Monty saved the program before and he's 5 years younger than the POTUS. 
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Bring back Mike Montgomery
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Last: 3 yr ago by puget sound cal fan
He was mailing it in at the end....especially with regard to recruiting.
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
bearister said:
He was mailing it in at the end....especially with regard to recruiting.
He had health challenges. And while he was never a good or very interested recruiter, it became impossible after he physically assaulted his best player on a national TV broadcast. If Bobby Knight could get fired from Indiana decades ago for doing something similar to a player in practice, how can that fly at Cal when everyone saw it on TV? Add that In Montgomery's case the player was African American and it added a racial component to the ensuing national discussion. What opposing coach wouldn't use that against him? It was the opposite of what Cal stands for. Imagine Montgomery trying to recruit Jalylen Brown to Cal based on Cal's history of social justice?
grrrah..everyone is younger than POTUS.
Cal has a history of social justice?calumnus said:bearister said:
He was mailing it in at the end....especially with regard to recruiting.
He had health challenges. And while he was never a good or very interested recruiter, it became impossible after he physically assaulted his best player on a national TV broadcast. If Bobby Knight could get fired from Indiana decades ago for doing something similar to a player in practice, how can that fly at Cal when everyone saw it on TV? Add that In Montgomery's case the player was African American and it added a racial component to the ensuing national discussion. What opposing coach wouldn't use that against him? It was the opposite of what Cal stands for. Imagine Montgomery trying to recruit Jalylen Brown to Cal based on Cal's history of social justice?
Cal has a long history of discussing social justice.BearForce2 said:Cal has a history of social justice?calumnus said:bearister said:
He was mailing it in at the end....especially with regard to recruiting.
He had health challenges. And while he was never a good or very interested recruiter, it became impossible after he physically assaulted his best player on a national TV broadcast. If Bobby Knight could get fired from Indiana decades ago for doing something similar to a player in practice, how can that fly at Cal when everyone saw it on TV? Add that In Montgomery's case the player was African American and it added a racial component to the ensuing national discussion. What opposing coach wouldn't use that against him? It was the opposite of what Cal stands for. Imagine Montgomery trying to recruit Jalylen Brown to Cal based on Cal's history of social justice?
Definition of "social justice", please.
And, how does a definition of "social justice" differ from just plain justice??
And, how does a definition of "social justice" differ from just plain justice??
Maybe he should have said political activism. You all know what he meant. Do you really need to turn this into a political discussion on the basketball board?stu said:Cal has a long history of discussing social justice.BearForce2 said:Cal has a history of social justice?calumnus said:bearister said:
He was mailing it in at the end....especially with regard to recruiting.
He had health challenges. And while he was never a good or very interested recruiter, it became impossible after he physically assaulted his best player on a national TV broadcast. If Bobby Knight could get fired from Indiana decades ago for doing something similar to a player in practice, how can that fly at Cal when everyone saw it on TV? Add that In Montgomery's case the player was African American and it added a racial component to the ensuing national discussion. What opposing coach wouldn't use that against him? It was the opposite of what Cal stands for. Imagine Montgomery trying to recruit Jalylen Brown to Cal based on Cal's history of social justice?
I'm out of my field here but I think plain justice refers to law enforcement, courts, prisons, etc. while social justice includes employment, education, housing, and more.helltopay1 said:
Definition of "social justice", please.
And, how does a definition of "social justice" differ from just plain justice??
Edit: add basketball to the social justice list.
Well, Montgomery might get us another conference championship (he has won 6 of those) but he does have a ceiling. In 30 years of coaching, the best he has done in the NCAA is a final four appearance, and that was just once. Still after watching the last 4 years, I'd take him back in a heartbeat. Except that then we'd have to listen to the constant whining from fans about how Montgomery can't recruit.
He was a coach's coach, and proved you don't need 5-star players to be competitive in the PAC12. He brought some very good players to Cal, good enough to start in a NCAA Tournament Championship game (Jordan Mathews), good enough to win PAC12 POY (Allen Crabbe, Jorge Gutierrez), good enough to make it to the NBA (Crabbe, Jorge, Tyrone Wallace, and Jabari Bird), and a couple of players good enough to start for many top college teams (Justin Cobbs and David Kravish). Monty recruited some good players. He just didn't recruit enough of them.
