Utah's new OC Andy Ludwig signed a three year contract totaling $2.5 million. In addition, there are the usual bowl bonuses plus a buyout.

Therein lies a big problem for Cal - if they need to make a change (either because the incumbent moves on involuntarily or voluntarily) on either side of the ball, can they afford to pay a coordinator over $800,000 per year?

Tosh will bring the $ back down after he is fired by Cleveland.

71Bear said:

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Utah's new OC Andy Ludwig signed a three year contract totaling $2.5 million. In addition, there are the usual bowl bonuses plus a buyout.

Therein lies a big problem for Cal - if they need to make a change (either because the incumbent moves on involuntarily or voluntarily) on either side of the ball, can they afford to pay a coordinator over $800,000 per year?

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Did Ludwig turn into a good OC? Or was there another reason he was terrible at Cal?

This actually makes me more optimistic for our game against Utah.

ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

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Yeah, most of us went into the wrong profession.

Is their offense good?

ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

---

DeRuyter will be paid $507,000 this year (plus bonuses).

Ludwig is a close personal friend of Kyle Whittingham. That is the same Kyle Whittingham that has burned through a ton of offensive coordinators, reportedly because he's difficult to work for. Seems to me Utah paid a premium for continuity and hazard pay. Troy Taylor left the OC job for Sacramento State - he must have been desperate to get away.

71bear - I'm going to use the same metric you have (correctly in my view) applied in the past. Look at Andy Ludwig's track record - the guy has bounced around quite a bit. Reminds me of the Cal OL coach several years back (can't remember his name) who was a vagabond and, ultimately, not a good recruiter or coach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ludwig

BearGoggles said:

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Ludwig is a close personal friend of Kyle Whittingham. That is the same Kyle Whittingham that has burned through a ton of offensive coordinators, reportedly because he's difficult to work for. Seems to me Utah paid a premium for continuity and hazard pay. Troy Taylor left the OC job for Sacramento State - he must have been desperate to get away.

71bear - I'm going to use the same metric you have (correctly in my view) applied in the past. Look at Andy Ludwig's track record - the guy has bounced around quite a bit. Reminds me of the Cal OL coach several years back (can't remember his name) who was a vagabond and, ultimately, not a good recruiter or coach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ludwig

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Marshall - the ultimate coaching vagabond...

Yep. Ludwig has bounced around a lot. I agree with you that it would be a surprise to see him succeed at Utah. The point of my post wasn't about Ludwig per se. It was about the spiraling cost of coordinators and whether Cal can realistically compete.

BearGoggles said:

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Reminds me of the Cal OL coach several years back (can't remember his name) who was a vagabond and, ultimately, not a good recruiter or coach.

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My God, what was that guy's name? His resume had disaster written all over it.

Fyght4Cal said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Reminds me of the Cal OL coach several years back (can't remember his name) who was a vagabond and, ultimately, not a good recruiter or coach.

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My God, what was that guy's name? His resume had disaster written all over it.

---

Steve Marshall?

dbklalw said:

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Fyght4Cal said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Reminds me of the Cal OL coach several years back (can't remember his name) who was a vagabond and, ultimately, not a good recruiter or coach.

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My God, what was that guy's name? His resume had disaster written all over it.

---

Steve Marshall?

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Yes, 19 coaching stops in 40 years.

ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

---

We pay below average in one of the most expensive locations in the country. Our administrators have a really tough job.

BearGoggles said:

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Ludwig is a close personal friend of Kyle Whittingham. That is the same Kyle Whittingham that has burned through a ton of offensive coordinators, reportedly because he's difficult to work for. Seems to me Utah paid a premium for continuity and hazard pay. Troy Taylor left the OC job for Sacramento State - he must have been desperate to get away.

71bear - I'm going to use the same metric you have (correctly in my view) applied in the past. Look at Andy Ludwig's track record - the guy has bounced around quite a bit. Reminds me of the Cal OL coach several years back (can't remember his name) who was a vagabond and, ultimately, not a good recruiter or coach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ludwig

---

That is a lot of bucks for a journeyman OC. I think Whitt has created a danger pay premium by going through so many OCs. Coaches might be willing to take less from Wilcox because he provides a better environment.

wifeisafurd said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Ludwig is a close personal friend of Kyle Whittingham. That is the same Kyle Whittingham that has burned through a ton of offensive coordinators, reportedly because he's difficult to work for. Seems to me Utah paid a premium for continuity and hazard pay. Troy Taylor left the OC job for Sacramento State - he must have been desperate to get away.

