OT: Fascinating UCLA article

okaydo
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Interesting....



socaliganbear
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It *is* weird that a coach who might be around a few years can sneak their son or daughter into school but very dedicated alumni can't get additional consideration for their offspring. Not arguing for either, but it's strange to think that a random track coach might have more pull than an alum whose funded academic programs, scholarships etc.
Fyght4Cal
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Maybe this is why world-renown UCLA Womens' Gymnastics coach, Valerie Kondo Fields, retired so abruptly.
🎵There’s the Highland Dutch and the Lowland Dutch
The Rotterdam Dutch and Tim DeRuyter 🎶
calpoly
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socaliganbear said:

It *is* weird that a coach who might be around a few years can sneak their son or daughter into school but very dedicated alumni can't get additional consideration for their offspring. Not arguing for either, but it's strange to think that a random track coach might have more pull than an alum whose funded academic programs, scholarships etc.
Cal State faculty members kids only have to meet the CSU minimum GPA requirement to be admitted to the CSU campus where their parent teaches. Maybe the same is true for UC coaches as well.
okaydo
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All I know is that Tedford's sons were highly qualified to go to Cal.

And that Sonny Dykes' daughters would be highly qualified, too, if he was still our coach in a few years.
BearSD
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socaliganbear said:

It *is* weird that a coach who might be around a few years can sneak their son or daughter into school
A coach, or a chianti drinker who against all common sense seems to be unfireable...



MugsVanSant
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When I was at Cal I was told that the crew coach would recruit by looking over those getting their assembly line physical at Cowell Hospital by a crew participant who was recruited in that manner. When we were at rugby practice we almost always saw crew participants running the bleachers. Therefore I know that they did not fill the roster with experienced participants.
Strykur
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It's one thing for the kids of coaches and administrators to be given admission, versus slots handed out in exchange for kickbacks.
Bear19
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okaydo said:

And that Sonny Dykes' daughters would be highly qualified, too, if he was still our coach in a few years.
Sonny's daughters were cute, and seemed like nice kids, but were they accomplished academically, with the needed extra curricular activities?

Don't forget, having a pronounced Southern accent might weigh against them in the selection process.
Fyght4Cal
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Bear19 said:

okaydo said:

And that Sonny Dykes' daughters would be highly qualified, too, if he was still our coach in a few years.
Sonny's daughters were cute, and seemed like nice kids, but were they accomplished academically, with the needed extra curricular activities?

Don't forget, having a pronounced Southern accent might weigh against them in the selection process.
Not...sure...if...joking
🎵There’s the Highland Dutch and the Lowland Dutch
The Rotterdam Dutch and Tim DeRuyter 🎶
BearNakedLadies
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Bear19 said:

okaydo said:

And that Sonny Dykes' daughters would be highly qualified, too, if he was still our coach in a few years.
Sonny's daughters were cute, and seemed like nice kids, but were they accomplished academically, with the needed extra curricular activities?

Don't forget, having a pronounced Southern accent might weigh against them in the selection process.
Not if they were defensive line sized
Big C
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Bear19 said:

okaydo said:

And that Sonny Dykes' daughters would be highly qualified, too, if he was still our coach in a few years.
Sonny's daughters were cute, and seemed like nice kids, but were they accomplished academically, with the needed extra curricular activities?

Don't forget, having a pronounced Southern accent might weigh against them in the selection process.
Both the 3rd grader and the Kindergartener read at or above grade-level, played soccer AND spent their Spring Break helping orphans build sand castles.
socaliganbear
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Strykur said:

It's one thing for the kids of coaches and administrators to be given admission, versus slots handed out in exchange for kickbacks.


Why is that better tho? Who does it benefit more? If an alum donates tons of money that benefits tons of students, isn't that a far greater good than some random coach or employee getting their kid in? Why do we allow one and not the other?
hoop97
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I'm interpreting kickback as more narrowly defined rather than a large donation used by all. If someone donates a boat load of money to help build a library etc. I'm not overly concerned if their kid gains admittance.

