RedlessWardrobe said:

---

If last night's game is indicative of this year's blueprint for Cal to win a (couple,few,several,many) games this season it appears that Andre and Grant are the shiny wings of this Cal basketball model . But it sure looks like the 2 engines on this aircraft are Joel Brown and Sam Alajiki.

These guys need to be on the court as much as possible, because this is a team that is very weak defensively, and these two guys fill the gap created by that deficiency. Their defensive tenacity does two things. First obviously it makes us more respectable on defense (duh), but I also think their constant intensity carries over to the other side of the ball. Looks to me like it spills over to the opponents defensive fatigue factor when we have the ball.

And I'm growing a little tired of the "Joel dribbles too much" criticism. In many cases when our offensive rotation plays break down and the shot clock gets below 10, Joel's quickness off the dribble becomes our best chance to score. If the plays that are run are better executed (or better strategized) then it doesn't get to this. It is what it is. As I have mentioned before, we can only hope somehow Joel's FT % improves.

FWIW, the energy that Sam and Joel bring to this team makes it much easier to watch. Keep their minutes up.

---

calumnus said:

---

Oakbear said:

---

"And I'm growing a little tired of the "Joel dribbles too much" criticism. In many cases when our offensive rotation plays break down and the shot clock gets below 10, Joel's quickness off the dribble becomes our best chance to score. If the plays that are run are better executed (or better strategized) then it doesn't get to this. It is what it is. As I have mentioned before, we can only hope somehow Joel's FT % improves."

my complaint about his excess dribbling is early in the shot clock .. I agree that at the end of the shot clock his dribbling does help

one of the things that needs to happen is more guys need to move better to get open so he does not have to dribble so much

---

It is by design. It is not coincidence Fox's teams are always near the bottom of college basketball in tempo. Brown is killing clock as his coach wants. Don't blame the player for that.

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Oakbear said:

---

"And I'm growing a little tired of the "Joel dribbles too much" criticism. In many cases when our offensive rotation plays break down and the shot clock gets below 10, Joel's quickness off the dribble becomes our best chance to score. If the plays that are run are better executed (or better strategized) then it doesn't get to this. It is what it is. As I have mentioned before, we can only hope somehow Joel's FT % improves."

my complaint about his excess dribbling is early in the shot clock .. I agree that at the end of the shot clock his dribbling does help

one of the things that needs to happen is more guys need to move better to get open so he does not have to dribble so much

---

It is by design. It is not coincidence Fox's teams are always near the bottom of college basketball in tempo. Brown is killing clock as his coach wants. Don't blame the player for that.

---

To clarify, it sounds like your opinion is being more critical of Fox. Just curious. If you had to choose, is the problem more about his offense philosophy or is it more about the specific plays run from a strategic standpoint? (please try not to say both the same)

---

CalLifer said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Oakbear said:

---

"And I'm growing a little tired of the "Joel dribbles too much" criticism. In many cases when our offensive rotation plays break down and the shot clock gets below 10, Joel's quickness off the dribble becomes our best chance to score. If the plays that are run are better executed (or better strategized) then it doesn't get to this. It is what it is. As I have mentioned before, we can only hope somehow Joel's FT % improves."

my complaint about his excess dribbling is early in the shot clock .. I agree that at the end of the shot clock his dribbling does help

one of the things that needs to happen is more guys need to move better to get open so he does not have to dribble so much

---

It is by design. It is not coincidence Fox's teams are always near the bottom of college basketball in tempo. Brown is killing clock as his coach wants. Don't blame the player for that.

---

To clarify, it sounds like your opinion is being more critical of Fox. Just curious. If you had to choose, is the problem more about his offense philosophy or is it more about the specific plays run from a strategic standpoint? (please try not to say both the same)

---

Based on Fox's history, I believe his overall strategy is to "shorten" the game by reducing the number of possessions. On offense, that generally leads to trying to reduce turnovers and play deep in the shot clock, and on defense that means playing tough man-to-man defense and not giving up any easy looks, forcing opponents themselves to take up much of the shot clock.

I don't have any insight into what his offensive philosophy is outside of that, but I think his overall goal of reducing the number of possessions plays into the style of offense he coaches.

