https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/09/25/neighbors-rally-against-planned-beach-volleyball-courts-on-uc-berkeleys-clark-kerr-campus

Apparently there was a 50 year agreement to not expand CKC or host 'major' sporting events on the site.

Not sure I'd consider sand volleyball a major event, so we'll see if this progresses.

Either way, this agreement also might limit what Cal can do in regard to building a track / soccer facility at Clark Kerr Campus if Edwards is reappropriated.

This is bull. Same NIMBY obstructionist crap from the affluent subset of the community. A state institution is trying to address the needs of an under-served group of students.

Keep in mind this is about renovating or improving on decrepit/old buildings. From what I understand, it is not expanding the footprint of the existing field.

How do they define 'major' sporting event? Any intercollegiate event? Ridiculous.

They're going to fail. Also, pretty sure this covenant has an expiration date. The university will develop the campus after that date. Careful.

socaliganbear said:

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They're going to fail. Also, pretty sure this covenant has an expiration date. The university will develop the campus after that date. Careful.

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1982 + 50 years = 2032. High rise dorms going in?

Are those agreements still legal given 50 years ago it was the California School for the Deaf before CKC. My guess is the neighbors are wasting their money but might get some compromises.

What a bunch of litigious aholes. Always amazed me that people would move adjacent to a large university and then spent the rest of their time complaining about it.

Another Bear said:

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Are those agreements still legal given 50 years ago it was the California School for the Deaf before CKC. My guess is the neighbors are wasting their money but might get some compromises.

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According to that article, the agreement was with UC upon the transfer of the land to UC in 1982.

Hope UC doesn't agree to concessions like they did with CMS/PHA when they had basically won on every count but wanted to avoid more litigation.

NYCGOBEARS said:

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What a bunch of litigious aholes. Always amazed me that people would move adjacent to a large university and then spent the rest of their time complaining about it.

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...or farmland or airports or factories or freeways or...

I just really, really hope our new administration doesn't find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like our prior admin did in dealing with these NIMBY idiots. What we gave to the Hill People (after we had beaten them) still pisses me off. The minitron, the inability to basically host any events other than football 6-7 days a year at CMS, the practice limitations - these were all things given after we got CMS designated as a historical landmark (and therefore exempt from Alquist-Priolo). We had won. They had no leg to stand on and Sandy gave away the farm to "put all of this behind us." I talked about this with her until I was blue in the face all to no avail. The Hill People had no funding, no legal case and significant personal exposure and yet we gave them pretty much their entire wish list.

I really, really hope that Christ and Knowlton make an example out of these NIMBY's so the Berkeley denizens will think twice before bringing more suits like this. If beach Volleyball with 50 or so spectators is a "major sporting event" then I'm a Stanford fan.

I should have read the article. Thanks.

Any way, 2032 isn't that far away. In long term institutional planning, 14 years isn't long. I did some minor design work for the new UC president's office addition in Oakland, 10 years ago. They just broke ground this year.

I'm sure these same folks would blow whistles and scream bloody murder in support of gender "equity" in college athletics and Title IX compliance, if only that cause was being advanced on another campus far, far, far away. Ah, the good people of Berkeley.

Two words for them: eminent domain.

jesus christ, the people of berkeley are as bad as the maga fools. these are the same idiots that have caused Berkeley PD officers to resign in mass and then want help when one of the people's park vagrants assaults them.

i really do hope high rise towers go in at some point, with massive parking garages.

Meh...this isn't hippie flop sweat, MAGA or this or that, this is about property values and fear those will change...same as any affluent area. The thing is, the university was there first and it adds more value to the area than not.

Another Bear said:

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Meh...this isn't hippie flop sweat, MAGA or this or that, this is about property values and fear those will change...same as any affluent area. The thing is, the university was there first and it adds more value to the area than not.

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NIMBYs are extremely well represented on either side of the isle. From San Diego and Newport Beach to the Berkeley Hills and Marin. What they have in common is sky high CA real estate value. The only color there is green.

Sebastabear said:

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I really, really hope that Christ and Knowlton make an example out of these NIMBY's so the Berkeley denizens will think twice before bringing more suits like this. If beach Volleyball with 50 or so spectators is a "major sporting event" then I'm a Stanford fan.

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LOLOLOL

Sebastabear said:

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I just really, really hope our new administration doesn't find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like our prior admin did in dealing with these NIMBY idiots. What we gave to the Hill People (after we had beaten them) still pisses me off. The minitron, the inability to basically host any events other than football 6-7 days a year at CMS, the practice limitations - these were all things given after we got CMS designated as a historical landmark (and therefore exempt from Alquist-Priolo). We had won. They had no leg to stand on and Sandy gave away the farm to "put all of this behind us." I talked about this with her until I was blue in the face all to no avail. The Hill People had no funding, no legal case and significant personal exposure and yet we gave them pretty much their entire wish list.