71bear - I'm going to use the same metric you have (correctly in my view) applied in the past. Look at Andy Ludwig's track record - the guy has bounced around quite a bit. Reminds me of the Cal OL coach several years back (can't remember his name) who was a vagabond and, ultimately, not a good recruiter or coach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ludwig

---

That is a lot of bucks for a journeyman OC. I think Whitt has created a danger pay premium by going through so many OCs. Coaches might be willing to take less from Wilcox because he provides a better environment.

---

Keeping an OC despite two years of poor performance is not necessarily better than going through too many OCs. Not differentiating poor performers from high performers can create a toxic work environment. We should have had more turnover after last year.

I mean, most all coaches are journeymen, and it's not their fault -- the arms race has set off the chain reaction of coaching vacancies and thus the frequency of coaching relocation and the velocity of upward mobility.

We know being fired isn't indicative of coaching chops. I like that Wilcox isn't throwing his coordinator under the bus -- I assume Wilcox knows the offensive talent and QB positions are terrible.

I've long believed if a coordinator is getting a lot of the credit, it's because the coach doesn't have the chops to handle that side of the ball. The HC should hire an DC/OC that he guides and oversees (Wilcox has said he doesn't do that). And if that's the case, fire the HC and promote the coordinator to do both for God sake.

71Bear said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

---

DeRuyter will be paid $507,000 this year (plus bonuses).

---

You are forgetting his retention bonus:

DeRuyter's payment comes near the end of his deal; he'll get a bonus payment of $300,000 if employed through August 1, 2019.

philbert said:

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71Bear said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

---

DeRuyter will be paid $507,000 this year (plus bonuses).

---

You are forgetting his retention bonus:

DeRuyter's payment comes near the end of his deal; he'll get a bonus payment of $300,000 if employed through August 1, 2019.

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I did not forget anything... As noted in my post (PLUS BONUSES). [emphasis added]

71Bear said:

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philbert said:

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71Bear said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

---

DeRuyter will be paid $507,000 this year (plus bonuses).

---

You are forgetting his retention bonus:

DeRuyter's payment comes near the end of his deal; he'll get a bonus payment of $300,000 if employed through August 1, 2019.

---

I did not forget anything... As noted in my post (PLUS BONUSES). [emphasis added]

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Okay, but ColoradoBear was pretty close with his 850K number for TD. Tomato-Tomahto, I suppose.

philbert said:

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71Bear said:

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philbert said:

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71Bear said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

---

DeRuyter will be paid $507,000 this year (plus bonuses).

---

You are forgetting his retention bonus:

DeRuyter's payment comes near the end of his deal; he'll get a bonus payment of $300,000 if employed through August 1, 2019.

---

I did not forget anything... As noted in my post (PLUS BONUSES). [emphasis added]

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Okay, but ColoradoBear was pretty close with his 850K number for TD. Tomato-Tomahto, I suppose.

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Not really... it is more apples and oranges....

Ludwig - Salary = $820,000 plus bonuses
DeRuyter - Salary = $507,000 plus bonuses

That is quite a difference.

Also, the retention bonus due DeRuyter in August 2019 is a one-time payment to be awarded at the beginning of his third season (the last in his current three year contract) rather than an annual payment. This is different from Baldwin's deal that calls for a retention bonus ($80,000) to be paid annually each year of his three year contract. I think the appropriate expression that should be used here is "the devil is in the details".

Bottom line, can Cal afford to pay a coordinator $2.5 million over a three year period? It will take at least that to find a high-quality guy in the future.

Deruyter's salary is too low. Same for most of our defensive assistants. Another 7+ win season, and we're all going to need to up our giving.

I believe the 300K bonus was to makeup for some of the delta when his Fresno St. salary was no longer being collected. Whether Cal can/will pay a good coordinator 800K/year is a legit question, though.

Sirmon did get 750K last year with bonuses, although it'll likely be less this year. That's not too far off and he wasn't even a DC.

calumnus said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

---

Yeah, most of us went into the wrong profession.

---

Disagree.
Would you take a job where
1. your success or failure depends on so many factors that are beyond your control.
2. Every year You are evaluated on a basis of "what have you done for us lately?"
3. Your every important wrong decision is broad cast to the general public
4. Every doofus in the USA with a computer, iPad or iPhone can criticize your every move whether or not they know anything at all about your sport to every other person in the USA with a computer, iPad or iPhone.

philbert said:

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I believe the 300K bonus was to makeup for some of the delta when his Fresno St. salary was no longer being collected. Whether Cal can/will pay a good coordinator 800K/year is a legit question, though.

Sirmon did get 750K last year with bonuses, although it'll likely be less this year. That's not too far off and he wasn't even a DC.

