Good time for a bye, but not sure how much it will help our OL players
Any word on Saffell?
Any word on Saffell?
OL on life support
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Last: 4 yr ago by wifeisafurd
Can anybody give a summary of our beginning-of-season, 1st string OL versus where we ended up last night? Thanks in advance.
During broadcast they said only one starting OL from beginning of season was playing, and that one starter was Saffell
Curhan was the last man standing at the end last night.HoopDreams said:
During broadcast they said only one starting OL from beginning of season was playing, and that one starter was Saffell
Craig, Daltoso, Williams, Saffell and on and on....
Mettauer had an absolute nightmare game last night!
I know that Wilcox is a very data oriented guy, so I hope he does a deep dive on how/why so many OL have been injured over the past two years. It seems that we have had far more than our share of key players hurt. Are we targeting the correct things with our S & C staff? Are we practicing in too risky a manner (I think some of the injuries happened in practice)? Are there some types of equipment (braces) we could utilize to better protect our guys? Or, are we just unlucky? Or, are we recruiting fragile guys with a history of injuries in high school?
There is no problem with S&C. Medical staff and some trainers should be dedicated to FB only but is not. That should change but costs money..IssyBear said:
I know that Wilcox is a very data oriented guy, so I hope he does a deep dive on how/why so many OL have been injured over the past two years. It seems that we have had far more than our share of key players hurt. Are we targeting the correct things with our S & C staff? Are we practicing in too risky a manner (I think some of the injuries happened in practice)? Are there some types of equipment (braces) we could utilize to better protect our guys? Or, are we just unlucky? Or, are we recruiting fragile guys with a history of injuries in high school?
I get a feeling that Saffell was helping keep Mettauer's mind in the game and his injury left the true freshman without his on field mentor. He was trying to hard and it resulted in a lot of penalties.89Bear said:
Mettauer had an absolute nightmare game last night!
On the radio, they reported at the end of halftime that Saffell jogged out of the locker room in full pads. He was seen walking on the sidelines in the second half. Maybe he's back to play against the Beavers.HoopDreams said:
Good time for a bye, but not sure how much it will help our OL players
Any word on Saffell?
There was an inference that Oregon was mimicking our QB calls at the line of scrimmage trying to trick one of our OL into false starts. Mettauer seem to be really angry when he got called. He could have been mad with himself or mad that he was tricked. Thus is the life of a true freshman.mvargus said:I get a feeling that Saffell was helping keep Mettauer's mind in the game and his injury left the true freshman without his on field mentor. He was trying to hard and it resulted in a lot of penalties.89Bear said:
Mettauer had an absolute nightmare game last night!
You have to wonder about that last item. You want your OLs to be able to move, but when you recruit 6'4" 270 lb guys and talk about bulking them up, you have to face that these guys have bodies that are geared to their size - skeleton, connective tissue and organ size. The stress at 310, giving it everything, in the weight room and on the field puts them at risk.IssyBear said:
I know that Wilcox is a very data oriented guy, so I hope he does a deep dive on how/why so many OL have been injured over the past two years. It seems that we have had far more than our share of key players hurt. Are we targeting the correct things with our S & C staff? Are we practicing in too risky a manner (I think some of the injuries happened in practice)? Are there some types of equipment (braces) we could utilize to better protect our guys? Or, are we just unlucky? Or, are we recruiting fragile guys with a history of injuries in high school?
Also, we seem to have had a penchant for accepting guys who were great in hs, but suffered an injury in sr year. So, they're damaged goods (hate to phrase it that way, but...).
a few thoughts....
first, I think signing top OL and DL players is a little like signing top basketball centers/PFs.
The pool of talent is very small, so it's tough for Cal to sign them.
Contrast that with Oregon, who gets several of top linemen every year. I think the TV guy said their freshmen DE was the top at his position in the nation, and one of their DL was also.
second, when you have to play 'under-the-radar' and 'diamond in the rough' type guys who might be undersized, coming off injury, or just not as talented as the Oregon-type players, you get more injuries.
They have to play at a deficit regarding size, strength, speed, or talent.
When you have to do that, you get injuries.
Again, I relate it to playing out of position in basketball. You have a 6-6 guy trying to battle a 6-8 or 6-9 true PF all game, and the 6-6 guy is playing at a deficit all game and will get physically beat up just trying to keep them out of the paint.
first, I think signing top OL and DL players is a little like signing top basketball centers/PFs.