I really, really hope that Christ and Knowlton make an example out of these NIMBY's so the Berkeley denizens will think twice before bringing more suits like this. If beach Volleyball with 50 or so spectators is a "major sporting event" then I'm a Stanford fan.

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Not that anyone of should have to do this, but I hope you've expressed as much to the new Chancellor.

Cal should double down and start building high rise student housing at Clark Kerr.

The highrises on CKC appears to be an inevitability under the Christ admin. If it hasn't already, the planning will probably begin within the next 4 years. How much could the surrounding property values suffer? Will the area turn into a ghetto of the highrises are built? If so, sell now!

Sebastabear said:

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I just really, really hope our new administration doesn't find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like our prior admin did in dealing with these NIMBY idiots. What we gave to the Hill People (after we had beaten them) still pisses me off. The minitron, the inability to basically host any events other than football 6-7 days a year at CMS, the practice limitations - these were all things given after we got CMS designated as a historical landmark (and therefore exempt from Alquist-Priolo). We had won. They had no leg to stand on and Sandy gave away the farm to "put all of this behind us." I talked about this with her until I was blue in the face all to no avail. The Hill People had no funding, no legal case and significant personal exposure and yet we gave them pretty much their entire wish list.

I really, really hope that Christ and Knowlton make an example out of these NIMBY's so the Berkeley denizens will think twice before bringing more suits like this. If beach Volleyball with 50 or so spectators is a "major sporting event" then I'm a Stanford fan.

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While I agree 100%, Sebastabear. I do want to point out that it wasn't Sandy's call on not fighting the Hill people, but higher ups in the administration. If she was telling you otherwise, she was being a "good soldier." Brostrom (who gave us ESP's) and Birgeneau get that prize.

Fyght4Cal said:

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The highrises on CKC appears to be an inevitability under the Christ admin. If it hasn't already, the planning will probably begin within the next 4 years. How much could the surrounding property values suffer? Will the area turn into a ghetto of the highrises are built? If so, sell now!

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Doesn't seem to affect Westwood and neighboring real estate. It's the Bay Area, it will do just fine.

This is when I wish Donald Trump was president of Cal. He'd not only rebuild the sand volleyball pits but he'd put a casino and hotel right next door to the litigants.

CKC has a large enough footprint for some high rises but certainly there's enough space for medium rise buildings like 6-8 stories. You know, back them up against the hills, put lots of trees around them.

UrsaMajor said:

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Sebastabear said:

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I just really, really hope our new administration doesn't find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like our prior admin did in dealing with these NIMBY idiots. What we gave to the Hill People (after we had beaten them) still pisses me off. The minitron, the inability to basically host any events other than football 6-7 days a year at CMS, the practice limitations - these were all things given after we got CMS designated as a historical landmark (and therefore exempt from Alquist-Priolo). We had won. They had no leg to stand on and Sandy gave away the farm to "put all of this behind us." I talked about this with her until I was blue in the face all to no avail. The Hill People had no funding, no legal case and significant personal exposure and yet we gave them pretty much their entire wish list.

I really, really hope that Christ and Knowlton make an example out of these NIMBY's so the Berkeley denizens will think twice before bringing more suits like this. If beach Volleyball with 50 or so spectators is a "major sporting event" then I'm a Stanford fan.

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While I agree 100%, Sebastabear. I do want to point out that it wasn't Sandy's call on not fighting the Hill people, but higher ups in the administration. If she was telling you otherwise, she was being a "good soldier." Brostrom (who gave us ESP's) and Birgeneau get that prize.

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Yeah I get all that. She was stating the administration's position and trying to put the best face on it, but it was obviously dumb at the time and looks even dumber today.

82gradDLSdad said:

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This is when I wish Donald Trump was president of Cal. He'd not only rebuild the sand volleyball pits but he'd put a casino and hotel right next door to the litigants.

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.

Might be cool for a moment, until we rebranded as "Trump University" fired all the faculty, dropped 1,000 places in the world university rankings and the university and casino all went bancrupt while paying off the lawsuits filed by the members of the beach volleyball team....

ColoradoBear said:

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https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/09/25/neighbors-rally-against-planned-beach-volleyball-courts-on-uc-berkeleys-clark-kerr-campus

Apparently there was a 50 year agreement to not expand CKC or host 'major' sporting events on the site.

Not sure I'd consider sand volleyball a major event, so we'll see if this progresses.

Either way, this agreement also might limit what Cal can do in regard to building a track / soccer facility at Clark Kerr Campus if Edwards is reappropriated.

