Fox got the extra COVID year all coaches received

4,774 Views | 45 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by sluggo
KoreAmBear
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4:01p, 3/18/22
He's signed through 24-25 but no further extensions just yet:

https://www.si.com/college/cal/basketball/knowlton-talks-mark-fox?fbclid=IwAR1pcVG-_jK_MAl1JmnOAAtxoBxclHvB8eRMJiHOlgqwjVrQWPx6NWCtiAk

Knowlton's quotes just sound pathetic. Also he is being disingenuous when he says no fans should think the report about an extension was a long-term extension and that it was merely the COVID extension. If that was automatic for all coaches why would that even have been publicized and specific to Fox? He put it out there through Connor Letourneau to see how a longer extension for Fox would be received by fans. He's just playing it off now. I really don't like how this dude operates.
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socaliganbear
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4:25p, 3/18/22
He sounds pathetic
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socaliganbear
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4:53p, 3/18/22
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sluggo
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5:34p, 3/18/22
Don't really care about an extension, only the buyout. This covid year could be bad news.

Glad Knowlton brought up academics from EIGHT OR NINE YEARS AGO. Certainly a key issue. Why not mention the UCLA losing streak from the 80s? Or Pete Newell leaving at the height of his powers?
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stu
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In reply to KoreAmBear • 5:36p, 3/18/22
If indeed all Cal coaches' contracts were extended a year due to COVID-19 that's one thing. If Knowlton can't find a way to let Fox go anyway that's another. Wake up, dude!
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socaliganbear
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6:04p, 3/18/22
So the original Reporter is calling BS on Jim:

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KoreAmBear
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In reply to socaliganbear • 6:09p, 3/18/22
socaliganbear said:
So the original Reporter is calling BS on Jim:

For a military guy and a former AD at the AFA, why is he so sketch?
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Big C
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In reply to KoreAmBear • 6:24p, 3/18/22
KoreAmBear said:
socaliganbear said:
So the original Reporter is calling BS on Jim:

For a military guy and a former AD at the AFA, why is he so sketch?

CYA is a bxtch... even happens in the military (Imagine the Russian generals trying to explain things to Putin this week!).
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KenBurnski
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6:54p, 3/18/22
I don't *think* he's intentionally sketchy, I think he's just terrible at very crucial parts of his job.
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calfanz
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7:30p, 3/18/22
He keeps talking that we need better recruiting. Does he realize we have no spots open this year?

Our recruiting of the Key '23 Class will be completely hampered by the lack of clarity with coaching.

I really like JK, but he seems to be fumbling this deal
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PtownBear1
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In reply to KenBurnski • 7:42p, 3/18/22
KenBurnski said:
I don't *think* he's intentionally sketchy, I think he's just terrible at very crucial parts of his job.


Agree. He doesn't come off as being smart enough imo to be intentionally sketchy. Just way out of his league and indecisive.
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Bobodeluxe
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8:57p, 3/18/22
If only Mike Williams were still here.
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GMP
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In reply to calfanz • 9:44p, 3/18/22
calfanz said:
He keeps talking that we need better recruiting. Does he realize we have no spots open this year?

Our recruiting of the Key '23 Class will be completely hampered by the lack of clarity with coaching.

I really like JK, but he seems to be fumbling this deal


Curious - what do you like about him?
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ducky23
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10:12p, 3/18/22
What I hate most about knowlton is that he is clearly in this SOLELY for the money. He doesn't give a Crap about cal or what's in Cal's best interest. Every decision he makes is based on what's in his own best interest.

Take the fox hiring. Everyone knows it's a dumb hire. Knowlton himself knows it's a dumb hire. But it's a brilliant hire for his own self interest. You know what you're getting with fox. A very low ceiling but you know where the floor is. And you know he will run a clean program and graduate players and he will win just enough games. Fox is a hire that won't get the AD fired. He's a low risk extremely low reward hire.

What cal clearly needs is new leadership at the top. We shouldn't be complaining about fox. We should be complaining about knowlton. It's knowlton that needs to go.

Steve Gladstone was probably the best AD of my lifetime. He was smart, competent and he loved cal. He actually cared about the university and not about his next paycheck. And as a coach he understood what to look for in hiring other coaches. That's the sort of leadership we need.

Getting knowlton to fire fox isn't going to solve our problems. Knowlton has to go. Hopefully the big time donors can see that.