I'm still convinced the entire scandal was brought to light behind the scenes by $C so they could be listed as an "elite" school.
Bear8
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hoop97 said:

I'm interpreting kickback as more narrowly defined rather than a large donation used by all. If someone donates a boat load of money to help build a library etc. I'm not overly concerned if their kid gains admittance.

I'm still convinced the entire scandal was brought to light behind the scenes by $C so they could be listed as an "elite" school.
Where's Bear365 when you need him?
Oski87
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The big issue is about all school employees who have a much higher chance of getting their kids in. From professors to gardeners. There is a preference for those children who are the kids of employees of the university. For Yale, I think the admission rate is something like 50%. So that is a big deal. And I believe that there is some reciprocity - for example, if you work at Yale and you want your kids to go to Harvard, they grant preference as well, and vice-versa.
calpoly
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Oski87 said:

The big issue is about all school employees who have a much higher chance of getting their kids in. From professors to gardeners. There is a preference for those children who are the kids of employees of the university. For Yale, I think the admission rate is something like 50%. So that is a big deal. And I believe that there is some reciprocity - for example, if you work at Yale and you want your kids to go to Harvard, they grant preference as well, and vice-versa.

I would be surprised if a gardener at Yale has the same priority as a faculty member in terms of having their child being accepted as a freshman. At schools like Yale you still have to meet fairly high academic stands to get accepted even as a legacy or child of a faculty/administrator.

My father-in-law was a Prof. at Cal and he had no pull in getting his kids accepted at Cal.

OdontoBear66
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calpoly said:

Oski87 said:

The big issue is about all school employees who have a much higher chance of getting their kids in. From professors to gardeners. There is a preference for those children who are the kids of employees of the university. For Yale, I think the admission rate is something like 50%. So that is a big deal. And I believe that there is some reciprocity - for example, if you work at Yale and you want your kids to go to Harvard, they grant preference as well, and vice-versa.

I would be surprised if a gardener at Yale has the same priority as a faculty member in terms of having their child being accepted as a freshman. At schools like Yale you still have to meet fairly high academic stands to get accepted even as a legacy or child of a faculty




But if the gardeners child and close academically, we have a different story. The pull usually comes with those who have it but don't quite make it for ED or EA.
OaktownBear
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OdontoBear66 said:

calpoly said:

Oski87 said:

The big issue is about all school employees who have a much higher chance of getting their kids in. From professors to gardeners. There is a preference for those children who are the kids of employees of the university. For Yale, I think the admission rate is something like 50%. So that is a big deal. And I believe that there is some reciprocity - for example, if you work at Yale and you want your kids to go to Harvard, they grant preference as well, and vice-versa.

I would be surprised if a gardener at Yale has the same priority as a faculty member in terms of having their child being accepted as a freshman. At schools like Yale you still have to meet fairly high academic stands to get accepted even as a legacy or child of a faculty




But if the gardeners child and close academically, we have a different story. The pull usually comes with those who have it but don't quite make it for ED or EA.
As I read what people say on this issue, it is clear that people don't get the current situation in college admissions. What is "qualified"?

Almost half of all high school grades are A's. And you can bet the average is higher at affluent schools than in poor urban schools. Getting a non-weighted 4.0 does not make one an excellent student. Getting a non-weighted 3.8 is not getting you into an elite college without something else helping you.

Elite schools have enough applicants with 4.0 non weighted GPA's and 34-36 ACT scores to fill their classes several times over. So they have to look at other factors.

So is a 3.8 GPA, 31 ACT, nothing special outside of school, but legacy "unqualified". Probably not. S/he can probably do the coursework. Are they a hell of a lot less qualified than MANY who got rejected? Absolutely.