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Oakbear said:

---

"And I'm growing a little tired of the "Joel dribbles too much" criticism. In many cases when our offensive rotation plays break down and the shot clock gets below 10, Joel's quickness off the dribble becomes our best chance to score. If the plays that are run are better executed (or better strategized) then it doesn't get to this. It is what it is. As I have mentioned before, we can only hope somehow Joel's FT % improves."

my complaint about his excess dribbling is early in the shot clock .. I agree that at the end of the shot clock his dribbling does help

one of the things that needs to happen is more guys need to move better to get open so he does not have to dribble so much

---

It is by design. It is not coincidence Fox's teams are always near the bottom of college basketball in tempo. Brown is killing clock as his coach wants. Don't blame the player for that.

---

To clarify, it sounds like your opinion is being more critical of Fox. Just curious. If you had to choose, is the problem more about his offense philosophy or is it more about the specific plays run from a strategic standpoint? (please try not to say both the same)

---

Based on Fox's history, I believe his overall strategy is to "shorten" the game by reducing the number of possessions. On offense, that generally leads to trying to reduce turnovers and play deep in the shot clock, and on defense that means playing tough man-to-man defense and not giving up any easy looks, forcing opponents themselves to take up much of the shot clock.

I don't have any insight into what his offensive philosophy is outside of that, but I think his overall goal of reducing the number of possessions plays into the style of offense he coaches.

---

Thanks for the response. I know this is really keeping it simple, but I would think most coaches would want their team to get the highest percentage shot possbile, regardless of whether its 12 seconds in, to say 25 seconds in, early or late.

---

Quote:

---

Pace
Georgia's offensive pace has ranged from almost average (2016, 2017) to excruciatingly slow (2012, 2013, 2018). And to be clear, that pace is more driven by his offense than by a defense that doesn't really have a consistent pace. Georgia's weaker offenses under Fox tended to play slower, but I can't say if that's because Fox wanted them to play slow, or it just took them longer to find a good shot because they weren't talented enough to find a shot with any speed.
A fair warning: If Fox's Cal teams end up playing offense similarly to his Georgia teams, you're in for a double whammy of offense that is painful both in terms of results and style.

---

CalLifer said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Oakbear said:

---

"And I'm growing a little tired of the "Joel dribbles too much" criticism. In many cases when our offensive rotation plays break down and the shot clock gets below 10, Joel's quickness off the dribble becomes our best chance to score. If the plays that are run are better executed (or better strategized) then it doesn't get to this. It is what it is. As I have mentioned before, we can only hope somehow Joel's FT % improves."

my complaint about his excess dribbling is early in the shot clock .. I agree that at the end of the shot clock his dribbling does help

one of the things that needs to happen is more guys need to move better to get open so he does not have to dribble so much

---

It is by design. It is not coincidence Fox's teams are always near the bottom of college basketball in tempo. Brown is killing clock as his coach wants. Don't blame the player for that.

---

To clarify, it sounds like your opinion is being more critical of Fox. Just curious. If you had to choose, is the problem more about his offense philosophy or is it more about the specific plays run from a strategic standpoint? (please try not to say both the same)

---

Based on Fox's history, I believe his overall strategy is to "shorten" the game by reducing the number of possessions. On offense, that generally leads to trying to reduce turnovers and play deep in the shot clock, and on defense that means playing tough man-to-man defense and not giving up any easy looks, forcing opponents themselves to take up much of the shot clock.

I don't have any insight into what his offensive philosophy is outside of that, but I think his overall goal of reducing the number of possessions plays into the style of offense he coaches.

---

Thanks for the response. I know this is really keeping it simple, but I would think most coaches would want their team to get the highest percentage shot possbile, regardless of whether its 12 seconds in, to say 25 seconds in, early or late.

---

If someone has access to advanced data (like kenpom), I'm sure we can look at Fox's history and see the pace at which his teams play. CGB ran a piece on Fox when he was hired, and here is the piece on pace:

Quote:

---

Pace
Georgia's offensive pace has ranged from almost average (2016, 2017) to excruciatingly slow (2012, 2013, 2018). And to be clear, that pace is more driven by his offense than by a defense that doesn't really have a consistent pace. Georgia's weaker offenses under Fox tended to play slower, but I can't say if that's because Fox wanted them to play slow, or it just took them longer to find a good shot because they weren't talented enough to find a shot with any speed.
A fair warning: If Fox's Cal teams end up playing offense similarly to his Georgia teams, you're in for a double whammy of offense that is painful both in terms of results and style.

