent to see this.
You're on a roll. Second post of yours today that I've given a star to.
Hell no! Don't know how you could have inferred such a ridiculous conclusion from my post, unless you wanted to read that into it.UrsaMajor said:
Do you believe that African Americans and Hispanics are inferior?
LOL! Nice try.Big C said:Maybe not so outstanding...Golden One said:Outstanding post SF. The problem with progressives is that they truly believe people can never be taxed too much. There's always another cause to spend money on and oppressed people to give freebies to. And regarding admission to Cal, if you're a caucasian, legal California resident and come from a middle class or upper middle class family, your chances of getting into Cal are not good in spite of your grades, test scores, and activities in high school.SFCityBear said:
We can hope or dream, but it is likely just another shell game, trying to hide the debt long enough to get their own pensions before the dam breaks.
I remember discussing with a fellow UC alum (now a financially secure progressive socialist), the massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration. I said to her that any economic unit, whether it is a single person, a married couple, a self-employed businessman, a partnership, or a corporation, will fail if it continues year after year to spend a lot more money than it generates in income.
Her reply to me was, "Governments are different." I was stunned. In the face of facts, including the collapse of several communist and socialist governments, plus the impending failure of progressive-run Illinois and the failures of cities, like Detroit, Stockton, and San Bernardino, how could anyone believe such a fantasy?
Government includes UC Berkeley, which is a part of the California State Government educational system. The system has been run into the ground, especially over the last 50+ years of progressive leadership and its poor management, poor decisions, and self-serving greed. The State can no longer support a very low cost quality University, as the people who fund the state, the citizens, are being taxed to the limit. UC Berkeley now is forced to depend more and more on private contributions, landing research grants, higher and higher fees for students, including the implementation of tuition around 1970.
The University was founded to provide free education to the students of the State. Some students came from out of state, and they were charged a tuition from 1921 onwards. Those tuition fees also increased greatly over time. And since the University could charge higher fees of out of state and foreign students, they began to admit more and more of them, to the exclusion of many students who were citizens of the state, which subverted the original intent of establishing a public university in the first place. Another progressive program to admit undocumented applicants puts a little more pressure on citizen students, as there are now fewer and fewer slots available for them. There are only so many slots. My high school class of 300 sent 100 of us to Cal in 1959. I am still close to many of those classmates, and none of their children or grandchildren has been admitted to study at Cal.
The problem is that you can only get so much money out of taxpayers, and so much money out of students, and so much money from private contributions, before the bubble bursts. The University needs to reign in its well-intentioned but unaffordable management decisions and expenditures. The obvious start would be the salaries and pensions, but even the obvious low-hanging fruit will be painful to take away from those who expect it. But why should government employees get higher salaries and gold-plated pensions and benefits, when private industry workers do not get such largesse?
"... massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration..."
So, raise your hand if, in 2009, you were in favor of letting the banking industry and the auto industry fail.
Meanwhile, five years before Obama became President, George W Bush was fighting a costly, unnecessary war and cutting taxes. Recent American history tends to disprove the "Republicans as fiscally responsible deficit hawks" theory. Let's not try and rewrite it.
It's not a handout, since the university owns the facilities in question, not the Athletic Department.GMP said:Typical Librull, always lookin for a handout or a bailout.Golden One said:
They should move all the debt for the rebuild off the Athletic Department's books.
The current tax plan confirms once and for all that Republicans are not interested in reducing debt. That puts them in the same league as the Dems. In fact, I think the number of politicians who truly believe in debt reduction can be counted on one hand.Big C said:Maybe not so outstanding...Golden One said:Outstanding post SF. The problem with progressives is that they truly believe people can never be taxed too much. There's always another cause to spend money on and oppressed people to give freebies to. And regarding admission to Cal, if you're a caucasian, legal California resident and come from a middle class or upper middle class family, your chances of getting into Cal are not good in spite of your grades, test scores, and activities in high school.SFCityBear said:
We can hope or dream, but it is likely just another shell game, trying to hide the debt long enough to get their own pensions before the dam breaks.
I remember discussing with a fellow UC alum (now a financially secure progressive socialist), the massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration. I said to her that any economic unit, whether it is a single person, a married couple, a self-employed businessman, a partnership, or a corporation, will fail if it continues year after year to spend a lot more money than it generates in income.
Her reply to me was, "Governments are different." I was stunned. In the face of facts, including the collapse of several communist and socialist governments, plus the impending failure of progressive-run Illinois and the failures of cities, like Detroit, Stockton, and San Bernardino, how could anyone believe such a fantasy?