Anecdotally, I've mentioned a guy I know of who got into an Ivy League school. Had the worst grades in his friend group. Didn't have any honors when most of the group did. Didn't really want to apply or go, but it was Dad's school. Only one of his friends that got in. Frankly embarrassed about it. They all know he was by far the least qualified of them and they give him good natured ribbing about it.

The spots have become so sought after that very few look unqualified. But that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of legacies taking up spots of much more qualified applicants. So, honestly, it bothers me when people say "they don't take unqualified legacies" when the more relevant point is that legacies have an X times better chance at getting in. That is the private schools right to do that, but let's not minimize the impact of their admissions policies.

I would say, though, that I have another issue with private schools. In recent years they have been driving up recruitment among groups they know have no prayer of getting accepted to drive down their acceptance rate for marketing purposes. (You will see that to a large extent elite public universities don't do this because they don't care). These applications are hard and time consuming. Getting kids to apply to Ivy League schools they have no chance at takes away the time and effort they have to write their applications at realistic schools and make those better.

What I would like to see is a requirement that any school that takes government funding write and publish a detailed policy on admissions and follow it. If they want to give a heavy advantage to legacies, put it in writing. 1. It makes them own up to it rather than just saying how they take the best and brightest, and 2. Kids who see that the percentage that get in with their grades and test scores are legacies and will understand what their actual chances are. I would love to see elite private schools put in writing all the factors that are considered, including large scale donations, legacies, and anything else. Honestly, I think if they had to publish all the ways that their admissions policies do not result in the best student body, it would push them to reduce some of the practices they continue just because it is always been that way.

I also have to say that some of these things that people just accept could get you landed in jail if you did it in context of a government bid or job. Frankly, UCLA's AD's kid getting admitted to play a sport she doesn't play, given that it is a public entity, should've been the subject of a criminal investigation.


Fyght4Cal
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Glad to have you back, OTB.
🎵There’s the Highland Dutch and the Lowland Dutch
The Rotterdam Dutch and Tim DeRuyter 🎶
BearSD
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Quote:

I would say, though, that I have another issue with private schools. In recent years they have been driving up recruitment among groups they know have no prayer of getting accepted to drive down their acceptance rate for marketing purposes. (You will see that to a large extent elite public universities don't do this because they don't care). These applications are hard and time consuming. Getting kids to apply to Ivy League schools they have no chance at takes away the time and effort they have to write their applications at realistic schools and make those better.
I can confirm this anecdotally. One of my kids, who is in high school and has very good but not spectacular grades, has received several emails and mailed brochures from private schools "back east" that have acceptance rates of 15% or less. A few of them have contacted her 3 or 4 times. Would be a complete waste of time for her to apply to those schools.
Rushinbear
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BearSD said:

Quote:

I would say, though, that I have another issue with private schools. In recent years they have been driving up recruitment among groups they know have no prayer of getting accepted to drive down their acceptance rate for marketing purposes. (You will see that to a large extent elite public universities don't do this because they don't care). These applications are hard and time consuming. Getting kids to apply to Ivy League schools they have no chance at takes away the time and effort they have to write their applications at realistic schools and make those better.
I can confirm this anecdotally. One of my kids, who is in high school and has very good but not spectacular grades, has received several emails and mailed brochures from private schools "back east" that have acceptance rates of 15% or less. A few of them have contacted her 3 or 4 times. Would be a complete waste of time for her to apply to those schools.

geographic diversity is a real value to many private schools.
OdontoBear66
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Add to this the Jordan Lasley nicety yesterday. Gets in fight with DB at KC Chief camp. Then gets in fight with player helping to break it up. And whoops, then is cut. U C L A...Yup
dajo9
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OdontoBear66 said:

Add to this the Jordan Lasley nicety yesterday. Gets in fight with DB at KC Chief camp. Then gets in fight with player helping to break it up. And whoops, then is cut. U C L A...Yup
Raiders... Yup
An old white dude
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