---

I don't think 800k per year would be a problem for Cal if TD were interested in staying (I'm not too sure anyone is confident in that) given that we will pay him that this year. I'm guessing if he showed interest in sticking around, they would structure his contract in a way that he would end up with around that much.

GivemTheAxe said:

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calumnus said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

---

Yeah, most of us went into the wrong profession.

---

Disagree.
Would you take a job where
1. your success or failure depends on so many factors that are beyond your control.
2. Every year You are evaluated on a basis of "what have you done for us lately?"
3. Your every important wrong decision is broad cast to the general public
4. Every doofus in the USA with a computer, iPad or iPhone can criticize your every move whether or not they know anything at all about your sport to every other person in the USA with a computer, iPad or iPhone.

---

I wouldn't want the job. I would much rather be an agent.

GivemTheAxe said:

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calumnus said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

---

Yeah, most of us went into the wrong profession.

---

Disagree.
Would you take a job where
1. your success or failure depends on so many factors that are beyond your control.
2. Every year You are evaluated on a basis of "what have you done for us lately?"
3. Your every important wrong decision is broad cast to the general public
4. Every doofus in the USA with a computer, iPad or iPhone can criticize your every move whether or not they know anything at all about your sport to every other person in the USA with a computer, iPad or iPhone.

---

aren't 1 and 2 true in most jobs? Most employers have some form of performance reviews and are evaluating their employees' performance regularly (formally or informally).

boredom said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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calumnus said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

---

Yeah, most of us went into the wrong profession.

---

Disagree.
Would you take a job where
1. your success or failure depends on so many factors that are beyond your control.
2. Every year You are evaluated on a basis of "what have you done for us lately?"
3. Your every important wrong decision is broad cast to the general public
4. Every doofus in the USA with a computer, iPad or iPhone can criticize your every move whether or not they know anything at all about your sport to every other person in the USA with a computer, iPad or iPhone.

---

aren't 1 and 2 true in most jobs? Most employers have some form of performance reviews and are evaluating their employees' performance regularly (formally or informally).

---

Exactly. Moreover, if repeatedly fired for performance, they are not getting repeatedly rehired, and are making a LOT less than $800,000k (plus bonuses) for repeatedly doing a ****ty job.

calumnus said:

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boredom said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

---

calumnus said:

---

ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

---

Yeah, most of us went into the wrong profession.

---

Disagree.
Would you take a job where
1. your success or failure depends on so many factors that are beyond your control.
2. Every year You are evaluated on a basis of "what have you done for us lately?"
3. Your every important wrong decision is broad cast to the general public
4. Every doofus in the USA with a computer, iPad or iPhone can criticize your every move whether or not they know anything at all about your sport to every other person in the USA with a computer, iPad or iPhone.

---

aren't 1 and 2 true in most jobs? Most employers have some form of performance reviews and are evaluating their employees' performance regularly (formally or informally).

---

Exactly. Moreover, if repeatedly fired for performance, they are not getting repeatedly rehired, and are making a LOT less than $800,000k (plus bonuses) for repeatedly doing a ****ty job.

---

And some guys just keeping moving on to a new job just a step ahead of the bagman (see Ludwig).....

GivemTheAxe said:

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calumnus said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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Lol. $800k isn't even that much for a good OC. (Not saying Ludwig is good...)

Just saw that A&M signed their DC to a 2.1mil yearly deal.

And we pay DeRuyter 850k this year.

---

Yeah, most of us went into the wrong profession.

---

Disagree.
Would you take a job where
1. your success or failure depends on so many factors that are beyond your control.
2. Every year You are evaluated on a basis of "what have you done for us lately?"
3. Your every important wrong decision is broad cast to the general public
4. Every doofus in the USA with a computer, iPad or iPhone can criticize your every move whether or not they know anything at all about your sport to every other person in the USA with a computer, iPad or iPhone.

---

Good lord, look at the salaries though.

It can be tough logistically for a family, but position coaches at P5 schools are getting low-mid 6 figures, coordinators at G5 schools getting low 6 figures.

Bust your ass for 10-15 years as a position coach/coordinator, you could retire if you're smart (but why would you when you can continue to make low six figures at worst no matter where in the country). It's worth the "one season away from being fired".

These guys have no problem getting jobs.

wifeisafurd said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Ludwig is a close personal friend of Kyle Whittingham. That is the same Kyle Whittingham that has burned through a ton of offensive coordinators, reportedly because he's difficult to work for. Seems to me Utah paid a premium for continuity and hazard pay. Troy Taylor left the OC job for Sacramento State - he must have been desperate to get away.