Government includes UC Berkeley, which is a part of the California State Government educational system. The system has been run into the ground, especially over the last 50+ years of progressive leadership and its poor management, poor decisions, and self-serving greed. The State can no longer support a very low cost quality University, as the people who fund the state, the citizens, are being taxed to the limit. UC Berkeley now is forced to depend more and more on private contributions, landing research grants, higher and higher fees for students, including the implementation of tuition around 1970.
The University was founded to provide free education to the students of the State. Some students came from out of state, and they were charged a tuition from 1921 onwards. Those tuition fees also increased greatly over time. And since the University could charge higher fees of out of state and foreign students, they began to admit more and more of them, to the exclusion of many students who were citizens of the state, which subverted the original intent of establishing a public university in the first place. Another progressive program to admit undocumented applicants puts a little more pressure on citizen students, as there are now fewer and fewer slots available for them. There are only so many slots. My high school class of 300 sent 100 of us to Cal in 1959. I am still close to many of those classmates, and none of their children or grandchildren has been admitted to study at Cal.
The problem is that you can only get so much money out of taxpayers, and so much money out of students, and so much money from private contributions, before the bubble bursts. The University needs to reign in its well-intentioned but unaffordable management decisions and expenditures. The obvious start would be the salaries and pensions, but even the obvious low-hanging fruit will be painful to take away from those who expect it. But why should government employees get higher salaries and gold-plated pensions and benefits, when private industry workers do not get such largesse?
"... massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration..."
So, raise your hand if, in 2009, you were in favor of letting the banking industry and the auto industry fail.
Meanwhile, five years before Obama became President, George W Bush was fighting a costly, unnecessary war and cutting taxes. Recent American history tends to disprove the "Republicans as fiscally responsible deficit hawks" theory. Let's not try and rewrite it.
Athletics are an extracurricular activity that generates its own source of revenue. Therefore, they should live within the scope of that funding. I completely agree with the approach that the Chancellor is taking. Take responsibility for your actions and balance the damn budget by 2020. (and pay for the luxury that you have chosen to build)....Golden One said:It's not a handout, since the university owns the facilities in question, not the Athletic Department.GMP said:Typical Librull, always lookin for a handout or a bailout.Golden One said:
They should move all the debt for the rebuild off the Athletic Department's books.
Golden One, I'm glad I could make you laugh out loud! I noticed you weren't posting here for 6 mos. or so and I'm glad you're back. We may not be exactly 100% aligned on politics, but you're a great guy and a great Cal fan. Go Bears!Golden One said:LOL! Nice try.Big C said:Maybe not so outstanding...Golden One said:Outstanding post SF. The problem with progressives is that they truly believe people can never be taxed too much. There's always another cause to spend money on and oppressed people to give freebies to. And regarding admission to Cal, if you're a caucasian, legal California resident and come from a middle class or upper middle class family, your chances of getting into Cal are not good in spite of your grades, test scores, and activities in high school.SFCityBear said:
We can hope or dream, but it is likely just another shell game, trying to hide the debt long enough to get their own pensions before the dam breaks.
I remember discussing with a fellow UC alum (now a financially secure progressive socialist), the massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration. I said to her that any economic unit, whether it is a single person, a married couple, a self-employed businessman, a partnership, or a corporation, will fail if it continues year after year to spend a lot more money than it generates in income.
Her reply to me was, "Governments are different." I was stunned. In the face of facts, including the collapse of several communist and socialist governments, plus the impending failure of progressive-run Illinois and the failures of cities, like Detroit, Stockton, and San Bernardino, how could anyone believe such a fantasy?
Government includes UC Berkeley, which is a part of the California State Government educational system. The system has been run into the ground, especially over the last 50+ years of progressive leadership and its poor management, poor decisions, and self-serving greed. The State can no longer support a very low cost quality University, as the people who fund the state, the citizens, are being taxed to the limit. UC Berkeley now is forced to depend more and more on private contributions, landing research grants, higher and higher fees for students, including the implementation of tuition around 1970.
The University was founded to provide free education to the students of the State. Some students came from out of state, and they were charged a tuition from 1921 onwards. Those tuition fees also increased greatly over time. And since the University could charge higher fees of out of state and foreign students, they began to admit more and more of them, to the exclusion of many students who were citizens of the state, which subverted the original intent of establishing a public university in the first place. Another progressive program to admit undocumented applicants puts a little more pressure on citizen students, as there are now fewer and fewer slots available for them. There are only so many slots. My high school class of 300 sent 100 of us to Cal in 1959. I am still close to many of those classmates, and none of their children or grandchildren has been admitted to study at Cal.