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The neighbors are being short sighted. The agreement is up in 14 years. However, if we build a beach volleyball facility, that will probably be the use for another 50 years at least. That would preclude developments that they would find far more objectionable.

Maybe they are bluffing and will ultimately agree to the beach volleyball in exchange for university concessions such as extension of the moratorium.

the concept drawing looked like a small nice park area. based on the current location attendance, there is no way anyone could call it a 'major' sporting event

calumnus said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/09/25/neighbors-rally-against-planned-beach-volleyball-courts-on-uc-berkeleys-clark-kerr-campus

Apparently there was a 50 year agreement to not expand CKC or host 'major' sporting events on the site.

Not sure I'd consider sand volleyball a major event, so we'll see if this progresses.

Either way, this agreement also might limit what Cal can do in regard to building a track / soccer facility at Clark Kerr Campus if Edwards is reappropriated.

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The neighbors are being short sighted. The agreement is up in 14 years. However, if we build a beach volleyball facility, that will probably be the use for another 50 years at least. That would preclude developments that they would find far more objectionable.

Maybe they are bluffing and will ultimately agree to the beach volleyball in exchange for university concessions such as extension of the moratorium.

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I think this is a gambit to extend the 50 year term, or at least place restrictions that go beyond that. Hopefully UC does not go down that road.

Those agreements are a mess.

HoopDreams said:

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the concept drawing looked like a small nice park area. based on the current location attendance, there is no way anyone could call it a 'major' sporting event

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Only NBC Sports would think a tape of a women's quarter final match in beach volleyball was worthy of pre-empting a live telecast of the fastest human of all time going for his third gold metal in the 100 meters.

NYCGOBEARS said:

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What a bunch of litigious aholes. Always amazed me that people would move adjacent to a large university and then spent the rest of their time complaining about it.

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Which is exactly like the people who buy a cheap house next to an airport, then embark on a campaign to shut down the "noisy, nuisance airport."

But not quite as laughable as people who choose to buy property on a steep hillside, ON the Hayward Fault, next to a 100 year old stadium on a narrow, curvy, dead-end road with numerous hairpin turns, overgrown with foliage growing up and over 100 year old wood-shingle houses, in an area known for recurring, deadly and unstoppable conflagrations, but then oppose a seismic retrofit program to the stadium that predates their home ownership on "safety" concerns. That's truly a good one!

BearGoggles said:

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calumnus said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/09/25/neighbors-rally-against-planned-beach-volleyball-courts-on-uc-berkeleys-clark-kerr-campus

Apparently there was a 50 year agreement to not expand CKC or host 'major' sporting events on the site.

Not sure I'd consider sand volleyball a major event, so we'll see if this progresses.

Either way, this agreement also might limit what Cal can do in regard to building a track / soccer facility at Clark Kerr Campus if Edwards is reappropriated.

---

The neighbors are being short sighted. The agreement is up in 14 years. However, if we build a beach volleyball facility, that will probably be the use for another 50 years at least. That would preclude developments that they would find far more objectionable.

Maybe they are bluffing and will ultimately agree to the beach volleyball in exchange for university concessions such as extension of the moratorium.

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I think this is a gambit to extend the 50 year term, or at least place restrictions that go beyond that. Hopefully UC does not go down that road.

Those agreements are a mess.

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Yeah, that is my hunch too.

Sebastabear said:

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UrsaMajor said:

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Sebastabear said:

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I just really, really hope our new administration doesn't find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like our prior admin did in dealing with these NIMBY idiots. What we gave to the Hill People (after we had beaten them) still pisses me off. The minitron, the inability to basically host any events other than football 6-7 days a year at CMS, the practice limitations - these were all things given after we got CMS designated as a historical landmark (and therefore exempt from Alquist-Priolo). We had won. They had no leg to stand on and Sandy gave away the farm to "put all of this behind us." I talked about this with her until I was blue in the face all to no avail. The Hill People had no funding, no legal case and significant personal exposure and yet we gave them pretty much their entire wish list.

I really, really hope that Christ and Knowlton make an example out of these NIMBY's so the Berkeley denizens will think twice before bringing more suits like this. If beach Volleyball with 50 or so spectators is a "major sporting event" then I'm a Stanford fan.

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While I agree 100%, Sebastabear. I do want to point out that it wasn't Sandy's call on not fighting the Hill people, but higher ups in the administration. If she was telling you otherwise, she was being a "good soldier." Brostrom (who gave us ESP's) and Birgeneau get that prize.

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Yeah I get all that. She was stating the administration's position and trying to put the best face on it, but it was obviously dumb at the time and looks even dumber today.

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It's hard to believe that it looks even dumber today than it did then, but sadly I agree. How the university survived the string of idiots in charge (the killer B's: Berdahl, Birgeneau, Brostrom, and then Dirks and Williams) is beyond me.