71bear - I'm going to use the same metric you have (correctly in my view) applied in the past. Look at Andy Ludwig's track record - the guy has bounced around quite a bit. Reminds me of the Cal OL coach several years back (can't remember his name) who was a vagabond and, ultimately, not a good recruiter or coach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ludwig

---

That is a lot of bucks for a journeyman OC. I think Whitt has created a danger pay premium by going through so many OCs. Coaches might be willing to take less from Wilcox because he provides a better environment.

---

That was my point. I think Whitt had to ovrepay because no one wants to work with him AND Utah needs a better OC to win title.

BearGoggles said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Ludwig is a close personal friend of Kyle Whittingham. That is the same Kyle Whittingham that has burned through a ton of offensive coordinators, reportedly because he's difficult to work for. Seems to me Utah paid a premium for continuity and hazard pay. Troy Taylor left the OC job for Sacramento State - he must have been desperate to get away.

71bear - I'm going to use the same metric you have (correctly in my view) applied in the past. Look at Andy Ludwig's track record - the guy has bounced around quite a bit. Reminds me of the Cal OL coach several years back (can't remember his name) who was a vagabond and, ultimately, not a good recruiter or coach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ludwig

---

That is a lot of bucks for a journeyman OC. I think Whitt has created a danger pay premium by going through so many OCs. Coaches might be willing to take less from Wilcox because he provides a better environment.

---

That was my point. I think Whitt had to ovrepay because no one wants to work with him AND Utah needs a better OC to win title.

---

For multiple reasons, I sure hope Taylor is better than Ludwig.

socaliganbear said:

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philbert said:

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I believe the 300K bonus was to makeup for some of the delta when his Fresno St. salary was no longer being collected. Whether Cal can/will pay a good coordinator 800K/year is a legit question, though.

Sirmon did get 750K last year with bonuses, although it'll likely be less this year. That's not too far off and he wasn't even a DC.

---

I don't think 800k per year would be a problem for Cal if TD were interested in staying (I'm not too sure anyone is confident in that) given that we will pay him that this year. I'm guessing if he showed interest in sticking around, they would structure his contract in a way that he would end up with around that much.

---

I generally agree that 800K for a good coordinator is do-able, if it's the right coordinator. TD would certainly qualify.

I'm more worried about the lower level coaches. Will there be enough money to pay the Ragles and GAs as they move up in stature? (assuming they are willing to stay)

BearGoggles said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Ludwig is a close personal friend of Kyle Whittingham. That is the same Kyle Whittingham that has burned through a ton of offensive coordinators, reportedly because he's difficult to work for. Seems to me Utah paid a premium for continuity and hazard pay. Troy Taylor left the OC job for Sacramento State - he must have been desperate to get away.

71bear - I'm going to use the same metric you have (correctly in my view) applied in the past. Look at Andy Ludwig's track record - the guy has bounced around quite a bit. Reminds me of the Cal OL coach several years back (can't remember his name) who was a vagabond and, ultimately, not a good recruiter or coach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ludwig

---

That is a lot of bucks for a journeyman OC. I think Whitt has created a danger pay premium by going through so many OCs. Coaches might be willing to take less from Wilcox because he provides a better environment.

---

That was my point. I think Whitt had to ovrepay because no one wants to work with him AND Utah needs a better OC to win title.

---

Interesting that you said "Whitt had to overpay" whereas whenever assistant pay at Cal is discussed people act like the HC has no say and assistant pay comes from some completely separate budget than the HC's salary that only stingy Cal Admins control.

calumnus said:

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BearGoggles said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

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BearGoggles said:

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Ludwig is a close personal friend of Kyle Whittingham. That is the same Kyle Whittingham that has burned through a ton of offensive coordinators, reportedly because he's difficult to work for. Seems to me Utah paid a premium for continuity and hazard pay. Troy Taylor left the OC job for Sacramento State - he must have been desperate to get away.

71bear - I'm going to use the same metric you have (correctly in my view) applied in the past. Look at Andy Ludwig's track record - the guy has bounced around quite a bit. Reminds me of the Cal OL coach several years back (can't remember his name) who was a vagabond and, ultimately, not a good recruiter or coach.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ludwig

---

That is a lot of bucks for a journeyman OC. I think Whitt has created a danger pay premium by going through so many OCs. Coaches might be willing to take less from Wilcox because he provides a better environment.

---

That was my point. I think Whitt had to ovrepay because no one wants to work with him AND Utah needs a better OC to win title.

---

Interesting that you said "Whitt had to overpay" whereas whenever assistant pay at Cal is discussed people act like the HC has no say and assistant pay comes from some completely separate budget than the HC's salary that only stingy Cal Admins control.

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Given that Whittingham does not pay his assistants (their salary is paid by the University), I think it is safe to say that BG was using a figure of speech when saying that "Whitt had to overpay".