For the same reason, there are relatively fewer men's volleyball teams. My son played on Cal's club team which has won 6 national club championships.TrueBlue42 said:
Title IX makes it impossible for large athletic departments to add D1 men's lacrosse. The men's game requires 15-20 more roster sports than a women's team. For an already out of balance athletic department (due to football), hard to justify another sport where more men are required than women. Lacrosse has been the fastest growing high school sport over the last two decades, and yet the NCAA D1 game has basically been net zero over that same time frame. The big schools stepped in and organized the MCLA, providing a legitimate alternative for kids who are skilled enough to play D1 but don't want to attend one of the handful of schools that offer NCAA status.
I don't think people realize how impressive this latest run from the Cal program has been. This isn't a varsity club team like rugby or crew where the coaches can tag kids for admission. Every kid that plays lacrosse at Cal gains admission on their own. Usually the majority of the kids are engineering majors. They pay to play on the team. Epitome of student athletes.
Quote:
Very difficult to get into NCAA lacrosse for the West Coast teams - you basically have to get voted in by the current teams. So it makes it a difficult situation. You have to bring in essentially an entire conference at a time to expand.
The college admissions scandal has been an eye opener for the role of sports in admissions. This is a much bigger issue at private schools where you find high percentages of the student body admitted because they are tagged for a sports team. Even small schools that play in Division III. I frankly don't get why they would care. Not that I don't think sports can be an important part of college life, but why would a Division III school not recruit from its own student body?TrueBlue42 said:
I don't think people realize how impressive this latest run from the Cal program has been. This isn't a varsity club team like rugby or crew where the coaches can tag kids for admission. Every kid that plays lacrosse at Cal gains admission on their own. Usually the majority of the kids are engineering majors. They pay to play on the team. Epitome of student athletes.
Oski87 said:
One of the top teams in the country year in and out is St Ignatius in San Francisco - they are ranked in the high school ranks right now at #9, and have been #1 a few years off and on. They have been sort of the De La Salle of high school lacrosse. California schools have about 25% of the top 100 high school teams in the country. Marin has a number of very good teams right now, as well as, San Diego, Palos Verde, and lots of quality east bay teams, like De La Salle, San Ramon Valley, Monte Vista, etc. Bay Area is a top national location for youth lacrosse. The other big area is Long Island. Stony Brook is a lacrosse power. for example, which is locate within 10 or 15 miles of 7 or so top 50 lacrosse high schools.
Being a club sport is the recruiting pretty much the same as with other sports with the exception of there being scholarships. Are you invited to play, or can one try out upon gaining admittance to CaL?Bear70 said:
He was on point. That opening run in the second half was deflating. Regardless, great season for Coach Ned and the team. Fun team to watch and easy to cheer for considering the lengths they go to for the chance to play at Cal.
Go Bears!
Was just wondering. I have a grandson who is an excellent student who has the credentials for Cal without needing a preferential admit. He got very tired of the "club world" of lacrosse which is very different than the club situation in soccer. Players shift teams by the weekend and teams stack up for various tournaments with parents have their kids playing on multiple teams. With that goes tons of politics and BS. He is a thinker and just did not like it, but at the same time a standout high school player who plays against the best club players in CCS competition and holds his own.moonpod said:
Not sure how it is now. But once upon a time it was a combo of kids being recruited (but still having to get in) and kids trying out. I THINK that most of the players are actually recruited now
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure there are some preferential admits. Not a lot but like a couple
I could not agree more. It lacks overall organization more than anything else. Like any other sport parents are hoping their child is a super star and gets recognized, but unlike any other sport I have seen, you don't play on one team one weekend and then against your team the next weekend to further your individual aspirations. And the parents could care less no matter how much it costs as long as little Aiden or Isabel prospers.Bear70 said:
Talking to the kids at Cal Lacrosse Camps, sounds like they have to get in like anyone else but are also recruited by the staff based on ability to get admitted and talent. That's part of why I love what Coach Ned is doing up there. Hoping he's firmly planted at Cal as I can see NCAA D1 programs coming for him.
My kids do the club lacrosse thing too and it's shady. They played in a US Lacrosse tournament in Orange County last year. The age level was supposed to be 10 and under but there was no age verification. They played a team with several kids over 6 feet tall. A few of the players told my kids they were 14-16! Crazy.
Despite the odds our boys almost pulled out a win but after one game they were battered and bruised. Turns out the US Lacrosse name on the tournament just allows for insurance and doesn't guarantee a fair playing field.
The sport is exploding and finding good coaches is almost impossible. Once more former players start landing in California and tapping into that talent pool...it's going to be huge.