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stu
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In reply to ducky23 • 10:31p, 3/18/22
I'm sure it would cost a pretty penny to buy out his contract. Probably better to keep him but remove the revenue sports from his authority and hire someone else (who doesn't answer to Knowlton) to manage them.
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LateHit
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11:54p, 3/18/22
It does, sadly, all boil down to Fox and Knowlton wanting the financial cushion for retirement.
Zero interest in Berkeley. Do the minimum to keep the paychecks coming.
But "we" hired them.
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Econ141
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12:06a, 3/19/22
If Christ doesn't see or get how pathetic this is, she needs to go to.

So here we are, all in agreement. We see the writing on the wall that this AD is only going to make Cal Athletics worse. Let's see how much longer it takes to come to this conclusion.
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oski003
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6:24a, 3/19/22
This sounds highly restrictive. Did any other team in the school in the country make it this hard to have success?

'COVID-19 posed greater obstacles for Fox and the Bears than most basketball programs around the country, Knowlton said. Cal had no access to its locker room or its usual weight room for the entirety of the 2020-21 season and restrictions imposed by Berkeley health officials had the team practicing on an outdoor tennis court without a basketball in the months leading up that season.

"He's worked through that and we've come out still standing," Knowlton said. "Was the season what he wanted? No. But he's working to build depth, to recruit the right kids and to really retool after two years against teams that never left their gyms, never left their locker rooms, never saw the kind of challenges that we saw."'
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calfanz
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In reply to GMP • 6:27a, 3/19/22
GMP said:
calfanz said:
He keeps talking that we need better recruiting. Does he realize we have no spots open this year?

Our recruiting of the Key '23 Class will be completely hampered by the lack of clarity with coaching.

I really like JK, but he seems to be fumbling this deal


Curious - what do you like about him?
He seemed genuine, approachable, gregarious and knowledgable.

I'm starting to question my judgement though.
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parentswerebears
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8:34a, 3/19/22
I just read that New Mexico State's team camped out in Phoenix in order to have access to the things they needed to compete. It made them a better team. It's the kind of outside the box thinking you would expect from the #1 public university in the world, but it was from NMSU.
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PtownBear1
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8:39a, 3/19/22
I can't believe they just arbitrarily extended every coaches contract by a year. Such a horrible way to run a business.
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HoopDreams
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In reply to oski003 • 8:57a, 3/19/22
oski003 said:
Cal had no access to its locker room or its usual weight room for the entirety of the 2020-21 season and restrictions imposed by Berkeley health officials had the team practicing on an outdoor tennis court without a basketball in the months leading up that season.


it embarrassing that we had to practice on a outdoor tennis court on a portable basket WITHOUT a basketball

I said at the time they should have at least had a basketball for each player and practiced their handle (footwork, moves, counters, weak hand, etc)

I think that ridiculous restriction could have been overcome by a better solution, and do think cal was impacted that first year more than other teams in a shortened season

However teams missing games and players missing due to Covid was the biggest impact and not sure how cal faired relative to other Pac12 teams

STILL that was 2 seasons ago. This season was supposed to be our year with a veteran team lead by Bradley

AD seems to conveniently skip over that. AD is keeping Fox and just throwing up justifications to justify it, whether they are good ones or not

If we were going to make a change this would be the year to do it given our current roster, incoming recruits, and open slots in 23
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sluggo
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In reply to ducky23 • 8:57a, 3/19/22
ducky23 said:
What I hate most about knowlton is that he is clearly in this SOLELY for the money. He doesn't give a Crap about cal or what's in Cal's best interest. Every decision he makes is based on what's in his own best interest.

Take the fox hiring. Everyone knows it's a dumb hire. Knowlton himself knows it's a dumb hire. But it's a brilliant hire for his own self interest. You know what you're getting with fox. A very low ceiling but you know where the floor is. And you know he will run a clean program and graduate players and he will win just enough games. Fox is a hire that won't get the AD fired. He's a low risk extremely low reward hire.

What cal clearly needs is new leadership at the top. We shouldn't be complaining about fox. We should be complaining about knowlton. It's knowlton that needs to go.

Steve Gladstone was probably the best AD of my lifetime. He was smart, competent and he loved cal. He actually cared about the university and not about his next paycheck. And as a coach he understood what to look for in hiring other coaches. That's the sort of leadership we need.

Getting knowlton to fire fox isn't going to solve our problems. Knowlton has to go. Hopefully the big time donors can see that.

I agree with most of what you said but the floor is very low. I think 12th place is the most likely position next year. So the floor is really no scandal. Cal basketball does have some fans and some who used to be fans and being so bad is a minor headache. It was not a great move to hire Fox for someone who I agree only cares about cashing them checks.