He was a coach's coach, and proved you don't need 5-star players to be competitive in the PAC12. He brought some very good players to Cal, good enough to start in a NCAA Tournament Championship game (Jordan Mathews), good enough to win PAC12 POY (Allen Crabbe, Jorge Gutierrez), good enough to make it to the NBA (Crabbe, Jorge, Tyrone Wallace, and Jabari Bird), and a couple of players good enough to start for many top college teams (Justin Cobbs and David Kravish). Monty recruited some good players. He just didn't recruit enough of them.
SFCityBear
80 tourneys, 320 potential Final 4 teams, about 60 D1 P5 bball programs. Assume 10 different coaches per program per 80 year span, including rehire of a coach at a new school.
I think 154 different coaches have made the F4. (Coach K and Wooden each did it 12 times)
So making even 1 F4 makes that coach among the top ~25% in all of P5 coaching by this crude measure (154/600)? Id take that anytime. And that seemed like Montys record, top 3-4 out of 12 rank in conference on avg.
I think 154 different coaches have made the F4. (Coach K and Wooden each did it 12 times)
So making even 1 F4 makes that coach among the top ~25% in all of P5 coaching by this crude measure (154/600)? Id take that anytime. And that seemed like Montys record, top 3-4 out of 12 rank in conference on avg.
SFCityBear said:
He was a coach's coach, and proved you don't need 5-star players to be competitive in the PAC12. He didn't bring any to Cal, but he brought some very good players to Cal, good enough to start in a NCAA Tournament Championship game (Jordan Mathews), good enough to win PAC12 POY (Allen Crabbe, Jorge Gutierrez), good enough to make it to the NBA (Crabbe, Jorge, Tyrone Wallace, and Jabari Bird), and a couple of players good enough to start for many top college teams (Justin Cobbs and David Kravish). Monty recruited some good players. He just didn't recruit enough of them.
Bird was a 5 star
PtownBear1 said:SFCityBear said:
He was a coach's coach, and proved you don't need 5-star players to be competitive in the PAC12. He didn't bring any to Cal, but he brought some very good players to Cal, good enough to start in a NCAA Tournament Championship game (Jordan Mathews), good enough to win PAC12 POY (Allen Crabbe, Jorge Gutierrez), good enough to make it to the NBA (Crabbe, Jorge, Tyrone Wallace, and Jabari Bird), and a couple of players good enough to start for many top college teams (Justin Cobbs and David Kravish). Monty recruited some good players. He just didn't recruit enough of them.
Bird was a 5 star
His best Cal team was early. 3 top 100 players plus Braun finds like Randle, Theo and Kamp to which he added ,his own finds Jorge and MSF.
We will have zero top 100 recruits on the team next year for the first time in decades. Hopefully Fox has found some diamonds in the rough.
Thank you for pointing this out. I've corrected my earlier post.PtownBear1 said:SFCityBear said:
He was a coach's coach, and proved you don't need 5-star players to be competitive in the PAC12. He didn't bring any to Cal, but he brought some very good players to Cal, good enough to start in a NCAA Tournament Championship game (Jordan Mathews), good enough to win PAC12 POY (Allen Crabbe, Jorge Gutierrez), good enough to make it to the NBA (Crabbe, Jorge, Tyrone Wallace, and Jabari Bird), and a couple of players good enough to start for many top college teams (Justin Cobbs and David Kravish). Monty recruited some good players. He just didn't recruit enough of them.
Bird was a 5 star
SFCityBear
Actually just teasing about bring back Mike, as he is well into retirement. His teams were intelligently coached and he got a lot out of his players. And we beat #1 Arizona and the PAC12 championship for the first time in 50 years. Except for the year we got two top ten recruits, the program has been a mess and almost unwatchable. Short term future looks bleak.
grrrah76 said:
Actually just teasing about bring back Mike, as he is well into retirement. His teams were intelligently coached and he got a lot out of his players. And we beat #1 Arizona and the PAC12 championship for the first time in 50 years. Except for the year we got two top ten recruits, the program has been a mess and almost unwatchable. Short term future looks bleak.
Teams with high offensive efficiency are almost always very well coached. His first Cal team was #11 and his second was #3 in Offense according to Ken Pom. Pretty big drop off after those two teams though. His best defensive team was 2011-2012 ranked #28 on defense with great defenders like Crabbe, Jorge and Cobbs and good shot blockers like Solomon and Kravish.
...he couldn't do anything with them.
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