My understanding - after inquiry - is that Cal Men's lacrosse offers VERY limited admissions assistance. Basically, if two candidates are equal, and one is a "recruited" lacrosse player - then the lacrosse player would probably get admitted. As a club sport, there is no direct or significance admissions requirements. Webster does do some recruiting - but it is mostly oriented to finding players who might be admitted on their own.OdontoBear66 said:I could not agree more. It lacks overall organization more than anything else. Like any other sport parents are hoping their child is a super star and gets recognized, but unlike any other sport I have seen, you don't play on one team one weekend and then against your team the next weekend to further your individual aspirations. And the parents could care less no matter how much it costs as long as little Aiden or Isabel prospers.Bear70 said:
Talking to the kids at Cal Lacrosse Camps, sounds like they have to get in like anyone else but are also recruited by the staff based on ability to get admitted and talent. That's part of why I love what Coach Ned is doing up there. Hoping he's firmly planted at Cal as I can see NCAA D1 programs coming for him.
My kids do the club lacrosse thing too and it's shady. They played in a US Lacrosse tournament in Orange County last year. The age level was supposed to be 10 and under but there was no age verification. They played a team with several kids over 6 feet tall. A few of the players told my kids they were 14-16! Crazy.
Despite the odds our boys almost pulled out a win but after one game they were battered and bruised. Turns out the US Lacrosse name on the tournament just allows for insurance and doesn't guarantee a fair playing field.
The sport is exploding and finding good coaches is almost impossible. Once more former players start landing in California and tapping into that talent pool...it's going to be huge.
Good and informative post BG. And actually no, I live in the OC he plays in NorCal. But the situation you describe is pretty much similar with the exception there are many more good players and teams in SoCal. When I go to a HS soccer game (in the OC) the LAX players are often warming up to use the field after a soccer game. There are 50-100 players at many of the schools down here. I know it is exploding, and especially with the FB concussion issues, but even though there are quality players up north the numbers do not seem as great so the creation of "super teams" is done.BearGoggles said:My understanding - after inquiry - is that Cal Men's lacrosse offers VERY limited admissions assistance. Basically, if two candidates are equal, and one is a "recruited" lacrosse player - then the lacrosse player would probably get admitted. As a club sport, there is no direct or significance admissions requirements. Webster does do some recruiting - but it is mostly oriented to finding players who might be admitted on their own.OdontoBear66 said:I could not agree more. It lacks overall organization more than anything else. Like any other sport parents are hoping their child is a super star and gets recognized, but unlike any other sport I have seen, you don't play on one team one weekend and then against your team the next weekend to further your individual aspirations. And the parents could care less no matter how much it costs as long as little Aiden or Isabel prospers.Bear70 said:
Talking to the kids at Cal Lacrosse Camps, sounds like they have to get in like anyone else but are also recruited by the staff based on ability to get admitted and talent. That's part of why I love what Coach Ned is doing up there. Hoping he's firmly planted at Cal as I can see NCAA D1 programs coming for him.
My kids do the club lacrosse thing too and it's shady. They played in a US Lacrosse tournament in Orange County last year. The age level was supposed to be 10 and under but there was no age verification. They played a team with several kids over 6 feet tall. A few of the players told my kids they were 14-16! Crazy.
Despite the odds our boys almost pulled out a win but after one game they were battered and bruised. Turns out the US Lacrosse name on the tournament just allows for insurance and doesn't guarantee a fair playing field.
The sport is exploding and finding good coaches is almost impossible. Once more former players start landing in California and tapping into that talent pool...it's going to be huge.
This is generally the rule at all MCLA schools, some offer a bit more admissions assistance and some less.
In terms of club lacrosse, not sure if your grandson plays in OC, but if so the "club" teams are largely dominated by a few powerful coaches in OC and north SD. It is very political - the coaches operate the clubs in service of their high schools and vice versa. Coaches don't want their kids playing for the "other guy" and when the elite teams hold tryouts, those same coaches make sure their kids get preference (often they are coaching the elite/travel team).
All of that being said, I think your comparison between club soccer and club boys lacrosse is totally misplaced. OC (really all of California) has a long, well established history of producing ELITE boys and girls soccer players and MANY elite teams/clubs. If you're a good soccer player, there are many clubs you can play for and lots of teams that will help you get recruited. Also, high school teams/coaches don't typically insist soccer players play for their private club. In addition, elite players have no problem being recruited - the strong core of players draw nationwide attention and there are a ton of NCAA colleges that can be attended on the west coast.
Lacrosse in California is very different. The sport is exploding (not just in CA, but also Texas, Oregon, etc.). But there are not clusters of elite players and for many kids, there is not a consistent opportunity to play club tournaments with the same team.