The pool of talent is very small, so it's tough for Cal to sign them.
Contrast that with Oregon, who gets several of top linemen every year. I think the TV guy said their freshmen DE was the top at his position in the nation, and one of their DL was also.
second, when you have to play 'under-the-radar' and 'diamond in the rough' type guys who might be undersized, coming off injury, or just not as talented as the Oregon-type players, you get more injuries.
They have to play at a deficit regarding size, strength, speed, or talent.
When you have to do that, you get injuries.
Again, I relate it to playing out of position in basketball. You have a 6-6 guy trying to battle a 6-8 or 6-9 true PF all game, and the 6-6 guy is playing at a deficit all game and will get physically beat up just trying to keep them out of the paint.
Heard that most of Furd's starting OLs are also out with injuries, but their OL performance doesn't seem to drop off much. Could be coaching, but my guess is because Furd has been able to recruit a bunch of 4* OL guys year after year. I can't fault Baldwin alone for poor offense when OL performance is so bad. Yet I have not heard anyone blaming Greatwood. Personally I think Cal needs a few more years to gradually build up reputation so OL recruits will want to come to Cal. Waiting for the day when Cal becomes an OL University.
OL is probably the hardest position to pick up and develop next to QB...maybe more difficult to make the jump to college given physical maturity, and as mentioned bulking up guys 50 lbs past what they might be. OL has to know all the offensive plays and formation but also your specialization of how to execute in the trenches, or mosh pit. Oddball mix of cerebral knowledge and giant men slamming and pounding each other. On top of that they rarely get noticed until there's an error.
Someone mentioned Cal should go raid Laney College for OL. They won state last year, there must be some players. Also CCSF and Butte.
Someone mentioned Cal should go raid Laney College for OL. They won state last year, there must be some players. Also CCSF and Butte.
They were more inept offensively against Oregon than we were. I think the way we looked was exasperated by Oregon legitimately having a great defense.
Besides injuries, we also lost the German OL who left the team, and the OL who switched to DL due to lack of depth there
The DL just hasn't had the number of injuries that the OL has had, but if they did we would look a lot worse on defense
Still, our DL is the weakness on our defense and the primary reason our run defense is weaker than last year
The DL just hasn't had the number of injuries that the OL has had, but if they did we would look a lot worse on defense
Still, our DL is the weakness on our defense and the primary reason our run defense is weaker than last year
So the Furdies had their fourth starter go down, and played with a line of frosh (including one player who had not seen a college down), and a junior, in front of the second and third string QBs (second sting guy went down during the game) and beat-up Udub. IMO, Oregon is a better team than Udub and Eugene is a tough place to play. Nevertheless, as some point the excuses have to stop, staring with Oregon State. If Frud can execute an offense under similar (if not worse) conditions, so can Cal.
HoopDreams said:
a few thoughts....
first, I think signing top OL and DL players is a little like signing top basketball centers/PFs.
The pool of talent is very small, so it's tough for Cal to sign them.
Contrast that with Oregon, who gets several of top linemen every year. I think the TV guy said their freshmen DE was the top at his position in the nation, and one of their DL was also.
second, when you have to play 'under-the-radar' and 'diamond in the rough' type guys who might be undersized, coming off injury, or just not as talented as the Oregon-type players, you get more injuries.
They have to play at a deficit regarding size, strength, speed, or talent.
When you have to do that, you get injuries.
Again, I relate it to playing out of position in basketball. You have a 6-6 guy trying to battle a 6-8 or 6-9 true PF all game, and the 6-6 guy is playing at a deficit all game and will get physically beat up just trying to keep them out of the paint.
Yes, this why you need to bring in at least 5 OL recruits a year and have them also be a focus your recruited walkons.
Harbaugh brought in big athletic guys listed as TEs and then moved them to OL. Of course he had "the Glove." Still, Bringing in big athletic guys and then being flexible as to their college position (OL, DL and TE) to ultimately get the best athletes on the field at their best position is the goal.
I suspect a "multiple" offense is tough to learn and play in as an OL. Better to pick an identity with a lot of variations off of a few similar looking plays.