The problem is that you can only get so much money out of taxpayers, and so much money out of students, and so much money from private contributions, before the bubble bursts. The University needs to reign in its well-intentioned but unaffordable management decisions and expenditures. The obvious start would be the salaries and pensions, but even the obvious low-hanging fruit will be painful to take away from those who expect it. But why should government employees get higher salaries and gold-plated pensions and benefits, when private industry workers do not get such largesse?
"... massive increase in the national debt that was taking place during the Obama administration..."
So, raise your hand if, in 2009, you were in favor of letting the banking industry and the auto industry fail.
Meanwhile, five years before Obama became President, George W Bush was fighting a costly, unnecessary war and cutting taxes. Recent American history tends to disprove the "Republicans as fiscally responsible deficit hawks" theory. Let's not try and rewrite it.
Thank you Big C. You're a pretty good guy yourself! We're Cal Bears, so politics be damned!Big C said:
Golden One, I'm glad I could make you laugh out loud! I noticed you weren't posting here for 6 mos. or so and I'm glad you're back. We may not be exactly 100% aligned on politics, but you're a great guy and a great Cal fan. Go Bears!
Correct. The argument for keeping part of the debt on IA's books (other than the fact that it wouldn't be politically possible to move all of it) is that the SAHPC was done specifically for the department and not for seismic reasons. Of course, as has been pointed out, English doesn't pay for Wheeler, or Psychology for the new building on Berkeley Way. Nonetheless, this was the rationale for moving 54% of the debt to the campus' books.Golden One said:It's not a handout, since the university owns the facilities in question, not the Athletic Department.GMP said:Typical Librull, always lookin for a handout or a bailout.Golden One said:
They should move all the debt for the rebuild off the Athletic Department's books.
One final point: the campus doesn't own the stadium...nor any facility. It is owned by the Regents. It may seem like a minor difference, but it's actually significant in terms of who has decision making power.
I would agree with that if they weren't confined to regulations in terms of adding and subtracting sports from that budgt.
You're correct, of course.UrsaMajor said:
One final point: the campus doesn't own the stadium...nor any facility. It is owned by the Regents. It may seem like a minor difference, but it's actually significant in terms of who has decision making power.
Edwards slated for destruction moves up a notch. As a track alumni, this is terrible news.
Cal soccer, Cal track/cross country (and to a lesser extent the Cal Triathlon Club) feature arguably the most diverse teams on campus, and all rely on this facility. Cal T&F and XC commit to an extraordinary amount of volunteer work, and have the highest collective GPAs of any sport. This is a sport that allows student-athletes from lower income families a shot to obtain a scholarship or a spot at attending UC Berkeley.
Football messed up by incurring a $450 million debt. Cal has been doing it wrong for a long time.
Here is the link to today's dismal Daily Cal article and it does not appear that the chancellor gives much of a flip about track/soccer or football for that matter: http://www.dailycal.org/2017/11/02/uc-berkeley-chancellor-proposes-assuming-portion-cal-athletics-debt-exchange-developing-edwards-stadium/
So we have to build on something? How about we bite the bullet, face the local fall-out and take People's Park back from the heroin addicts. That's a nice chunk of free space right there.
Cal soccer, Cal track/cross country (and to a lesser extent the Cal Triathlon Club) feature arguably the most diverse teams on campus, and all rely on this facility. Cal T&F and XC commit to an extraordinary amount of volunteer work, and have the highest collective GPAs of any sport. This is a sport that allows student-athletes from lower income families a shot to obtain a scholarship or a spot at attending UC Berkeley.
Football messed up by incurring a $450 million debt. Cal has been doing it wrong for a long time.
Here is the link to today's dismal Daily Cal article and it does not appear that the chancellor gives much of a flip about track/soccer or football for that matter: http://www.dailycal.org/2017/11/02/uc-berkeley-chancellor-proposes-assuming-portion-cal-athletics-debt-exchange-developing-edwards-stadium/
So we have to build on something? How about we bite the bullet, face the local fall-out and take People's Park back from the heroin addicts. That's a nice chunk of free space right there.
Amen! That should have been done a long time ago. But given where we are, there's no better time than now. A move like that would show that the university administration has some guts.Cal Junkie said:
So we have to build on something? How about we bite the bullet, face the local fall-out and take People's Park back from the heroin addicts. That's a nice chunk of free space right there.
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