The elite teams are clustered on the east coast for the most part, particularly at prep schools. To compete with those established teams, West Coast players need to create "super teams" (i.e., players bouncing from team to team on weekends) to play in tournament. These teams then travel east and can at least compete reasonably well - the gap is closing.
Also, there are only 2 NCAA Div 1 teams anywhere near CA - Denver and Utah (which just went D-1 last year). So if your a CA kid who wants to play in college (d-1 or otherwise), you absolutely NEED to travel east with an all-star team. This is the reason that players tend to play on multiple teams. Is it a bit mercenary? Perhaps. But girls soccer is equally so - your Aiden or Isabel playing soccer are able to advance their individual aspirations by playing on one team. Boys lacrosse players are not.
A few random comments:
The post above correctly points out that many former East coast players are coming west to plant roots and coach. There is a bit of a coaching shortage - but that is more a case that coaches can't yet make a full time living as a coach. The bigger shortage/deficit is refereeing. There are very few competent west cost referees and at this point, that is holding back the players's development as much as anything. The transplanted east coast coaches will tell you that.
Second point - all of my comments above are directed to boys lacrosse. Different world for girls - I know much less about that world, but the fact that there are womens D-1 programs all along the west coast makes a huge difference.
OdontoBear66 said:Good and informative post BG. And actually no, I live in the OC he plays in NorCal. But the situation you describe is pretty much similar with the exception there are many more good players and teams in SoCal. When I go to a HS soccer game (in the OC) the LAX players are often warming up to use the field after a soccer game. There are 50-100 players at many of the schools down here. I know it is exploding, and especially with the FB concussion issues, but even though there are quality players up north the numbers do not seem as great so the creation of "super teams" is done.BearGoggles said:
My understanding - after inquiry - is that Cal Men's lacrosse offers VERY limited admissions assistance. Basically, if two candidates are equal, and one is a "recruited" lacrosse player - then the lacrosse player would probably get admitted. As a club sport, there is no direct or significance admissions requirements. Webster does do some recruiting - but it is mostly oriented to finding players who might be admitted on their own.
This is generally the rule at all MCLA schools, some offer a bit more admissions assistance and some less.
In terms of club lacrosse, not sure if your grandson plays in OC, but if so the "club" teams are largely dominated by a few powerful coaches in OC and north SD. It is very political - the coaches operate the clubs in service of their high schools and vice versa. Coaches don't want their kids playing for the "other guy" and when the elite teams hold tryouts, those same coaches make sure their kids get preference (often they are coaching the elite/travel team).
All of that being said, I think your comparison between club soccer and club boys lacrosse is totally misplaced. OC (really all of California) has a long, well established history of producing ELITE boys and girls soccer players and MANY elite teams/clubs. If you're a good soccer player, there are many clubs you can play for and lots of teams that will help you get recruited. Also, high school teams/coaches don't typically insist soccer players play for their private club. In addition, elite players have no problem being recruited - the strong core of players draw nationwide attention and there are a ton of NCAA colleges that can be attended on the west coast.
Lacrosse in California is very different. The sport is exploding (not just in CA, but also Texas, Oregon, etc.). But there are not clusters of elite players and for many kids, there is not a consistent opportunity to play club tournaments with the same team.
The elite teams are clustered on the east coast for the most part, particularly at prep schools. To compete with those established teams, West Coast players need to create "super teams" (i.e., players bouncing from team to team on weekends) to play in tournament. These teams then travel east and can at least compete reasonably well - the gap is closing.
Also, there are only 2 NCAA Div 1 teams anywhere near CA - Denver and Utah (which just went D-1 last year). So if your a CA kid who wants to play in college (d-1 or otherwise), you absolutely NEED to travel east with an all-star team. This is the reason that players tend to play on multiple teams. Is it a bit mercenary? Perhaps. But girls soccer is equally so - your Aiden or Isabel playing soccer are able to advance their individual aspirations by playing on one team. Boys lacrosse players are not.
A few random comments:
The post above correctly points out that many former East coast players are coming west to plant roots and coach. There is a bit of a coaching shortage - but that is more a case that coaches can't yet make a full time living as a coach. The bigger shortage/deficit is refereeing. There are very few competent west cost referees and at this point, that is holding back the players's development as much as anything. The transplanted east coast coaches will tell you that.
Second point - all of my comments above are directed to boys lacrosse. Different world for girls - I know much less about that world, but the fact that there are womens D-1 programs all along the west coast makes a huge difference.
My questions, hearing of the success of Cal's LAX team was more in the area of can one try out, or is it recruited. In other words, not using LAX for admission per se, but if one is admitted, can one try out. I know this is almost unheard of in girl's soccer at the college level.