Everybody is bulking up guys from high school. Very few high school linemen on either side of the ball have a ready to go D1 body.Rushinbear said:You have to wonder about that last item. You want your OLs to be able to move, but when you recruit 6'4" 270 lb guys and talk about bulking them up, you have to face that these guys have bodies that are geared to their size - skeleton, connective tissue and organ size. The stress at 310, giving it everything, in the weight room and on the field puts them at risk.IssyBear said:
I know that Wilcox is a very data oriented guy, so I hope he does a deep dive on how/why so many OL have been injured over the past two years. It seems that we have had far more than our share of key players hurt. Are we targeting the correct things with our S & C staff? Are we practicing in too risky a manner (I think some of the injuries happened in practice)? Are there some types of equipment (braces) we could utilize to better protect our guys? Or, are we just unlucky? Or, are we recruiting fragile guys with a history of injuries in high school?
Looking at our roster, we started the season with 17 offensive linemen. I assume several were walk-ons. As gross numbers go, that does not sound too bad.
Of the young guys that have been or are now playing, all are below 300 pounds. Craig (before he was injured) made a great effort to gain weight and strength. He was listed at 290. Cindric (who came in with Craig but redshirted) is listed at 295. Mellow, also a redshirt freshmen is listed at 295. Mettaeur a true Freshman is listed at 285. I would be willing to bet that these weights are like basketball heights, probably just a little inflated. My point is, that young guys not only have limited experience, they also often have limited bulk and strength. As has been noted, this year will give them valuable experience, but they will need time to grow if you want to convert on 4th and 1 by pounding the ball up the middle against a big and strong defense front. We sure miss Malik on those type of plays.
Of the young guys that have been or are now playing, all are below 300 pounds. Craig (before he was injured) made a great effort to gain weight and strength. He was listed at 290. Cindric (who came in with Craig but redshirted) is listed at 295. Mellow, also a redshirt freshmen is listed at 295. Mettaeur a true Freshman is listed at 285. I would be willing to bet that these weights are like basketball heights, probably just a little inflated. My point is, that young guys not only have limited experience, they also often have limited bulk and strength. As has been noted, this year will give them valuable experience, but they will need time to grow if you want to convert on 4th and 1 by pounding the ball up the middle against a big and strong defense front. We sure miss Malik on those type of plays.
Big C said:On the radio, they reported at the end of halftime that Saffell jogged out of the locker room in full pads. He was seen walking on the sidelines in the second half. Maybe he's back to play against the Beavers.HoopDreams said:
Good time for a bye, but not sure how much it will help our OL players
Any word on Saffell?
I hope so.
Go Bears!
Having lack of depth on the OL is not just a Wilcox issue. It seems like forever that has been an issue, which is why I compare the difficulty signing the good ones as a similar problem to recruit talented 6-9 to 7 foot centers/PFs
I think we had pretty good OL during the best Tedford years, but perhaps that is just selective memory
Basically this has been an issue for so long that I now look at how many/who we sign on the OL as much as positions such as QB and RB
Similar to DL
I think we had pretty good OL during the best Tedford years, but perhaps that is just selective memory
Basically this has been an issue for so long that I now look at how many/who we sign on the OL as much as positions such as QB and RB
Similar to DL
calumnus said:HoopDreams said:
a few thoughts....
first, I think signing top OL and DL players is a little like signing top basketball centers/PFs.
The pool of talent is very small, so it's tough for Cal to sign them.
Contrast that with Oregon, who gets several of top linemen every year. I think the TV guy said their freshmen DE was the top at his position in the nation, and one of their DL was also.
second, when you have to play 'under-the-radar' and 'diamond in the rough' type guys who might be undersized, coming off injury, or just not as talented as the Oregon-type players, you get more injuries.
They have to play at a deficit regarding size, strength, speed, or talent.
When you have to do that, you get injuries.
Again, I relate it to playing out of position in basketball. You have a 6-6 guy trying to battle a 6-8 or 6-9 true PF all game, and the 6-6 guy is playing at a deficit all game and will get physically beat up just trying to keep them out of the paint.
Yes, this why you need to bring in at least 5 OL recruits a year and have them also be a focus your recruited walkons.
Harbaugh brought in big athletic guys listed as TEs and then moved them to OL. Of course he had "the Glove." Still, Bringing in big athletic guys and then being flexible as to their college position (OL, DL and TE) to ultimately get the best athletes on the field at their best position is the goal.