---

So he generally plays at a slow pace (ranging from extremely slow to average). As the snippet above says, it might be that when his offensive skilled talent isn't as strong, they play on the slower side.

To your point, though, if the offense is not always probing to find the best shot, it is unlikely they will find one 12 seconds in. I haven't had a chance to watch all of the games, but from what I've seen of the O this year, I haven't seen us really try to stress the defense early in the clock. Maybe I'm not seeing all the ways that we are trying to create high percentage shots early in the clock, but that's been my view. It does seem like we are trying to milk clock and then focus on getting a look late in the clock.

---

calumnus said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Oakbear said:

---

"And I'm growing a little tired of the "Joel dribbles too much" criticism. In many cases when our offensive rotation plays break down and the shot clock gets below 10, Joel's quickness off the dribble becomes our best chance to score. If the plays that are run are better executed (or better strategized) then it doesn't get to this. It is what it is. As I have mentioned before, we can only hope somehow Joel's FT % improves."

my complaint about his excess dribbling is early in the shot clock .. I agree that at the end of the shot clock his dribbling does help

one of the things that needs to happen is more guys need to move better to get open so he does not have to dribble so much

---

It is by design. It is not coincidence Fox's teams are always near the bottom of college basketball in tempo. Brown is killing clock as his coach wants. Don't blame the player for that.

---

To clarify, it sounds like your opinion is being more critical of Fox. Just curious. If you had to choose, is the problem more about his offense philosophy or is it more about the specific plays run from a strategic standpoint? (please try not to say both the same)

---

Based on Fox's history, I believe his overall strategy is to "shorten" the game by reducing the number of possessions. On offense, that generally leads to trying to reduce turnovers and play deep in the shot clock, and on defense that means playing tough man-to-man defense and not giving up any easy looks, forcing opponents themselves to take up much of the shot clock.

I don't have any insight into what his offensive philosophy is outside of that, but I think his overall goal of reducing the number of possessions plays into the style of offense he coaches.

---

Thanks for the response. I know this is really keeping it simple, but I would think most coaches would want their team to get the highest percentage shot possbile, regardless of whether its 12 seconds in, to say 25 seconds in, early or late.

---

If someone has access to advanced data (like kenpom), I'm sure we can look at Fox's history and see the pace at which his teams play. CGB ran a piece on Fox when he was hired, and here is the piece on pace:

Quote:

---

Pace
Georgia's offensive pace has ranged from almost average (2016, 2017) to excruciatingly slow (2012, 2013, 2018). And to be clear, that pace is more driven by his offense than by a defense that doesn't really have a consistent pace. Georgia's weaker offenses under Fox tended to play slower, but I can't say if that's because Fox wanted them to play slow, or it just took them longer to find a good shot because they weren't talented enough to find a shot with any speed.
A fair warning: If Fox's Cal teams end up playing offense similarly to his Georgia teams, you're in for a double whammy of offense that is painful both in terms of results and style.

---

So he generally plays at a slow pace (ranging from extremely slow to average). As the snippet above says, it might be that when his offensive skilled talent isn't as strong, they play on the slower side.

To your point, though, if the offense is not always probing to find the best shot, it is unlikely they will find one 12 seconds in. I haven't had a chance to watch all of the games, but from what I've seen of the O this year, I haven't seen us really try to stress the defense early in the clock. Maybe I'm not seeing all the ways that we are trying to create high percentage shots early in the clock, but that's been my view. It does seem like we are trying to milk clock and then focus on getting a look late in the clock.

---

At Cal and most of the time at Georgia his teams have ranked in the 300s in tempo. However, the absolute slowest team in the country last year was Virginia. UCLA played even slower than than Cal. So there are good teams that play slow. One of the fastest playing teams (#7) was Gonzaga. Duke under coach K played fast. Montgomery played fast at Cal. Braun, Cuonzo and now Fox played slow.

I prefer coaches that focus on offensive and defensive efficiency, but there are many ways to do it.