As an alum and fan since the 80s, I do think getting a better coach would be nice, and it could happen sooner than getting a new AD. Knowlton has lifetime support for retaining the football coach who does not win.
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BeachedBear
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In reply to parentswerebears • 9:52a, 3/19/22
parentswerebears said:
I just read that New Mexico State's team camped out in Phoenix in order to have access to the things they needed to compete. It made them a better team. It's the kind of outside the box thinking you would expect from the #1 public university in the world, but it was from NMSU.
Didn't Stanfurd do the same in Santa Cruz that season? I believe Santa Clara, USF and St Mary's did something similar.

My favorite - Players had to practice on a tennis court outside without a ball - THEN WHY DIDN"T YOU SEND A STAFFER WITH A COUPLE OF BALLS AND DRIVE THEM TO A NEARBY SCHOOL PLAYGROUND WITH A HOOP!!!!

So the Covid hit Cal hardest BS - just comes across as weak sauce!
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stu
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In reply to BeachedBear • 10:42a, 3/19/22
BeachedBear said:
So the Covid hit Cal hardest BS - just comes across as weak sauce!
The Stanford women had to practice and play on the road for 10 weeks. But no excuses - they won the NCAA Tournament.
SI story
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89Bear
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In reply to BeachedBear • 11:25a, 3/19/22
BeachedBear said:
parentswerebears said:
I just read that New Mexico State's team camped out in Phoenix in order to have access to the things they needed to compete. It made them a better team. It's the kind of outside the box thinking you would expect from the #1 public university in the world, but it was from NMSU.
Didn't Stanfurd do the same in Santa Cruz that season? I believe Santa Clara, USF and St Mary's did something similar.

My favorite - Players had to practice on a tennis court outside without a ball - THEN WHY DIDN"T YOU SEND A STAFFER WITH A COUPLE OF BALLS AND DRIVE THEM TO A NEARBY SCHOOL PLAYGROUND WITH A HOOP!!!!

So the Covid hit Cal hardest BS - just comes across as weak sauce!
I get that a lot of teams had things better off. However, show some grit and creativity!!! Bad look for Fox and Knowlton!!
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Dgoldnbaer
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1:31p, 3/19/22
I think each, Fox & Knowlton, were spoiled rotten brats growing up. They always justify their reasons for not being successful. Is nothing but EXCUSE after EXCUSE after EXCUSE. SOOOOOOO Sad - since everything permeates from the top, Christ should be gone NOW followed immediately by Knowlton then Fox. He'll, I'd put Wilcox in with them. Just clean house! Our school & it's athletic dept. Would be MUCH better off.
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ducky23
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In reply to sluggo • 1:46p, 3/19/22
sluggo said:
ducky23 said:
What I hate most about knowlton is that he is clearly in this SOLELY for the money. He doesn't give a Crap about cal or what's in Cal's best interest. Every decision he makes is based on what's in his own best interest.

Take the fox hiring. Everyone knows it's a dumb hire. Knowlton himself knows it's a dumb hire. But it's a brilliant hire for his own self interest. You know what you're getting with fox. A very low ceiling but you know where the floor is. And you know he will run a clean program and graduate players and he will win just enough games. Fox is a hire that won't get the AD fired. He's a low risk extremely low reward hire.

What cal clearly needs is new leadership at the top. We shouldn't be complaining about fox. We should be complaining about knowlton. It's knowlton that needs to go.

Steve Gladstone was probably the best AD of my lifetime. He was smart, competent and he loved cal. He actually cared about the university and not about his next paycheck. And as a coach he understood what to look for in hiring other coaches. That's the sort of leadership we need.

Getting knowlton to fire fox isn't going to solve our problems. Knowlton has to go. Hopefully the big time donors can see that.

I agree with most of what you said but the floor is very low. I think 12th place is the most likely position next year. So the floor is really no scandal. Cal basketball does have some fans and some who used to be fans and being so bad is a minor headache. It was not a great move to hire Fox for someone who I agree only cares about cashing them checks.



Your problem is that you're thinking like a normal, reasonable and rational person who measures success in wins and losses. Knowlton made the correct calculation that the people writing his checks care less about wins and more about the bball program simply not embarrassing the university.

Knowing this, knowlton avoided hiring anyone who could possibly result in scandal or embarrassment. For example, no Pasternak (alleged recruiting violations), Kidd (dui, DV, no degree, etc), Musselman (DUI, apparent academic disinterest), etc.

So knowlton hires a middle aged white man known most for being non controversial, having little baggage and running clean, boring programs.

And when he's done with fox he can hire the next boring coach and live fat off of his paychecks indefinitely. As long as there are no scandals or embarrassment, there is no threat to his job.