I suspect a "multiple" offense is tough to learn and play in as an OL. Better to pick an identity with a lot of variations off of a few similar looking plays.
IssyBear said:
Looking at our roster, we started the season with 17 offensive linemen. I assume several were walk-ons. As gross numbers go, that does not sound too bad.
Of the young guys that have been or are now playing, all are below 300 pounds. Craig (before he was injured) made a great effort to gain weight and strength. He was listed at 290. Cindric (who came in with Craig but redshirted) is listed at 295. Mellow, also a redshirt freshmen is listed at 295. Mettaeur a true Freshman is listed at 285. I would be willing to bet that these weights are like basketball heights, probably just a little inflated. My point is, that young guys not only have limited experience, they also often have limited bulk and strength. As has been noted, this year will give them valuable experience, but they will need time to grow if you want to convert on 4th and 1 by pounding the ball up the middle against a big and strong defense front. We sure miss Malik on those type of plays.
So ...how did Furd do it? Are their 4* freshmen came in with bodies already at weights ready for D1 football? Do they have better OL coach? Their system simpler to learn?
I did not find any freshman offensive linemen on Stanford's roster with a listed weight over 300 lbs. In fact, a lot of their linemen (not just freshman) aren't listed over 300 lbs. A couple are only listed at 240.HungryCalBear said:IssyBear said:
Looking at our roster, we started the season with 17 offensive linemen. I assume several were walk-ons. As gross numbers go, that does not sound too bad.
Of the young guys that have been or are now playing, all are below 300 pounds. Craig (before he was injured) made a great effort to gain weight and strength. He was listed at 290. Cindric (who came in with Craig but redshirted) is listed at 295. Mellow, also a redshirt freshmen is listed at 295. Mettaeur a true Freshman is listed at 285. I would be willing to bet that these weights are like basketball heights, probably just a little inflated. My point is, that young guys not only have limited experience, they also often have limited bulk and strength. As has been noted, this year will give them valuable experience, but they will need time to grow if you want to convert on 4th and 1 by pounding the ball up the middle against a big and strong defense front. We sure miss Malik on those type of plays.
So ...how did Furd do it? Are their 4* freshmen came in with bodies already at weights ready for D1 football? Do they have better OL coach? Their system simpler to learn?
stanford has had some of the best OLs in the conferenceHungryCalBear said:IssyBear said:
Looking at our roster, we started the season with 17 offensive linemen. I assume several were walk-ons. As gross numbers go, that does not sound too bad.
Of the young guys that have been or are now playing, all are below 300 pounds. Craig (before he was injured) made a great effort to gain weight and strength. He was listed at 290. Cindric (who came in with Craig but redshirted) is listed at 295. Mellow, also a redshirt freshmen is listed at 295. Mettaeur a true Freshman is listed at 285. I would be willing to bet that these weights are like basketball heights, probably just a little inflated. My point is, that young guys not only have limited experience, they also often have limited bulk and strength. As has been noted, this year will give them valuable experience, but they will need time to grow if you want to convert on 4th and 1 by pounding the ball up the middle against a big and strong defense front. We sure miss Malik on those type of plays.
So ...how did Furd do it? Are their 4* freshmen came in with bodies already at weights ready for D1 football? Do they have better OL coach? Their system simpler to learn?
I think this year is down for them, but they have more quality depth than us
Let me take a shot at an answer: The Furd coaching system has been in place for several years. They have a tradition of winning and putting guys into the NFL. A smart kid with ready to go talent will likely choose them over us at this point. The Cal coaches (Greatwood) have been at Cal for 3 recruiting seasons. The first recruiting class had little time to attract talent and took only 14 players, 2 of which were OL (one was Saffell who is a junior this year). The second class took 25 players that included 4 OL (Craig, Cindric, Owens, and Friis) and a transfer Daltoso who is a junior. Craig is a soph and the rest are redshirt freshmen. Our most recent class took 25 players, 3 were OL (Meteauer, Rohme, and Driscoll). All of the other current OL were either walk-ons or recruited by Sonny.HungryCalBear said:IssyBear said:
Looking at our roster, we started the season with 17 offensive linemen. I assume several were walk-ons. As gross numbers go, that does not sound too bad.