For some "defensive" coaches, they want frenetic activity on defense and then take the first part of the offensive possession to have the team rest and calm down and focus on getting a good shot.

---

CalLifer said:

---

calumnus said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

CalLifer said:

---

RedlessWardrobe said:

---

calumnus said:

---

Oakbear said:

---

"And I'm growing a little tired of the "Joel dribbles too much" criticism. In many cases when our offensive rotation plays break down and the shot clock gets below 10, Joel's quickness off the dribble becomes our best chance to score. If the plays that are run are better executed (or better strategized) then it doesn't get to this. It is what it is. As I have mentioned before, we can only hope somehow Joel's FT % improves."

my complaint about his excess dribbling is early in the shot clock .. I agree that at the end of the shot clock his dribbling does help

one of the things that needs to happen is more guys need to move better to get open so he does not have to dribble so much

---

It is by design. It is not coincidence Fox's teams are always near the bottom of college basketball in tempo. Brown is killing clock as his coach wants. Don't blame the player for that.

---

To clarify, it sounds like your opinion is being more critical of Fox. Just curious. If you had to choose, is the problem more about his offense philosophy or is it more about the specific plays run from a strategic standpoint? (please try not to say both the same)

---

Based on Fox's history, I believe his overall strategy is to "shorten" the game by reducing the number of possessions. On offense, that generally leads to trying to reduce turnovers and play deep in the shot clock, and on defense that means playing tough man-to-man defense and not giving up any easy looks, forcing opponents themselves to take up much of the shot clock.

I don't have any insight into what his offensive philosophy is outside of that, but I think his overall goal of reducing the number of possessions plays into the style of offense he coaches.

---

Thanks for the response. I know this is really keeping it simple, but I would think most coaches would want their team to get the highest percentage shot possbile, regardless of whether its 12 seconds in, to say 25 seconds in, early or late.

---

If someone has access to advanced data (like kenpom), I'm sure we can look at Fox's history and see the pace at which his teams play. CGB ran a piece on Fox when he was hired, and here is the piece on pace:

Quote:

---

Pace
Georgia's offensive pace has ranged from almost average (2016, 2017) to excruciatingly slow (2012, 2013, 2018). And to be clear, that pace is more driven by his offense than by a defense that doesn't really have a consistent pace. Georgia's weaker offenses under Fox tended to play slower, but I can't say if that's because Fox wanted them to play slow, or it just took them longer to find a good shot because they weren't talented enough to find a shot with any speed.
A fair warning: If Fox's Cal teams end up playing offense similarly to his Georgia teams, you're in for a double whammy of offense that is painful both in terms of results and style.

---

So he generally plays at a slow pace (ranging from extremely slow to average). As the snippet above says, it might be that when his offensive skilled talent isn't as strong, they play on the slower side.

To your point, though, if the offense is not always probing to find the best shot, it is unlikely they will find one 12 seconds in. I haven't had a chance to watch all of the games, but from what I've seen of the O this year, I haven't seen us really try to stress the defense early in the clock. Maybe I'm not seeing all the ways that we are trying to create high percentage shots early in the clock, but that's been my view. It does seem like we are trying to milk clock and then focus on getting a look late in the clock.

---

At Cal and most of the time at Georgia his teams have ranked in the 300s in tempo. However, the absolute slowest team in the country last year was Virginia. UCLA played even slower than than Cal. So there are good teams that play slow. One of the fastest playing teams (#7) was Gonzaga. Duke under coach K played fast. Montgomery played fast at Cal. Braun, Cuonzo and now Fox played slow.

I prefer coaches that focus on offensive and defensive efficiency, but there are many ways to do it.

For some "defensive" coaches, they want frenetic activity on defense and then take the first part of the offensive possession to have the team rest and calm down and focus on getting a good shot.

---

I didn't mean to imply anything about the slow pace; one can have a slow pace and good offensive efficiency (tho it often takes great execution to get that). The question I was responding to was whether Fox was against a high-quality shot early in the shot clock. I don't think anyone is against that, but if your pace is often amongst the slowest in the country, one can surmise that you aren't often looking for great looks early in the shot clock.

And I think looking at Fox's pace and offensive efficiency is more instructive than looking at slow-pace high-efficiency masters like Tony Bennett. To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, Mark Fox is no Tony Bennett.

---