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WalterSobchak
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In reply to ducky23 • 2:13p, 3/19/22
ducky23 said:





Knowlton made the correct calculation that the people writing his checks care less about wins and more about the bball program simply not embarrassing the university.
I agree with this, but don't give Knowlton the benefit of the doubt that he figured it out independently. I think this was clearly communicated to him as a condition of his employment when he was hired.
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stu
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4:31p, 3/19/22
This situation reminds me of the old aphorism:
A level people hire level A people, B level people hire C level people.
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Big C
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In reply to Dgoldnbaer • 4:37p, 3/19/22
Dgoldnbaer said:
I think each, Fox & Knowlton, were spoiled rotten brats growing up. They always justify their reasons for not being successful. Is nothing but EXCUSE after EXCUSE after EXCUSE. SOOOOOOO Sad - since everything permeates from the top, Christ should be gone NOW followed immediately by Knowlton then Fox. He'll, I'd put Wilcox in with them. Just clean house! Our school & it's athletic dept. Would be MUCH better off.

So, we have the most athletics-friendly Chancellor in at least half a century, but you would replace her because she hired/extended a pedestrian, think-inside-the-box AD who hired a mediocre-on-a-good-day basketball coach? And to heck with whatever she might have done in the other sectors of her job, which might be even more important than sports?

If so, I'm not so sure I agree.
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stu
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In reply to Big C • 4:43p, 3/19/22
Well said!
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PtownBear1
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In reply to Big C • 5:37p, 3/19/22
Big C said:
Dgoldnbaer said:
I think each, Fox & Knowlton, were spoiled rotten brats growing up. They always justify their reasons for not being successful. Is nothing but EXCUSE after EXCUSE after EXCUSE. SOOOOOOO Sad - since everything permeates from the top, Christ should be gone NOW followed immediately by Knowlton then Fox. He'll, I'd put Wilcox in with them. Just clean house! Our school & it's athletic dept. Would be MUCH better off.

So, we have the most athletics-friendly Chancellor in at least half a century, but you would replace her because she hired/extended a pedestrian, think-inside-the-box AD who hired a mediocre-on-a-good-day basketball coach? And to heck with whatever she might have done in the other sectors of her job, which might be even more important than sports?

If so, I'm not so sure I agree.


People keep saying we have the most athletics friendly chancellor, but in the 22 years I've been a Cal fan, this is by far the worst stretch of football and basketball combined I've experienced. So not sure why we even need an athletics friendly chancellor. I rather have a chancellor that doesn't give a crap about athletics but hires competent staff to oversee athletics.
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HoopDreams
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In reply to PtownBear1 • 6:04p, 3/19/22
I think our Chancellor does a few things regarding athletics

1. Sets the overall philosophy: for example we want to support Title IX and a specific "prong"

2. Hires the AD

3. Supports the dept with a multitude of big decisions… e.g. taking a major portion of the stadium debt off the athletic depts back

4. Approves a number of recommendations proposed by the AD or others

5. Sets the overall tone for athletics place in the university

I think she is doing her job well and does support the dept better than any in her role for the last 25 years plus

One duty she probably does not have is commanding the AD which coaches to hire or fire

The stadium debt was a major tangible fact supporting that


PtownBear1 said:
Big C said:
Dgoldnbaer said:
I think each, Fox & Knowlton, were spoiled rotten brats growing up. They always justify their reasons for not being successful. Is nothing but EXCUSE after EXCUSE after EXCUSE. SOOOOOOO Sad - since everything permeates from the top, Christ should be gone NOW followed immediately by Knowlton then Fox. He'll, I'd put Wilcox in with them. Just clean house! Our school & it's athletic dept. Would be MUCH better off.

So, we have the most athletics-friendly Chancellor in at least half a century, but you would replace her because she hired/extended a pedestrian, think-inside-the-box AD who hired a mediocre-on-a-good-day basketball coach? And to heck with whatever she might have done in the other sectors of her job, which might be even more important than sports?

If so, I'm not so sure I agree.


People keep saying we have the most athletics friendly chancellor, but in the 22 years I've been a Cal fan, this is by far the worst stretch of football and basketball combined I've experienced. So not sure why we even need an athletics friendly chancellor. I rather have a chancellor that doesn't give a crap about athletics but hires competent staff to oversee athletics.
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socaliganbear
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7:27p, 3/19/22
At some point, we actually have to be good at relevant sports or we've failed. I know we're forcing ourselves to build optimism for football, but our chances of a good season there are also very low. The AD is not producing results, and the immediate future of the program we have is bleak.
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