Of the young guys that have been or are now playing, all are below 300 pounds. Craig (before he was injured) made a great effort to gain weight and strength. He was listed at 290. Cindric (who came in with Craig but redshirted) is listed at 295. Mellow, also a redshirt freshmen is listed at 295. Mettaeur a true Freshman is listed at 285. I would be willing to bet that these weights are like basketball heights, probably just a little inflated. My point is, that young guys not only have limited experience, they also often have limited bulk and strength. As has been noted, this year will give them valuable experience, but they will need time to grow if you want to convert on 4th and 1 by pounding the ball up the middle against a big and strong defense front. We sure miss Malik on those type of plays.
So ...how did Furd do it? Are their 4* freshmen came in with bodies already at weights ready for D1 football? Do they have better OL coach? Their system simpler to learn?
You can compare us to the Furd if you want, but I think they have had a pretty big head start on OL recruiting Our pre-injury OL was pretty good and I think measured up to the 4* guys across the Bay. We are just not yet the type of program that can stockpile a stud 3rd string OL. Few schools are. Give Greatwood a little more time, and let's see if he can do it when his recruits become seniors.
Good question. Here is a not so insightful article.HungryCalBear said:IssyBear said:
Looking at our roster, we started the season with 17 offensive linemen. I assume several were walk-ons. As gross numbers go, that does not sound too bad.
Of the young guys that have been or are now playing, all are below 300 pounds. Craig (before he was injured) made a great effort to gain weight and strength. He was listed at 290. Cindric (who came in with Craig but redshirted) is listed at 295. Mellow, also a redshirt freshmen is listed at 295. Mettaeur a true Freshman is listed at 285. I would be willing to bet that these weights are like basketball heights, probably just a little inflated. My point is, that young guys not only have limited experience, they also often have limited bulk and strength. As has been noted, this year will give them valuable experience, but they will need time to grow if you want to convert on 4th and 1 by pounding the ball up the middle against a big and strong defense front. We sure miss Malik on those type of plays.
So ...how did Furd do it? Are their 4* freshmen came in with bodies already at weights ready for D1 football? Do they have better OL coach? Their system simpler to learn?
Takeaways: Stanford relies on freshmen to finish upset of Washington https://bayareane.ws/2Mb2MQY via @mercnews.
Let me try to speculate.
Oline: Some of it has to be scheme. Multiple to me says we do everything, which means go memorize blocking assignments for a JT size playbook. So yes, Furd simpler to learn probably. The frosh LT, a star, while not as developed as Little, had a great camp and was gong to play somewhere once there was an injury. Tall and somewhat under weight - a little like Mettaeur. The other guys are 3 stars. The last two years, Furd, like the rest of the conference has not been getting 5 stars and few 4 stars. The starters that went down, like Little, are 4 and 5 star players.
What I also think helps them is they recruit TE's well and play them a lot. As we all know, recruiting TE's is a priority for Cal, that has not worked out that well. Also, Furd tends to have big WRs who can block.
As for coaching, the old guys were coached by the highly regarded Mike Bloomgren who left in December 2018, to be a head coach. The new guy Carbarry, a former NFL line coach, said he changed very little in the way of technique. They obviously are good at recognizing line talent. That said, Cal also has a highly regarded oline coach. My understanding is that he likes to develop certain types of players his way, so there may be more of a learning curve under Greatwood; thus the injuires may have been more damaging to Cal.
On the QB side a very different story. Costello, Modster and Garbers, are all 4 stars QBs out of OC. Costello obviously has more arm strength, but the Cal QBs were thought to be more mobile, and Garbers particularly accurate. The major contrast comes with the Furd back-up, Mills, was a five star, and the number 1 pro QB, and number 15 player in the country. It was assumed he might start as a frosh, but Costello beat him out. The third guy up was a high 4 star out of Alabama of all places. He was not recruited by Bama. Furd has been able to recruit well at QB since Luck, and they have relatively underperformed at that position. But looking at the ratings, they have higher rated QBs. I still think Cal top two QBs are better than they have shown, and that is on the coaching staff and Baldwin offensive scheme.
Some clarifications on Furd recruiting. The last two recruiting cycles, Furd has recruited only three star line guys. Their starting line-up in the first game, most of which has gone down to injuries, was Little (5 star), Sarrel (5 star), Dalman (3 star), Hattis (3 star) and Devery (high 4 star). By the end of the Huskies game, Furd was down to six scholarship players on the line. I think it is Dalman and various 3 stars, though Sarrel may be back. Furd has lost a lot of oline guys to attrition (injury, transfer, etc.). There currently are no third string oline guys, other than walk-ons.IssyBear said:Let me take a shot at an answer: The Furd coaching system has been in place for several years. They have a tradition of winning and putting guys into the NFL. A smart kid with ready to go talent will likely choose them over us at this point. The Cal coaches (Greatwood) have been at Cal for 3 recruiting seasons. The first recruiting class had little time to attract talent and took only 14 players, 2 of which were OL (one was Saffell who is a junior this year). The second class took 25 players that included 4 OL (Craig, Cindric, Owens, and Friis) and a transfer Daltoso who is a junior. Craig is a soph and the rest are redshirt freshmen. Our most recent class took 25 players, 3 were OL (Meteauer, Rohme, and Driscoll). All of the other current OL were either walk-ons or recruited by Sonny.HungryCalBear said:IssyBear said:
Looking at our roster, we started the season with 17 offensive linemen. I assume several were walk-ons. As gross numbers go, that does not sound too bad.
Of the young guys that have been or are now playing, all are below 300 pounds. Craig (before he was injured) made a great effort to gain weight and strength. He was listed at 290. Cindric (who came in with Craig but redshirted) is listed at 295. Mellow, also a redshirt freshmen is listed at 295. Mettaeur a true Freshman is listed at 285. I would be willing to bet that these weights are like basketball heights, probably just a little inflated. My point is, that young guys not only have limited experience, they also often have limited bulk and strength. As has been noted, this year will give them valuable experience, but they will need time to grow if you want to convert on 4th and 1 by pounding the ball up the middle against a big and strong defense front. We sure miss Malik on those type of plays.
So ...how did Furd do it? Are their 4* freshmen came in with bodies already at weights ready for D1 football? Do they have better OL coach? Their system simpler to learn?
You can compare us to the Furd if you want, but I think they have had a pretty big head start on OL recruiting Our pre-injury OL was pretty good and I think measured up to the 4* guys across the Bay. We are just not yet the type of program that can stockpile a stud 3rd string OL. Few schools are. Give Greatwood a little more time, and let's see if he can do it when his recruits become seniors.
Next year, Cal's line will be deep, experienced and good.
It will be none of those things, but most especially deep.wifeisafurd said:
Next year, Cal's line will be deep, experienced and good.
Yeah, but if bulking up is by fat, you're not doing yourself much good. Through nutrition and a hi rep routine, you've got to shed bad weight (which takes a year) before you can add good weight, through muscle. Takes time and you're still stuck with a 270# structure.Pigskin Pete said:Everybody is bulking up guys from high school. Very few high school linemen on either side of the ball have a ready to go D1 body.Rushinbear said:You have to wonder about that last item. You want your OLs to be able to move, but when you recruit 6'4" 270 lb guys and talk about bulking them up, you have to face that these guys have bodies that are geared to their size - skeleton, connective tissue and organ size. The stress at 310, giving it everything, in the weight room and on the field puts them at risk.IssyBear said:
I know that Wilcox is a very data oriented guy, so I hope he does a deep dive on how/why so many OL have been injured over the past two years. It seems that we have had far more than our share of key players hurt. Are we targeting the correct things with our S & C staff? Are we practicing in too risky a manner (I think some of the injuries happened in practice)? Are there some types of equipment (braces) we could utilize to better protect our guys? Or, are we just unlucky? Or, are we recruiting fragile guys with a history of injuries in high school?
BTW, what happened to Coleman? He was highly regarded and big. Switched to DL, then seems to have disappeared.
Saffell was testing it by running on the sidelines prior to the start of the second half. From the stands he looked good to go. A little surprised he didn't return based on how he was moving.Big C said:On the radio, they reported at the end of halftime that Saffell jogged out of the locker room in full pads. He was seen walking on the sidelines in the second half. Maybe he's back to play against the Beavers.HoopDreams said:
Good time for a bye, but not sure how much it will help our OL players
Any word on Saffell?
Yes we as fans, along with all fanbases, never seem to think our woes have anything to do with the opponent. Oregon hadn't allowed a TD in 3 games straight before playing us. There D is fantastic, and better than ours at stopping the run. If you can't run, you can't win unless you are very lucky. This game was not a game Cal could reasonably be expected to win considering the injuries and backup QB. We would have beat Arizona St. with Garbers in. That being said, I don't love Baldy's play calling either, but it would look a lot better with the oline in tact running the ball well and passing out of play action.packawana said:
They were more inept offensively against Oregon than we were. I think the way we looked was exasperated by Oregon legitimately having a great defense.
And yet linemen do get bigger in a year, despite whatever it is you think actually happens.Rushinbear said:Yeah, but if bulking up is by fat, you're not doing yourself much good. Through nutrition and a hi rep routine, you've got to shed bad weight (which takes a year) before you can add good weight, through muscle. Takes time and you're still stuck with a 270# structure.Pigskin Pete said:Everybody is bulking up guys from high school. Very few high school linemen on either side of the ball have a ready to go D1 body.Rushinbear said:You have to wonder about that last item. You want your OLs to be able to move, but when you recruit 6'4" 270 lb guys and talk about bulking them up, you have to face that these guys have bodies that are geared to their size - skeleton, connective tissue and organ size. The stress at 310, giving it everything, in the weight room and on the field puts them at risk.IssyBear said:
I know that Wilcox is a very data oriented guy, so I hope he does a deep dive on how/why so many OL have been injured over the past two years. It seems that we have had far more than our share of key players hurt. Are we targeting the correct things with our S & C staff? Are we practicing in too risky a manner (I think some of the injuries happened in practice)? Are there some types of equipment (braces) we could utilize to better protect our guys? Or, are we just unlucky? Or, are we recruiting fragile guys with a history of injuries in high school?
BTW, what happened to Coleman? He was highly regarded and big. Switched to DL, then seems to have disappeared.
Coleman converted to offensive line, where he was considered a better prospect at the recruiting stage.
Thought he came in as an OL and was moved to DL. Thanks.Pigskin Pete said:And yet linemen do get bigger in a year, despite whatever it is you think actually happens.Rushinbear said:Yeah, but if bulking up is by fat, you're not doing yourself much good. Through nutrition and a hi rep routine, you've got to shed bad weight (which takes a year) before you can add good weight, through muscle. Takes time and you're still stuck with a 270# structure.Pigskin Pete said:Everybody is bulking up guys from high school. Very few high school linemen on either side of the ball have a ready to go D1 body.Rushinbear said:You have to wonder about that last item. You want your OLs to be able to move, but when you recruit 6'4" 270 lb guys and talk about bulking them up, you have to face that these guys have bodies that are geared to their size - skeleton, connective tissue and organ size. The stress at 310, giving it everything, in the weight room and on the field puts them at risk.IssyBear said:
I know that Wilcox is a very data oriented guy, so I hope he does a deep dive on how/why so many OL have been injured over the past two years. It seems that we have had far more than our share of key players hurt. Are we targeting the correct things with our S & C staff? Are we practicing in too risky a manner (I think some of the injuries happened in practice)? Are there some types of equipment (braces) we could utilize to better protect our guys? Or, are we just unlucky? Or, are we recruiting fragile guys with a history of injuries in high school?
BTW, what happened to Coleman? He was highly regarded and big. Switched to DL, then seems to have disappeared.
Coleman converted to offensive line, where he was considered a better prospect at the recruiting stage.
What I think happens now depends on the regimen. They can eat clean, lose the fat, then build back up with an exercise regimen or they can eat a lot from the jump and add weight directly (with the fat that goes along with it). The former takes longer, but I think is better for agility, stamina, quicks.
All depends on the kid, too. Some will keep growing and gaining natural weight. Others will have achieved full natural growth by their fr/soph year. Not easy to forecast that.
I understand some of the other sports' people are very good and sometimes have been known to help out with football.Goobear said:There is no problem with S&C. Medical staff and some trainers should be dedicated to FB only but is not. That should change but costs money..IssyBear said:
I know that Wilcox is a very data oriented guy, so I hope he does a deep dive on how/why so many OL have been injured over the past two years. It seems that we have had far more than our share of key players hurt. Are we targeting the correct things with our S & C staff? Are we practicing in too risky a manner (I think some of the injuries happened in practice)? Are there some types of equipment (braces) we could utilize to better protect our guys? Or, are we just unlucky? Or, are we recruiting fragile guys with a history of injuries in high school?
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